Updating Ethnic Superfriends

[winterhawk]

Inspired by Enforcer's post:

http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2315

I have decided to use Apache Chief, Black Vulcan, Samurai and El Dorado as templates for some characters, with an XP bonus to the player who guesses who I based them off of.

The set up for these characters: All are mutants and were once heroes, but for one reason or another, have joined the equivalent of my campaign's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. What I have so far:

Black Vulcan is now Master AC (thank you Hermit for another great character suggestion), Hip Hop master of electricity. He's pretty much set.

The character based on Samurai is a martial artist who can transmute his body into the five basic Eastern elements (air, water, fire, wood & metal) for various effects.

I'm toying with the idea that the Apache Chief character having molecular control of his body (Growth, DI, Shrinking, Desolid, etc), but am open to suggestion.

What I need:

1) A new name for the Samurai character.

2) A new name for the Apache Chief character. I am toying with something like Ghost Mountain to represent his desolid/growth nature, but am open to suggestion.

3) El Dorado: A new name and power set. In the cartoons, he could read minds, create illusions and teleport by enveloping himself in his cape. I'm thinking mentalist.

As always, thanks in advance to the learned panel for the suggestions!

[Hermit]

Originally posted by winterhawk

Black Vulcan is now Master AC (thank you Hermit for another great character suggestion), Hip Hop master of electricity. He's pretty much set.


Ah shucks, you're welcome.




1) A new name for the Samurai character.


It may not quite fit, but you could call him "Five Rings"




2) A new name for the Apache Chief character. I am toying with something like Ghost Mountain to represent his desolid/growth nature, but am open to suggestion.

I like Ghost Mountain, another might be
Brother Mountain




3) El Dorado: A new name and power set. In the cartoons, he could read minds, create illusions and teleport by enveloping himself in his cape. I'm thinking mentalist.

Well, if you wanted to move him up to Mexico, you could call him something like "Smoke Jaguar" or "Jaguar's Shadow" and go with an Aztec motiff.

EDIT: OOpps, the Aztec stuff already got mentioned in the old thread, better give credit where credit is due :)

[Enforcer84]

Similarly, I was going to create a group of heroes using all the also rans from the various Justice League cartoons:

Apache Cheif
Black Vulcan
Samurai
El Dorado
Wendy and Marvin
Wonderdog
Cyborg
Firstorm

anyone else I'm missing?

[ShinDangaioh]

Gleek
The Wondertwins Zan & Jayna
Rima

[Enforcer84]

Rima? The Jungle Grrl?

[ShinDangaioh]

Rima was in at least one of the SuperFriends episodes.


I do wonder why Green Arrow was never in any of the shows. The trick arrows were a natural. Especially the boxing glove arrow.

[Karma]

Originally posted by Hermit
[B]
It may not quite fit, but you could call him "Five Rings"

Maybe because the elements in the 'Book of 5 rings' were Earth, Air, Fire, Water and Void, which were possibly the 5 elements in Japan, as distict from the 5 mentioned before which were, I believe Chinese. Not all Asian countries use the same 'mystic traditions'.
Of course this means if you want to be accurite the Samuri type will have to have the Japanese elements as 'forms'. Then again, as far as this type of 'sterotypical charaterisation' is concerned, "Asians is Asians".

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Karma
Then again, as far as this type of 'sterotypical charaterisation' is concerned, "Asians is Asians".

I hope you're not putting words in anyone's mouth. Neither I, nor Winterhawk said any such thing. That's exactly why I said it might not be a good fit.

Though, If by that you meant the old Superfriends show had that problem ,I totally agree. I think that was one thing Winterhawk was trying to avoid though.

[CrosshairCollie]

If 4th Edition Ninja Hero is accurate, 'Yooso' is the Japanese word for The Elements.

[Armitage]

Originally posted by ShinDangaioh
Rima was in at least one of the SuperFriends episodes.


I do wonder why Green Arrow was never in any of the shows. The trick arrows were a natural. Especially the boxing glove arrow.

He was in one of the "Wendy & Marvin Era" episodes. The one where the scientist was going to shrink every person on Earth to a few inches tall in order to increase the available natural resources.
Wendy and Marvin called him for help after the Superfriends had all been shrunken. Unfortunately, they overlooked the fact that the villain was using radio as the carrier wave to transmit his shrinking effect.
He answered the distress call and ZAP.

[Marchwarden]

Daimyo-no-yooso.

Or just Yooso-sama.

[Karma]

Originally posted by Hermit
Though, If by that you meant the old Superfriends show had that problem, I totally agree. I think that was one thing Winterhawk was trying to avoid though.
That's what I meant.
However, I still think any attempt to create 'ethnically based heroes' is walking a fine line. I just hope Winterhawk doesn't cross it.

[winterhawk]

Originally posted by Karma
That's what I meant.
However, I still think any attempt to create 'ethnically based heroes' is walking a fine line. I just hope Winterhawk doesn't cross it.

Wow, this thread totally got off track...I'm creating an African American EB, a Native American Growth Brick, a Japanese Metamorph and a Latino Mentalist. They are homages to some of my fondest childhood heroes. Funny thing, when I watched Superfriends in my youth, I never even noticed they were multicultural...they were just superheroes. This whole thread was just to get input on character creation. I thought it would be cute to throw these guys at my players, then at the end go "OK, for an extra XP, who did I base these guys on?" I've done the same thing with the JLA, the Avengers and even a team from another campaign.

End of Rant, back to topic.

I came up with what I hope is an anime/manga sounding name for the Samurai based character...I'm going to go with Element Warrior 5.

Still stuck on El Dorado...since he was the least prominent or utilized of these guys.

[Crusader108]

2) A new name for the Apache Chief character. I am toying with something like Ghost Mountain to represent his desolid/growth nature, but am open to suggestion.

Ghost Mountain is pretty good.

Another possible:
Great Spirit
The Reservation

[Enforcer84]

Originally posted by Karma
That's what I meant.
However, I still think any attempt to create 'ethnically based heroes' is walking a fine line. I just hope Winterhawk doesn't cross it.

Why, because he could ruin the poetry and pride that was "Black Vulcan"?

alright, that was petty.

But, if I might ask, why is it a fine line to make an ethnically based superhero?

[Publius]

Originally posted by winterhawk
Still stuck on El Dorado... I actually kinda liked Hermit's "Smoke Jaguar"

other suggestions, all lifted from the glossary of a book "A War of Witches"
...tonal, one of the aspects of the Aztec soul that gave the spark of life, fate and luck.
...yollo, the aspect of the soul equated with the heart, life, movement
...ecahuil (Eca-will), the "Shadow", the cool dark part of the soul
...nagual, associated with the animal alter ego, often paired with the ecahuil fir a three part soul: (tonal/yollo/ecahuil-nagual)

Cool thread with some very nice ideas. I like the bonus XP idea :D

[Crimson Arrow]

How about Spirit Mountain, Ghost Giant (gotta love that alliteration), Talltree, Longwalker, Cloudtoucher, for the Native American? I like the last one as it incorporates the ideas of height and insubstantiality.

For your South American, wasn't there some Aztec god whose emblem was an obsidian mirror? I think he looked like a jaguar or ocelote and it might be what Hermit had in mind.

This suggests Black/Dark/Obsidian Mirror (last one slightly too long, I think), or incorporating Hermit's thinking, Smoke (or Smoking) Mirror. I think the dark mirror theme could fit in with his powers, as you've described them. Just don't give him a Glaswegian accent!

[winterhawk]

Thanks for the input...here's the results...Stonecloud, Element Warrior 5, Master AC & Smoking Mirror...costumes were inspired by their Superfriends counterparts...

[Hermit]

Hmm, it's saying it's invalid, and won't work for me. :(

[winterhawk]

Forgot Attachment

[Hermit]

Okay, maybe it's just the fact I came up with the name that's biasing me... but Master A.C. looks cool :)

Hmm think the tongue on Element Warrior 5's shirt should be more serpentine/demony, but that's a small quibble.

[winterhawk]

Originally posted by Hermit
Okay, maybe it's just the fact I came up with the name that's biasing me... but Master A.C. looks cool :)

Hmm think the tongue on Element Warrior 5's shirt should be more serpentine/demony, but that's a small quibble.

Master AC is a modified John Henry Irons from Superman Animated...I agree on the tongue...and its supposed to be a Japanese styled full body tattoo

[JmOz]

You forgot one, was only in one episode I beleive (maybe 2), some forgetable female tarzan type

[TheTemplar]

Originally posted by JmOz
You forgot one, was only in one episode I beleive (maybe 2), some forgetable female tarzan type

You're not thinking of the Growth villain from the LoD, are you? I can't remember her name, but she ran around in leopard skins and always tangled w/ the Chief because they had more or less the same powerset.

-T

[Hermit]

I think he's talking about 'Rima'.

[TheTemplar]

Originally posted by Hermit
I think he's talking about 'Rima'.

Oh..right on.

[TheEmerged]

Don't forget that Plastic Man also showed up during the Wendy & Marvin Era.

As for Apache Chief, I *almost* like what they've done with him in the comics -- turning him into the team mystic, with the growth trick as but one of many tricks.

[Oruncrest]

Originally posted by TheTemplar
You're not thinking of the Growth villain from the LoD, are you? I can't remember her name, but she ran around in leopard skins and always tangled w/ the Chief because they had more or less the same powerset.

-T

Nah. You're thinking about Giganta, a GA Wonder Woman supervillianess who was 'updated' (read: had her origin gutted and her abilities changed) to make her into Apache Chief's nemisis.

Jim's thinking about Rima, who had a blue leotard and white hair. And that's all I know about her.

[Karma]

Originally posted by Enforcer84
Why, because he could ruin the poetry and pride that was "Black Vulcan"?

alright, that was petty.

But, if I might ask, why is it a fine line to make an ethnically based superhero?

Because they can so easily become ethnic 'stereotype' based supers. When your trying to base a power set around something like ethnicity you have to watch that you don't use 'racial profiling' to do it. Black Gangsta Rappers with 'berserk' (Cause all black men have anger management issues) who use 'Muther****er' every second word. Japanese Samuri with 'Kung Fu powers' (Mix in a little of every Eastern culture, their all the same aren't they?). Midweastern white man who is slackjawed, carries a shotgun, drives around in a pick-up and has an intolerance of anyone different called 'Redneck'. You see the idea.

Not that I'm saying that this has anything to do with what Winterhawk is doing, it's just a danger that can arise.
Then again I've heard on this board about people who enjoyed playing charatcers based on totally offensive racial sterotypes (I believe the mexican called Coackroach was one) so some people get some cathasis out of this Sh**. I suppose you just need to understand your fellow gamers and whether they might be offended at this or not.
Personally the next time someone brings an MA into my game whose origin is 'He's Asian' I'm going to have words with him.
And don't get me started about Australian supers and boomerangs.

[Enforcer84]

Granted, but this is about updating the Superfriend's "tokens"; that's what they were too, sure they didn't have stereotypical superpowers but their names and costumes were horrifingly stereotyped.
Apache Chief? Black Vulcan? Samurai? El Dorado?

Do you really need to see a picture of these guys to know which one was of what nationality? That was the running joke in the original thread and then I started one asking if they could come up with less hackneyed names and back grounds for them, Winterhawk took it and ran.

I still don't see where his actions warrented a lecture on ethnic sensitivity, even if it was a one sentence "watch yourself" warning.

anyway, I am probably over reacting, I do that, and I tend to snipe, so I apologize in advance if this is looking that way to you. I've said my piece and now I leave the soapbox...thingy.


Hey! 500 posts! I am half way to the Millenium Club!
of course when I arrive, they will all be at the Bimillenium club and I will be left alone, no Buffy Babes to bring me drinks....*sigh*

["V"]

I always used to find it amusing in some of the (ahem) less innovative comics that while Good Old Uncle U.S of Stateside (the former colonies...) had a plethora of varied superheroes inspired by diverse concepts, origins, themes etc, the cast list for non-American supers tended to be based around nation/culture and little else. Samurai based or (preserve us) Kamikaze based Japanese heroes, "British Bulldog" and an abundance of knights in armour for England etc etc.

Of course taking those preconceptions, changing them, and playing with them can be fun, but I agree it's important to handle the issue sensitively. I still cringe when I look back on Marvel's Power Man and his 'authentic' dialogue.

Shoot.
Christmas.

etc.

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by Karma

And don't get me started about Australian supers and boomerangs.

No, no, no. Australian supers should be NINJAS! :D

[Armitage]

Originally posted by "V"
Of course taking those preconceptions, changing them, and playing with them can be fun, but I agree it's important to handle the issue sensitively. I still cringe when I look back on Marvel's Power Man and his 'authentic' dialogue.

Shoot.
Christmas.

etc.

They made a joke about that in the last Heroes for Hire series. They were fighting the U-Foes and Ironclad was mocking Cage for his exclamations.
"...you even swear like a wuss."
"My Grandma didn't like me to curse..."
Cage flattens Ironclad with one punch
"...and she's a lot meaner than you."

[Karma]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost
No, no, no. Australian supers should be NINJAS! :D
At least Seeker broke stereotypes... then again there are those who say Australia should consider itself part of Asia, and all Asians are Martial Artists ... damn.

[winterhawk]

Shoulda know my players we're too big of fan boys...they had it nailed as soon as Stonecloud grew...and my one player who is a Silver Age nut let me have it for not using Rima...he quoted all 3 of the episodes that she teamed up with 'regular' Superfriends. Extra experience for all.