Ultimate Customisation

[Sean Waters]

One of the 'givens' of Hero is the way that certain mechanics work. I'm thinking specifically about defences, but there are severa other (mainly combat related) examples.

The system REQUIRES defences to be used in a certain way (they deduct from damage before applying to characteristics).

In a completely flexible system you COULD have a more Dnd damage system (damage comes straight off far higher characterisic bases)

Whilst there is a lot of info in the book about customising characters and campaigns there is nothing, or very little, about customising the system rules.

OK there may be good reason for this - if everyone played a different game, selling products might be hard, but perhaps there is room for a new Ultimate book - The Ultimate Customisation Guide.

UCG would present other ways of using the rules (defences get multiplied by 2 or 3 and are considered a buffer before stun/BODY is taken, perhaps), Stunning could be removed as a base rule and individual attacks could buy an advantage or adder to alow them to stun. Ditto knockback.

Anyway, nascent idea..ring anyone's bell?

[ghost-angel]

Might as well call it The Ultimate House Rule.

While I've nothing against Hosue Rules are customizing the Base Rules (heck, I encourage it sometimes) I think it's a bad idea for the System to contradict itself like this in an official manner.

Digital Hero is a good venue for this kind of thing and is as "official" as I'd like to see this idea get, personally.

[Sean Waters]

Oh I appreciate it will never happen :) but I'm just trying to make the point, in my roundabout and rambling way, that where we have set the base concepts of Hero is an arbitrary point and there is no good reason (in theory) why that base should not be built with smaller bits.

I'm not even saying 'good' or 'bad' - I'm just saying...it might strike a chord with some?

[OddHat]

There's no good reason to play Hero at all. We do it anyway.

I guess my feeling on this is that it's "how to build your own system", not "Hero" anything. I guess a book on that could be entertaining, to a very small audience. I wouldn't buy it, but I can see some appeal.

[Rapier]

Hmmm. While I can understand where you are coming from, a compilation of likely "Optional Rules" in DH might be more in line.

The number of House Rules out there are more numerous pictures of nekkid childrens at Michael Jackson's house. Where would you draw the line? It's one thing to talk about Bleeding, KnockDown, Ignoring END and all the rest. But to discuss the 800 different ways of "fixing" something like KAs that isn't broken in the first place (heh), that would take a book the size of Encyclopedia Brittanica.

I would think those would be best handled on a case by case basis in DH.

[Black Rose]

One thought that comes to mind with this is a guide that takes all the "standard" deviations from the base core rule set and shows you what happens with them. "This is Bleeding and here's what it does in general. Now, here's the pros and cons of it in general, and how it would affect each of our standard genres." "This is END, and here's what happens when you take it out of the game." I grant you, this might be better as a series for DH, but I'd still want to read it.

Heck, even if it wouldn't be popular as a published book, it could work as a HEROPlus book; they'd have to do layout, but wouldn't have to spend money on printing or distribution. For an e-book that covered each and every "optional rule" in the books to date and what their ramifications are, I'd pay $12-18.

[Lord Mhoram]

One thought that comes to mind with this is a guide that takes all the "standard" deviations from the base core rule set and shows you what happens with them. "This is Bleeding and here's what it does in general. Now, here's the pros and cons of it in general, and how it would affect each of our standard genres." "This is END, and here's what happens when you take it out of the game." I grant you, this might be better as a series for DH, but I'd still want to read it.
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Yeah. That would be cool. The essay on what allowing / requiring / disallowing advantages and limitations in the original "Spellbook" by Aaron Allston was one of the best things ever written. It went over every advantage and limitation and discussed what requring or disallowing them meant to your magic system.

[Harakani]

A list of optional, thought out, playtested rules. Complete with likely effects and pros and cons.
I'd buy that.
Harakani

[PhilFleischmann]

The system REQUIRES defences to be used in a certain way (they deduct from damage before applying to characteristics).

In a completely flexible system you COULD have a more Dnd damage system (damage comes straight off far higher characterisic bases)
You already can do this. Just have everyone sell back their Defenses, don't buy Defense Powers, and buy more BODY/STUN/DCV instead.

Any system customization you want can be done with campaign guidelines. Frex: if you want to eliminate END from the game, you just say "Everone gets 0 END on everything for free."

[hancock.tom]

I'm all about house rules, but I doubt that a book like this would sell very well. There is just so many free house rules available online, plus house rules are the sort of thing you would find 10 you hated for every one you liked.

Even though I doubt we'll ever see it in print, it would make a great E-Book or a website that linked to the site here, or even as just a compilation of links to different house rules discussions in the threads here.

Personally, I haven't found anything in HERO I really needed to house rule. Some things i've limited within the rules, but thats basically required to run a campaign.

[Doc Democracy]

I think that everyone is focussed on house rules here.

Personally I would like this book to be a discussion about how certain feels can be achieved by using or banning certain aspects of the game.

This wouldn't necessarily be fifteen ways to achieve a body jack power but discussion of how removing END from the game would affect the way the game played and guidance on what you might want to tinker with for particular genres.

Possibly this should be more of a chapter in the genre books - a bit more focus on the practicalities of setting up your game.

Hyperman in Zornwil's thread mentioned that there are few games where the GMs have to set the standards before the players can participate. It would be nice somewhere to have discussion of what you might want to consider and how to customise your game.

Doc

[prestidigitator]

I don't know. I think these things are already provided for (in large part) through use of other elements of the system. For example, if you want D&D-style armor, buy it as DCV CSLs rather than a, "Defense Power." That's more a genre element than a system element. Creative (even simple) combinations of Powers and Modifiers can do likewise for other parts of the system.

[Warp9]

My thoughts on customisation in general:

It is hard to disagree with the concept of having more options for my game.

However, IMO there is a downside to this flexibility.


If I get together with a bunch of people to play Shadowrun, I know pretty much what I am getting.

And, if I get together with a bunch of people to play MAGE, I know pretty much what I am getting.

And, if I get together with a bunch of people to play Amber Diceless RPG, I know pretty much what I am getting.

Yet, if I get together with a bunch of HERO players, things are not as clear.

At one point I moved to a new area and tried to get a face-to-face group together to play HERO. I found HERO gamers, but we had radically different visions of what type of games we wanted to play. In the end there was no point in forming a group with these people.

Obviously this type of difference is going to be an issue in a game as flexible as HERO, I'm just pointing out that increased customisation will make that situation worse. At least currently the game mechanics of HERO stay pretty much the same no matter what type of game you run.

If we move toward the point of Ultimate Customisation, will the statement "I like playing HERO" cease to have any real meaning?

[Vanguard00]

Not to disparage the tossing out of ideas in any way, but in essence that's what we do here. The rules as provided are discussed at length and in great detail (and at times ad nauseum). They already offer suggestions of use to a certain degree, and leave just about everything open for interpretation and adaption to personal needs and preferences. Options, variations, additions and subtractions are constantly offered on the boards for critique.

I think a book dedicated to what we as a community do anyway would be redundant.

It would, however, make an interesting e-book if authored by one or more actual players (and not offered as a canon sourcebook).

[Sean Waters]

Actually I'll tell you what i'd really like: The Tao of Hero - the underlying design philosophy - which would then give you a lot more insight when you start making those little tweaks...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Actually I'll tell you what i'd really like: The Tao of Hero - the underlying design philosophy - which would then give you a lot more insight when you start making those little tweaks...
Well, since Steve doesn't answer design philosophy questions, how are you planning to get that tome written?

[Black Rose]

Actually I'll tell you what i'd really like: The Tao of Hero - the underlying design philosophy - which would then give you a lot more insight when you start making those little tweaks...Well, since Steve doesn't answer design philosophy questions, how are you planning to get that tome written?
I'd like to see that, too. It is a real shame that Steve won't answer design philosophy questions, but I can understand. I'd hate getting stuck in a neverending spiral of justifying my choices to a group of people who have already proven by their words that they aren't in agreement with me. Sure, all of us agree with Steve on something, but I think that none of us agree with all of it, and I'm pretty sure there isn't a single page of actual crunchy rules we'd all agree to "own".

[prestidigitator]

Actually I'll tell you what i'd really like: The Tao of Hero - the underlying design philosophy - which would then give you a lot more insight when you start making those little tweaks...
Yeah. The Appendices go part-way on that, at least. If they were made just a little more thorough it could be a real help.

[zornwil]

I think if a system wants to call itself a toolkit, Sean's point/request is entirely valid, even a necessity. There's lots in 5/5ER that speaks to specific options and situational rules, and a bit (as in prior editions) on some system metarules to guide the reader, but not much to indicate how one might rework defense and attack modes (which is the real important question behind "what if we merge PD and ED"), or other fundamental issues. There's also virtually no advice on how to create a new game that may not look like HERO but is fully rationalized on/by it. These should be features.

[prestidigitator]

I suppose a text on game analysis--which could certainly be used for game design, but could also be used for other things--might be nice. There are plenty of analyses out there of die-rolling methods, plot structures, character archetypes, etc. Why not one about the different methods of handling mechanics; strengths, weaknesses, flavors, statistical breakdowns, applicability by genre, and things like that.

For example, how about bleeding rules in general. What kind of impact does ongoing damage have on flow of play? If it is only just before death? If it hinders a character's actions? If it is fixable with skills and/or resources? If it is, "realistic," or highly abstracted? Does it tend to frustrate players? Is it such a dramatic ingredient that it inspires them?

Another one: how does time scale influence games? How do games with second-by-second action breakdowns compare to those with highly trimmed down action sequences? How key is it to have combat time match up with out-of-combat time? Does it change things much to have game-mechanic units (such as Phases, Turns, Rounds, or whatever) match game-time units (seconds, minutes, hours in the gaming world) vs. being of variable length?

I'd be mildly interested in such a work. To buy? Maybe. I'm not sure. I guess it would depend upon the implementation. I certainly don't think it should be specific to the Hero System.