[World Building] Magic System

[JmOz]

I have been working on the magical system of my world for the last couple pf days, this is what I have come up with

There are 16 gods in this world, each god grants spell like abilities to it's followers (not necesarily the priests), normaly to the most devote of there followers.

3 of the gods (called the gods of magic) take a different approach, they grant it to anyone who aproach it from a schlostic approach.

For Divine Magic the common limitations are: When serving {specific God} agenda, Foci (normaly OIF), Incantations, and to a much lesser extent Gestures

For Schlatic Magic the common limitations are RSR, Gestures, Incantations, Foci (expendable normaly)

Divine Magic is usualy tied into one foci (a religious symbol), while Scholastic tend to have a variety of spell components

The rest is on scholastic, Divine needs alot more work, as while it will follow certain basic rules, each god will have his/her own unique elements

Magic is bought as a MP with a -3/4 limitation (RSE, all spells must have an additional -1/2 lims, the second lim is only on the MP, not the slots)

all spells get as a +0 advantantage: May draw on End or End Reserve defined as a Mana pool

Mana Pool's must have the Foci limitation (The idea is that some items can "store Mana")

There is a council of mages who govern magic, hunt renegades, regulate who can and can not use magic...etc...

[Super Squirrel]

Interesting.

[Old Man]

I'm with you except for the use of MP as the framework. I've encountered all kinds of potential problems with using MP for FH magic, but YMMV.

[Super Squirrel]

I'm with you except for the use of MP as the framework. I've encountered all kinds of potential problems with using MP for FH magic, but YMMV.
Agreed. VPP is much better in the long run in my opinion.

[gojira]

Hmm, I guess I'm not really sure, since I haven't played anything similar, but a couple of thoughts spring to mind:

"Only when serving the god's purpose." This could be very limiting if enforced properly. If only a couple of spells have it (Detect Evil, Turn Undead), fine. Any more and the player may be very constrained when not on a god approved mission.


The theme of gods giving magic to any one who will study needs a little work. It's just too similar to the priestly one. Maybe these gods founded a temple or a monestary on a high mountain top, and decreeded that only the most worthy should have magic. Thus they dicated holy texts to the monks of the temple that would enable anyone who could understand them to weild the power of the gods themselves.

These scrolls, which have the secrets of the gods in them, are copied from monestary to monestary. The monestaries are sustained by donations from the wealthy (and high fees for prospective students). Those who enter must agree to preform menial labor to support the monestary ("Paint my fence!") but in return are eventually allowed to read the scrolls and attempt to understand their secrets. Many fail. Those who cannot learn but whish to stay on become monks and scribes guarding the scrolls.


Or sumtin like dat. :)

[Old Man]

Agreed. VPP is much better in the long run in my opinion.

Disagreed. VPPs have all the problems I have with MPs, amplified, plus some extras. In my opinion, of course.

[Markdoc]

Whereas I've been using Multis for years without a problem :p

They key, the one absolute and necessary rule is that if you use multis, the number of times casters can use spells or the usefulness of spells must be tightly restricted (and preferably both). That way casters can (if they wish) have many spells cheaply - and often quite powerful ones - but they can't use them all the time. If they *can*, kiss all other character types goodbye - a fighter/mage will turn an ordinary fighter to pastrami, a thief/mage will laugh at the bumbling efforts of normal rogues, etc.

That seems to work well - mages can pull astounding effects out of their ...umm, hat... when they really need to, but have to fall back on mundane skills or rely on those who have them most of the time.

I do both. In my game, all spellcasting costs Mana, which is simply LTE. In other words, a mage with 30 END who uses 25 END to cast spells is going to have to rest for quite a few hours to regain them. Until he does, he has 5 END left to carry his stuff, run, fight, etc. It also rules out the common use of flight spells, and so on. The mage might be able to fly his group over castle wall, but the END cost will kill him if he tries to fly them across the country. In addition I require extra time, and concentration, so if that sword-swingin' barbarian gets within arm's reach, the mage is well advised to fall back on his own combat skills. Works well for me. Magic can still work in combat - you just need some protection or the element of surprise to make it safe.

cheers, Mark

[Old Man]

The LTE cost helps, but does nothing to abate my two biggest problems with using MPs (and VPPs) for magic. I will restate them here:

1. The 'swiss army knife' effect, wherein the wizard is able to cheaply buy and use so many different powers that he becomes a real threat to the GM's ability to plot. When the wizard literally has every power in the book, and has attacks of every conceivable special effect, it gets much harder to challenge the party. What's that? The villain is only affected by yellow attacks? Fortunately I bought a yellow RKA, it only cost three points in the MP! I had enough points left over to buy mind control and darkness in case we need to interrogate him later and sneak out of the dungeon!

2. The lack-of-limitations effect, where the player is so disincented to buy limitations on a per-spell basis that he doesn't bother, making each spell a superpower with RSR. The key to making Hero magic feel like magic is to heavily load each spell with limitations far beyond the usual RSR/incantations/concentrate. I'm used to routinely building spells with -4 or -5 in limitations. In a 60-point MP (which is huge), with -2 in the usual boring limitations, a slot costs only, what, 4 points?--the player gains nothing (or very little) by stacking more limitations on that slot. So every spell is effectively cast the exact same way.

[JmOz]

A couple of odds and ends

Characters will not be allowed to make spells (at least not at first, and even then with a lot of GM oversight). Preconstructed spells will be the standard

Second a limitation on the Schlastic Magic System I forgot

Armor will be divided into a number of catagories, with penalties ranging from -0 to -4 on the RSR roll, depending on the type of armor

(Heavy Clothing and Light Leather will be -0, while Plate will be -4, Chainmail will probably be -3, Med Leather -1, Studded Leather, Scale Mail etc -2)

[Old Man]

Well, if you're going to write all the spells yourself, then that helps. It's especially a good idea if your players are new to the system. But it does take away one of the biggest strengths of FH, IMO.

[Super Squirrel]

Another thing I find useful is the custom rule in, I think, Fantasy Hero that says for every spell you maintain beyond INT/5, you get a -1 on all skill rolls.

[Greatwyrm]

Armor will be divided into a number of catagories, with penalties ranging from -0 to -4 on the RSR roll, depending on the type of armor

(Heavy Clothing and Light Leather will be -0, while Plate will be -4, Chainmail will probably be -3, Med Leather -1, Studded Leather, Scale Mail etc -2)

Maybe it's just the lazy GM in me. Instead of making a table and trying to account for all the armor available in the game, maybe just make the penalty = (DEF/2). Magical or specially crafted armor could include what would amount to a PSL (and priced the same). For example, you could have plate armor 8 DEF (-4 RSR), but have it specially fitted and hinged so the RSR is only -2 (for the AP cost of 2 PSLs).


The key to making Hero magic feel like magic is to heavily load each spell with limitations far beyond the usual RSR/incantations/concentrate. I'm used to routinely building spells with -4 or -5 in limitations.

I've been kicking around an idea of a campaign rule that the RP you have in a spell can't exceed the RP you have in the Power skill the RSR is based on. If you're Necromancy is Int+1, then you can't have more than 5 RP in any Necromancy spell. A 30 AP spell would need -5 worth of limitations to get down to that level, but only -3.25 (approx) if you had Necromancy at Int+2.

[JmOz]

I thought of making it defence based, and in some ways it is, but I feel that some armors will be moved up or down depending (Hide armor, for example will probbaly be one step higher)

[Markdoc]

The LTE cost helps, but does nothing to abate my two biggest problems with using MPs (and VPPs) for magic. I will restate them here:

1. The 'swiss army knife' effect, wherein the wizard is able to cheaply buy and use so many different powers that he becomes a real threat to the GM's ability to plot. When the wizard literally has every power in the book, and has attacks of every conceivable special effect, it gets much harder to challenge the party. What's that? The villain is only affected by yellow attacks? Fortunately I bought a yellow RKA, it only cost three points in the MP! I had enough points left over to buy mind control and darkness in case we need to interrogate him later and sneak out of the dungeon!

Yeah, fair comment. The way I deal with that is requiring all magic power frameworks to have very clearly defined theme. The character still ends up with many powers, but there is a definate point of diminishing returns. Nonetheless, tricked-out wizards can be plot-benders. I just deal with that as best I can.


2. The lack-of-limitations effect, where the player is so disincented to buy limitations on a per-spell basis that he doesn't bother, making each spell a superpower with RSR. The key to making Hero magic feel like magic is to heavily load each spell with limitations far beyond the usual RSR/incantations/concentrate. I'm used to routinely building spells with -4 or -5 in limitations. In a 60-point MP (which is huge), with -2 in the usual boring limitations, a slot costs only, what, 4 points?--the player gains nothing (or very little) by stacking more limitations on that slot. So every spell is effectively cast the exact same way.

This is true also, and I just accept that :) The way it tends to work, is that the limitations go on the reserve and every slot has to have those, so the only ones you get on specific slots are those required to build the spells (for example, things like "does not work underwater" for a smoke-based darkness field and similar. I get the "magic feel" by building in a requirement for magicky limitations at the beginning: in other words "these schools or magic are known in the area where your character is starting - if you want to be a mage you can choose one of these"

Cheers, Mark