Growth: missing inches reach & bad mass

[Heroman]

Hiyas,
In it's display, Growth is missing the # inches gained. It also is not calculating mass properly; My base form has 800kg and 3 levels growth bring it to 65kg...

[Simon]

The weight bit is a noted bug....I'll have that fixed shortly.

I'm assuming you're talking about the reach when you say that it's not displaying the "inches" gained....that is per the WG, which makes no note of them in the display for Growth.

[Heroman]

Sorry, not familiar with 'WG', what is that?

In the Growth Chart (p118) it shows the 'hexes of reach' and also in the 'Growth Table' (p119). Hexes of Reach does nto show up in the designer nor the preview.
It also shows up in the Growth Cost.

[RPMiller]

Originally posted by Heroman
Sorry, not familiar with 'WG', what is that?

In the Growth Chart (p118) it shows the 'hexes of reach' and also in the 'Growth Table' (p119). Hexes of Reach does nto show up in the designer nor the preview.
It also shows up in the Growth Cost. It's the Writer's Guidelines.

[Simon]

As Durnin stated, the WG is the Writers' Guidelines. They define the format for (pretty much) all aspects of the Hero System.

V2 will rely very heavily on the WG for its formatting....one of the things I'll be working on in developing v2 is to go through each ability, modifier, skill, etc in the system and make sure that its output is as close to the WG as possible. The only times there will be a deviation from this is when that deviation is necessary due to enhancements in HD (like having primary and secondary totals).

[RPMiller]

Originally posted by dsimon
V2 will rely very heavily on the WG for its formatting....one of the things I'll be working on in developing v2 is to go through each ability, modifier, skill, etc in the system and make sure that its output is as close to the WG as possible. The only times there will be a deviation from this is when that deviation is necessary due to enhancements in HD (like having primary and secondary totals). YES!!YES!!YES!!YES!!YES!!YES!!YES!!YES!!YES!!YES!! YES!!YES!!

Ok. I'm done. :D I'm looking forward to this in a big way Dan. I have to continually fight the urge to ask for formatting in Version 1, but I know that letting you work on the next version will get it done sooner. ;)

Thank you Dan!!

[Heroman]

Um...hate to be picky, but I purchased HD because it "implement and support the Hero System Fifth Edition rules". To me, since the 5th shows the Hexes Of Reach in 2 tables and in the details of the Growth Cost, this component is part of Growth, regardless of the Writer's Guidelines and if anything I would consider the WG to be in error since it fails to address a fundamental capability of Growth.

I don't read the Writer's Guidelines and did not get the HD for making Writer's Guidelines submissions, I got it to make characters based on the 5th hardback without needing to consult the 5th for discrepencies between it and the WG.

I mean really, Inches Of Reach is not an optional rule, a side bar 'Other Growth Traits', or anthing like that. It is part of the power, and part which I know I always expect on a character sheet since it has direct combat important, unlike Height and Weight (which are provided). In all honesty, a component of a power which appears in 2 charts and the power cost description but does not appear in the WG seems to indicate a problem with what the WG is displaying. Not displaying it in HD to me is an inconsistency with the core 5th edition rules. That's like not showing the -DCV for growth.

[tiger]

I hate to say it but I have to agree, in part, with Heroman.

There is a difference between writing up a character using WG and using it for play. This was one thing I liked about HD, it didn't force you to use one type of templete. I prefer the older style sheets to the WG sheets, just personal preference.

I hope v2 will be as flexible and not force the WG's style on a user.

[Simon]

Umm...guys? this isn't a rules issue. It's simply formatting. Growth has a huge amount of stuff already listed with it. It just isn't practical to include the reach in there as well. The app isn't saying that you don't get it, it's just not listing it in the output. That is per the WG.

And yes, the WG are a part of the Hero System. Abilities need to be formatted for output. Particularly the "extras" on abilities like Growth, DI, Shrinking, etc. These are summarized in the book, but must be formatted for output in the application. By "formatted" I'm referring to what information is include and how it is presented (in what order, with what phrasing, etc.). When decisions need to be made about the formatting of a particular game element, I turn to the WG to define it.

Every element of HD follows the same principle. Skills are displayed as "[Skill Name] [Roll]" (e.g. "Acrobatics 13-"). That is a formatting decision. It could just as easily have been "Acrobatics, 13-" or "Acrobatics/13-" or any number of other formats. Why did it end up the way it is? Because that's how the WG defines it.

If you're upset about the formatting used for Growth, I'm sorry, but that's something that you'll need to take up with Steve. V2 will not be changing this. About the only thing that I would be willing to do would be to include an export tag which gives you the reach....but that won't be until v2 is out (no new features until then).

[Talon]

Strong second for adding a <REACH> tag in v2. There are plenty of things not part of the WG but which make character sheets more usable.

In particular, note that Hero products like Terran Empire are moving toward a "summary" prior to the points writeup, a nod that writeups are not the optimal way to present information. Obviously, HD can't magically produce summaries, but anything that lets export template writers move in that direction is a Good Thing.

[tiger]

I merely meant that by you saying you were formatting more towards WG I was merely wondering if the others were available.

They are I'm a happy camper :)

Now it will be ready tomorrow right:)

[Heroman]

I understand your position, though I strongly disagree on this particual case, since it is a integral part of the power with significant impact on combat. It is not the fluffy format of growth; it is the proper presentation of the benefits of growth. Comparatively, height and weight in the display are fluff.
This is not a case of "Acrobatics 13-" vs "Acrobatics, 13-" or "Acrobatics/13-". This is like saying "Acrobatics" and leaving it up to the player to go hunt in the book for the roll.

I understand your reliance on the WG for output format (especially since it will have hordes of formatting and math in future books), but for me this is an ommision of an important power which growth provides. I will check with Steve to better understand why this ommision occurs.