The Ultimate Archetype book you most want to see

[Hermit]

With any luck, this will be the first poll ;) So I thought I'd try to make it a useful one.

Since the Ultimate Martial Artist book is already out, what other Ultimate Archetype kind of book would you like to see for HERO 5th? and if you can, post why, and what you hope to see in such.

[misterdeath]

Hmmm, I guess the 12 step failed then. :p

Mystic.

D

[Hermit]

Originally posted by misterdeath
Hmmm, I guess the 12 step failed then. :p

Mystic.

D
The addiction was cheaper than the cure, so I kept it ;)

Besides, this uhm.. *Rationalizes* MIGHT be useful...

So, what are you hoping to see in Mystic? Big Tree guys that are an army of one? :D

I have picked Patriot... I think purely symbolic heroes could be cool to expand on. Especially given Patriot could also be 'Avatar', and one could be a symbol of Justice or other abstract concept just as easily as some nation.

[JmOz]

Went with Weapon Master, as it has components of the Gadgeteer and the MA that could be cool

[misterdeath]

Patriot was my second choice. Especially if you include Avatar in Patriot.

I picked Mystic because, honestly, I always end up having supernatural overtones to my campaigns. Everyone is a technological mutant, and they're still trying to hunt down vampires.

Even I get tired of recycling ideas and stealing stuff. Besides, I'd like a nice paper version of Ultimate Mystic and (crosses fingers) since at one point Ultimate Supermage was on the update list, it might be easy to get it out fast.

D

[MisterVimes]

Powered Armor.... because there's a little Iron Man in us all :D

Followed closely by Ultimate Patriot/Avatar

[Ghost Archer]

Sorry, I am a gadget freak, always have been, always will be. Although I do wonder what exactly new and interesting one might put in an Ultimate Brick book.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Ghost Archer
Sorry, I am a gadget freak, always have been, always will be. Although I do wonder what exactly new and interesting one might put in an Ultimate Brick book.

New ways to hit people REALLY HARD!

Seriously, I think one could collect really good 'Brick Tricks' as powers, like: Shockwaves, Concussive Slaps, etc. As well as Bricks in different Genres like: The Mystical Brick and the Mentalist Brick...

Okay, I'm stretching here, but I imagine with all the vreativity we have assembled here we could manage something.:)

[Steve Long]

FYI, I just got the first draft of the manuscript for The Ultimate Brick from David Rakonitz last Friday. I haven't looked at it yet, and probably won't be able to. It's not on the schedule, and likely won't be for a while. But it is in hand. ;)

The "Our Products" page has a list of the other Ultimate books we have in mind. Not that we couldn't add to the list, necessarily, but it might help guide the discussion. There won't be an "Ultimate Powered Armor," for example, because we'll be doing The Ultimate Armor that covers all types of armor, from thick furs right on up to Iron Man and pals. ;)

[Monolith]

I went with Brick just so that I could see all those wonderful bonuses they get due to Strength only costing 1 point. :)

[Hermit]

You guys really are amazing, thanks for the heads up :)

If the Ultimate Brick book is as good as some of the posts under the same title on the old boards, it will be well worth getting. :)

[Ben Seeman]

I voted for Speedsters. But that's just cuz speedsters are bad @$$.

[cubist]

I voted Ultimate Patriot because I liked what Aaron did in the Champions book, not just making the patriot be all about america, it seemed to encompass other countries as well as abstract concepts. Maybe a run down of various patriot characters from comics throughout the years and maybe even some sort of scenario that would create a "patriots from around the world" type of team-up to face some super threat that endangers all their countries.

[Trebuchet]

Testing...1...2...3.. Is this thing on? Testing...

Seriously, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Powered Armor heroes, although I'd sure like to see a book on mentalists too.

[Edsel]

Powered Armor has always been my favorite too. I started out reading Iron Man back in the late 60s / early 70s. Even in anime powered armor (Knight Sabers) has always been my favorite.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Steve Long
FYI, I just got the first draft of the manuscript for The Ultimate Brick from David Rakonitz last Friday. I haven't looked at it yet, and probably won't be able to. It's not on the schedule, and likely won't be for a while. But it is in hand. ;)

The "Our Products" page has a list of the other Ultimate books we have in mind. Not that we couldn't add to the list, necessarily, but it might help guide the discussion. There won't be an "Ultimate Powered Armor," for example, because we'll be doing The Ultimate Armor that covers all types of armor, from thick furs right on up to Iron Man and pals. ;)

That combined with the UV and man need never fight evil in his underwear again!

[Jeff T.]

Went with Mystic. It will help with Fantasy Hero, and spells can be difficult to do.

[Michael Hopcroft]

I voted for Speedster. This is one of my favorite types of characters, but a difficult one to play properly and take full advantage of without being abusive.

I wonder how many different powerrs and abilities you could define as a function of being really, really fast?

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Michael Hopcroft
I wonder how many different powerrs and abilities you could define as a function of being really, really fast?

My speedster had tons of premade stuff for his vpp. Came out to over 1000 points if he had them all at once. AE Healing must make paramedics roll, cosmetic transformation (assemble/sort items), vibration powers, vaccuum powers, autofires up the yooyoo, air manipulation, friction/heat powers, etc, etc. It can really get wild.

You can add in defenses like flash def or power def that is "staged" so that it simulates you recovering from those effects faster.

That character was pretty damn tough...

[Mightybec]

I'd like to se the Ultimate Brick book. Unfortunatly, most of my bricks are just plain.

Mightybec

[mattingly]

Well, at least I'm not the only guy to vote for Metamorph. Why stick with just one shtick when you can transform your own body into any of them?

[Super Squirrel]

I voted for Gadgeteer. Basically, almost all of the archetypes are fairy simple in their basic design. Gadgeteers rely on VPP's and honestly, I would like to see a ton of examples of these.

[Balok]

I voted for gadgeteer. Mystic would be a good choice, but as I have a copy of the first version, it dropped lower on the list...

[allen]

I would've liked to have voted for The Ultimate Base. To be honest, I've never really had a problem making up a character I wanted; Bases on the other hand I find a bit ambiguous and requiring some creative rules application.

Additionally, on a semi-serious note, I would also like to vote for The Ultimate Enhanced Senses (maybe, The Ultimate Enhanced Sensor). I know that whenever I turn to pg. 105 of FREd, it's going to be a bad day. I start reading about Sense Groups and lack of Sense Groups and... excuse the bad joke... it all becomes Nonsense Groups. I just want a big long list of every possible Detect I could ever possibly dream of creating.

What I did vote for is The Ultimate Patriot... mainly I'd like to see the Archetype justified. I guess I'm curious why Cap't America isn't a martial artist with a patriotic schtick; or why Jenny Sparks isn't an energy projector with a zeitgeist gimmick. Or maybe they are, and I misunderstand the archetype. Anyway, I'm very curious to see what's in store for this book.

[Enforcer84]

Voted brick, 'cause I is one.:D

[Hermit]

Originally posted by mattingly
Well, at least I'm not the only guy to vote for Metamorph. Why stick with just one shtick when you can transform your own body into any of them?

Well, Metamorphs would have been my second choice. I enjoy size changers, stretchers, and the occasional shape shifter. A book chock full of ideas on how to use multiforms and other powers creatively could be really excellent. We are talking lots of variety.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Hermit
Well, Metamorphs would have been my second choice. I enjoy size changers, stretchers, and the occasional shape shifter. A book chock full of ideas on how to use multiforms and other powers creatively could be really excellent. We are talking lots of variety.

Metamorphs would be great, but I'd be more interested to see (as you mentioned) ideas for Multiform than say Growth, Shrinking and Stretching.

* Armored characters whose armor changes (mecha style)
* Hulk and Captain Marvel types that have a weak form
* The perfect way to do Shapeshifters (ala Chameleon Boy and Changeling/Beast Boy)

[Koshka]

I went with Patriot, because I've run into too many people who play patriots as foaming-at-the-mouth maniacs with a flag motif to their costume. I figure that one needs the help :) . Second place was a tie between Gadgeteer and Brick.

[Supreme]

It seems like Powered Armor is the fan favorite. I find that kind of interesting. PAC's are the fan favorite in the comics these days too. Bricks, Martial Artists, and Speedsters have all had their turns. I guess it's the PAC's turn now. I wonder if energy projectors have ever had their turn? I doubt it because it does seem to me that EPs are harder to make. Heck, most PACs are just EPs on budget.

[winterhawk]

I voted for EP, just because I feel I've 'done it all' as far as that archetype and would like to see some fresh ideas on it.

[Glen Sprigg]

I went with Speedster, because I like Speedsters. Simple, straightforward reason. Actually, Speedsters have such a wide variety of possibilities, I know you could get a whole book on them.

Glen

[Supreme]

How about an archetype we haven't seen yet: the mass-changer. You all know who I'm talking about: Vision, Giant-Man, Atom, Collosal Boy, etc. The character whose abilities center around changing volume, mass, and/or density. Heck, if you put "Patriot" down as a archetype... Sorry if that rubs anyone the wrong way, but to me "Patriot" is the least-deserving of "archetype" status. They account for about five characters in comics (Captain America, the Shield, the Star-Spangled Kid, USAgent, and one or two others to obscure to remember), and the only thing they have in common is a costume design.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Supreme
How about an archetype we haven't seen yet: the mass-changer. You all know who I'm talking about: Vision, Giant-Man, Atom, Collosal Boy, etc. The character whose abilities center around changing volume, mass, and/or density.

I think that's included in Metamorph... people who change the nature of their body.

[Glen Sprigg]

Originally posted by Supreme
How about an archetype we haven't seen yet: the mass-changer. You all know who I'm talking about: Vision, Giant-Man, Atom, Collosal Boy, etc. The character whose abilities center around changing volume, mass, and/or density. Heck, if you put "Patriot" down as a archetype... Sorry if that rubs anyone the wrong way, but to me "Patriot" is the least-deserving of "archetype" status. They account for about five characters in comics (Captain America, the Shield, the Star-Spangled Kid, USAgent, and one or two others to obscure to remember), and the only thing they have in common is a costume design.

You're lowballing the number a bit, aren't you? 'Patriot' doesn't necessarily mean 'American,' you know.
However, here are some of the American patriotic heroes frmo Marvel & DC (and, in one case, Impact)

Captain America, The Shield, USAgent, Star-Spangled Kid, Miss America (Marvel)

Here are some patriots from the All-Star Squadron:
Miss America, Commander Steel, Mr. America, Americommando, Liberty Belle, Stripsey, Uncle Sam

And how about some patriots from elsewhere in the world?
Vindicator/Guardian (Alpha Flight), Red Guardian (Russia), Union Jack (Invaders), Captain Britain (Excalibur)

And of course, from our own source material, Champions products (1st to 5th edition)
Golden Avenger, Invictus (yeah, he's a villain, but a patriotic one), Aryan (Allies), American Eagle, Black Mask, Captain Australia, Madame Guillotine, Clansman, Borealis (he's a hero, a hero I say!), Gladiator (European Enemies)

I could go on, but the point is that patriots are a wide-ranging group of characters; the thing that binds them is not a costume, but a belief in their nation, or perhaps an ideal. Even the Harbinger of Justice could be considered a 'patriot' devoted to the concept of justice.

All that having been said, however, I still want an Ultimate Speedster book.

Glen

[Supreme]

Originally posted by Glen Sprigg
You're lowballing the number a bit, aren't you? 'Patriot' doesn't necessarily mean 'American,' you know.
However, here are some of the American patriotic heroes frmo Marvel & DC (and, in one case, Impact)

Captain America, The Shield, USAgent, Star-Spangled Kid, Miss America (Marvel)

Here are some patriots from the All-Star Squadron:
Miss America, Commander Steel, Mr. America, Americommando, Liberty Belle, Stripsey, Uncle Sam

And how about some patriots from elsewhere in the world?
Vindicator/Guardian (Alpha Flight), Red Guardian (Russia), Union Jack (Invaders), Captain Britain (Excalibur)

And of course, from our own source material, Champions products (1st to 5th edition)
Golden Avenger, Invictus (yeah, he's a villain, but a patriotic one), Aryan (Allies), American Eagle, Black Mask, Captain Australia, Madame Guillotine, Clansman, Borealis (he's a hero, a hero I say!), Gladiator (European Enemies)

I could go on, but the point is that patriots are a wide-ranging group of characters; the thing that binds them is not a costume, but a belief in their nation, or perhaps an ideal. Even the Harbinger of Justice could be considered a 'patriot' devoted to the concept of justice.

All that having been said, however, I still want an Ultimate Speedster book.

Glen

I bow to your superior knowledge of comics. You're right I was low-balling it (though I think it's a stretch to call some characters like Liberty Belle "patriots"). You also have a point about common ideologies. The thing about all of those characters, though, is that they are not linked by powers. All the other archetypes are based upon either powers or special effects. Subsequently, the archetype books are suggestions and ideas on how to build such characters; what skills, powers, etc. to give them and various power-tricks. Since the "Patriot" is based upon character background, I don't see what you could fill a whole archetype book with.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Supreme
though I think it's a stretch to call some characters like Liberty Belle "patriots"

Wellllll, she did get her powers from the piece of the Liberty Bell she kept in her belt... That's pretty Patriotic

[Supreme]

Originally posted by MisterVimes
Wellllll, she did get her powers from the piece of the Liberty Bell she kept in her belt... That's pretty Patriotic

We must be thinking of different Liberty Belles. The one I was thinking of was a non-powered gymnast from DC's Golden Age. But back to the subject at hand: I still think that "Patriot" should not be considered a character archetype in the same way that bricks, martial artists, EPs, etc. are. Perhaps we should recognize different types of "archetypes". There are Power Archetypes, which are archetypes based upon abilities and the basis thereof (bricks, PACs, mentalists, etc.). Then there are background archetypes for people like Patriots (Captain America, Shield), Vigilantees (Punisher, Wolverine), Mainstreamers (Superman, the Flash), ex-Villains (Steeljack, Black Adam), and so on.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Supreme
We must be thinking of different Liberty Belles. The one I was thinking of was a non-powered gymnast from DC's Golden Age.

It's probably the same one. Her origin was that her sidekick would strike the Liberty Bell and her Piece would resonate and she would get an adrenaline rush... Lame, but it was 1940... She was an All-Star Squadron Member and married Johnny Quick... their daughter is Jesse Quick... and I have way too much time on my hands...

[Crimson_Tiger]

I don't seem to be alone on this one. I went for the powered armor like most everyone else as well.




John

[buzz]

I voted for Mentalist, fwiw. Mystic would have been my second choice.

Frankly, I think the upcoming The UNTIL Superpowers Database could probably suffice for most of these archetypes. I mean, martial arts and magic are enormous subjects deserving of their own books. But bricks? Speedsters? Patriots? (Yeah, I'm with Supreme on that one.) These types merit an extensive DH article or e-book at best. I can't see even the prolific Steve Long writing 192 pages about *just* bricks.

But I've been wrong before...

I'd honestly love to see The Ultimate Gamemaster, myself.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Supreme
But back to the subject at hand: I still think that "Patriot" should not be considered a character archetype in the same way that bricks, martial artists, EPs, etc. are. Perhaps we should recognize different types of "archetypes". There are Power Archetypes, which are archetypes based upon abilities and the basis thereof (bricks, PACs, mentalists, etc.). Then there are background archetypes for people like Patriots (Captain America, Shield), Vigilantees (Punisher, Wolverine), Mainstreamers (Superman, the Flash), ex-Villains (Steeljack, Black Adam), and so on.

I split the official 11 archetypes into 'Means' and 'Ends". Some archetypes are more concerned with the Means to the Ends, others with the Ends period. For example, some will claim a brick is a brick, even if he gets his strength from Power Armor. Power Armor is a means to the end in that case.

So the Means archetypes are:
Gadgeteer
Mystic
Patriot
Powered Armor
and Weapon Master

The Ends archetypes are:
Brick
Energy Projector
Martial Artist
Mentalist
Metamorph
Speedster

[Dynamo]

Looks like we Powered Armor freaks have spoken. I'm really looking forward to Ultimate Armor, though I have to admit that all the titles on the Ultimate Series (http://www.herogames.com/Products/ultimate.htm) page look pretty tempting.

Speaking of Ultimate books, was any more work ever done on the Ultimate Brick that was being developed on the old boards? I've got a text file that I created from the 25 Feb 2002 version, but I don't know what happened after that.

[Grymlynn]

Because I think that's the toughest one to get your head around, as far as clarity of concept. If you're a mentalist, you have a good idea of what you can do, and what powers to pick. However, when you're dealing with magic, keeping your character from turning into an ambivalent wonder is hard (at least for me...). I would, therefor, like to see an 'official' take on the subject. On the other hand, a book in the hand is worth two on the press! C'mon Steve, cough up that Brick book! :mad: :p

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Dynamo
Speaking of Ultimate books, was any more work ever done on the Ultimate Brick that was being developed on the old boards? I've got a text file that I created from the 25 Feb 2002 version, but I don't know what happened after that.
The Ultimate Brick has been turned into Steve. He just does not have time to look at it yet, but the manuscript is done and in Steve's hands.

[Supreme]

Originally posted by Hermit
So the Means archetypes are:
Gadgeteer
Mystic
Patriot
Powered Armor
and Weapon Master

The Ends archetypes are:
Brick
Energy Projector
Martial Artist
Mentalist
Metamorph
Speedster

Interesting... though I still don't think Patriot fits in the Means list. All the others on that list are distinguishable by special effects, but a Patriot is still only distinguishable by attitude and background.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Supreme
Interesting... though I still don't think Patriot fits in the Means list. All the others on that list are distinguishable by special effects, but a Patriot is still only distinguishable by attitude and background.

I think often, Patriot(Avatar) concepts are a mean to an end in explaining certain abilities. For example, in one book, they mention a flash attack to hearing linked to a punch; the "Liberty Bell" kind of thing. A Justice Avatar might have a limited form of Telepathy to determine guilt, rather than simply being a mentalist.

[Supreme]

Originally posted by Hermit
I think often, Patriot(Avatar) concepts are a mean to an end in explaining certain abilities. For example, in one book, they mention a flash attack to hearing linked to a punch; the "Liberty Bell" kind of thing. A Justice Avatar might have a limited form of Telepathy to determine guilt, rather than simply being a mentalist.

Or how Captain America's shield is never damaged. Okay, I can start to see it. I guess Patriots do tend to have certain powers, like strength and resilience, and not have other powers like invisibility or shape-changing. I concede the Point Supreme.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Hermit
I think often, Patriot(Avatar) concepts are a mean to an end in explaining certain abilities. For example, in one book, they mention a flash attack to hearing linked to a punch; the "Liberty Bell" kind of thing. A Justice Avatar might have a limited form of Telepathy to determine guilt, rather than simply being a mentalist.

Exactly, this brings in the David (Unbreakable) Dunn character, who Mr. Glass describes as a "Protector". I think this is the perfect example for the avatar/Patriot type.

The Patriot/Avatar usually seem to be 'perfected' visions of humanity.

[Supreme]

Originally posted by MisterVimes
The Patriot/Avatar usually seem to be 'perfected' visions of humanity.

I usually call those characters "Archons".

[mattingly]

The Ultimate Brick has been turned into Steve.

Corollary: Steve has been turned into The Ultimate Brick.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by mattingly
Corollary: Steve has been turned into The Ultimate Brick.

He always struck me as more of the Martial Artist and gunman type... :)

[Grymlynn]

Speedster, definitely. Or duplicator, doing more than one thing at a time...

[ChaosDrgn]

Pesonally I'd like to see the Ultimate Speedster soon. I've read flash on and off for years and just the idea appeals to me for some reason.

Next would have to be Ultimate Patriot, exp after reading Liberty (webcomic) and Cap. America for years.

Of course an intreasting one would be to see the Golden Age and Silver Age done as Ultimate books. Silly overall I know, still it'd be fun to see :D

[Agent X]

Originally posted by misterdeath
Hmmm, I guess the 12 step failed then. :p

Mystic.

D

Did George Clinton or George Carlin say that?

"We got the funk, how 'bout that FUNK! Huh!:)

[Agent X]

I like the idea of a gadgeteer book. My other vote would be mystic but I'm beginning to think DOJ and I are going in different directions on how to do magic superheroes - I love Ditko Marvel magic for supers.

[Cool_Manchu]

I'd like to see an intergalactic source book. Something that details alien races and civilizations, Galactus level planet eaters and Celestial type beings. Maybe something on spaceships or cosmic powers.

Something loosely based upon Jim Starlin's works with healthy dashes of Jack Kirby creations....ya know what I'm talkin' 'bout?

:)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Cool_Manchu
I'd like to see an intergalactic source book. Something that details alien races and civilizations, Galactus level planet eaters and Celestial type beings. Maybe something on spaceships or cosmic powers.
I thought Dr. Destroyer was a Galactus-level planet eater? :)

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Monolith
The Ultimate Brick has been turned into Steve. He just does not have time to look at it yet, but the manuscript is done and in Steve's hands.

Yup, Steve kind of indicated that he had someone working on it, that was why I stoped updating the thread, now the manuscript seems to be done.

[BNakagawa]

none of the above:

I want to see the Ultimate Villain book.

[aylwin13]

I had to go with the powered armor. I've been an Iron Man fan for a couple of decades now, and my favorite Champs character, Paladin, is an armor-guy. I would, however, like to see books for speedsters and mentalists. I need ideas for all of those cool feats that Flash and the others can do. And as far as mentalists go, how can you make a large variety of different (and interesting) powers from the fairly small list of base mental powers? I'd like to know these things!

[Ranxerox]

I don't have any philosophical reason for choosing Ultimate Metamorph. I just have had an evolving metamorph named Elan Vital bouncing around in my head for the last 3 monthes, and I'm looking for ways to make him/her/it even cooler.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Ranxerox
I don't have any philosophical reason for choosing Ultimate Metamorph. I just have had an evolving metamorph named Elan Vital bouncing around in my head for the last 3 monthes, and I'm looking for ways to make him/her/it even cooler.

When you say Evolving Metamorph, do you mean that the character is in the evolution stages (hench bouncing around your head) or his metamorphic powers are to Evolve/Devolve?

Heh... That's a question you could only see on this message board

[Hermit]

Well, while not limited to just powered armor, it's nice to see Armor lovers will get their wish :) It is clearly in demand.

Not many takers on Patriot though, darn it.

[Mutant for Hire]

I sat down one time and tried to come up with a categorization scheme for heroes in terms of archetypes.

First there is the symbolism archetype, which often affects the coloration of the heroes powers, and most certainly codename and costume. Some of these include:
Animal (e.g. Spiderman, Wolverine)
Idea/Action (e.g. Punisher)
Mythological (e.g. Thor)
Patriot (e.g. Captain America)
Power (e.g. Storm, Cannonball)

Then of course there is the power origin type, which everyone can more or less guess (though heroes can often fall into multiple categories here):

Altered Human
- subcategories biological, cyborg, magical
Mutant Human
Magician
Non-Human
- demon, alien, android
Equipment
- magical gear, gadgets, powered armor
Trained

And then finally there is the type of powers that they get:
Brick
Energy Projector
Martial Artist
Mentalist
etc.

I find that this more or less does a good job of covering most of the base aspects of a superhero. Other categories can include peronality archetypes and team role archetypes, as mentioned in the Champions book.

[JSenecal]

My vote is for Ultimate Speedster. Out of all the Comic book archtypes, that's the one I have the hardest time doing and getting it to feel right.

[Ranxerox]

Originally posted by MisterVimes
When you say Evolving Metamorph, do you mean that the character is in the evolution stages (hench bouncing around your head) or his metamorphic powers are to Evolve/Devolve?

Heh... That's a question you could only see on this message board

Hehehe. Your question took me a little off guard. I was already to answer one way but then I realized the answer is both. Elan Vital abilities will change in responce to the circumstances and in responce to the choices he/she/it makes so in that sense the character will be able to "evolve". However, since I'm in no sure about all the details of the process, the character is still evolving in my head also.

[zakueins]

Voted for the Ultimate PA. Only problem I can see with that is that you could consolidate the Ultimate Powered Armor and the Ultimate Gadgeteer into a single Ultimate Tech book, which would do the same thing.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Ranxerox
Hehehe. Your question took me a little off guard. I was already to answer one way but then I realized the answer is both. Elan Vital abilities will change in responce to the circumstances and in responce to the choices he/she/it makes so in that sense the character will be able to "evolve". However, since I'm in no sure about all the details of the process, the character is still evolving in my head also.

Thanks for that moment of Zen...:cool:

[steriaca]

Went with the Ultimate Mystic, cause my fave. anime charaters, Sailor Moon and the Sailor Senshi, fall into this catagory.

[zakueins]

The Salior Senshi, IMHO, would fall more under the category of "Ulitmate Energy Projector" more than "Ultimate Mystic"-while their powers are mystical, they tend to use them in a more direct-fire, combat kind of way.


Originally posted by steriaca
Went with the Ultimate Mystic, cause my fave. anime charaters, Sailor Moon and the Sailor Senshi, fall into this catagory.

[Chaosliege]

Originally posted by Hermit
Well, while not limited to just powered armor, it's nice to see Armor lovers will get their wish :) It is clearly in demand.

Not many takers on Patriot though, darn it.

Well, I voted before I read the thread(not that I read the whole thing) and I voted Power Armor. Now that I know it's already going to be done, I'd like to see Ultimate Speedster

[TheQuestionMan]

Bump

[Bazza]

I just couldn't decide which archetype to vote for. There is about 3 that wouldn't be that interested in.


Originally posted by buzz
I'd honestly love to see The Ultimate Gamemaster, myself. What about The Ultimate...Steve Long? :D

[Brandi]

Originally posted by Bazza
What about The Ultimate...Steve Long? :D

I'm sure CLOWN'd be happy to do it-- they already did GURPS Steve Jackson...

[BobGreenwade]

Personally, I went with Gadgeteer. HERO Games really needs to go with something as multi-genre as possible at this stage, and the Focus rules really need to be expanded.

I'd follow it closely with Weapon Master and Mentalist, though.

[Kevin Scrivner]

A love guys that stretch like Plastic Man, shift their mass around like the Silver Age Atom, shapeshift like Chameleon or Mystique, shrink or grow like Henry Pym and relations. We've seen hero teams that are principally made up of one of the other character types -- bricks or martial artists. But a team made up of metamorphs could really be fun, flexible, and wierd all at the same time.

[James Gillen]

I picked Metamorph.
Shapeshifting- the power with 1001 uses. :D

JG

[pinecone]

My favorite chars...Speedsters, Shapeshifters and Martial bricks....then MA's so speedster got the vote......

[BobGreenwade]

Something to keep in mind with Ultimate books is that each will cover not only a particular character type, but (generally) also expand a particular section of the HERO System rules, to wit:

The Ultimate Martial Artist - Martial Arts
The Ultimate Vehicle - Vehicles
The Ultimate Mentalist - Mental Powers

And presumably...

The Ultimate Brick - STR
The Ultimate Speedster - Movement Powers
The Ultimate Metamorph - Shape Shift and similar Powers
The Ultimate Gadgeteer - Focus
The Ultimate Base - Bases
The Ultimate Automaton - Automata and Computers
The Ultimate Mystic - Not sure; perhaps the Power Skill and/or Summon

Personally I'd like to eventually write (or at least see) The Ultimate Sidekick, to expand on the rules for Followers. This would be a great way to handle not only "junior sidekicks" in the Golden and Silver Age traditions, but everyday thugs and henchmen, armies of zombies and robots, the knight's trusty steed, the butler, and various other types.

[Vondy]

The Ultamate Megalomaniac!

With Von D-Man as the obvious write in candidate for the position of prime example!

[Crusader108]

Even in anime powered armor (Knight Sabers) has always been my favorite.

I gotta agree with you there. The Knight Sabers are my favorite anime characters :D I gotta vote Power Armor...although The Ultimate Patriot runs a real close second.

[levi]

I am surprised at the showing for Ultimate Metamorph (almost 10% as I write this). I voted for it and I am glad to see there is interest in what could be the most diverse Ultimate book in the line. It would also be something that us long time herophiles haven't seen before.

[BlackSword]

As I am going to be playing the mystic in our next campaign, the Ultimate Mystic gets my vote. For multi-genre uses it works well for urban fantasy games as well.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by D-Man
The Ultamate Megalomaniac!

With Von D-Man as the obvious write in candidate for the position of prime example!

I can see it now...

1. Panache- How to develop your own meglamanical style.
2. Minions and other disposables.
3. Tricks, Traps, and Doomsday Devices
and so on ;)

[TheQuestionMan]

The Ultimate Megalomanic is the wrong title though . We need something more General and descriptive . Suggestions ???

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by TheQuestionMan
The Ultimate Megalomanic is the wrong title though . We need something more General and descriptive . Suggestions ??? During the "ICE Age" there was some talk about Chris Avellone writing a book very like what's being described, with the title Essential Villainy. (Dave Mattingly was going to write a companion volume, Essential Heroism; in response, I was starting to put out feelers for another, Essential Comedy for the comedic sidekicks, nuisance heroes, and other humorous types, even down to entirely comedic campaigns of any genre.)

[Vanguard00]

...I voted for "Patriot", but I'd like to see it expanded into a more "gestalt" category. "The Living Embodiment Of...", for which 'Patriot' would be a subtype.

Them's my too sense.

[mattingly]

The Ultimate Megalomanic is the wrong title though . We need something more General and descriptive . Suggestions ???

The Ultimate Mastermind?
The Ultimate Threat?
Illuminati for Dummies?

[TheQuestionMan]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
During the "ICE Age" there was some talk about Chris Avellone writing a book very like what's being described, with the title Essential Villainy. (Dave Mattingly was going to write a companion volume, Essential Heroism; in response, I was starting to put out feelers for another, Essential Comedy for the comedic sidekicks, nuisance heroes, and other humorous types, even down to entirely comedic campaigns of any genre.)

Any chance we can aquire said manuscript . Clean off the dusty tome and update it for 5th .

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by TheQuestionMan
Any chance we can aquire said manuscript . Clean off the dusty tome and update it for 5th . Probably not; I know I did nothing more than concept, while I'm pretty sure Dave only got as far as an outline. I've no idea about Chris.

I'd certainly be happy to pen Essential Comedy (or even Essential Normalcy), but the decision as always is up to Steve & Co.