Area Effect and Ego Attack

[Blue]

I'm trying to iron out for my own benefit how an area effect ego attack would work for purposes of rolling to hit. I'd bug steve directly, but he gets plenty of these questions that he has to refere elsewhere.

I'm trying to remember how the attack is resolved. If it's AOE then I'm able to target the hex? Is the hex dECV 3 also? (Seems kinda odd. Would seem like an easy way of hitting a mentalist whom you can't normally defeat in a straight up mind-to-mind ECV roll. But that's kind of the case with DEX and regular attacks AOE.)

I managed to find a little snippet in the FAQ about being able to dive for cover against such attacks, which indicates to me that you *can* target a hex with a mental AOE.

Wish I had my book with me :(

Can anyone explain to me resolving such attacks?
Thanks in advance.

[Old Man]

In theory if you pay for it, you can do it.

EBlast with AE targets a hex and if you hit all the other hexes are hit also. The only factor is the target hex DCV. Everything else is automatically hit.

I don't see why it wouldn't work for Ego Attack.

[TheEmerged]

I'm not aware of this being officially answered under 5th Edition. "The Ultimate Mentalist", under 4th Edition, has this to say...


Ultimate Mentalist pg 75
Area Of Effect Mental Powers are targetted against DECV 3... A mentalist does not need to have Line Of Sight on all possible targets in the Area of Effect to affect them; he need only have LOS on the ***target point*** of the area

Emphasis mine. That, to my knowledge, is the closest we've come to a straight answer. AoE is very conspicuously missing on FREd pg 81...

[Blue]

Thanks.

My idea was to have a simple ego attack called "Psychic Feedback" with the special effect that it hurts the people around the target as well as the target because the hero is forcing the target to transmit their natural latent psychic energies outward.

I kept coming back to it in my mind that it seemed like I was somehow circumventing the system. Then I'd reason it out that the same thing happens with regular attacks and AOE. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some step in logic.

If it's that obtuse in the rules maybe I'll pose it to steve in the other board as well and see what he has to say. Thanks again!

[Killer Shrike]

Dont have my book, so FWIW:
I would posit that a hex has no mind and therefore cant be the target of mental powers. I would force all such powers to take Non Selective, or perhaps RSR: Opposed (EGO Rolls), No AP Penalty


However, for the power you are describing, some form of Explosion might be the better modifier, with the Explosion limited to targeting an individual ECV vs ECV and then spreading out from there. You'll also get a bigger Radius from this AND since most people dont have Mental DEF it would be much more effective than an Explosion normally is.

[Derek Hiemforth]

This is in the FAQ under Mental Powers. In a nutshell, yes, you can use Area Effect on Mental Powers, you target them using your OECV against the target hex's DECV of 3, and you don't need Line of Sight on everyone in the area in order for them to be affected; you only need Line of Sight to the target hex.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Dont have my book, so FWIW:
I would posit that a hex has no mind and therefore cant be the target of mental powers. I would force all such powers to take Non Selective, or perhaps RSR: Opposed (EGO Rolls), No AP Penalty

That "no mind, no ecv" thing is one thing I couldn't get past either. But I started thinking that if this was the ruling I could simply go with EB w/NND: Ego Defense, and then whatever area/explosion I want to lay in and get the same effect. Of course then I'm relying on OCV instead of ECV, and that would be less appropriate to the power effect.

By this point I decided it was time to post the question.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
This is in the FAQ under Mental Powers. In a nutshell, yes, you can use Area Effect on Mental Powers, you target them using your OECV against the target hex's DECV of 3, and you don't need Line of Sight on everyone in the area in order for them to be affected; you only need Line of Sight to the target hex.

Thanks! I searched through Ego Attack & AOE in the FAQ and Erratta. I knew it was too common a question for it to not have been addressed somewhere.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
This is in the FAQ under Mental Powers. In a nutshell, yes, you can use Area Effect on Mental Powers, you target them using your OECV against the target hex's DECV of 3, and you don't need Line of Sight on everyone in the area in order for them to be affected; you only need Line of Sight to the target hex.
Ya, Im aware of this in practice from 4e days, but I dont agree with it. It hasnt come up yet in 5e, but my personal implementation as GM has been to force an ECV vs DECV roll vs each target -- ie Non Selective.

[Old Man]

I just see it as being consistant with other powers that have AE. The majority of them ignore DCV and just one roll for the target hex at DCV 3 is made.

Ego Attacks already target non standard ECV and Mental Defense, and pay for it. Requiring that it has Selective in addition to AE adds more dice rolling and a higher price tag for little return. Especially in this case as the Mentalist has no targetting control. If it were a psychic blast coming from the Mentalist, then she might be able to control who she attacked, but since the angst wave comes from another person, she has no control over who it hits.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Shadowpup
I just see it as being consistant with other powers that have AE. The majority of them ignore DCV and just one roll for the target hex at DCV 3 is made.

Ego Attacks already target non standard ECV and Mental Defense, and pay for it. Requiring that it has Selective in addition to AE adds more dice rolling and a higher price tag for little return. Especially in this case as the Mentalist has no targetting control. If it were a psychic blast coming from the Mentalist, then she might be able to control who she attacked, but since the angst wave comes from another person, she has no control over who it hits.
Non Selective is a limitation, not an advantage. It subtracts -1/4 from an AoE.

Most characters have little to no MD. AoE EGO Attacks vs ECV 3 are extremely effective. I know; I had a player abuse it a number of years ago. I looked at it and thought the same thing; its consitent with normal AoEs and isnt much different from an AoE EB AVLD (MD).....except its cheaper, and has LOS...uh wait a minute. I let the player have it and sure enough, it was abusive. Suddenly characters with a 25 EGO would get hit with it regardless and if they didnt have MD that was it. An entire opposing team could be staggered in one go. Goons were out of the question as a threat; he could knock them out in droves. I had to take special care to counteract it. I had to design encounters that occupied more space so I could spread the antagonists out farther than the Radius of the attack. Any villain group I wanted to be effective had to have MD pretty much across the board.

I had to pull the character eventually because it was just too abusive.

YMMV, but its a HEROism that Ive stumbled over before.