What is the difference between Champions and Champions Universe?

[xirr2000]

These books seem awfully similar and I must say I was a bit disappointed to purchase Champions Universe and find it lacking any listing for the Champions. I can only assume their stats and history/backgrounds are in the other book. Is that where Mechanon is listed as well? Would have thought he was in the villains book, but I didn't see him there. Anyone else feel its a bit of a hosing to have to buy several books totalling over $100 to get all this info that was once listed in one book? Dont get me wrong, I do appreciate all the work that went into the books I have so far, but I still feel like I'm getting hosed over a little bit.

Ok, done complaining for the day......

[Supreme Serpent]

Champions is a generic genre book covering the Superheroes genre using HERO rules. It is similar to Fantasy Hero or Star Hero in that regard, but "Superhero Hero" would sound weird. While it may include character examples that fit in with the "Champions Universe", it is meant more as a guide to superhero games in general.

Champions Universe is information on a particular setting - an example campaign universe. It is similar in that way to books like Valdorian Age, Terran Empire and the like.

As far as "all this used to be in one book" - well, my own problems with 5th Ed aside, the info you get from the core rulebook, Champions, and Champions Universe has NEVER been "all in one book". Pre-fourth ed, there was never even an actual attempt to explain a "Champions Universe", and when they did in fourth ed, it was a seperate book.

Edit - keep in mind you don't need any of these extra books to play a supers game! Champions and Champions Universe simply do some of the work for you. If you don't mind (or would prefer) making up a world from scratch, and you and your players have a good grasp on superheroes, then there's no compelling reason to get them. I bought Champions b/c I love super genre books. I don't have Champions Universe, because unless and until I'm playing in a pure 5th ed CU game, I have no need for it.

[xirr2000]

I'm curious as to what kind of info is in Champions that is not in CU that would make it worth purchasing? I scanned it briefly in the store and it seemed to rehash a lot of the info in CU, which made me think it would not be a very useful addition to my little Hero Games library.

[Sketchpad]

I'm curious as to what kind of info is in Champions that is not in CU that would make it worth purchasing? I scanned it briefly in the store and it seemed to rehash a lot of the info in CU, which made me think it would not be a very useful addition to my little Hero Games library.
Besides giving you a few characters and a sample adventure, the Champions book is a treatment on the superhero genre. For a review, check here (http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=review&reviewid=2011475). I think it's a worth-while book to own if you plan on running supers. Aaron Allston is by far one of the most respected authors on the subjects of supers and this book doesn't disappoint :) Doesn't really rehash much from CU (especially since CU came after it), but it does give a lot of insight.

[assault]

Perhaps you could explain the difference by saying that Champions Universe outlines a particular superheroic setting and style of game, while Champions outlines the range of superheroic settings and game styles it is possible to play.

Yes, there is a small amount of material about the Champions Universe in Champions, but it is not repeated in Champions Universe.

I am unlikely to ever exactly use the Champions Universe, but I found that there was enough stuff worth lifting or taking inspiration from to make it worth buying. On the other hand, Champions is one of the books in my regular reference pile.

[Sketchpad]

On the other hand, Champions is one of the books in my regular reference pile.

I agree 100%