Yet another neophyte question...

[dropblack]

So, on page 148 of Star Hero there's an example of an energy sword--

RKA 3d6, NND (defense is ED Force Field/Force Wall, or being blocked by another energy blade: +1), Does Body (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END: +1/2) (157 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Range (-1/2) (total cost: 63 points); plus RKA 2d6, NND (defense is ED Force Field/Force Wall, or being blocked by another energy blade: +1), Does Body (+1), Continuous (+1), Damage Shield (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END: +1/2) (150 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (-1/4), Only Affects Material Objects Which Strike Blade (-1/2) (total cost: 54 points). Total cost: 117 points... (I think I've copied it correctly...)

As you can probably tell if you've read my other postings, I've never played Hero System but am intent upon learning it, hence some pretty dumb questions.

In regards to the example above--
Why RKA if it is for all intents and purposes an HKA? There is an example of a Laser Sword on page 194 of the Revised Edition that is an HKA, hence my confusion. Is this to simulate deflecting or firing energy bolts? And if so why the No Range (-1/2)?

Much of the info in the example is repeated. Being the neophyte that I am, I do not understand why. Is the second bit the description of the Damage Shield?

What is Linked to what? I think the Link involves the Damage Shield but I'm not sure.

Thanks!

[SuperKlaus]

I honestly don't know why it's written as an RKA there. I'd think it's because HKAs add Strength in to their damage, which a laser sword would not, but it could and should be an HKA with the No STR Bonus Limitation for the exact same price. Unless of course there's some little detail I'm missing.

Yes, the apparently repeated information is describing the Damage Shield (which I think is a silly waste of points and really ought to be covered under SFX and common sense but that's another matter). The Damage Shield is Linked to the main Killing Attack, indicating that it's only available for use when the Attack is in use.

And I think putting "can be stopped by blocking with another energy blade" is stupid too, but that's irrelevant. Welcome to Hero, sir.

[Edsel]

An RKA normally does not get to add damage for the user's Strength unless it is specifically designed to do so (with STR Minimum and other such modifications). An HKA by default does. The idea behind this energy blade is that the user's Strength will not add damage to the attack. In other words all of the damage done by the blade is due to its own energy.

The Linked limitation means that the damage shield will not work unless the RKA is activated. It is a very minor limitation but what it is basically saying is that the Damage Shield is not going to work unless the blade is turned on.

[Rapier]

As to the HKA vs RKA question...its six of one and half dozen the other.

The effect they are going for is a handheld melee weapon that gets no benefit from the user's strength. You can either do that as a No Range RKA or a No STR Added HKA. There is no functional difference between the two. Both are equally valid concepts and completely interchangable.

The Damage Shield portion reflects the fact that the weapon itself can do damage to things just by being in contact with it. This is the proverbial light saber. If you hold a staff or normal sword against the weapon (say, with a block), the laser sword will do damage to the blocking weapon.

In a listing like this, any powers that have Linked limitations are considered to be linked to the first power listed (unless otherwise specifically stated). In this case it means that the Damage Shield is not active unless the RKA is turned on.

Hope that helps clear some things up.

[dropblack]

So basically an RKA with No Range (-1/2) is the same as creating the weapon using an HKA with No STR Bonus (-1/2) (?) unless I'm missing something.

[dropblack]

Just got Rapier's response--that helps quite a bit as well. Thanks!

[Hyper-Man]

So basically an RKA with No Range (-1/2) is the same as creating the weapon using an HKA with No STR Bonus (-1/2) (?) unless I'm missing something.yep. you got it.

[BNakagawa]

can you block a rka/no range?

[ghost-angel]

I would say yes.

[zornwil]

As to the HKA vs RKA question...its six of one and half dozen the other.

The effect they are going for is a handheld melee weapon that gets no benefit from the user's strength. You can either do that as a No Range RKA or a No STR Added HKA. There is no functional difference between the two. Both are equally valid concepts and completely interchangable.

The Damage Shield portion reflects the fact that the weapon itself can do damage to things just by being in contact with it. This is the proverbial light saber. If you hold a staff or normal sword against the weapon (say, with a block), the laser sword will do damage to the blocking weapon.

In a listing like this, any powers that have Linked limitations are considered to be linked to the first power listed (unless otherwise specifically stated). In this case it means that the Damage Shield is not active unless the RKA is turned on.

Hope that helps clear some things up.
Hey, Rapier, I like the new (new to me, anyway) avatar!

[Hyper-Man]

can you block a rka/no range?
I don't believe there is a specific rule but I would imagine Steve's answer would be something along the lines of 'yes, at the GM's discretion based on the special effect of the power'.

Also, keep in mind that 'No Range' is a limitation and the ability to not be blocked in HTH combat sounds a lot like a Damage Shield.

HM

[Rapier]

Hey, Rapier, I like the new (new to me, anyway) avatar!

They took pity on my stale avatarness and ponied up a couple for me! :) (sniff sniff) These guys is da bomb! :)

[Rapier]

I don't believe there is a specific rule but I would imagine Steve's answer would be something along the lines of 'yes, at the GM's discretion based on the special effect of the power'.

Also, keep in mind that 'No Range' is a limitation and the ability to not be blocked in HTH combat sounds a lot like a Damage Shield.

I would be hard pressed to come up with any logic that would NOT allow a Block. Block is specifically used to stop a Hand-to-Hand attack. A No Range attack is, by definition, a hand-to-hand attack, neh?

[zornwil]

I wonder what "Only Affects Material Objects Which Strike Blade (-1/2)" is supposed to mean and if this has impact on a block?

[Rapier]

I wonder what "Only Affects Material Objects Which Strike Blade (-1/2)" is supposed to mean and if this has impact on a block?

It is kind of hinky, but I was thinking it to mean that if you turn the thing on and leave it on the table it won't eat a whole in your fine china. But I'm just guessing.

[Hyper-Man]

I would be hard pressed to come up with any logic that would NOT allow a Block. Block is specifically used to stop a Hand-to-Hand attack. A No Range attack is, by definition, a hand-to-hand attack, neh?

getting very far away from the lightsaber example...

a simple 'shocking grasp' type spell (EB with No Range) would be a good example of how the attack is being blocked would make a great deal of difference since the special effect of the attack is that only a touch of the target is required to hit. If a block is performed with a weapon/shield/focus that still touches the attacker's touch-point (hand/wand/etc..) the blocker still gets affected by the attack. If the block is performed by hand and focuses on the attacker's wrist it would stop the attack. Definitely a GM's call though.

[Hyper-Man]

I wonder what "Only Affects Material Objects Which Strike Blade (-1/2)" is supposed to mean and if this has impact on a block?

It means that the Damage Shield does not cover the person wielding the lightsaber; someone or something hitting the person would not be affected by this, it only affects anything touching the blade.

[zornwil]

Oh, that makes sense, I had missed that Damage Shield was actualy in there - I saw your comment on DS but thought it was more theoretical than this was how it was built. Thanks.

[Sean Waters]

I would be hard pressed to come up with any logic that would NOT allow a Block. Block is specifically used to stop a Hand-to-Hand attack. A No Range attack is, by definition, a hand-to-hand attack, neh?

No Range defines itself as representing a ranged power that does not work at range, but only at HtH range. Block only works against HtH attacks. Technically No Range does not turn a ranged power into a HtH attack (by strict interpretation of the rules) but it would frankly be mad to assume that this was the case, and the power write up clearly anticipates that the power CAN be blocked.

Personally I am happy to let even ranged attacks be blocked at HtH range: if someone points a gun at me I might not be able to Wonder Woman the bullet, but I can sure knock his arm or gun to one side, thus blocking the attack in effect, even if it is not the attack I blocked, but the delivery system.

As to why the energy sword is built with no range RKA, I'd guess that would be a cost issue: it is already ridiculously expensive for a Star Hero or even a superhero game.

[Dust Raven]

I've always ruled that the Limitation "No Range" does not turn a Ranged attack into a HTH attack. There is such a thing as a "ranged" attack with a range of 6 feet afterall. For such Powers, I usually let SFX decide if something can be blocked and how. As Sean says, it's reasonable to assume you can knock someone's aim off if he is in HTH range (and it's been done countless times in film). In cases like this, I would assign penalties to the Block according to the rules for having an appropriate weapon to block with.

As for the laser sword, I think everybody else has covered that pretty well. RKA No Range = HKA No STR Bonus.

[BNakagawa]

I would be hard pressed to come up with any logic that would NOT allow a Block. Block is specifically used to stop a Hand-to-Hand attack. A No Range attack is, by definition, a hand-to-hand attack, neh?

Not necessarily. A flamethrower might be considered a ranged attack witn no range. (STR doesn't make it hit any harder and the flame starts at the end of your nozzle)

[Dust Raven]

Not necessarily. A flamethrower might be considered a ranged attack witn no range. (STR doesn't make it hit any harder and the flame starts at the end of your nozzle)

A flamethrower would be AE: Line though, so it still has a "range" of sort.

[Vondy]

So basically an RKA with No Range (-1/2) is the same as creating the weapon using an HKA with No STR Bonus (-1/2) (?) unless I'm missing something.

Bingo.

Its a matter of personal taste.

[ghost-angel]

A flamethrower would be AE: Line though, so it still has a "range" of sort.
Range, within Hero as I've used it, means where the attack starts from, AoE is what the attack effects.

A Flamethrower is No Range because it has to start from the nozel (can't toss it waaay out there and haev it set things on fire like a Grenade) and goes out to a set Area Of Effect (Line in this case).

So, Flamethrowers don't have a Range in the sense of throwing/shooting the attack, it has a range of Effect within the Area though.

Unless that's what you meant and I missed it completely... :)

[Dust Raven]

Range, within Hero as I've used it, means where the attack starts from, AoE is what the attack effects.

A Flamethrower is No Range because it has to start from the nozel (can't toss it waaay out there and haev it set things on fire like a Grenade) and goes out to a set Area Of Effect (Line in this case).

So, Flamethrowers don't have a Range in the sense of throwing/shooting the attack, it has a range of Effect within the Area though.

Unless that's what you meant and I missed it completely... :)

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. Flamethrowers have No Range, the game mechanics, but they do have range, in that they can hit things way over there.

[Rapier]

A flamethrower would be AE: Line though, so it still has a "range" of sort.

I would say it has an "area of effect" instead of a "range" but that is all semantics.

There are very few powers (mental powers being the most obvious exception) that could not be blocked at HtH range. All of my players must define some kind of SFX for each attack. Even if you are battling some Pyro type that has the ability to spurt flames from his hands...you can still knock his hands out of the way so that he would miss you...or at least miss part of the damage. That was pretty much where I'm coming from.

Now before y'all go ape-feces, yes I can also think of a bunch of attacks that could not be so blocked...eye beams, ego attacks, etc. But as always SFX rules all.

[prestidigitator]

I wonder what "Only Affects Material Objects Which Strike Blade (-1/2)" is supposed to mean and if this has impact on a block?
I think it means you don't automatically smack with your weapon anyone who lands a successful blow on you, as a normal Damage Shield applied to the weapon would allow. ;)

EDIT: Err...yeah. IOW, what Hyper-Man said.

[prestidigitator]

No Range defines itself as representing a ranged power that does not work at range, but only at HtH range. Block only works against HtH attacks. Technically No Range does not turn a ranged power into a HtH attack (by strict interpretation of the rules) but it would frankly be mad to assume that this was the case, and the power write up clearly anticipates that the power CAN be blocked.
I believe Steve Long has specifically said that it is left undefined whether a Ranged attack with No Range can be treated as a HTH attack, and this should be handled by the GM on a case-by-case basis using common and dramatic sense. I would personally go so far as to say there should actually be two (equally-costed) versions of the No Range Limitation, but either way.