Rocky Mountain LOH

[bigdamnhero]

Assuming we intend to keep this group going past Genghis Con, I thought it might be good to have a thread here under the LOH section to talk about stuff not related to a specific con. We can also use this as a mailing list in case anyone wants to contact us, without having to set up a yahoo group.

To go along with what g-a has already written, I was thinking about website content the other day and started throwing together some FAQ-type thoughts:


What is the Legion of Heroes?
The Legion of Heroes (LOH) is a mostly-unofficial group of HERO System games who serve as Hero Games’ unofficial ambassadors in the gaming world. According to Hero Games’ website: “The members of the Legion will be our "point men" in the field, introducing other gamers to the HERO System and creating interest in it… Fanning out across the land, they'll carry news of Hero to game stores, gaming conventions, and anywhere else it needs to be heard.”
[note: we may want to ask Steve, et. al. to write something cleaner for this]

What is the Rocky Mountain Legion of Heroes? Think of us as your local chapter of the LOH. Basically, we’re just a bunch of folks in the Colorado area who love to play Hero games.

What do we do?
What part of “We’re just a bunch of folks who love to play Hero games” did you miss? :winkgrin: But seriously folks, we run a number of demo and convention games throughout Colorado’s front range. Check our calendar to see where, when and what.

Do you have a mailing list or other messaging service?
Not really, although many of us spend a fair amount of time (too much time, some might say) on the Hero Games discussion boards <link>. The best way to contact us is probably through this thread. If you have questions about this website, contact ghost-angel at…

What do you have to do to join the RMLoH?
Do you live in or around Colorado? Do you play Hero games? And have you signed up with the Legion Of Heroes? Congratulations, you’re in! (Click here <link> for information on signing up with the LOH.)

How can I contact the RMLoH officers?
Officers? Were we supposed to have officers? (We don’t need no shtinkin’ officers…)

Do I have to join anything before I can play one of your games?
That would kinda defeat the whole point, now wouldn't it?


Anyway, feel free to use or refuse as you feel appropriate. (I'm not one of those people who goes postal when his work is critiqued.)


bigdamnhero
"Looks like we got here just in the nick of time. What does that make us?"
"Big Damn Heroes, Sir!"
"Ain't we just!"

[ghost-angel]

I'll have to find a moment to work on actual website content...

Gimme a week, got some other sites I'm working on at the moment.

I'll post a linky soon.

[bigdamnhero]

No rush. Until the Genghis program comes out, it's all academic anyway. :)


bigdamnhero
"Just once I'd like to fight an alien menace that wasn't invulnerable to our weapons."

[jcfiala]

I knew I was forgetting to check one of my rpg bboards. Whoops.

*waves* Keep me in mind if a group is forming to promote HERO. I'm currently reading (and loving) The Valdorian age.

I wonder if Horror Hero is being re-written for Fred?

John

[teh bunneh]

Someone probably oughta post the site for those tuning in late... ;)

http://www.cellularsmoke.net/rmloh/

[stu2000]

I did not elect to offer any Hero games for the pre-reg book for Genghis Con. I don't know what life will be like in Feb. and I kinda wanted to keep things simple. But I will be up there, and I have a couple racy Hero scenarios I could run, impromptu-like. Or save for another con, if this is going to keep going.

I hope it does. We need more organized Colo play than just the D&D cheesemonkeys. Um . . . no offense to any cheesemonkeys. So keep me in mind, also.

[bigdamnhero]

We also talked about maybe standardizing some optional & house rules so players don’t feel they’re having to completely re-learn the system from event to event. I don’t necessarily think we have to use exactly the same rules in every game. If nothing else, different genres may require different rules – that’s part of showing how flexible the system is. But by advertising these as “RMLoH games” it seems to me we have implied some sort of coordination, and should aim for some degree of consistency.

So to start the conversation here are some rules that, if left to my own devices, I would likely use in my games. Most are designed either to simplify teaching the rules to newbies, or to speed up combat; some I just like better. I’m not “married” to any of them, and I’m certainly not trying to impose them on anyone else. I’m just throwing them out for discussion.


Optional rules:

• Alternate Attack Roll Calculation, ie: 11 + Atkr’s OCV – 3d6 roll = DCV hit
[I write “11+OCV” on the character sheet, so all the player has to do is add CSLs, subtract range, subtract die roll and then tell me what DCV they hit. Easier on the players and the GM? Seems to me that if nothing else we should probably all use the same method here, whichever one that turns out to be.]

• Knockback (in Champions game, not in SH game)
[It ain't Champions without KB! :D ]

• Standard x3 STUN modifier for Killing Attacks
[I’m not a fan of the STUN lotto, plus this speeds things up by eliminating a die roll]

• No Hit Location, no Bleeding/Impairing/Disabling Wounds
[I love them in home games, but IMO they slow combat down too much for a con setting]

• No Endurance (for SH game, not Champions)
[This doesn’t work for some genres, but for some games I’ll just build the PCs so that they have enough END to keep going for a few turns, and then tell the PCs not to worry about keeping track of END.]


House Rules:

• Fractional Range Modifiers: (-1/x” ala pre-4th Ed Hero)
[I always preferred this rule and never understood why they changed it. It makes it easy to have different range modifiers for different weapons/attacks, and I find it’s easier to teach new players because it’s similar to d20 range intervals.]

• Attack-Then-Move allowed:
[I allow characters to attack, then do a half-move. I find it encourages PCs to move around a little more, rather than just stand in one place and whale on each other.]

• Hex DCV=0:
[I’ve never understood why a 2-meter hex is harder to hit than a non-defending man standing in the middle of that hex. This does make it somewhat easier to hit with area-effect attacks, but I do allow Dive For Cover.]

• Reduced damage from holds
[Hold & squeeze does -1d6 damage. Just another one that has never made sense to me: I know I can do a lot more damage slugging or kicking someone than I can hugging them.]


Here’s one I have used in the past, but am undecided about using this time:

• Killing Damage Variant: Damage from Killing Attack are rolled the same as Normal Attacks of the same Damage Class (ie – a 6 DC killing attack is rolled as 6d6, Stun & Body counted as if it were a normal attack), but defenses are applied like killing attacks (ie – no PD vs Body damage).
o Pro: It’s one less mechanic for new players to learn, and the results are very close to the same.
o Con: It’s not like the mechanism for killing damage is all that complicated; it’s just different. Plus, if you have experienced Herophiles at the table, you have to take time to explain the house rule to them.


Your thoughts, give them to me. ;)


bigdamnhero
"Wait, I can't let you give me your last eight dollars. Here's five back."

[teh bunneh]

• Alternate Attack Roll Calculation, ie: 11 + Atkr’s OCV – 3d6 roll = DCV hit
[I write “11+OCV” on the character sheet, so all the player has to do is add CSLs, subtract range, subtract die roll and then tell me what DCV they hit. Easier on the players and the GM? Seems to me that if nothing else we should probably all use the same method here, whichever one that turns out to be.]

I usually write the total of 11+OCV on the character sheet (that is to say, if the char's OCV is 8, I just write "19 - 3d6 = DCV hit"). This usually confuses people familiar with Hero ("Whoa, I've got a 19 OCV???"), but they get used to it pretty quick.


• Knockback (in Champions game, not in SH game)
[It ain't Champions without KB! :D ]


Agree!


• Standard x3 STUN modifier for Killing Attacks
[I’m not a fan of the STUN lotto, plus this speeds things up by eliminating a die roll]

• No Hit Location, no Bleeding/Impairing/Disabling Wounds
[I love them in home games, but IMO they slow combat down too much for a con setting]


I'm on board with the standard 3x STUN in Champs. I agree that Bleeding/Impairing is likely to slow things down. I like to use Hit Location in fantasy games. It helps give them the fantasy feel, IMHO.


• No Endurance (for SH game, not Champions)
[This doesn’t work for some genres, but for some games I’ll just build the PCs so that they have enough END to keep going for a few turns, and then tell the PCs not to worry about keeping track of END.]


In convention games, I never keep track of END. It's just an extra piece of bookkeeping, IMHO.


• Fractional Range Modifiers: (-1/x” ala pre-4th Ed Hero)
[I always preferred this rule and never understood why they changed it. It makes it easy to have different range modifiers for different weapons/attacks, and I find it’s easier to teach new players because it’s similar to d20 range intervals.]


Explain this one to me; I'm not familiar with it.


• Attack-Then-Move allowed:
[I allow characters to attack, then do a half-move. I find it encourages PCs to move around a little more, rather than just stand in one place and whale on each other.]


I'll have to think about this one...


• Hex DCV=0:
[I’ve never understood why a 2-meter hex is harder to hit than a non-defending man standing in the middle of that hex. This does make it somewhat easier to hit with area-effect attacks, but I do allow Dive For Cover.]


I'll think about this one, too...


• Reduced damage from holds
[Hold & squeeze does -1d6 damage. Just another one that has never made sense to me: I know I can do a lot more damage slugging or kicking someone than I can hugging them.]


Not a fan of Ultimate Fighting, huh? I'd say about 90% of all KOs in UF are from holds, not punches. ;)


• Killing Damage Variant: Damage from Killing Attack are rolled the same as Normal Attacks of the same Damage Class (ie – a 6 DC killing attack is rolled as 6d6, Stun & Body counted as if it were a normal attack), but defenses are applied like killing attacks (ie – no PD vs Body damage).
o Pro: It’s one less mechanic for new players to learn, and the results are very close to the same.
o Con: It’s not like the mechanism for killing damage is all that complicated; it’s just different. Plus, if you have experienced Herophiles at the table, you have to take time to explain the house rule to them.


I'd say no to this one. Like you said, it's not complicated -- especially if we use the standard 3x stun multiplier.

Bill.

[ghost-angel]

Just a thought on Rules, first I like the idea of using the Optional Rules to speed things up for a Con Game - because you don't usually have the luxury of running even 15 minutes over.

I would say any rule that deviates from the System Rules we might want to avoid in the Con Setting, for the simple reason that part of what we're trying to do is promote the game and get people to buy it. If we present them with the System Rules and a list of Optional Rules we're doing ourselves a favor when they buy the book and eventually go .. "Wait, why aren't you following the rules?"

House Rules, in my experience never work out well with new people, experienced players have the ability to understand the difference much easier.

[bigdamnhero]

• Fractional Range Modifiers: (-1/x” ala pre-4th Ed Hero)
[I always preferred this rule and never understood why they changed it. It makes it easy to have different range modifiers for different weapons/attacks, and I find it’s easier to teach new players because it’s similar to d20 range intervals.]
Explain this one to me; I'm not familiar with it.
Sure. It's the old RMod rule from 3rd ed. Hero and earlier. (At least it was in FH, DI, etc - I can't remember about 3rd ed. Champions.)

RMods are expressed as -1/x". You get a -1 range penalty for every x” to the target. The default is -1/3".

The nice part is that it becomes much easier to customize the ranges of weapons/attack. Increasing the RMod is an +1/4 adv and buying it down is a -1/4 lim. As an example of how I work it for modern weapons:
Thrown chairs: -1/1" [-1/2 lim]
Thrown knives, grenades: -1/2" [-1/4 lim]
Pistols: -1/3" [+0 adv]
SMGs: -1/4" [+1/4 adv]
Rifles: -1/5" [+1/2 adv]
High-tech sci-fi sniper rifles: -1/7" [+1 adv]

[BTW -1/3” works out mathematically such that things are slightly easier to hit inside of ~12” (an average of +0.5), and rather harder to hit at long ranges without using brace +/or set. But brace & set each x1/2 the RMod, so they more than make up the difference at long ranges. Basically, I assume anyone doing serious sniping will have to brace & set.]

It’s pretty easy to run, but if you’ve never used it before and aren’t comfortable with it, it won’t kill me to use the table. ;)

bigdamnhero
“We're gonna die!”
“Think positive!”
“We're gonna die quickly!”

[bigdamnhero]

I would say any rule that deviates from the System Rules we might want to avoid in the Con Setting, for the simple reason that part of what we're trying to do is promote the game and get people to buy it. If we present them with the System Rules and a list of Optional Rules we're doing ourselves a favor when they buy the book and eventually go .. "Wait, why aren't you following the rules?"
Well, I'm not too worried about what players might say afterwards. It's not like they're going to sic the RPGA on us. ;) I always preface my con games with a disclaimer that I'm running a couple of house rules intended to simplify/speed things up. Never been an issue so far.

House Rules, in my experience never work out well with new people, experienced players have the ability to understand the difference much easier.
Hmm, I've never really had that problem; most new players don't know the rules well enough to know what I've changed. Most of the house rules I've used have been pretty minor anyway (with the exception of the killing damage variant).

That said, you have an excellent point that if the intent is to teach the system then we should probably, you know... TEACH THE SYSTEM. :D


bigdamnhero
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss Whedon

[ghost-angel]

Clarification: I should've said "inexpereince" as those who are already trying to get into the system and a con game is one of their few experiences in playing. Brand spakin' "never even seen the inside of the book" new people wouldn't know the different at all, you're right there.

Of course, part of the Hero System Rules is knowing when to deviate from it to fullfill your Gaming needs.

[archermoo]

“We're gonna die!”
“Think positive!”
“We're gonna die quickly!”

Shouldn't that be "We're positively gonna die!"?

;)

[bigdamnhero]

So... we never really finished the rules discussion. If I read everyone right, it seems we had pretty-much agreed on the optional rules, and there was little support for the house rules I had proposed?

Speaking of rules, here is a one-page combat summary sheet I usually hand out. (The original is in Excel, of course.) It does have a couple of the house rules I use (primarily range mods), but I can take those out if anyone is interested. Comments? Suggestions?


bigdamnhero
“This is for ladies only!”
[unzips fly] “So is *this*, ma'am, but every now and then I have to run a little water through it.”

[ghost-angel]

Ok, got it! ...I only had bios on Scott and Bill, so if any of the other GMs hosting games (officially or otherwise) who want a name check on the site lemme know.

The site does not contain full descriptions of each game at the moment - in an attempt to drive traffic to the Genghis Con site, which may then turn into pre-reg's and then into people playing the games... (I've been running cons to long...)

Rocky Mountain LoH Website (http://www.cellularsmoke.net/rmloh/).

Dirt simple, solid info.

[teh bunneh]

Oops... try this:

http://www.cellularsmoke.net/rmloh/

:D

[ghost-angel]

:o


That's what I get for thinking I can type and not cutting/pasting the URL.

fixed.

[bigdamnhero]

Well-done, G-A! :thumbup: Thanks again for putting the time into this.

I'll see if Craig & Scott want to submit bios or not. Bill, I assume you know this "Tammy Sue" lady? :D

Only other thing I thought about as far as website content would be if we wanted to put up some "Introduction to the HERO System" type stuff for the newbies. Maybe just links to some of the pdf docs on the Hero website? And/or we could put up an annotated sample character sheet, explaining what's what? (`Tho that sounds more like work.)


bigdamnhero
"I've never been this near to a woman before. It makes me want to do something. I don't know what it is, but whatever it is I want to do a lot of it!"

[ghost-angel]

Any files anyone wants to come up with I will host. Any HTML pages with examples or such (possibly the rules we'll be using) I will help create and host.

Basically... This is now open for input from those involved. I currently have the time to code and upload but not tons of time to work on lots of content.

Anything someone writes I will code and upload. As time permits I will be more than happy to help work on content.

I suppose I could join the Legion Of Heroes (I'm not a LoH member), but I don't plan on running games in the near future... So for now I shall be the webmaster behind everyone's nefarious plans. ;)

[bigdamnhero]

I currently have the time to code and upload but not tons of time to work on lots of content.
As soon as I get my games finished... :)


bigdamnhero
“They tell you never to strike a man with a closed fist, but it is on occasion hillarious.”

[Seanaci]

Coolio. I'll have to keep this thread in my subscribed ones for when DocO moves here (in case he would be interested in playing in a Hero game with fellow Hero-ites).

Might also be good for me too, as I've yet to play in a Hero game.

[bigdamnhero]

Coolio. I'll have to keep this thread in my subscribed ones for when DocO moves here (in case he would be interested in playing in a Hero game with fellow Hero-ites).
FYI, there's also this thread, which gets updated more frequently:

http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36528

Might also be good for me too, as I've yet to play in a Hero game.
:) I'm running a couple beginner games at Bencon (June 1-4) if you're interested.

[Seanaci]

Bencon?

And I will def. add that other link to my subscribed threads. :P Thanks.

[bigdamnhero]

Bencon?
Bencon: http://bengames.org/bencon/2006/index.html

It's the smallest of Denver's three gaming cons, but still a good time. Plus all the $$ goes to charity, so you get moral high ground and gaming all in one package. ;) Unfortunately, they still don't have the program book up on their website (I gather their webmaster quit on them or something), but you can scroll through the events on the registration page. The printed booklets should be available at various area gaming stores, `tho I haven't gone looking for them yet myself.

FYI I'm running two Hero scenarios: http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1005927#post1005927

...and I've added a second slot for the Pulp Hero "Friends 1935" game, for Friday morning 9am-1pm.

If you've got any other questions about the con, feel free to post here or PM me or whatever. Hope to see you there! :D

[Seanaci]

Cool.

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it. I have no time to take off of work and I have graduation parties out the butt to go to that weekend. Perhaps next year. Sounds like fun though.