Need Some Help with power generation

[mr_nau]

I was just recently introduced to the Hero System by picking up a used copy of 4th Ed. and some supplemental material, notably Ultimate Martial Artist. However, before this occured, my friends and I were having a discussion of what we would be as heroes in a modern distopia, where the dollar had fallen and a depression worse than the "Great Depression" had descended upon the US. Then I picked up said Hero System material and thought, what if I used the Hero System to model our described heroes, and off I forged, still yet a newb, and then I ran into problems. See, me and several of my friends do martial arts, and well, ultimate martial artist is great for representing basic techniques, but some of the more complex techniques, weapons techniques in particular, I was a bit confused on how to emulate them.

For example, Jow Ga has 18 weapons forms, but each of those weapons forms is based on basic techniques, and so they share very similar abilities. Yet, some of the shared abilities are difficult to mimic to my yet unaccoustmed mind. For example, a great attack to clear out an area would be a spinning spear (AOE radius) only affects one target (representing the fact that once some one is actually hit, a normal human does not have the strength to continue the attack) This attack can also be done by a sword, a chain whip, a three section staff, but each of the weapons have different statistics. Also, this is a heroic setting so weapons are bought with money. The power merely represents techniques that can be applied to weapons. (A whirling fist isn't nearly as effective as a spear, that whole physics thing).

I was initially thinking a cheap multipower, but I wasn't sure about how to set that up to represent the fact that it would be affected depending on which weapons would be used... should it be 2D6 HKA Only does as much as weapon normally does, and if I take that limitation does that mean I can't add the STR bonus? But then how does that work when I'm using a Chiang, does the +1 OCV still take effect as well as the stretching, but the 1D6+1 HKA displaces the 2D6 HKA?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'd like it to be fairly realistic, as that was the idea we had for the game in the first place, but the cost to add advantages directly to martial arts techniques was very cost inefficient. Thank you very much for your assistance.

[Lord Liaden]

By my reading of what you want to do to clear an area, I think you'd be best served by buying Area Effect large enough to cover the maximum damage of any weapon your character will be using as a Naked Advantage (q.v.) possessed by the character rather than the weapon, representing his skill at doing this with any appropriate weapon. You could apply a Custom Limitation to it, "Effect Stops After First Target in Path Damaged," which I would suggest as -1/2. You'd have to declare where your attack was starting from in a 180 degree arc around you, and which direction (left of right) it moves from that point.

I'm sure someone else will be along with other suggestions. Don't be shy about asking for more help - we were all newbies once. :)

[Doug Limmer]

I'm trying to understand exactly what you want, but if it only ever affects one person, is it really Area of Effect at all? What do you want the end result of using the ability to be?

[Pattern Ghost]

I think AOE would work. The attack's supposed to clear the area, so an AOE would make people Dive For Cover unless they wanted to get tagged.

[mr_nau]

Lord Lianden, Thanks for the suggestions.

Doug, the reason it would be Area of Effect is because the power is an attempt to clear an area around the character, however, if someone happens to be hit by the attack, the attack stops. Basically imagine some one with a sword or spear whirling it around their body. A sane normal person would want to get out of the way, but if they failed to do so, the attack would stop at them because a normal human whirling something around their body, doesn't have the strength to completely slice through another body.

Now for a further question, this whirling technique is only one of many of the basic weapon syles, others might include, an AOE selective attack (this represents a martial artist being able to strike at targets all around him), an Auto-Fire attack (rapid attacks to a single target, this is more representative of a dual weapon style, but would also work for rapid jabs using a staff or spear), and perhaps either an armor piercing or penatrating attack, ( a precise attack ). I was examining the information in the Ultimate Marital Arts and initially I wanted to buy the advantages to the martial arts techniques, but the cost was a bit prohibitive for a realistic game, especially since neither me, nor my friends are 150 point heroes, but we can still do a fair amount of this, and still do other things.

To fix this, I was thinking a Multipower for weapons, but was a bit confused on how to construct it fully. I decided that a 2D6 HKA would cover any weapon I would want to use (the highest being a chiang at 1D6+1), the next part was reduced Endurance 0, then OAF (which is debatable since it is to be used with the martial arts the character is trained with. However, since it is fairly difficult to walk into combat completely loaded with chinese weapons... any way, i was thinking OAF or OIF depending). Then a small limitation suggested by the UMA, can't do more damage than the weapon would normally do (-1/4). So here's the base set up with OIF
26 Real Points 45 Active points (30 + .5 for 0 END) Kung Fu Weapons.

All the slots would be fixed slots, but this is where I'm stuck, I know that all the powers are confined by the initial constraints, But if I do the AOE selective 1D6+1 HKA that's 31 points after everything involved. Any suggestions on how to go about setting up the multipower. I'm a little bit confused as to where I'm limited, by the Active Points of the Multipower control, or the real points of the multipower control. Once again any suggestions would be appreciated.

mn

[Pattern Ghost]

Active Points for the number of powers you can cram in.

Real Points for what you pay.

For a basic attacks only multi, you probably want to use Ultra slots, which means that you have to allocate all of the AP of that slot against the reserve total. You don't have to use the slot at full power, however. You can also run a couple of small ultra slots at a time, just as long as you don't exceed the AP limits.

Example:

20 Multipower: Martial Strikes, Restrainable (-1/2)
u1 6d6 Hand Attack, Restrainable (-1/2), HTH (-1/2)
u1 4d6 Hand Attack, Autofire (+1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), HTH (-1/2)
u1 4d6 Hand Attack, x1.5KB (+1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), HTH (-1/2)

(Restrainable sucks so buying some STR outside the multi, just for Grabs, Escapes, and Disarms or something would be a good idea. Of course, this has nothing to do with what you're trying to do...)

Ok, so this multi has a 30 AP Reserve. Each slot is 30 AP. Since you have to allocate the whole slot against the reserve, you'd have to use the whole reserve. However, the Restrainable limit goes against the Reserve cost, making it 20, and the Restrainable (since it's on the reserve) also applies to all the slots, along with their limitations, making them cost 1 point. 30 AP divided by 2, for 15, x .1 = 1.5, round in your favor to 1. The advantages of the slots can't put them past the 30 AP in the reserve, though.

Hope that helps.

[Doug Limmer]

To reiterate something which didn't show up in Pattern Ghost's example (but he did talk about it in the post), the slots don't have to use the entire Multipower pool.

For instance, if you want the Autofire punch to be wimpier, you could make it 3d6 HTH, Autofire for only 22 AP (11 Real after limitations). [It would still cost the same in character points for the Multipower slot, though.]

Or, more to your point, you could have a 31 point multipower pool, and fit in your 1d6+1 AOE Selective attack, and just not use the full Multipower pool for the other attacks.

Also, if you can use these attacks with a variety of weapons, it's typical in Hero System books to buy them as OIF weapon of opportunity (-1/2) instead of OAF, since you don't have to pick up the same weapon you dropped, or left behind, or got destroyed, or what have you. If you (and your GM, if that's not you) feel that OAF fits the powers better, though, nothing stops you from using it.

[Fur Face]

Hey mr_nau,

I know you want to keep your point totals low so you can play at a realisitic level, but you may find it difficult to buy the characteristics (especially DEX & SPD), martial arts, skill levels, and a special techniques multipower at just 150 points. I would suggest adding another 50 points, just to make things easier.

Just my 2 cents. :)

[mr_nau]

fur face,

Thanks for your suggestion. It prompted a discussion amongst my friends and I about realism and point representation. We sort of decided that point totals don't necessarily indicate a level of realism. For example, my Sifu, I would consider to be a fairly high point character, Masters in EE, Been doing Martial Arts now for 40 odd years and is still fast as a whip, not supper strong, but he knows how to use it. Incredible accuracy and endurance. Also owns and runs/cooks at a Chinese resturant. The number of skills to represent this realistic person would I think be very high, mostly due to the vast number of skills. Most of them aren't at a particularly high level, but they are more than 8- (slightly less than 50%). So we were discussing conventions on that front and decided that realistic limits on characteristics were okay, and that a 250 point character could easily be realistic if powers and abilities were watched carefully. It would be, obviously, very important to the GM and players to want to constrict those abilities to go with the feel. Since this is a modern type of game, our access to resistant defenses is very low, making KAs very lethal, and fighting multiple opponents is very dangerous, especially if they have a gun and you don't. Thank you very much for the suggestion once again.

Oh, and also, I looked at some sample characters from the genre pdf file, which gave me a better idea of what levels realistic characters were at, at least as far as combat values.

mn

[Fur Face]

Congratulations mr_nau! You and your friends have the discovered one of the primary tennets of Hero: point limitations don't necessarily mean more realistic, its all in how you use them! :)

P.S. Your Sifu sounds like he could be close to 600 points! :eek: