Building the Animated Justice League [Archive] - HERO Games Discussion Boards

Pattern Ghost

May 22nd, '03, 12:40 PM

OK, I've gotten caught up on the JLA now that Cartoon Network has them on week nights. Aside from some really good stuff in the scripting, I've noticed...these are Champions JLA characters!

Seriously:

Nobody has an absolute defense, even Supes.
Damage from energy attacks behaves differently, i.e., some characters obviously have lower ED than PD.
Characters routinely take knockback.
The Flash blows his DEX rolls --- often.
Area Effect attacks can take out the speedster.
Surprise attacks can take out Bats.
Etc... Basically, all of the combats I've seen so far can be gameable, and on not a ton of points.

So, I'm thinking, let's build them. There's probably a thread somewhere on this board or the old one on building the animated JLA, but I'm starting this one for two reasons:

1. The search function requires four characters, making searching for "JLA" a pain. And I didn't feel like looking for "animated," or other likely suspects b/c the last two times I tried to find a thread by guessing related terms were a waste. I'm probably just not good at it.

2. I am less interested in particular builds -- though that's welcome -- than I am in listing what we've seen the characters doing on the show. For example, I don't care if your Flash has a DEX of 23 or 42, I just want to know if you think Hawkgirl has more or less DEX than he does, etc. IOW, talking about numbers is cool, but talking about relative power levels is preferred. (At least to me. I wouldn't dare suggest a thread stay on topic. That way lies madness...)

OK, here are a few of my observations:

General:

Characters generally have lower EDs, especially the Bricks.
Resistant defenses are uncommon; we only see Supes actually bouncing bullets off his body, and GL using his Force Field or Force Walls -- often shielding the whole team with the latter. WW deflects, Bats avoids, Flash avoids, and I haven't caught MM or Hawkgirl getting smacked by gunfire. I'm using gunfire as the baseline b/c we can all agree bullets are killing attacks, while energy beams can be arguable.
Most of the characters interact with everything/everyone else at relatively normal speed. The only characters who get a huge margin of extra actions seem to be the Flash (can be explained with multiple move bys/passing strikes though) and Manhunter's trick of popping up behind someone and rapidly switching back and forth between desolid and solid (can be simulated with powers though.) Mostly, it takes some time and effort to go through hordes of lower level threats than you'd expect compared to comic appearances of the same characters.
Nobody's damage is off the scale, except maybe Hawkgirl's mace. I don't think even Supe's punches can drop someone as fast, though the mace may have extra KB from the energy.
None of the characters are particularly imaginative with their powers. GL is the classic example, here. That should make some write ups much simpler.
Although the JLA doesn't seem to actually kill anyone, most of them don't hesitate to take actions that can be fatal to even normals. Example is shooting down airplanes. Most of the time, Supes or someone will catch a falling aircraft, but I get the feeling it's more to protect civilians. Currently, Savage Time story arc is playing, and Supes and Hawkgirl have been shooting down German planes with abandon. I doubt if many of the JLA in this version have a strong CVK. Hawkgirl seems to pretty much lack one altogether, and dishes out massive damage without hesistation.

Superman

We'll start with a classic here. He's MUCH less powerful than the comics version. You don't even need to cheese out with characteristics in an EC to get him in under a reasonable point cost. He also seems to lack a few of his more off the wall powers, but on the other hand, he tends to remember he has the powers he exhibits on the show. He's more consistant that way. I LIKE the JLA animated version of Supes.

He's the strongest JLA member, but WW isn't too far behind. He can probably lift a LOT more than Wondy, putting him about ten to fifteen STR ahead of her, though he doesn't seem to dish out significantly more damage than she does.
He's got heat vision. He usually reserves it for machines, vehicles, and really tough opponents. I'd build it as a laser, big KA, maybe Pen. or AP, with no KB (haven't seen it knock anything back yet, looks more like it cuts) and Beam limits.
Cold breath? I'm pretty sure I saw him freeze something with his breath on at least one episode, but I can't remember which one. It may have been the trial one. Doesn't seem to do it much.
Superspeed...doesn't seem to have it.
Senses. He's not shown using his gazillion senses much, and doesn't seem especially hard to surprise. Maybe the writers are just not putting him in situations where he needs them often, but maybe he doesn't have them? Failing any examples, I'd just give him some overall PER levels and move on.
Flight. He seems to have decent flight speed, enough to overtake vehicles.
Defense. He seems to be able to shrug off gunfire, and to take a "campaign" average hit with no damage, but sometimes knockback, but he gets con-stunned (or just Stunned for folks who like the official term better) fairly regularly. Anything big and scary-looking (above average damage) seems capable of stunning him. Energy attacks tend to do more damage or look like they are on average. I'd set his PD higher than ED.
Personality. He seems to be pretty serious about his duties, but to have a sense of humor. He's definately got the boy scout reputation and attitude, as seen when he tries to get rough interrogating Copperhead, which leaves him asking "How does Batman do it?" He just won't cross the line and the villains know it. On the other hand, he had little problem telling Hawkgirl to cut loose on the Nazi fighter planes and destroying quite a few himself (though they did aime for mostly wings and other non-cockpit areas, people could have died), so he's probably not got an absolute code. I can't see this version wandering off into space if a few Nazis happen to fall to their deaths, even though the cartoon tends to gloss over those type of consequences most of the time.
Skills. He seems to have decent leadership skills, and probably journalistic skills. He doesn't seem to have much Kryptonian super science background though. For combat, he probably has levels with hand to hand, but no MA training.
DEX/SPD: He seems to be a little slower to react than Hawkgirl (who's impulsive, though) and Wonder Woman. He seems very agile, but not more so than Bats, WW, or Hawkgirl. He's probably a little more agile than Flash or GL. His SPD doesn't seem to be anything outstanding. For example, when he gets knocked back then shakes it off, I get the definate impression that he's lost a phase of action, and he doesn't sem to "make up for it" very quickly, unlike the Flash, who tends to get up pretty quick after a non-stunning fall and zip off.

Batman

Ok, next up, the Batman! He's pretty straightforward, really. Honestly. Just leave the numbers out of it. =)

Skills: He's got all of his Detective skills, as well as his Science and Engineering skills. The JLA Bats is the guy who invented all the cool toys, not the guy who bought all the cool toys. He's the team go-to guy for pretty much any skill. For example, he stayed at the lab in the Metamorpho episode to figure out how to take out the big goop monster by analyzing some of the mutagen. He's also got decent PRE-based skills outside of intimidation. In the one where Luthor assembles the "Injustice Society" crew, he gets Solomon Grundy to pound on the Ultra Humanite, seduces Cheetah (at least a little, he definately plays her), and bribes the Ultra Humanite. (Very cool! May as well put that Wayne fortune to use...this post brought to you by a grant from the Ultra Humanite...)
Gadgets: Most of the time the team uses the JLA planes, but I've seen the Bat plane. He likes to use his Batarangs a lot, including exploding ones. I haven't seen him use a whole lot of other things from his belt, other than for evidence gathering. The utility belt being booby-trapped is a good gimmick.
Combat ability: Definately a great MA, with tons of Stealth, including the "Batman teleport" ability, but his defenses aren't that high. He seems to lack resistant defenses but to have a great dodge and dive for cover. He also gets sucker punched more often than you'd expect. His damage level seems to be pretty far below most of the team, except Flash. He's not really the best guy in a straight brawl with supers, but let him sneak around, and he gets dangerous. Definately seems to fall into the let him plan and he gets real dangerous mode. Basically, he's got brawn, but everyone fears his brain more. As it should be.
Personality: Definately grim, though he does seem to have a sense of humor. He also cares a lot more for his teammates than he wants to let on. He was pretty freaked out in the Gorilla City episode when he thought WW had bought it, then played it off. His ethics seem to lead him to non-lethal solutions, but non-lethal, doesn't mean non-painful, either.
Overall, I'd load him up with skills, but not go too far into building exotic MA special abilities. Just use maneuvers with the calculated damage.

Wonder Woman

Mmm...Wonder Woman! Amazonian Babe!

Strength. Seems a bit lower than Supes. She grunts when she throws a truck, probably in the 2-3 ton range, but she tosses it pretty far. (Savage Time) She's also been able to stop things like huge missles with tons of thrust behind them (Gorilla City episode). Overall, pretty decent.
Defenses. Seems to have a high durability, but doesn't show much in the way of resistant defenses. She has the ultimate Missle Deflect roll, though.
Speed/DEX. She seems fast and agile. Probably has an edge on Supes in this department.
The Lasso: What's up with the Lasso? Seems to have lost its umph. Has anyone seen the truth power yet? Or the "you can't remove it" power?
Other Powers: Aside from Flight , she doesn't seem to have any other powers, just the bracers and lasso.
Skills. I'd definately give her some MA maneuvers. Not sure what else to give her, as she seems pretty naive in general Probably some cultural skills for being an Amazon.

Hawkgirl

Wings and a BIG mace...

Brick-ness: Hawkgirl definately falls into the brick range for STR and durability. I'd say she's not nearly as strong as WW, but definately in brick-land on STR, and pretty durable. She was run over by a WWII fighter on last night's episode and it didn't slow her down much at all.
That Mace...OK, the mace is pretty potent. I'd say it's one of the biggest, if not the biggest, attacks in the show. She's smacked down the energy blast from a planet-busting gun in the War World show, and broken more stuff than any two of her teammates combined. I've yet to see her hit a character with the mace w/out doing a good amount of knockback. In fact, although the energy/electric sparks are just visual shorthand for "big bad weapon," I'd say it probably has extra knockback.
Fighting Prowess. I'd say she has a movement-based martial art. He fighting style just screams "charge" and "passing strike" to me. I'd give her a mix of movement based MA maneuvers and some standards like martial block and martial dodge.
Skills: I get the impression she's the Thangarian cop version of Hawkgirl. I'd say she has some police skills, but not at a high level. She strikes me as more of the beat a confession out type than a detective work type. She did make a comment on her world being very warlike on one episode, so being a law enforcement officer is probably somewhat different there.
Flight. Pretty cut and dry. Doesn't seem to outpace anyone else who flies. Might be somewhere between Supes and WW in flight speed. Might write her up as faster since that's her schtick, though.
Personality: She's definately got a "likes to hit things with mace" psych lim. Very direct. Love her reparte with Flash. She's sort of rough and tumble, can be "one of the guys" with the best of bad barracks humor.

Green Lantern

Power ring! VPP or Multi? Really, I think you could do it as an OIF multipower, b/c he doesn't do much with the ring. He's got FF/Fly mode. EB mode. FW mode. He seems to drop the personal FF when he's doing FW/Entangles or EBs. So, maybe a multi with a big enough pool to run a couple small powers and a big one at lower power, or just one big power.
Defenses: Aside from force field constructs, GL doesn't seem to really have the associated boost to defenses the ring's supposed to grant. I'd say he's got a decent defense for a "normal" and a decent CON, though.
Skills. He's a marine. Seems like a capable hand to hand fighter w/out the ring, though I'd not give extra DCs to him. He's probably got a slew of military skills he never shows much on the show, like weapon and transport familiarties, navigation (land, maybe sea), tactics, breakfall, climbing, survival, paramedics, a little extra running, etc.
Personality: Seems to have a stick jammed up his uniform sometimes. Extremely committed to duty, seems to be a bit of a perfectionist. Definatley a tough customer with ring or without. Lots of will power of course. Pretty rock stupid in the trial episode, IMO. Might have some sort of awe of authority type lim.

The Flash

Powers: He runs. Fast. Classic running multi with over walls and over water variants. I've seen him do the wind funnel trick at least once (at Etrigan's direction) and he's done an arm windmill to blow away gases on at least two shows I've seen. So, I'd toss those into a multi with the running. Offensively, I've seen him do what looks like an autofire hand attack, running circles around someone and punching them repeatedly (Ares on Paradise Island episode) and lots and lots of multiple move bys and passing disarms on mooks. He was able to carry the good gorilla on the Grodd episode, and I think the weight the ape quoted would have clocked him in around a 20 STR to carry at full speed. Fair non-resistant defenses, but he stuns himself a lot from tripping, usually over some debris thrown up in front of him. SPD would be pretty fast, but not obscene b/c everyone else is pretty modest in that area. Dex would probably be less than say Hawkgirl or Bats, but still moderately high. He blows too many DEX rolls to put him into Spidey range though.
Skills: Well, seduction isn't one. =) Actually, I've never seen him use a skill other than the ability to tick off his teammates or get into trouble. Of course, there's the "I outsmarted a super genius!" Priceless.
Personality: Class clown all the way. Impulsive to the max. The other team members should probably put him in a dual harness with Hawkgirl to get them both on leashes. But that'd annoy Hawkgirl to no end...

Martian Manhunter

What can you say? He's big, he's green, and the team already has two heavy bricks and a briquette. Poor guy gets to be the whipping boy in a lot of episodes.

Brick-ness: Honestly, I can't tell. He's a LOT less bricky than in the comics. He's pretty bricky when he gets denser. When he's not dense, he's been clocked on several occasions by characters that really aren't at the same strength level as he is in the comics. I'd make him maybe a little sronger than Hawkgirl or a little less, depending. Probably go for something in the 40ish to 50ish range, plus his DI.
Powers: Which ones doesn't he have? He's got a HUGE Mindscan, some Telepathy, but perhaps not a great Ego, considering how soundly he was trashed by Morgana. The Telepathy seems to be a secondary thing to his Martian body control powers. Speaking of which: I've seen him fly, be desolid, and get denser. Offhand, I can't think of any other powers shown, though he can do quite a bit with that combo.
Personality: He's pretty depressing. The whole last member of his race thing and all. Other than that, he's pretty typically heroic with good teamwork.
Skills: I'm not sure he's been shown to have any, really? Any ideas there are welcome.

Well, there's a rough start. I'm sure there are more things to add to each character, so let's see what we've seen them do on the show, at least once, twice is better.

Stargazer

May 22nd, '03, 01:47 PM

wow thats a pretty good summary of the animated JLA..

a few pointers tho ( i may be wrong ..havent seen the show in a while....correct if im wrong)
flash should have high dex...and a truck load of unluck....i think that the guy has a great dex/agility but is extremely unlucky.....defnetly higher then bats or gl...and proly Hawk girl and MM...but lower then supes and WW
Str wise... the gorilla was 400lbs...but considering the speed Flash goes, and the probanle weight training he gets for being a superhero...id say he is around the 16/18 range max.... proly lower ..he proly pushed to lift the gorrila and ran real fast before dropping him...

Bats ...max human char. lotsa of martial moves and CSL ( the 8pters)...and remeber when hes with the JLA, he takes on lot more powerful ppl the he does in gotham...
hes of course the brain of the JLA, cause none of them (except maybe MM) could open a pepsi bottle without him...
(u know what i mean)

for the rest i completly agree with u...altho i think i saw WW once use her lasso and it did have some power to it..but im not to sure about that one...

all in all great sum up PG :)

Pattern Ghost

May 22nd, '03, 02:07 PM

Dex + lots of Unluck works too for Flash. Good idea.

On his STR, if the Gorilla is 400 lbs, that'd be near the max lift for a 15. That's lift and stagger a bit. Although he kind of huffed and puffed, he wasn't really that put out by carrying him at full speed. I wouldn't allow a push in that situation, myself, too extended. 18's good, but I don't like rolling a half die, so I went up a little. Still, putting him at 20 is pretty much where I'd put Bats, and I don't think he's as strong...and this is why I'm trying to avoid the numbers up front. :D

Stargazer

May 22nd, '03, 02:13 PM

agreed:D

JmOz

May 22nd, '03, 02:26 PM

MM has also done the shape change into the bad guy routine a few times, I would (assuming Supes at Str 75) put MM at 30, with a Desolid/Density Increase/Shape Change MP sitting at 50 points (40 point powers w/ Red end 1/2)

GL I would break out the classic Flight/FF EC then put the rest of the powers into a MP (You will need to buy LS twice, once outside of the MP one inside, linked with a FW/TK)

I would actually SERIOUSLY consider just making him with a TK EC

Pattern Ghost

May 22nd, '03, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by JmOz
MM has also done the shape change into the bad guy routine a few times...

Do'h! I totally forgot the shapeshift when I typed it all up.

Pattern Ghost

May 22nd, '03, 02:48 PM

GL seems like he has trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time in regards to ring usage, so I suggested the Multi over the EC. Either one works, though.

TheEmerged

May 22nd, '03, 03:37 PM

RE: Supes/Wondie STR & Damage. Superman is considerably stronger -- however, their damage is pretty close. Why? Martial arts, of course. Supes is throwing raw 75 STR 15d6 punches around. Wondie is probably hovering around 55-60 STR but is probably using Martial/Fast Strikes with +2d6 damage.

RE: J'onn. I haven't seen all the episodes, but based on the ones I've seen they've de-brickified him pretty severely -- I haven't seen anything to suggest a higher STR score than 35.

RE: Hawkgirl. #1, unless you've seen her picking up large weights (and I haven't) her damage in combat is probably a function of martial arts and that mace than actual strength.

ShinDangaioh

May 22nd, '03, 03:56 PM

Hawkgirl did beat up a group of GL's without the mace. She got some pretty good KB on a few of them with a single punch.

Which brings us to the insane levels of energy abosrtion that Jon had to use against the uberManhunter after merging with the Central Power Battery

Morningstar

May 22nd, '03, 06:49 PM

I would definitely give Superman, WW, and MM a much larger PD than ED. It seems almost a nightly occurrence that one of them goes down to an electricity based attack. Either that or they just all have 2X stun vs. Electricity.

The whole team seems to have resistant defences as none of them are ever seriously injured by getting smashed into and through walls.

One thing for sure is the Morgan LeFey of the show has a lot of points, since she could handle the whole team at once.

Insaniac99

May 22nd, '03, 07:35 PM

ok, i think the MM has eye beams, i though i saw him use those, may be mistaken though,

and the savage time bit, it think that figures in the time of war, you do what you have to do, and we already know they would die anyway if Vandal Savage didn't change history.

Smeazel

May 22nd, '03, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost
Superspeed...doesn't seem to have it.

Hm... I could swear Superman seemed to use Superspeed (hm, that's a bit of a tongue-twister) briefly in an episode they reran recently... but I don't remember which episode, or what he used it for...

Pattern Ghost

May 22nd, '03, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by Morningstar

The whole team seems to have resistant defences as none of them are ever seriously injured by getting smashed into and through walls.

I'm wondering what your logic is. I'd assume walls did normal damage for the most part.

Morningstar

May 22nd, '03, 11:22 PM

Resistant was the wrong word. Considerable was what I was looking for. :eek:

Prometheus

May 22nd, '03, 11:35 PM

Just chiming in with a few observations.

Flash: Seems to have some kind of superspeed disassembly power. Used it on the mind control band in the Gorilla episode and at the very beginning of the Earth 2 episode (he disassembles part of the giant robot's foot).

Hawkgirl: Has at least some superhuman lifting STR (as opposed to just straight DC's). In one Savage Time episode she carries at least three wounded soldiers while flying without really breaking a sweat, and she tosses around a number of aliens in Blackest Night. She also seems fairly graceful in the air- she generally dodges attacks in flight, while Supes soaks them up.

Wonder Woman: It's implied that she uses the power of her magic lasso to interrogate a German soldier in Savage Time. However, both Faust and Hades seem able to escape from the lasso without too great an effort. The resistant defense issue is a little hazy. She deflects (and reflects on some occassions) bullets and energy beams, but exposes herself to fire from the War Wheels. Maybe it was an physical EB.

Batman: Overall skills might be in order, since he seems capable of holding his own in a fight and able to pull off amazing feats of skill. Bats also seems very capable of using his environment and maneuvering for the advantage. A small "Improv Pool" might be good for simulating a hall mirror that reflects energy attacks (Fury) or a mouthful of water that shorts out an electrical system (Injustice For All). Maybe an extra point of SPD to capitalize on combat maneuver combos and set ups.

Superman: Like most everyone has said, he seems to have a great big resistant PD, but with an unspectacular ED. He does wince and grunt alot though- maybe a great CON and STUN with just a "good" PD. Supes' heat vision bounced off a War Wheel (with presumably Hardened Def), while Hawkgirl's mace torn into it. Both ripped apart planes though. Sounds like a medium RKA with AP vs. a plain ol' big Damage Class attack.

G.L.: Looks and acts like a pretty straightforward energy projector. Buying powers through a focus just means he has points left over for his US Marine Corps training.

Martian Manhunter: Tricky. J'onn uses his powers in often subtle ways. He definitely has some desolid tricks, like knocking an opponent out or disarming them by phasing through them. He avoids damage most of the time, but seems to be able to take at least a decent hit. On the one hand, we never see him lift anything that weighs much- on the other, he does a move through on a giant nazi plane, attacks a plane propeller first, and is able to withstand afterburner thrust from a jet engine while ripping it off a plane. Maybe we'll see more come July.

Pattern Ghost

May 22nd, '03, 11:51 PM

I kind of thought she was implying a Bats style intimidation in Savage Time, but perhaps. The perps don't just seize up though like in the comics.

Looking forward to the next season. I still have a few episodes to catch from season one, too.

Trebuchet

May 23rd, '03, 03:29 AM

In The Savage Time Superman and Wonder Woman killed German soldiers and pilots without a doubt. (Superman flew lengthwise through an Me-109 and came out covered in flames; he probably passed through the pilot too. In any case the plane exploded without a parachute being seen.) So apparently did GL when his ring ran out of juice and he was issued an M1 Garand rifle.

I wouldn't put this down to no CvK; I'd say it is more a matter of war meaning different rules apply. Millions of soldiers during WWII had never killed anyone before entering the service, but did so regularly in combat. Then after the war they never killed again.

Pattern Ghost

May 23rd, '03, 05:20 AM

Here's a question: Has anyone seen Supes use his X-Ray vision yet?

Arkham

May 23rd, '03, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost
Here's a question: Has anyone seen Supes use his X-Ray vision yet?

Yup in the one where Luthor assembles the "Injustice Society" crew, he scans a level of the Watchtower for a bomb with his X-ray vision.

Kevin Scrivner

May 23rd, '03, 06:19 PM

Well, give Superman a "glass jaw" disadvantage. Even though he should be the most powerful member of the team, he's always getting his butt whooped. He's forgetful, too. In the pilot, he allowed himself to be encased in alien concrete along with the other captured heroes. Once Batman showed up with a blowtorch and freed one of his teammates Supes suddenly recalled his heat ray vision and burned himself loose. D'oh!

After you've built all the characters, give Batman an extra 50 points to play with. He's always super competent even though he's the member who SHOULD be getting his butt whooped.

TheEmerged

May 23rd, '03, 06:29 PM

That's just the old "SuperBrent" thing: in order to get the rest of the JLA into the plot, you usually have to take Superman out.

ShinDangaioh

May 23rd, '03, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
Well, give Superman a "glass jaw" disadvantage. Even though he should be the most powerful member of the team, he's always getting his butt whooped. He's forgetful, too. In the pilot, he allowed himself to be encased in alien concrete along with the other captured heroes. Once Batman showed up with a blowtorch and freed one of his teammates Supes suddenly recalled his heat ray vision and burned himself loose. D'oh!
Actually. Superman had to wait while the yellow sunlight recharged his powers. It is not the first time he has lost his powers due to lack of sunlight. His vision powers are the first powers to go.

Ndreare

May 23rd, '03, 08:49 PM

This is easly the best topic I have ever read on these boards thank you Pattern Ghost for starting it.

Killer Shrike

May 23rd, '03, 11:16 PM

Ive read some sites collecting comments from the creators of the show here and there. A few points:

Supes is supposed to be in a demoralized state for some reason I dont recall. Thats why he formed the JLA, bcs he just wasnt up to his usual levels of All Is Brickness. He's kind of burnt out basically, which is also why he doesnt talk much and is less likely to drive the boat so to speak. He basically relys on Bats decision making for the most part.

Hawkgirl was deliberately aggro'd up to make her distinct from WW and to avoid having 2 naive outsiders as the only female reps on the team. The alternate justice league episode (the Justice Guild IIRC) was supposed to further illustrate that, with the Black Canary or whatever playing June Cleaver all the time and getting on HG's nerves.

WW is supposed to be distant, aloof, and 'sheltered'. She serves as a foil in some episodes, making dumb "I grew up in an ancient Greek colony" mistakes. They also wanted to keep WW and HG from being too chummy bcs they wanted to avoid a mel/fem dichotomy on the team -- no social circles basically.

Flash is the comic foil, plain and simple. He is supposed to appeal to the younger set.

MM -- notice how he is always referred to as Jon Jonz? The show creators wanted to play down his similarlities with Supes, and de-Brickify him. They wanted to concentrate on his Mental powers and other "unusual" powers. His purpose is to be the concience/heart of the team. As a side note, he also has a big Vulnerability to Heat/Flame.

GL -- They wanted to make a hard charger on the team, but one that in some ways alienates his team mates. He thinks the other members of the group are rookies, except BM, who he sees as being 'only normal'. They made him militant and "direct" (ie, not very flexible). He's supposed to get a lot of milage out of actual experience, though I have never seen it depicted. The other team mates range from indifferent to lukewarm regarding him; he's a bit of an outsider from the group. Thats what the whole Trial arc was supposed to be about, him learning that his new teammates would stand behind him, depening his bond with the team.

BM -- the creators of ths show have always had a stiffy for Batman, and it shows thru in this series too (and thats good from my perspective, bcs I like Batman way more than all the rest of the DC universe combined ;) ). Aside from being the obvious brain on the team, he's also more or less the defacto leader. Though Bats is rarely calling the shots openly, his Intel and Analysis drives the direction the team takes constantly. Notice how they all look to Bats as soon as anything complicated happens. The creators wanted to spin it that BM joined the JLA as a side thing; he's still assumed to have other Bat-stuff going on. Of all the JLA he's the most capable of taking care of things on his own. The creative team also wanted to play up the idea that while Bats can keep up with the powered individuals when they cut loose, its with effort, and he's usually lagging behind. Where he makes it up is while all the heavyhitters are just reacting, Bats is proacting. He figures out where it is all going, and skips to the end.

As a side note, Bats clearly has Find Weakness in several episodes. He always seems to know what to use and where to strike to do the most effect.

Prometheus

May 27th, '03, 12:49 AM

Looking at some more Justice League episodes, I think the problem with Superman is a case of Worf syndrome.

In alot of old Star Trek: TNG episodes Worf was made out to be a real monster, physically superior to the rest of the crew, with impressive combat skills. The problem was that the writers- whether because they were lazy or they felt it was the most effective method available- repeatedly had other people beat up on Worf to demonstrate how formidable they were. The problem was that this just made Worf look like a punching bag.

The same seems true of Justice League's Superman. Most episodes he's getting blasted/electrocuted/exploded/knocked around. Yet in a few key episodes, he take a beating from some tough competition (Solomon Grundy, Draaga, Mongul, and Wonder Woman come to mind) and holds his own.

Evil Toki

May 27th, '03, 02:24 AM

This is a sweet Thread

My own comments, I have to agree on them powering down Superman, he gets his butt handed to him alot, but he also deals out alot of pain, I guess it all depends on the needs of the story.

My own thoughts are about Hawkgirl, she really is a flat character to me, they have yet to do anything that I have seen to give her more dimension, outside of a few stories, it seems like each of the characters gets a story that focuses on one of them outside of her, have I missed one that sheds more light on Hawkgirl... and is it me or is there some tensions between her and GL?

Batman I agree, he runs that show, but pushes himself hard to keep up. Martian Manhunter, is just well all over the place, sometimes he is tough, and sometimes not, i guess him and Superman suffer from the same maladity?

Evil Toki

May 27th, '03, 02:33 AM

Pattern Ghost hope you don't mind but I cross-posted your first post on the Mutants & Masterminds boards, since this got such a good reply here... and since I play that game mainly :) HERO seems pretty cool too

BlackSword

May 27th, '03, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

BM -- the creators of ths show have always had a stiffy for Batman, and it shows thru in this series too (and thats good from my perspective, bcs I like Batman way more than all the rest of the DC universe combined ;) ). Aside from being the obvious brain on the team, he's also more or less the defacto leader. Though Bats is rarely calling the shots openly, his Intel and Analysis drives the direction the team takes constantly. Notice how they all look to Bats as soon as anything complicated happens. The creators wanted to spin it that BM joined the JLA as a side thing; he's still assumed to have other Bat-stuff going on. Of all the JLA he's the most capable of taking care of things on his own. The creative team also wanted to play up the idea that while Bats can keep up with the powered individuals when they cut loose, its with effort, and he's usually lagging behind. Where he makes it up is while all the heavyhitters are just reacting, Bats is proacting. He figures out where it is all going, and skips to the end.

I believe this is also the case in the comic book series. If I remember right in the first or second story arc of the current JLA, all of the metahumans were captured and the enemies gloated over taking down Earth's greatest heroes when someone asked where Batman was. The enemies said, "He's only human." Cue butt kicking by human. I think its mainly done to show that even though there are people with exceptional strength, flight, etc, a 'normal' man with discipline and hard work can keep up with anyone else. In this way JLA isn't dehumanized by threats that are so big that humans don't stand a chance and need superhumans, but instead the superhumans rely on a normal human to save the day. In Gorilla City, wonder woman's strength can't break the handcuffs, but Batman can pick the locks, a perfectly mundane solution to a problem, and the one that works.

Pattern Ghost

May 27th, '03, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Evil Toki
Pattern Ghost hope you don't mind but I cross-posted your first post on the Mutants & Masterminds boards, since this got such a good reply here... and since I play that game mainly :) HERO seems pretty cool too

I don't mind at all. Should be a good topic there, too. Since most of the thread is non-system specific (at least at this point), it might be a good idea to link back to here too. (If you haven't already, I haven't looked on the MnM boards yet.)

MuscaDomestica

Jul 6th, '03, 08:16 AM

Well
::Bump::
After last nights episode we can see that Supes does have an enraged disad with just seeing Darkseid. He hit Bats hard when he tried to stop him.

Trebuchet

Jul 6th, '03, 08:43 AM

After last night's new JL special, it's become obvious that MM is a real brick. He had no trouble at all punching through the Brainiac drones repeatedly.

I'd rate HG as about a 30 STR, she would be very strong for a human but I see no sign of actual brickness. She has excellent martial arts, enough to let her handle herself pretty well. Give her her big ol' honkin' mace and she kicks posterior. That thing decked Darkseid.

Superskrull

Jul 6th, '03, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by MuscaDomestica
Well
::Bump::
After last nights episode we can see that Supes does have an enraged disad with just seeing Darkseid. He hit Bats hard when he tried to stop him.

That would dovetail nicely with the Superman TAS shows they've done, since Darkseid killed Inspector Dan Turpin in cold blood and sneered at Superman afterwards. Darkseid and TAS Supes have a rather nasty history and Darkseid has jerked Superman's chain way too often for Superman not to be furious.

JmOz

Jul 6th, '03, 05:51 PM

Okay everyone the name of the thread is BUILDING The animated Justice League so lets get to building

Animated Superman

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25/75  </td><td>STR</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23  </td><td>DEX</td><td>39</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25  </td><td>CON</td><td>30</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>BODY</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>INT</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>EGO</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>PRE</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">16  </td><td>COM</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">20/30  </td><td>PD</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>ED</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5  </td><td>SPD</td><td>17</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/20  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">50  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">50/75  </td><td>STUN</td><td>9</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5"/15"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 150

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td>Kryptonian Powers, all slots: Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">24  </td><td>1) Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">40  </td><td>2) Superstrength: +50 STR (50 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">5</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">21  </td><td>3) Invulnerability: Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Not Vs Magic (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>4) Heat Vision: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6 (vs. ED) (30 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost 2x END (-1/2), Concentration 1/2 DCV (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">6</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6  </td><td>5) Super Vision: Enhanced Perception (+4 to PER Rolls for Single Sense Group) (8 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>6) Super Vision: Telescopic +4 to PER Rolls (only to offset the Range Modifier) (Sight Group) (6 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3  </td><td>7) Super Hearing: Enhanced Perception (+2 to PER Rolls for Single Sense Group) (4 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3  </td><td>8) Super Hearing: Telescopic +4 to PER Rolls (only to offset the Range Modifier) (Normal Hearing) (4 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">12  </td><td>9) Super vision: Microscopic x1000 (Sight Group) (15 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">2  </td><td>10) Super Hearing: Ultrasonic Perception (3 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3  </td><td>11) Megascaled Sight: Megascale on normal sight (1"=1 KM); , Only when Var Advantage is used for Megascale (+0) (6 Active Points); Linked to Flight (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">8  </td><td>12) X Ray Vision: N-Ray Perception (10 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">8  </td><td>13) Life Support , Extended Breathing, Safe in High Pressure, Safe in High Radiation, Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat (10 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 150

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Deduction 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>Streetwise 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>PS: Reporter (INT-based) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>CK: Metropolis 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Bureaucratics 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Conversation 12- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 15

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Membership of the JL, Press Pass </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Reputation (A large group; 11-) +2/+2d6 </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Base (50 Base, 50 Disad) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Well-Connected </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>1) Contact (Contact has: useful Skills or resources) (2 Active Points) 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>2) Contact (Contact has: useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) (4 Active Points) 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>3) Contact (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has: useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) (5 Active Points) 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>4) Contact (Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Very Good relationship with Contact) (5 Active Points) 11- </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 35

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Lois Lane 11- (Normal; Useful noncombat position or skills; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Jimmy Olsen 8- (Normal; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Hunted: Lex Luther 11- (Less Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Hunted: Darkseid 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Superman Rouge Gallery 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25  </td><td>Susceptibility: Pressence of Kryptonite (4") 3d6 damage, per Phase (Uncommon) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing Common, Total </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Social Limitation: Secret Identity Frequently (11-), Major </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Protectve of Innocence (Common; Strong) </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

CrosshairCollie

Jul 7th, '03, 01:48 AM

I just kind of skimmed the threads, but ... I don't recall anybody mentioning J'onn J'onzz's telepathy in any detail. Stuff I recall him doing ...

1. Psychic Shields (secret origins: hid Batman)
2. Telepathy (Blackest Night: Got GL's location from a guard)
3. Mind Blast (Blackest Night: KOed the guard after reading his mind)
4. Mind Scan (Blackest Night: Made contact with GL across interstellar distances).
5. Clairsentience as seeing-through-eyes (Blackest Night: Saw the stars GL was gazing on while imprisoned)

Okay, so Blackest Night was the only episode to REALLY showcase his psychic powers. But still, he's done it. :)

Bastion

Jul 7th, '03, 07:16 AM

Great topic guys! A lot of good stuff in here so far. Not really anything to do with specific powers but I just had to say that the Gorilla City episode had the best example of non-combat speed I have ever seen. When Flash is chasing down the van he catches up to it very quickly a couple of times but has difficulty overtaking them when he drops out of non-combat speed and brings his DCV up to full.

CrosshairCollie

Jul 7th, '03, 07:28 AM

Oh yeah ... two more cents. Green Lantern should have a RKA with the ring, too. In 'In Blackest Night', he creates an energy blade. It's hard to see, but in the final climactic battle, he creates an effect that scythes across some of the Manhunter robots and cuts them in half. If you're detail oriented. :)

J4y

Jul 7th, '03, 09:17 AM

MM has also done the shape change into the bad guy routine a few times, I would (assuming Supes at Str 75) put MM at 30, with a Desolid/Density Increase/Shape Change MP sitting at 50 points (40 point powers w/ Red end 1/2)

He also shapeshifts into a fire breathing dragon in the intro and in at least one episode (metamorphosis 2?) MM seems to be able to do just about anything... but he doesn't. He definetly seems to be "restrained" for some reason because pound for pound he seems to be able to one-up superman on just about everything. He also seems to have research skills like Batman as he was working on a cure in "Fury."

Aside from being the obvious brain on the team, he's also more or less the defacto leader. Though Bats is rarely calling the shots openly, his Intel and Analysis drives the direction the team takes constantly. Notice how they all look to Bats as soon as anything complicated happens.

I don't think Batman ever even joined them. He told Superman to call him if they need help but he wasn't going to actually be on the team. He IS often MIA too, either back at the base researching a cure (metamorphosis), sick (fury), doing his own thing (injustice for all) or just not present in the episode. There was a line where I think Superman said he couldn't even contact Batman and it sounded like that wasn't unusual. I do get a kick out of some of the things Batman does, like bribing Humanite, that no one else on the team could or would do.

The Lasso: What's up with the Lasso? Seems to have lost its umph. Has anyone seen the truth power yet? Or the "you can't remove it" power?

Pretty sure she has stated it's unbreakable. There has also been at least one case of the lasso being irretrievably lost but she uses it again in the next scene, so she can't lose it. Seems like it's just being used for it's range, entangle and as a non-killing way of dealing with normals.

24 1) Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points)

That seems... slow. I get the impression all the flyers can at least keep up with jets.

don

Jul 7th, '03, 01:26 PM

Also keep in mind a few things with Superman.

The follow-up to his series two-parter with Darkseid, where Turpin was killed, was Legacy, where Supes was brainwashed into conquering Earth for Darkseid. It's this incident that Batman is referring to in the recent JL episodes "Twilight". It's also this episode that has Superman burned out and demoralized in season one, accounting for his somewhat lackluster performance. Thanks to Darkseid, many of the people of Earth, including former friend Emil Hamilton, no longer trust the Man of Steel, and it's been shown to Superman in no uncertain terms that the military is ready to consider him public enemy number one at a moment's notice (at least some elements). However, in season two, thanks to Twilight, the old Superman is supposed to make some of a comeback, getting back up to snuff and unleashing. So that could be interesting.

Also, Superman is seen to be nearly, if not as, fast as the Flash. The two ran a race in Superman TAS, and the two were neck and neck for much of it. Personally, I'd let Flash have the edge here, and also chalk up Superman's lack of superspeed action to being a team player and not letting anyone feel like they can't contribute. Let's face it, Flash in JL is a major loser and one-trick pony. If anyone needs to be mended, it's this guy.

My thoughts, anyway.
Don

J4y

Jul 7th, '03, 02:27 PM

It's also this episode that has Superman burned out and demoralized in season one, accounting for his somewhat lackluster performance. Thanks to Darkseid, many of the people of Earth, including former friend Emil Hamilton, no longer trust the Man of Steel, and it's been shown to Superman in no uncertain terms that the military is ready to consider him public enemy number one at a moment's notice (at least some elements).

That doesn't jibe at all with "Origins" where the world gratefully puts itself into a rather energetic Superman's sole hands. Superman did NOT come into the series "burned out" and the world governments trusted him completely. The only thing that has changed is Superman no longer believes he is capable of protecting the world by himself (which was demonstrated in Origins) which is why he invited the others to stay and join the JLA.

“I believe that if we stay together as a team, we would be a force that could truly work for the ideals of peace and justice.”
“What like a bunch of super friends?”
“More like a Justice League.”
“Do you have any idea how corny that sounds?”

don

Jul 7th, '03, 03:46 PM

I understand what is said in Origins, but I am also aware of interviews and talks given by the creative team behind the recent Darkseid episode, and some of their direction choices.

To me, it seemed weird to have the world all ga-ga after Superman following Legacy, but hey, there's only so much continuity allowed in episodic animated tv, I guess.

::shrugs::

Don

J4y

Jul 7th, '03, 05:16 PM

To me, it seemed weird to have the world all ga-ga after Superman following Legacy, but hey, there's only so much continuity allowed in episodic animated tv, I guess.

There were some grateingly bad problems with the episode. The hairpin turn in Superman's popularity was one of them. The doctor refusing to save Supergirl's life was another, even if she had been guilty of anything which in fact was the reverse, she had fought against the invasion, it was dumb he'd let her die. Superman leaving Darkseid alive puts him firmly in the short bus, WTF was he even doing invading Apokolipse in the first place if all he does is listen to Darkseid threaten to slaughter more humans then leave? *boggle* I feel like Earth is a Quicky Mart and Superman is Apu saying "glad we could satisfy your invading and slaughtering needs. Thank you, come again!"

JmOz

Jul 7th, '03, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by J4y

[b]24 1) Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points)

That seems... slow. I get the impression all the flyers can at least keep up with jets.

Not really, As imagined it will be used for various stages of Megascale (1=10m, 1=100m, 1=1km), usable underwater, and 1/2 end, this will give the boy a top speed of (math check 10km * speed 5 *5 turns a minute * 60 minutes an hour =15000Km an hour) or roughly mach 12.5...seems fast enough for me...

J4y

Jul 7th, '03, 08:43 PM

Not really, As imagined it will be used for various stages of Megascale (1=10m, 1=100m, 1=1km), usable underwater, and 1/2 end, this will give the boy a top speed of (math check 10km * speed 5 *5 turns a minute * 60 minutes an hour =15000Km an hour) or roughly mach 12.5...seems fast enough for me...

Oops, misread that yeah, he can get 1km megascale. :)

JmOz

Jul 8th, '03, 12:44 AM

Not a problem

Insaniac99

Jul 8th, '03, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by J4y
To me, it seemed weird to have the world all ga-ga after Superman following Legacy, but hey, there's only so much continuity allowed in episodic animated tv, I guess.

There were some grateingly bad problems with the episode. The hairpin turn in Superman's popularity was one of them. The doctor refusing to save Supergirl's life was another, even if she had been guilty of anything which in fact was the reverse, she had fought against the invasion, it was dumb he'd let her die. Superman leaving Darkseid alive puts him firmly in the short bus, WTF was he even doing invading Apokolipse in the first place if all he does is listen to Darkseid threaten to slaughter more humans then leave? *boggle* I feel like Earth is a Quicky Mart and Superman is Apu saying "glad we could satisfy your invading and slaughtering needs. Thank you, come again!"

I think this shows how strong his CVK is, he may despise Darkseid and all that but when it is beaten to a pulp the closest he can do is throwing Darkseid to he masses, which he assumes that they would overthrow him, and he just couldn't imagine them helping Darkseid, it was totally unthinkable to superman. also he beat up darkseid as a way of saying "stay the F--- away from earth or I'll do this to you again" again he can't go out and say it but that is what i think he meant. also while he lost a lot of devoted people, alot of people spoke up for him, that seacaptain (can never remember his name) still trusts supes, and there have got to be more, so while the attitude of the people in the pilot, while a little exteme, isn't totally unrealistic, this could be a while after that last episode of supes, and he could have regained at least some of the trust he lost.

as for the popularity turn in Legacy, well, what would you do, if knowing your Idol, the American Icon in fact, tried VERY HARD to take over the world, he showed no emotion about those he killed, they were ants to him and he acted like it, then he threatens Emil Hamilton and all in all, I honestly can't say, living in the "real" world not a veiwer of everything and never having actually been saved or come in contact with Supes, save for what i saw on TV and in the Paper, that I would completely trust Supes either. and that is even without taking into acount those that lost loved ones to his hands.

and Supergirl, being related to supes of course recieves some of that so while a docter swears the hypocratical oath to help whoever he can, personal biases can easily get in the way and those that blur Supergirl and Supes in as one might come down hard on him with things like "why'd you save her, she's nothign but a monster" where as if he didn't do anything then the few who blame her death on him he could say "i couldn't do anything for her"

JmOz

Jul 9th, '03, 04:24 PM

Any ideas on what should eb Wonder Woamns Disads?

Hermit

Jul 9th, '03, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by JmOz
Any ideas on what should eb Wonder Woamns Disads?

Psychological Limtations might include:
Noblesee Oblige (Common, Strong)
Torn feelings on Man's world-both intrigued and annoyed (Com, Mod)
Overconfidence (V.C, Mod)

:)

JmOz

Jul 9th, '03, 06:00 PM

What I have so far is:

PI
Hunted by Ares
Hunted by Fury
Exiled
Naieve
code of the amazon

looking for about another 40, with only 5 coming from hunteds max or 10 from psyc lims (Or is Naieve a Phys lim?)

JohnOSpencer

Jul 9th, '03, 06:02 PM

Maybe DNPCs for all her fellow amazons and mother?
Might be too many points.

John Spencer

JmOz

Jul 9th, '03, 06:20 PM

Here she is Boys and Girls, the wonder of wonders

Animated Wonder Woman

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">60  </td><td>STR</td><td>50</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25  </td><td>DEX</td><td>45</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25  </td><td>CON</td><td>30</td></tr><tr><td align="right">17  </td><td>BODY</td><td>14</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>INT</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12  </td><td>EGO</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>PRE</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">24  </td><td>COM</td><td>7</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">25  </td><td>PD</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>ED</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5  </td><td>SPD</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>REC</td><td>6</td></tr><tr><td align="right">50  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">60  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 201

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">27  </td><td>Enchanted Bracelets: Desolidification (affected by HtH attacks) (40 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right">4</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">18  </td><td>Magic Lasso: Stretching 6", Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (45 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Noncombat Stretching (-1/4), No Velocity Damage (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">30  </td><td>Flight: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 75

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td> Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Weapon Element: Axes, Maces, Hammers, and Picks, Blades, Clubs, Lariots, Polearms and Spears, Staffs </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 24

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Animal Handler (Bovines, Canines, Equines, Felines, Raptors) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Climbing 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Driving 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>KS: Greek Mythology 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>KS: Ancient Greece 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Language: Ancient Greek (idiomatic) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>Language: Greek (fluent conversation) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Navigation (Air, Marine) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Riding 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>Survival (Temperate/Subtropical) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Tracking 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>TF: Chariots, Equines </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons, Lariots, Staffs </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 39

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Membership in the JL </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 5

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Talent</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED) </td></tr></table>Talents Cost: 6

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25  </td><td>Hunted: Ares, Greek God of War 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Hunted: Fury 11- (As Pow; Harshly Punish; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Code of the Amazon (Common; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Naieve (Uncommon; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">30  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Amazons 8- (Slightly Less Powerful than the PC; Group DNPC: x32 DNPCs) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Mother 8- (As powerful as the PC; Useful noncombat position or skills) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Over confident (Very Common; Moderate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Social Limitation: Public Identity Frequently (11-), Major </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Social Limitation: Exiled (Occasionally; Severe; Not Limiting In Some Cultures) </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

Kevin Scrivner

Jul 9th, '03, 10:12 PM

I find the Desolidification for the bracelets an unusual construction. Why'd you choose that rather than the more typical Missile Deflection (bought to insane skill levels, of course)?

"Only" 24 COM? This IS Wonder Woman we're talking about, after all. Va-Voom!

J4y

Jul 9th, '03, 11:35 PM

"Only" 24 COM? This IS Wonder Woman we're talking about, after all. Va-Voom!

Well, she's a pretty flat character, one might even say she is two-dimensional. Badum bum. Ohhh, I kill myself.

Seriously though, she has never "done it" for me. Maybe it's the star-spangled diaper, or the coiled domination gear hanging from her belt, or how the tiara just doesn't go, like at all, oh my gawd, with her other accessories. And those boots!

Hawkgirl is definetly the looker in the JLA, and after beating up the green lanterns in a bar fight!!! The wings say soft and angelic, the mace says grrrrrr baby! Rrrrrrar!

:D

JmOz

Jul 10th, '03, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
I find the Desolidification for the bracelets an unusual construction. Why'd you choose that rather than the more typical Missile Deflection (bought to insane skill levels, of course)?

"Only" 24 COM? This IS Wonder Woman we're talking about, after all. Va-Voom!

When was the last time you saw her miss? Missile deflection is a way to do it, but It seems when she goes defensive that she does not get hit at all

Powerhouse

Jul 10th, '03, 03:40 PM

Hmm... I wouldn't allow the DNPC disavd for 32 amazons. It just gets out of hand and they have never shown up on the show needing help (except to track down the rogue Amazon).

Also, I would advise against the desolid power since she is then affected by beams with the affect desolid advantage though that makes no sense with her SFX.

Ego and PRE should get boosted if possible.

Powerhouse

Jul 10th, '03, 03:40 PM

Hmm... I wouldn't allow the DNPC disavd for 32 amazons. It just gets out of hand and they have never shown up on the show needing help (except to track down the rogue Amazon).

Also, I would advise against the desolid power since she is then affected by beams with the affect desolid advantage though that makes no sense with her SFX.

Ego and PRE should get boosted if possible.

don

Jul 10th, '03, 06:14 PM

The other possibility,and standard construction I've seen used in reference to her in the past (and Cap's shield, too, for instance) is to make it Armor (or maybe Force Field) with a high activation roll. High activation allows it to work on a regular basis, and with an additional flaw of needing to see the attack, means the power will be cheaper than insanely high levels of Missile Deflection.

Don

JohnOSpencer

Jul 11th, '03, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Powerhouse
Hmm... I wouldn't allow the DNPC disavd for 32 amazons. It just gets out of hand and they have never shown up on the show needing help (except to track down the rogue Amazon). <snip>

Actually they show up in the two parter when her mother and all the amazons are turned to stone by some mage(whose name I don't remember).

John Spencer

red_eagle123

Jul 11th, '03, 07:00 AM

The Mage's name would be Felix Faust, who in classic Comic Continuity was a major foe of the JLA (Silver Age edition). He also served or worked with 3 demons, whose names escape me at the moment.

Bartman

Jul 11th, '03, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by JohnOSpencer
Actually they show up in the two parter when her mother and all the amazons are turned to stone by some mage(whose name I don't remember).

So in the first season out of 22 episodes the amazons figured in 4 or 18% of the time. An 8- seems reasonable.

Fedifensor

Jul 11th, '03, 10:54 AM

A few thoughts:

Superman is like a WWF wrestler in most of the fights. He gets slapped around a lot, but just when you think he's on the ropes he comes back and triumphs. High Recovery, Regeneration, or even Aid (Aid to STUN, only when at 1/4 STUN or less and Aid to BODY, only when at 1/2 BODY or less).

I would design Wonder Woman's bracelets with both Missile Deflection, and Armor on an Activation roll. That should adequately simulate them without a clunky use of Desolid.

Both Flash and Superman should have SuperSpeed. The difference is that Superman just uses it to get from one place to another in the blink of an eye (Teleport?). Flash does virtually anything you can think of with it - disassembling machines, creating air vortexes, etc.

As far as resistant defenses go, look and see who gets bloody in the combats. Superman, surprisingly, sheds more blood than anyone else in the JL, even though he can bounce bullets. On the flip side, the Flash hardly ever takes BODY damage, even though he routinely trips/is tripped while running at supersonic speeds. Makes you wonder...

JmOz

Jul 11th, '03, 06:45 PM

I din't think Desolid is clunky, to be honest I think Missile Deflection is obsessing with a F/X over what it does

What have we seen her do with it in the show: AVOID ALL DAMAGE: what powers allow this:

Missile Deflection
DCV Bonus
Desolid
Force Wall

Has she ever gotten hit while using it: I don't recall her ever being hit when she is trying to block, the only one that has that acuracy is desolid & Force Wall

Now I will admit I had not thought of FW when I did it, However it is an interesting idea that I am exploring for v2.0

Pattern Ghost

Jul 12th, '03, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by J4y
The Lasso: What's up with the Lasso? Seems to have lost its umph. Has anyone seen the truth power yet? Or the "you can't remove it" power?

Pretty sure she has stated it's unbreakable. There has also been at least one case of the lasso being irretrievably lost but she uses it again in the next scene, so she can't lose it. Seems like it's just being used for it's range, entangle and as a non-killing way of dealing with normals.

The big critter on New Genesis broke the Lasso...

Good episode...but when's the next one???

Manhunter was definately flexing some brickly might too. I'd guess he was using his DI to boost his STR in the Braniac-fest. Maybe put him around 40-50 plus some DI levels.

JohnOSpencer

Jul 13th, '03, 03:14 PM

Hey JmOz, any chance of getting the Hero Designer file for Wonder Woman. I put the Superman one to good use in my campaign last night.

Thanks,
John Spencer

JmOz

Jul 13th, '03, 05:29 PM

Sure: I am still working on it however (Not happy with the bracelets yet)

JohnOSpencer

Jul 13th, '03, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by JmOz
Sure: I am still working on it however (Not happy with the bracelets yet)

Maybe a multipower with missile reflection and force wall/desolid/whatever in it.

John Spencer

JmOz

Jul 13th, '03, 06:34 PM

Animated Wonder Woman

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">60  </td><td>STR</td><td>50</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25  </td><td>DEX</td><td>45</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25  </td><td>CON</td><td>30</td></tr><tr><td align="right">17  </td><td>BODY</td><td>14</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>INT</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12  </td><td>EGO</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>PRE</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">22  </td><td>COM</td><td>6</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">25  </td><td>PD</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>ED</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5  </td><td>SPD</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>REC</td><td>6</td></tr><tr><td align="right">50  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">60  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 200

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">18  </td><td>Magic Lasso: Stretching 6", Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (45 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Noncombat Stretching (-1/4), No Velocity Damage (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">30  </td><td>Flight: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">27  </td><td>Enchanted Bracelets: +11 with DCV (55 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), May not Attack (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 75

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td> Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>Weapon Element: Axes, Maces, Hammers, and Picks, Blades, Bracelets, Clubs, Lariots, Polearms and Spears, Staffs </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 25

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Animal Handler (Bovines, Canines, Equines, Felines, Raptors) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Climbing 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Driving 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>KS: Greek Mythology 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>KS: Ancient Greece 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Language: Ancient Greek (idiomatic) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>Language: Greek (fluent conversation) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Navigation (Air, Marine) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Riding 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>Survival (Temperate/Subtropical) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Tracking 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>TF: Chariots, Equines </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons, Lariots, Staffs </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 39

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Membership in the JL </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 5

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Talent</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED) </td></tr></table>Talents Cost: 6

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25  </td><td>Hunted: Ares, Greek God of War 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Hunted: Fury 11- (As Pow; Harshly Punish; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Code of the Amazon (Common; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Naieve (Uncommon; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">30  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Amazons 8- (Slightly Less Powerful than the PC; Group DNPC: x32 DNPCs) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Mother 8- (As powerful as the PC; Useful noncombat position or skills) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Over confident (Very Common; Moderate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Social Limitation: Public Identity Frequently (11-), Major </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Social Limitation: Exiled (Occasionally; Severe; Not Limiting In Some Cultures) </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

Okay I went with the DCV bonus because that is how you build a shield, by the F/X she is bouncing bullets, she can use Bracelets with her MA, this allows her to use the bonus from her Martial Dodge, to get a DCV of 23, not much can hit that in my experience...

JmOz

Jul 13th, '03, 06:35 PM

here is the HD file

JohnOSpencer

Jul 13th, '03, 06:41 PM

Yeah...a 23 DCV...that should prevent her from getting hit.
The only problem is that she can dodge any attacks. Maybe you should make it only vs ranged attacks.

John Spencer

JmOz

Jul 13th, '03, 06:47 PM

I thought about just that, but decided that she could also use it for a form of "Ultra Block" vs some melee weapons (such as blocking swords with it) as she has almost no rDef, I thought she should have something to protect against HKA's or some thug with a knife is going to be really dangerous...

JmOz

Jul 13th, '03, 07:58 PM

BTW: Who would you like to see next?

assault

Jul 14th, '03, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Morningstar70
Hawkgirl. Preferably in a thong.

OH I'm gonna be walking with a limp for that one. :)

Oh yeah.

This is the version of Hawkgirl with the "likes to hit people with a mace" limitation, isn't it?

Alan

Kevin Scrivner

Jul 14th, '03, 07:44 PM

If they maintain comic book continuity, the reason Hawkgirl repulses Flash's interest -- other than he's a dork -- is that she's married to Carter Hall aka Hawkman, a reincarnated Egyptian prince/slumming alien detective depending on which version you use. With either backstory, Hawkgirl is still a sexy redhead with wings and a BIG mace.

Looks like she'd just tell Flash she's unavailable and be done with it. On the other hand, maybe she's the type that enjoys teasing men. Part of her whole macho woman with an ancient weapon thing.

JmOz

Jul 14th, '03, 07:53 PM

Actualy this Hawkgirl is really the comics Hawkwoman, a thangarian police officer and depending on what version in love and or married to Kator Hal another Thangarian Police Officer

McCoy

Sep 7th, '03, 04:57 PM

*Bump*

Did everyone run out of steam on this topic? We still have five characters unbuilt.

JmOz

Oct 21st, '03, 08:21 AM

To reserect this thread:

Let's sum up what we have seen Hawkgirl do so far:

Flight (Well Do'oh)
Borderline Super Strength
Massive Damage with Mace

Has she been able to survive in space unaided? What about flying in space?

Has she showned one iota of police skill yet?

Tom McCarthy

Oct 21st, '03, 08:32 AM

I've only seen a few episodes, but the only surprise I've seen out of Hawkgirl is that she throws the mace and can use it for illumination. The mace also seems like it might provide some missile deflecting power (missile deflection, force wall, or DCV levels). In flight, she probably has an enhanced DCV. I've been mildly surprised by how much bashing damage she can take, but she hasn't shrugged off any blatant killing attacks.

I'd be inclined to give her decent PRE and some serious minded psych lims, of course.

BlackSword

Oct 21st, '03, 09:12 AM

In Tabula Rasa she should very good combat manueverability in air (so combat skills or extra dex while in flight). I believe that she has to wear a space suit while in a vacuum, but I think that she can fly (she was on the moon in the episode Green Lantern was captured). I haven't seen her do any crime fighting skills, but since Batman is the skill based character his skills tend to dominate. Low Ego as she seemed to be one of the ones most effected by Dr. Destiny.

Hermit

Oct 21st, '03, 09:25 AM

i wouldn't say "low" ego myself, the others sleeping were pretty firmly trapped as well until MM helped out.

I do think one of her Psychological limitations might be "Agressive" Ironic as it sounds, she seems to prefer Fight over "flight" ;)

Perhaps she has an HA Multipower, there have been times seems to hit for extra Knockback, others when she almost autofires with rapid strikes.

Tom McCarthy

Oct 21st, '03, 11:05 AM

So, how long ago did you guys see 'Only a dream' ? Part I just aired last night for me, with Tabula Rasa the last two weeks.

Oruncrest

Oct 22nd, '03, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Tom McCarthy
So, how long ago did you guys see 'Only a dream' ? Part I just aired last night for me, with Tabula Rasa the last two weeks.

Justice League also comes on at 10:00pm eastern Saturday night & 1:00am Eastern Sunday morning for an hour, so you can see the whole story. 'Only a Dream' premiered on the 11th.

Also, Justice League just started showing at 5:30 Eastern on Cartoon Network Mon-Thur. 'Only a Dream' pt. 1 will show today and pt 2 will show tomorrow.

Oruncrest

Oct 22nd, '03, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by Hermit
i wouldn't say "low" ego myself, the others sleeping were pretty firmly trapped as well until MM helped out.

I do think one of her Psychological limitations might be "Agressive" Ironic as it sounds, she seems to prefer Fight over "flight" ;)

Another Psych Lim she should have is 'Claustrophobia'. She nearly had a heart attack when Luminus formed that Box around her. It also explains why she was in such dire straits during her dream sequence (don't forget, she escaped Dr. Destiny's first dream-trap, though Destiny was able to keep her in a dream state until he could find a trap that worked).

BlackSword

Oct 22nd, '03, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Hermit
i wouldn't say "low" ego myself, the others sleeping were pretty firmly trapped as well until MM helped out.

I suppose 'low' was the wrong word, I meant nothing exceptional as opposed to Batman or MM who would both have a fairly high ego.

Pattern Ghost

Oct 26th, '03, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by JmOz
To reserect this thread:

Has she showned one iota of police skill yet?

I recall her spotting a clue on one episode.

proditor

Oct 26th, '03, 11:16 PM

Hawkgirl's Ego and the Doctor Destiny Arc: Honestly, I know it's just a convention of the developing story, but I'd argue with her having a higher ego then Flash or Supes. She holds out the "longest" relative to the what the others went through. She's the last rescued, and the others had more or less given up until helped by either MM or MM and whoever he had already rescued. The sole exception is of course GL who just starts to open a can right away after he realizes it's mostly a battle of wills.

I also agree on the mace granting some form of defense thing, she uses it to block power blasts, bullets, a lot of stuff actually. And I know her defenses might not be stellar, but she did get rammed by a ME-109 (Well the wing anyway) and seemed at most mildly stunned. She was getting up to smack the pilot while he was going for his pistol. Sidenote: Man, that pilot must have ice water for blood. I don't think many folk would sneer and reach for a pistol after ramming the winged chick with your PLANE didn't work...

She does tend to dodge more than block though, the blocking comes in when she is on terminal approach and ready to unleash a Mace-whoppin' to someone. If she isn't charging, I usually remember her just moving out of the way. Skills...Hmmm. The recent GL episode with Despero would seem to imply two things. Military/Police training (Which we mostly knew already) and some teaching experience, like a drill sergeant. A decently high PRE also seems to be a must.

J4y

Oct 26th, '03, 11:48 PM

She does tend to dodge more than block though, the blocking comes in when she is on terminal approach and ready to unleash a Mace-whoppin' to someone.

She seems to have some very basic ability to do missle deflection with the mace in a coupl episodes. She's also strong willed (high ego.) Really aside from that though she's pretty sucky. In the first half of the dr. dream guy episode she got rescued TWICE, and GL or someone is regularly catching her in midair because an enemy looked at her funny and knocked her out. I think she's been unconcious in almost every episode in which she's fought villians because just about every hit knocks her out and her record for dodging things is probably runnning 50%. She really seems like she's usually human level (top human mind you) in just about everything, all though occasionally she seems superhuman. The only exceptional thing is the mace which has probably been the biggest damage the team has as I don't think even Superman has been shown to pack as much of a punch as it yet.

With 3 flying bricks on the team who also have a variety of other powers, she comes in a very distant 4rth being relativly weak, slow and with almost no powers. Even as a detective she couldn't hold a candle to MM and BM so... she really just seems to be eye candy.

BlackSword

Oct 27th, '03, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by J4y
She really seems like she's usually human level (top human mind you) in just about everything, all though occasionally she seems superhuman. The only exceptional thing is the mace which has probably been the biggest damage the team has as I don't think even Superman has been shown to pack as much of a punch as it yet.

True, in the War World episode she knocked an energy blast back into the cannon, I also seem to remember her dealing out lots of damage in the first GL centered episode.

With 3 flying bricks on the team who also have a variety of other powers, she comes in a very distant 4rth being relativly weak, slow and with almost no powers. Even as a detective she couldn't hold a candle to MM and BM so... she really just seems to be eye candy.
Maybe she should be modeled more as a flying martial artist. Balancing her out with the rest of the team is difficult for the reason mentioned, everyone else is very multifaceted, she flies, has a mace and a few skills.

Broblawsky

Oct 27th, '03, 05:25 AM

Yeah, giving her a lot of martial arts would probably be a good idea - it'd simulate her combat training well. She should have a decent ego, higher than flash's at least (maybe around 15?) and a bit of mental defense - she seemed to last as long or longer against Despero's psychic assault than Katma Tui. To simulate her toughness, it wouldn't be a bad idea to add in a lot (~15 pts) of basic PD & ED, and then give her the Combat Luck version of Damage Resistance.

JmOz

Oct 27th, '03, 05:28 AM

I realise it does not nessesarily hold true, but I am creating her with greater flight speed, but with out the VarAdvantege I am giving some of the others who I consider faster than her (Most flyers have been 10" with VarAdvantage, she is going to be at 25") This makes her much faster in a fight, but outside of a fight she is nowhere near as fast.

proditor

Oct 27th, '03, 09:26 AM

I like the idea of giving her good, slightly superhuman STR, say 30 or so, and a bunch of martial arts. She throws the GL's around for a while without the use of the Honkin' big mace after all.

And I might be mis-remembering, but it seems to me that when she does get hit while flying, it's usually one out of several attacks directed at her, not she just gets clipped by a lone shot. At least as a generalization.

The place where she usually does not do as well in combat is when she's grounded. Her fight against Amazo springs to mind.

Captain Liberty

Oct 27th, '03, 09:53 AM

I don't see the cartoon as often as I'd like, but read the comic book. In that, it would seem that Hawkgirl's wings are part of her, making her different from either version that has been in comic books before. Has there been anything in the cartoons to imply that the wings are not always there?
The comic at one point had the wings scrunched up into a backpack, but she has never been seen without them. And later in the same adventure, the JLA went on an "everyone in civies" camping trip and she was still winged, though otherwise in civies.
Also, I believe the cartoon had Flash asking at one point "Is there a Hawkboy (man?)?" She didn't answer.

BlackSword

Nov 2nd, '03, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by Captain Liberty
I don't see the cartoon as often as I'd like, but read the comic book. In that, it would seem that Hawkgirl's wings are part of her, making her different from either version that has been in comic books before. Has there been anything in the cartoons to imply that the wings are not always there?
The comic at one point had the wings scrunched up into a backpack, but she has never been seen without them. And later in the same adventure, the JLA went on an "everyone in civies" camping trip and she was still winged, though otherwise in civies.
Also, I believe the cartoon had Flash asking at one point "Is there a Hawkboy (man?)?" She didn't answer.
In "Hearts and Minds" Despero paws at Hawkgirl's wings and says something effect, "The wings are quite exoctic, I'll use her as a personal attendant." So it seems that her wings are part of her. Also reading through the official WB site for JL they indicate that one of Hawkgirl's powers is the ability to communicate with birds (though it hasn't been used in any of the episodes unless she got the penguins to attack Orm in "The Enemy Below." In "A Better World" it looks like Hawkgirl's mace can direct electricity somewhat.

Pattern Ghost

Nov 3rd, '03, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Captain Liberty

Also, I believe the cartoon had Flash asking at one point "Is there a Hawkboy (man?)?" She didn't answer.

She should have a Psych Limit "Ignores Flash"

:D

Ndreare

Nov 4th, '03, 08:01 PM

Any one have a write up for the flash or GL yet?

I would like to see your character versions.

Pattern Ghost

Nov 4th, '03, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Morningstar70
Can't. Then we wouldn't have "How would you like to be the fastest man alive... with a limp?"

That'd just make it "moderate" =)

AlHazred

Nov 15th, '03, 11:10 AM

So, is this thread dead? Has the discussion of Justice League characters moved to another thread?

WhammeWhamme

Nov 15th, '03, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost
She should have a Psych Limit "Ignores Flash"

:D

Isn't that a psych adv?

proditor

Nov 15th, '03, 07:47 PM

I think after seeing "The Terror Beyond" tonight we might need to make some adjustments to Hawkgirl.

Sweet monkey Jesus she was unstoppable...

Plus, in addition to cop skills we can apparently add a small amount of mystic Thangarian hoodoo.

Also, the GL trial had one other thing I just noticed today. Hawkgirl gets blasted by a Manhunter, goes through a window (no big deal) and then a WALL and hops back up GROWLING! That is one very tough Thangarian.

Lightray

Nov 15th, '03, 08:00 PM

I had a gaming geek moment after the third or so time that Hawkgirl showed up Superman -- "How much Luck did she buy?"

She knocked a hole in Fate's tower, she blasted through Inza's shield, and she deflected Fate's mystic bolt. All with that dang mace.

But she definately needs lots of d6 of Luck.

Pattern Ghost

Nov 15th, '03, 11:13 PM

I haven't seen it yet, but I've always had her pegged for a high CON, moderate PD and maybe some Damage Reduction, Stun Only. The girl seems hard to put/keep down. Maybe a bunch of extra Armor through the mace, with an activation roll of some kind to represent an all out defense with it.

Pattern Ghost

Nov 15th, '03, 11:14 PM

Of course, this sounds like a good case to build her a berserk power with a STUN boost that kicks in when Enraged.

BlackSword

Nov 16th, '03, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by Lightray
I had a gaming geek moment after the third or so time that Hawkgirl showed up Superman -- "How much Luck did she buy?"

She knocked a hole in Fate's tower, she blasted through Inza's shield, and she deflected Fate's mystic bolt. All with that dang mace.

But she definately needs lots of d6 of Luck.
I don't know if its luck so much as a difference in limits. Superman has always said that he vulnerable to magic, so it makes since that he might not be able to punch through a magical barrier. Perhaps Hawkgirl's mace has special properties which make it more effective against magic.

Pattern Ghost

Nov 16th, '03, 05:35 PM

I don't think they've mentioned Nth Metal on the show, but if that's what the mace is made of, it could be very scary indeed.

Trebuchet

Nov 16th, '03, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost
I don't think they've mentioned Nth Metal on the show, but if that's what the mace is made of, it could be very scary indeed. Giverwhat we've seen Hawkgirl do with that bloody mace over the course of the last two seasons, it's pretty obvious it's more than just technological in nature. It's the DCU version of Mjölnir. :eek:

WhammeWhamme

Nov 16th, '03, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Giverwhat we've seen Hawkgirl do with that bloody mace over the course of the last two seasons, it's pretty obvious it's more than just technological in nature. It's the DCU version of Mjölnir. :eek:

So, what exactly *are* the powers... hmmm.

(I really want to know; that show will get here 2005 if I'm lucky... and I wanna steal. :))

levi

Nov 16th, '03, 11:24 PM

I don't see the mace as more than an OAF MP w/ HA & EB.

1) OAF because she loses it regularly
2) EB because she has been known to throw it and go pick it up. (1 recoverable Charge, Costs END)
3) HA because...wel d'uh

She does Missile Deflect and Block with it quite often as well.

These Mjolnir references I am guessing come from the newest episode in which she was chewing through Dr. Fate's shields and deflecting his spells. That was explained in the episode. Those spells and wards in particular were based on Thanagarian Mysticism - the Mace is advanvced Thanagarian Tech. Say it with me, "Symbolism"...lol

I can't wait to se JmOz's write up personally.

Pattern Ghost

Nov 17th, '03, 04:25 AM

She's also showed a limited ability to manipulate the electrical field in the trap used in the alternate universe/bad JLA episode (forgot the name) and she has batted a planet-busting EB back into the cannon on War World. She was able to bust through mystic defenses (wall and the shield spell cas by Fate's wife) that definately weren't Thangarian in nature in the last ep. She also caused feedback to Fate's wife when she busted the shield spell.

The magic she was busting up in the demon-god's dimension wasn't Thangarian in origin.

It's reasonably safe to assume that the mace is Thangarian in origin. It could well be made of Nth metal which would support the slightly extended FX over energy. Nt Metal also seems to respond to emotion/will, which would explain some of the added umph when HG's ticked off. (Then again, she seems to have "Enraged on Days with a Vowel in Them," so that could just be plain old adrenaline.) Nth Metal is some spiffy stuff. Check out the JSA Return of Hawkman issues.

Then again, it could just be a honking big mace. With sparks.

JmOz

Nov 17th, '03, 04:43 AM

Does Hawkgirl need her wings to fly? I seem to recall a couple of episodes where she got restrained and floated in air

Captain Liberty

Nov 17th, '03, 09:15 AM

I don't know whether the cartoon has explicitly said so, but the comic book based on the cartoon seems to indicate that the wings are part of her. She has had the wings on while in civilian dress.

If she can still hover while her wings are bound, then she is probably telekinetic (which might explain some of the oompf of the mace) and just uses the wings for direction and maneuvering.

Then again, perhaps the real source of her power is the mace, made of Nth Metal. Probably not, since she still flies when he has thrown/dropped it, but something to think about.

BlackSword

Nov 17th, '03, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Captain Liberty
I don't know whether the cartoon has explicitly said so, but the comic book based on the cartoon seems to indicate that the wings are part of her. She has had the wings on while in civilian dress.

This was also implied during the Despero episode. He pulls one of her wings out a bit to admire it (like a vet checking a bird's wings) and comments about how exotic the wings were.

If she can still hover while her wings are bound, then she is probably telekinetic (which might explain some of the oompf of the mace) and just uses the wings for direction and maneuvering.

Then again, perhaps the real source of her power is the mace, made of Nth Metal. Probably not, since she still flies when he has thrown/dropped it, but something to think about.
I am not sure if she has any telekinesis, but I would agree that the wings seem more for manuvuering. In the Terror Beyond episode Hawkgirl is in the water and then just flies straight up out of it with her wings half submerged. It could be her belt is Nth metal in which case that is what gives her the power to fly and her wings are simply for manuvuering.

levi

Nov 17th, '03, 10:09 AM

Thanagarians mastered anti-grav technology centuries ago...according to the comic based on the cartoon.

FlyBoy

Nov 18th, '03, 10:20 AM

In the case of Hawkgirl, I think she is the type of character that Combat Luck was created for. It also seems to be a good way to simulate the "script immunity" that Batman seems to have...

The Horror

Dec 1st, '03, 04:07 AM

So did these characters actually ever get made with the Hero rules? One of my players to be wants to play a Green Lantern like character, so I figured it would be nice to show him what the Green Lantern actually looks like with the Hero rules.

The Horror

Tom McCarthy

Dec 1st, '03, 06:21 AM

If you've got the UNTIL Superpowers DB, lookup the sample character from 'Darren' in the back of the book with Emerald in his name. Or perhaps Meteorman from Chmapions Universe.

levi

Dec 1st, '03, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by The Horror
...One of my players to be wants to play a Green Lantern like character, so I figured it would be nice to show him what the Green Lantern actually looks like with the Hero rules.

GL is a different character depending on who wears the ring. John Stewart mostly uses EB, FF, TK and FW. His ring use could be summed up with a Multipower. Kyle Payner is much more creative and would need to add Summon, Transformation and maybe even Multiform to accurately portray his ring use. Conversely, John Stewart would have much better physical stats (STR, DEX, CON, BODY...) than Kyle since he is a former Marine.

So what is this player's ring bearer like?

The Horror

Dec 1st, '03, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by levi
GL is a different character depending on who wears the ring. John Stewart mostly uses EB, FF, TK and FW. His ring use could be summed up with a Multipower. Kyle Payner is much more creative and would need to add Summon, Transformation and maybe even Multiform to accurately portray his ring use. Conversely, John Stewart would have much better physical stats (STR, DEX, CON, BODY...) than Kyle since he is a former Marine.

So what is this player's ring bearer like?

He wants to create a character similar to Kyle Raynors GL. It will be a 300 base + 150 disad character, with about 60-75 active point cap on powers.

I'm thinking an OIF, with charges, every power in a flexible multipower. Should most be based on EGO or something similar to represent the usage of willpower to create things? Powers include your suggestions of Summon and Transform. Since I'm very new to the Hero system I'm going to have to take another look through FREd and see if there are any other powers he'll need as well. One of the earlier posts mentions EBs and a Force Field.

Does this sound ok so far?

The Horror

JmOz

Dec 1st, '03, 07:49 PM

Okay, this is off the top of my head:

First you will probably want it as an OIF as it will be cheaper, note this does mean it gets taken away, something Kyle does not have to worry about

His powers should be divided into two parts, an EC & a MP

EC is for the powers you want to keep up.

Flight, Force Field (Actualy this should be linked to some Life Support, and both put in the same slot), I can't think of anything else, but there might be

Then a MP for all your instant powers.

Now as a newbie, I HIGHLY recomend you stay away from summons and from transform. Further more keep the slots as Ultras (or Fixed)

An EB
a Force Wall with 5" extra inches
an Entangle
Telekinesis

This will not create a perfect representation, as the character will be more limited, but that is fine, as a new player it is nice to have easier to use characters

Captain Liberty

Dec 1st, '03, 11:58 PM

I have been toying with the idea of treating the Power Ring as a vehicle for some time. Not at all sure how well it would work out, but it is an interesting concept.

levi

Dec 2nd, '03, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Captain Liberty
I have been toying with the idea of treating the Power Ring as a vehicle for some time. Not at all sure how well it would work out, but it is an interesting concept.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Can you clarify this thought?

Captain Liberty

Dec 2nd, '03, 08:06 AM

Simple actually.

Assume the ring is a vehicle. It lacks many of the attributes of a vehicle, but those can just be "bought down" to 0 and get some more points. Then construct the ring with whatever ECs and Multipowers seem appropriate (or perhaps no ECs, depending on the prejudices of the builder) and have your ringbearer buy the vehicle.

If you can buy an armored suit as a vehicle, you should be able to buy a power ring.

Of course, I have never actually gotten down and tried to do this. I have no idea if there are cost savings or not. But paying 1 for 5 has to count for something.

Tom McCarthy

Dec 2nd, '03, 09:18 AM

Well, here's a simplistic cut at it for cost comparison.

An OIF ring giving a 120 point multipower with 13 slots:

80 for the reserve
104 for the slots (40 STR TK, 12D6 EB, 8D6 EB Indirect, 8D6 Autofire, 4D6 DEF 8 Entangle, 4D6 RKA, 1D6 Continuous NND BODY RKA, Missile deflection at range, 3 kinds of forcefield, 10/10 forcewall, 20" flight at 0 END)

so 184 points for the multipower. For free, the object gets (effectively) 1 BODY and 27 DEF.

For the same cost, you could have a 920 point vehicle ?

As a vehicle, we'd give it STR 0, INT 0, BODY 1, Size 1 (buy some shrinking ?), DEF 27, DEX 30 (minimum) and SPD 6 (minimum), but 0" of running. That's 114 points. Give it the multipower above without OIF (274 points), and we're looking at 388 before disads. Still plenty of room to make this bad boy more powerful...

FlyBoy

Dec 2nd, '03, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Captain Liberty
I have been toying with the idea of treating the Power Ring as a vehicle for some time. Not at all sure how well it would work out, but it is an interesting concept.
Alternately, I've heard more than one person suggest building the ring as the character and buying Hal, Kyle, John, Guy, etc. as a follower...

levi

Dec 2nd, '03, 12:05 PM

Not to step on any toes, but here's my version of the Animated Green Lantern.

TheImperialKhan

Dec 2nd, '03, 04:13 PM

Interesting avatar you have there The Horror.

#78 Power Key by K-H Scheer if I'm not mistaken. The Ace version with the cover art by Gray Morrow.

and your user name...# 66 by Willy Voltz I believe.

Rho-fan from way back. :D

The Horror

Dec 2nd, '03, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by TheImperialKhan
Interesting avatar you have there The Horror.

#78 Power Key by K-H Scheer if I'm not mistaken. The Ace version with the cover art by Gray Morrow.

and your user name...# 66 by Willy Voltz I believe.

Rho-fan from way back. :D

I am very impressed! Very impressed indeed! You are the first person to recognise that avatar either here or at RPGnet.

Sometime next year I plan to start running a game progressing through those books in order. Will put up the details here for your perusal and for any recommendations you may have.

It's nice to know that other fans are around this group.

The Horror

levi

Dec 2nd, '03, 10:52 PM

Looks like I'm the only one still interested, but you folks got my wheels spinning about the Ring as Vehicle Idea. So, here's the Vehicle...

levi

Dec 2nd, '03, 10:52 PM

...and here's the adjusted John Stewart GL file...

TheImperialKhan

Dec 3rd, '03, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by The Horror
I am very impressed! Very impressed indeed! You are the first person to recognise that avatar either here or at RPGnet.

Sometime next year I plan to start running a game progressing through those books in order. Will put up the details here for your perusal and for any recommendations you may have.

It's nice to know that other fans are around this group.

The Horror

I tried it twice. Once using FGU's Space Opera and then again using GDW's MegaTraveller.

It didn't work out because of group dyamics more than anything else. I was thinking about giving it a shot again, if I can get the right mix of players, using HERO. But until that group comes along it's kind of on the back burner. BTW one of the quotes on the back of #101 is from me. I won't tell you which though, you have to try and guess. ;)

levi I'm still very interested and have been downloading everything. Unfortunately as I don't get Cartoon Network I really can't contribute anything. Still keep up the great work. I'm looking forward to seeing Hawkgirl and Batman. Especially Batman, how you're going to do him on 350 pts is beyond me. But I can't wait to see it. :)

nexus

Sep 12th, '04, 04:13 AM

Found it.

Whitewings

Sep 12th, '04, 12:10 PM

Hawkgirl's wings are artificial, I'm pretty well sure. They're for maneuvering, not lift; lift comes her anti-gravitational Nth metal belt. The wings do seem to be part of her, but that only proves that they're either implants or genegineered (or both, they could be created with tissue engineering then attached surgically). And this version of Hawgirl isn't a policewoman; she's a Thanagarian soldier.

As for the way her mace ripped through the magical effects in the episode with Dr. Fate, let me point out that the runes were Thanagarian, Icthulu was the original source of much of Thanagar's society, and Hawkgirl's mace seems to be a powerful, partly mystical, Thanagarian weapon; building in effects to specifically counter Icthulu's creatures and effects would probably be considered just sensible. Hawkgirl is presumably an elite trooper of some sort, and expected to stand with superhumans as an equal, which is why she has such a powerful weapon (plot hook! The Thanagarians might not want her back after Starcrossed, but they'll certainly be back for the mace).

Metaphysician

Sep 12th, '04, 01:41 PM

Nope, they ain't artificial. She's been seen with them out of costume, IIRC.

Whitewings

Sep 12th, '04, 01:47 PM

Nope, they ain't artificial. She's been seen with them out of costume, IIRC.

No contradiction. As I said, they can still be implanted rather than just worn.

Metaphysician

Sep 12th, '04, 01:53 PM

Thing is, that would only make sense if the flight came primarily from Nth metal belt, whereas I don't think there's indications of any such thing. Especially given, IIRC, she flew off in pure civilian garb in Starcrossed.

Whitewings

Sep 12th, '04, 01:59 PM

Thing is, that would only make sense if the flight came primarily from Nth metal belt, whereas I don't think there's indications of any such thing. Especially given, IIRC, she flew off in pure civilian garb in Starcrossed.

Or perhaps, since she's apparently an elite trooper, the Nth metal is incorporated into her wings' structure in some way.

Metaphysician

Sep 12th, '04, 02:02 PM

Possible, yeah, but its just plain unnecessary. I tend to favor the simplest explanations.

tgrandjean

Sep 13th, '04, 01:59 PM

'Just felt the need to chime in here.
Re: Flash - High Dcv, Physical Lim: Clumsy, 2-3 d6 Unluck?

Flash does seem to pull his own weight between his EB (whirlwinds), his ability to take out agents, and his Non-combat speed. In a couple of episodes his sheer ability to move has resulted in the JL knowing the layout of their battlegrounds (and a few cases of him getting into more trouble than he can get out of).

CrosshairCollie

Sep 13th, '04, 02:07 PM

'Just felt the need to chime in here.
Re: Flash - High Dcv, Physical Lim: Clumsy, 2-3 d6 Unluck?

I'd been thinking about this myself ... I would probably use the Velocity-Based DCV rules for Flash, and give him a moderate DEX like an 18, but a metric assload of Lightning Reflexes and Speed. It seems like his reflexes aren't quite on par with his movement to me, rather than him actually being clumsy, per se ... kind of like the vehicle rules with the vehicle's dex and speed being higher than the driver's.

But the unluck ... definitely.

JmOz

Oct 27th, '04, 02:29 PM

In Brightest Day, In darkness Night, Let no evil escape my sight, let those who worship Evil's might beware my power the GREEN LANTERN'S LIGHT

Animated Green Lantern

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val </td><td>Char </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15 </td><td>STR</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23 </td><td>DEX</td><td>39</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20 </td><td>CON</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12 </td><td>BODY</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15 </td><td>INT</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23 </td><td>EGO</td><td>26</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15 </td><td>PRE</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12 </td><td>COM</td><td>1</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">5/20 </td><td>PD</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5/20 </td><td>ED</td><td>1</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5 </td><td>SPD</td><td>17</td></tr><tr><td align="right">7 </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40 </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30 </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6" </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2" </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">3" </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 125

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">167 </td><td>Variable Power Pool, 90 base + 77 control cost, Cosmic (+2) (225 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Must Be recharged (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">0 </td><td>1) Flight: Flight 10", Reduced Endurance 1/2 END (+1/4) (25 Active Points); Ring Limitations (-3/4) Real Cost: 14 </td><td valign="top" align="right">1</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">0 </td><td>2) Green Aura: Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); Ring Limitations (-3/4), Visible (-1/4) Real Cost: 22 </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">0 </td><td>3) Energy Blast Or other Power: Energy Blast 12d6 (vs. ED), Reduced Endurance 1/2 END (+1/4) (75 Active Points); Ring Limitations (-3/4) Real Cost: 43 </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">0 </td><td>4) Green Aura II: Life Support , Safe in High Pressure, Safe in High Radiation, Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat, Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum, Self-Contained Breathing (19 Active Points); Ring Limitations (-3/4), Visible (-1/4) Real Cost: 9 </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 167

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10 </td><td>+2 with Ranged Combat </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Bureaucratics 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Combat Piloting 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>PS: Soldier (INT-based) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Navigation (Land, Space) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Paramedics 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Shadowing 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Stealth 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Streetwise 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">8 </td><td>Survival (Desert, Temperate/Subtropical, Tropical, Urban) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Tactics 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Teamwork 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2 </td><td>WF: Small Arms </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 50

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5 </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Membership in the JL </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3 </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Membership: GLC </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 8

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10 </td><td>Distinctive Features: Military Demaner (Stick up his uniform) (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15 </td><td>Hunted: Guardians of the Universe 8- (Mo Pow; Watching; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15 </td><td>Hunted: Star Saphire 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15 </td><td>Hunted: Sinestro 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5 </td><td>Hunted: Katama Tui 8- (As Pow; Watching; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5 </td><td>Money: Poor </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15 </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Military Mindset (Very Common; Moderate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15 </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Protective of Home (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10 </td><td>Psychological Limitation: See's self as a Role Model (Common; Moderate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10 </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Patriotic (Common; Moderate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15 </td><td>Social Limitation: Subject to Orders (Frequently; Major) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10 </td><td>Social Limitation: Public ID (Occasionally; Major) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5 </td><td>Social Limitation: Subject to racisim (Occasionally; Minor) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5 </td><td>Unluck: 1d6 </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

JMHammer

Oct 27th, '04, 04:02 PM

JmOz,

Regarding this power:

Green Aura: Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); Ring Limitations (-3/4), Visible (-1/4) Real Cost: 22

When I tried to put the Visible Limitation on the Armor of my version of Green Lantern, Hero Designer wouldn't let me because Visible can't be added to a power which already has an Obvious Focus (OIF or OAF). I see that you got around that by using the catch-all "Ring Limitations (-3/4)" instead of "OIF (-1/2) and Needs Recharging (-1/4)" when you wrote that VPP slot. But maybe Visible should be removed since it's not HD2-legal.

edit: And come to think of it, the Life Support can't get both an Obvious Focus and Visible, either.

That VPP might also get another -1/4 Limitation: Only Green Lantern Powers. After all, Green Lanterns can fly, shoot energy blasts, use shields, etc. but can't turn themselves into puddles of goo, transform their enemies into frogs, and so on.

John H

JmOz

Oct 27th, '04, 04:25 PM

Hero Designer is not always right, it is actualy wrong alot (but don't tell Dan), however this time it is right (I was thinking about the rules regarding "Loud" when I put it on).

While debatable the limitation "Physical Manifestation" would be appropriate, as would Alblative/Body only on the armor

Ndreare

Oct 27th, '04, 05:12 PM

Hero Designer is not always right, it is actualy wrong alot (but don't tell Dan), however this time it is right (I was thinking about the rules regarding "Loud" when I put it on).

While debatable the limitation "Physical Manifestation" would be appropriate, as would Alblative/Body only on the armor

Man, you would be hard pressed to back that up. As someone who has used the software ALOT I would be hard pressed to buy in to that statement. I have had the program do something wrong on a character before however more often than not it is correct. I would go so far as to say 99% of the time it is right.

I have a very good understanding of the rules, and am willing to look them up on the net when in doubt. To my experiance if I think something in the program is wrong after looking up the actual rules I find it was my interpritation that was incorrect.

JmOz

Oct 27th, '04, 06:15 PM

Man, you would be hard pressed to back that up. As someone who has used the software ALOT I would be hard pressed to buy in to that statement. I have had the program do something wrong on a character before however more often than not it is correct. I would go so far as to say 99% of the time it is right.

I have a very good understanding of the rules, and am willing to look them up on the net when in doubt. To my experiance if I think something in the program is wrong after looking up the actual rules I find it was my interpritation that was incorrect.

I probably overstated, do to a personal bias I have against Dan. I did send you an IM if you want to continue with this, just not in this thread (Let's keep it on topic :D)

JmOz

Oct 27th, '04, 07:41 PM

FLASH

Disads were tough on him, so tough I had to go with Mystirious Disads (mostly Hunteds and DNPC's IMO)

Animated Flash

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>STR</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">36  </td><td>DEX</td><td>78</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>CON</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>BODY</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>INT</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12  </td><td>EGO</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>PRE</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>COM</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/20  </td><td>PD</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/20  </td><td>ED</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">7  </td><td>SPD</td><td>24</td></tr><tr><td align="right">8  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">20"/40"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 144

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">38  </td><td> +14" Running (20"/40" total), Reduced Endurance 1/2 END (+1/4) (38 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">1</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">20  </td><td>Protective Field: Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); Linked to Running (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>Rapid x1000 (Sight Group) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>Rapid x1000 (Hearing Group (And Mouth)) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">50  </td><td>Superspeed: Multipower, 50-point reserve </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5u  </td><td>1) Hyper Running I: +20" Running (20"/40" total), Reduced Endurance 1/2 END (+1/4) (50 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3u  </td><td>2) Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1) (50 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">2u  </td><td>3) Hyper Running II: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points); Only In Contact With A Surface (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">2u  </td><td>4) Hyper Running III: Flight 10", Megascale (1" = 10 km; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Only In Contact With A Surface (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">4u  </td><td>5) Wind Blast: Energy Blast 5d6 (vs. ED), Double Knockback 2x KB (+3/4) (44 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">4</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3u  </td><td>6) Wind Blast II: Energy Blast 4d6 (vs. ED), Double Knockback 1.5x KB (+1/2), Area Of Effect (7" Cone; +1) (50 Active Points); No Range (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right">5</td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 157

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Flying Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge All Attacks, Abort; FMove </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Passing Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm, +10 STR to Disarm roll; FMove </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Passing Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +v/5; FMove </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Passing Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +v/5; Target Falls; FMove </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 20

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Breakfall 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Superspeed (DEX-based) 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Sleight Of Hand 16- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 9

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Membership: JLA </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 5

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Talent</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">12  </td><td>Combat Luck (6 PD/6 ED) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Lightning Calculator </td></tr></table>Talents Cost: 15

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Dependence: Food -10 Active Points from Affected Power (Very Common; 1 Hour) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Hunted: Gorilla Grodd 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Flash Rouge Gallery 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Overconfident (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Impulsive (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Code vs Killing (Common; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Physical Limitation: Clumsy (Infrequently; Slightly Impairing) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Rivalry: Professional (Other superfast individuals; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Social Limitation: Secret ID (Frequently; Major) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Unluck: 2d6 </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">35  </td><td>Mystery Disadvantages (Hunteds/DNPC's </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

JMHammer

Oct 27th, '04, 08:06 PM

Regarding Flash:

Putting Rapid on Sight and Hearing was brilliant!

The Autofire Hand Attack is 60 Active Points if you want it to apply to Strength (more if you want the Reduced Endurance to apply to Strength, too). The way you have it set up, Flash can't add any Strength damage when he's using this slot, so barring some combat maneuver, velocity damage bonus, etc. this attack is stuck at 4d6.

Shouldn't the two Wind Blast powers attack PD, not ED?

Very nice,
John H

JmOz

Oct 27th, '04, 08:12 PM

Regarding Flash:

Putting Rapid on Sight and Hearing was brilliant!

The Autofire Hand Attack is 60 Active Points if you want it to apply to Strength (more if you want the Reduced Endurance to apply to Strength, too). The way you have it set up, Flash can't add any Strength damage when he's using this slot, so barring some combat maneuver, velocity damage bonus, etc. this attack is stuck at 4d6.

Shouldn't the two Wind Blast powers attack PD, not ED?

Very nice,
John H

it's an 8d6, pg 272, He can add up to the unmodified value of the attack, so 4+4=8

JMHammer

Oct 27th, '04, 08:20 PM

Right, I did forget about that. But...

Wouldn't his 20 Strength convert to 20 Active Points for purposes of adding damage to this Hand Attack? And since the Hand Attack is Advantaged by Autofire (+1/2), 20 more Active Points would convert to 2 1/2d6 of added damage if full Strength (well, 19.5 Strength) were used to add to the damage of this slot for a total of 6 1/2d6, not 8d6.

If not, I'm not understanding the FRED p.272 rule properly.

John H

JmOz

Oct 27th, '04, 08:46 PM

For an HKA yes, but for a HA it is only the base points (so 20 for the Hand attack)

JmOz

Nov 1st, '04, 01:12 PM

For somereason the Sultenass of Swing, the mistress of mashing, The Female Fury of Hawkgirl turned out to be quite hard for me,

Animated Hawkgirl

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25  </td><td>STR</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30  </td><td>DEX</td><td>60</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23  </td><td>CON</td><td>26</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>BODY</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>INT</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>EGO</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>PRE</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">18  </td><td>COM</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">15/20  </td><td>PD</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15/20  </td><td>ED</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">6  </td><td>SPD</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">50  </td><td>END</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 175

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">50  </td><td>Wings: Flight 25", Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (75 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">13  </td><td>Agile Flyer: +4 with DCV (20 Active Points); Linked to Wings (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">22  </td><td>Mace: (Total: 57 Active Cost, 22 Real Cost) HA +5d6, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2) (50 Active Points); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) (Real Cost: 20) plus , Ranged (+1/4) (7 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charges (-1 1/4), OAF (-1), Lockout (-1/2) (Real Cost: 2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">14  </td><td>Mace II: Absorption 3d6 (Energy/Mace HA), Can Absorb Maximum of 45 Points (29 Active Points); OAF (-1) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>Tough as Nails: Armor (5 PD/5 ED) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 114

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Flying Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge All Attacks, Abort; FMove </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Passing Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +v/5; FMove </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Fast Strike: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>Weapon Element: Axes, Maces, Hammers, and Picks </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 25

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Acrobatics 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Acting 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Breakfall 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Bureaucratics 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Piloting 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Demolitions 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Language: English (completely fluent) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>Navigation (Space) 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Stealth 15- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 26

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Membership: JL, Membership: Thangarian Military, Security Clearance: Thangarian Military </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 10

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Distinctive Features: Winged Woman (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Enraged: Taking Body (Common), go 8-, recover 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Enraged: When friends are in immenint danger (Common), go 8-, recover 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Hunted: Khruds 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Thangarian Villains 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Physical Limitation: Wings can be a nucence (Infrequently; Slightly Impairing) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: In love with John Starwart (Common; Moderate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Loyal (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Agresive (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Rivalry: Romantic (Katama Tui; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Social Limitation: Alien (Occasionally; Minor) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Pre Starcrossed </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>1) Social Limitation: Subject to Orders (Frequently; Major) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>2) Hunted: Thangarian Military 8- (Mo Pow; Watching; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>3) Social Limitation: Secret: Spy for Thangar (Occasionally; Severe) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Post Starcrossed </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>1) Social Limitation: Untrusted (Very Frequently; Major) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25  </td><td>2) Hunted: Thangarian Military 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

JmOz

Dec 7th, '04, 09:06 AM

* Superman
* Batman
* Wonder Woman
* Green Lantern
* Martian Manhunter
* Hawkgirl
* Flash

Okay, so next up is Martian Manhunter, then Batman (He's going to be very very hard, but I have a few ideas already)

So let's review what we have seen the two of them doing (I see VPP's for both in truth)...

Edit: MArtian Manhunter is now done
Edit 2: Batman is up

Cardinal

Dec 7th, '04, 01:36 PM

I don't think that you need a VPP for MM. I think you can take care of it with decent stats (30-40 Str, 25 Con, 20 Dex, 20 Ego, 4 or 5 spd), flight, and an MP that has the following:
* Desolidification
* NND EB No Range (Resoldifying with his hand in someone. If you want to be nasty, you can make this a penetrating HKA.)
* Shape Change
* Density Increase
* Telepathy (maybe cum to represent cracking into the Hawk soldiers mind)
* Mind Scan (possibly keep this out of the MP to represent his ability to find and then communicate with people ala the first episode where he summons Superman).
* Ego Attack (thought I don't really recall him doing this much).

Most of his tricks seem to be power skill rolls more than any descrete set of new powers IMO.

BTW, you have done a great job with all the past Animated JL characters. Very playable yet capturing the spirit of the show.

One comment on HG. You might want to do her mace as a MP and put a second slot to represent missile deflection. I also think she might do with a higher PRE. She growls a lot and does not seemed phased by anyone.

Keep up the great work!

Cardinal

Dec 7th, '04, 04:52 PM

JmOz - can you please post the HDC file for GL, Flash and Hawkgirl. Once again, thanks for our work.

JmOz

Dec 7th, '04, 10:00 PM

I don't think that you need a VPP for MM. I think you can take care of it with decent stats (30-40 Str, 25 Con, 20 Dex, 20 Ego, 4 or 5 spd), flight, and an MP that has the following:
* Desolidification
* NND EB No Range (Resoldifying with his hand in someone. If you want to be nasty, you can make this a penetrating HKA.)
* Shape Change
* Density Increase
* Telepathy (maybe cum to represent cracking into the Hawk soldiers mind)
* Mind Scan (possibly keep this out of the MP to represent his ability to find and then communicate with people ala the first episode where he summons Superman).
* Ego Attack (thought I don't really recall him doing this much).

Most of his tricks seem to be power skill rolls more than any descrete set of new powers IMO.

BTW, you have done a great job with all the past Animated JL characters. Very playable yet capturing the spirit of the show.

One comment on HG. You might want to do her mace as a MP and put a second slot to represent missile deflection. I also think she might do with a higher PRE. She growls a lot and does not seemed phased by anyone.

Keep up the great work!

Has he done the resolidfying of the hand trick?

Cardinal

Dec 8th, '04, 08:18 AM

Has he done the resolidfying of the hand trick?

Yes. He did it to two aliens in the last episode of the three episode intro to JL. I have not seen him do it since then, so you can probably rule that it was a (very generous) GM allowing him to power stunt his Str to NND damage. That being said, I think it is worth giving him the power.

JmOz

Dec 8th, '04, 08:58 AM

God, is he turning out to be expensive...

Anyways has he been shown to have the vulnerability to fire he does in the comics, I don't recall one way or another

JmOz

Dec 8th, '04, 01:29 PM

JmOz - can you please post the HDC file for GL, Flash and Hawkgirl. Once again, thanks for our work.

I could

JmOz

Dec 8th, '04, 01:55 PM

Okay, before you review the Manhunter from Mars a few words of warning:

I'm not happy with him, but as I am trying to do a "Standard" power level version of these guys I had to jump through some hoops to get him done. I included the Vulnerabilities to fire but not a Will not work lim as a middle ground between the comics roots and the TV series

His powers are of course all across the board, but to get his "Brickness" you will need to use his Density Increase, otherwise he is on the low end of Defences (10/10)

I welcome critiques. Also I know I had to drop some powers he has not used or only used once (the desol touch). I also could not remember if he had ever turned invisible or not...

JmOz

Dec 8th, '04, 01:56 PM

Animated Martian Manhunter

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25/65  </td><td>STR</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td align="right">18  </td><td>DEX</td><td>24</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>CON</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12  </td><td>BODY</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">18  </td><td>INT</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>EGO</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>PRE</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">8  </td><td>COM</td><td>-1</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/20  </td><td>PD</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/20  </td><td>ED</td><td>6</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4  </td><td>SPD</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td align="right">9  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">35  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5"/13"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 108

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td>Martian Physiology </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>1) Martian Body: Damage Resistance (5 PD/5 ED) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6  </td><td>2) Martian Mind: +6 Mental Defense (9 points total) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">10  </td><td>3) Martian Body: Life Support , Extended Breathing, Longevity: 1600 Years, Safe in High Pressure, Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">64  </td><td>Martian Body: Multipower, 64-point reserve </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6u  </td><td>1) Increase Density: (Total: 64 Active Cost, 62 Real Cost) Density Increase (25500 kg mass, +40 STR, +8 PD/ED, -8" KB), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (50 Active Points) (Real Cost: 50) plus Damage Resistance (10 PD/10 ED) (10 Active Points); Linked to Density Increase (-1/2), Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time (+1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus +2 PD; Linked to Density Increase (-1/2), Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time (+1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus +2 ED; Linked to Density Increase (-1/2), Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time (+1/4) (Real Cost: 2) </td><td valign="top" align="right">4</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6u  </td><td>2) Lower Density: Desolidification , Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (60 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6u  </td><td>3) Shapeshifting: Shapeshift (Sight Group; Additional Sense Group: Hearing Group, Additional Sense Group: Touch Group, Imitation, Instant Change, Variety of Shapes: Any Shape), Costs END Only To Change Shape (+1/4) (64 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">5</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5u  </td><td>4) Invisibility: Invisibility to Sight Group, Hearing Group, No Fringe, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (52 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>Mental Powers: Elemental Control, 30-point powers </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>1) TK Flight: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">12  </td><td>2) TP Link: Mind Link (Any Willing Target), Number of Minds (x8) (30 Active Points); Costs Endurance Only Costs END to Activate (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">45  </td><td>3) Seek Out a Mind: Mind Scan 2d6, +10 ECV, Cumulative (x4 max.) (+1) (60 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">6</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>4) Telepathy: Telepathy 3d6, Cumulative (x4 max.) (+1) (30 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 210

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Piloting 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Deduction 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Language: English (Martian is Native) (completely fluent) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Paramedics 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Shadowing 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Systems Operation 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Tactics 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Teamwork 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>TF: Spaceplanes </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>SS: Medicine (INT-based) 13- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 27

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Membership in the JL </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 5

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Distinctive Features: Green Skin Alien (Easily Concealed; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25  </td><td>Hunted: White "martians" 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Physical Limitation: Ignorant of Earth Society (Infrequently; Greatly Impairing) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Physical Limitation: Alien Anatomy (Requires special medical care) (Infrequently; Greatly Impairing) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Code Vs Killing (Common; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Emotionaly Distant (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Social Limitation: Public ID (Frequently; Major) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Fire (Common) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Vulnerability: 2 x BODY Fire (Common) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Vulnerability: 2 x Effect Mental Effects that use the memory of his family (Uncommon) </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

Hyper-Man

Dec 8th, '04, 03:35 PM

Nice writeup JmOz,

I did notice one problem though. The 1st slot in the 64 point Multipower has more Active Points than the Multipower reserve which is illegal. However, it would be valid in a VPP construction.

HM

JmOz

Dec 8th, '04, 06:18 PM

It fits, it is 64 Active points for all three powers, with a real cost of 62/10=6

50: 8 levels of Density Increase (+40 STR), +1/4 Advantage
02: +2 PD
02: +2 ED
10: DR 10/10
---
64

Hyper-Man

Dec 8th, '04, 07:51 PM

It fits, it is 64 Active points for all three powers, with a real cost of 62/10=6

50: 8 levels of Density Increase (+40 STR), +1/4 Advantage
02: +2 PD
02: +2 ED
10: DR 10/10
---
64
My apologies,

I was reading the 64/62 as the cost on the Density Increase alone. I need to start reading a little more carefuly before responding in such fashion.

Sorry,

HM

Mantis

Dec 8th, '04, 08:00 PM

Excellent thread. And Excellent Work on the Characters. However...

Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum

Don't quite agree with this for Martian Manhunter, or at least the "Vacuum" part. In "In Darkest Night", Superman, MM and Hawkgirl all wear spacesuits on the airless moon of the "destroyed" planet. Ditto for their flight to Oa - everyone is in GL's bubble, not flying on their own. OTOH, at the very start of "War World", I can't recall if Supes and MM were suited or not while working outside the Javelin-7 - I think they were, tho'.

Also, Hawkgirl doesn't fly on the airless moon either, suggesting that her Flight comes from her wings not from a n-Metal belt (or whatever it is in the comics). In the Dr Despero episode, she also has a nightmare of her wings being bound and falling - she wouldn't have this nightmare if her wings weren't the source of her flight.

One other thing about Hawkgirl's mace - she used it to defribulate (sp) GL in the Joker's-bombs-in-Las-Vegas episode. Should this be a power, or just a "special effect" of the power (if the latter, it's a pretty powerful special effect!!!)?

IMHO, FWIW (and IIRR applies too!).

Captain Liberty

Dec 8th, '04, 08:58 PM

MM and Superman were both in space suits in the War World episode. I don't think he has that life support function. Not at all sure he does well in high pressure, either. I don't think it has come up in the show.

Dr. Anomaly

Dec 8th, '04, 09:05 PM

However, in "Knight Time" (the Superman-takes-over-for-Batman episode) he's above the atmosphere (at least briefly) without a space suit and seemed perfectly comfortable.

In the comics, not long after the Crisis, they established that while he does need to breath (and that alone would be a good reason for a space suit), Superman said to Hawkman, just before Supes went EVA without a suit, "I can hold my breath a long time."

I'd suggest that Superman does have the Low Pressure and High Pressure safe environments, and probably the Extended Breathing option, though clearly not "No Need To Breath".

Hyper-Man

Dec 8th, '04, 09:10 PM

MM and Superman were both in space suits in the War World episode. I don't think he has that life support function. Not at all sure he does well in high pressure, either. I don't think it has come up in the show.
Superman has safe environment High and Low Pressue, he just does not have self contained breathing any more. I believe that Mars qualifies as a Low Pressure Environment. IMO Manhunter could probably handle hard vacuum for a bit as well but would have to hold his breath just like Superman. Especially if Flash could survive a few seconds of hard vacuum in the Savage Mass Driver Satelite episode.

HM

Captain Liberty

Dec 8th, '04, 10:19 PM

Anyone can survive a few seconds of hard vacuum. I doubt Mars in the DC Universe has the same low pressure that it has in the RW. That MM would have no problem at the top of Mt. Everest I can well believe. He may even, with his control over his own molecules, be able to survive for minutes in space. But probably no more (though in the Invasion comics series I think he space flew with just a breather. But I'm not sure about that). Superman has worked with just a breathing mechanism many many times, including in the animated series. He and J'onn must have been intending to be EVAing for quite a while for him to need a spacesuit.

Mantis

Dec 9th, '04, 02:28 AM

In the first Aquaman story, Supes, MM, and WW exit the Javelin underwater with just breathing masks (I can't remember if GL had one too, but I think not). Since they are at the bottom of the ocean, looking over a sunken Boomer, I think this qualifies for "High Pressure" for their Life Support.

JmOz

Dec 9th, '04, 05:10 AM

Before I hear it:

He should have more knowledge skills
He should have more science skills
He should have higher stats
He should have a couple of Vehicles and followers
He should have more contacts
He should have a base
He should have some overall skill levels
He should have more skills
He should have some more damage classes
His MA styles have silly names

However I got him done on 350 points, I am of course refering to Batman

Animated Batman

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>STR</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23  </td><td>DEX</td><td>39</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>CON</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>BODY</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">28  </td><td>INT</td><td>18</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>EGO</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20/30  </td><td>PRE</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>COM</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/15  </td><td>PD</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/15  </td><td>ED</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4  </td><td>SPD</td><td>7</td></tr><tr><td align="right">8  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 120

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td>Bat Armor, all slots: OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">10  </td><td>1) Armor (5 PD/5 ED) (15 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>2) Cape: +2 with DCV (10 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">4  </td><td>3) +10 PRE (10 Active Points); To Scare Only (-1) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">56  </td><td>Utility Belt: Variable Power Pool (Gadget), 30 base + 26 control cost, Cosmic (+2) (75 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), May only carry 12 items, must change at a base Slightly Limited (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 75

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Bat Fu </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>1) Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>2) Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>3) Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>4) Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +4d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>5) Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; +10 STR to Disarm roll </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>6) Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Zen Batarangs </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>1) Defensive Shot: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +2 DCV, Range +0, Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>2) Ranged Disarm: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Range +0, Disarm, +15 STR </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>3) Trip: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +0 DCV, Range +0, Strike +v/5, Target falls </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 34

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>+1 Batarangs </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Acrobatics 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Acting 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Breakfall 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Bugging 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Climbing 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Driving 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Piloting 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Concealment 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Criminology 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles, Combat Aircraft, Helicopters, Small Motorized Boats, Small Planes, Spaceplanes, Two-Wheeled Motorized Ground Vehicles </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Deduction 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Demolitions 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Electronics 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Forensic Medicine 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>High Society 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Interrogation 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Inventor 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Lockpicking 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Mechanics 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Paramedics 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Security Systems 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Shadowing 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Stealth 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Streetwise 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Systems Operation 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Tactics 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Teamwork 14- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 90

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Leader of Bat Team, Membership in the JL </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Money: Filthy Rich </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 25

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Talent</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED) </td></tr></table>Talents Cost: 6

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Alfred 8- (Normal; Useful noncombat position or skills) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Commisioner Gorden 8- (Normal; Useful noncombat position or skills; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Select Gotham PD (Harvey & Montoya) 8- (Normal; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID; Useful noncombat position or skills; Group DNPC: x2 DNPCs) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Joker 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Hunted: Ra's Ala Goul 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Rouge Gallery 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Gotham PD 8- (Mo Pow; Watching; Extensive Non-Combat Influence) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Mysterious & Enigmatic (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Code vs Killing (Common; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Drivin to protect Gotham City (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Social Limitation: Secret ID (Frequently; Major) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x Effect Mental Attacks that use the memory of his parents (Uncommon) </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

JmOz

Dec 9th, '04, 05:12 AM

here is the .hdc file

JmOz

Dec 9th, '04, 05:18 AM

On the UT belt, the GM has two options on how to run it depending on the level of realism wanted:

More cinimatic: Character can pull any thing out of it, after pulling 12 different items must return to an appropriate place to restock

More realistic: He must provide the list before time

I suggest the first, but please no Bat-Shark Repellent :joint:

Moody Loner

Dec 9th, '04, 05:54 AM

Isn't the "utility belt" in Gadgets and Gear 52, 54 points?

Careful paring of the slots should get a few more points. That'll buy a couple more skills.

JmOz

Dec 9th, '04, 02:37 PM

Excellent thread. And Excellent<a onMouseOver="window.status='' ; return true;" onMouseOut="window.status='';" oncontextmenu="window.status=''; return true;" onclick="location.href='http://www.enhancemysearch.com/admin/results.php?q=work&id=4';return false;" href="" TITLE="More Info..."> Work </a>on the Characters. However...

Don't quite agree with this for Martian Manhunter, or at least the "Vacuum" part. In "In Darkest Night", Superman, MM and Hawkgirl all wear spacesuits on the airless moon of the "destroyed" planet. Ditto for their flight to Oa - everyone is in GL's bubble, not flying on their own. OTOH, at the very start of "War World", I can't recall if Supes and MM were suited or not while working outside the Javelin-7 - I think they were, tho'.

Also, Hawkgirl doesn't fly on the airless moon either, suggesting that her Flight comes from her wings not from a n-Metal belt (or whatever it is in the comics). In the Dr Despero episode, she also has a nightmare of her wings being bound and falling - she wouldn't have this nightmare if her wings weren't the source of her flight.

One other thing about Hawkgirl's mace - she used it to defribulate (sp) GL in the Joker's-bombs-in-Las-Vegas episode. Should this be a power, or just a "special effect" of the power (if the latter, it's a pretty powerful special effect!!!)?

IMHO, FWIW (and IIRR applies too!).

Without checking the file: I did not think I gave her the Nth Metal belt, wonder if I posted the wrong file as the one listed here only has the restrainable lim on her wings...

Mantis

Dec 9th, '04, 06:41 PM

Without checking the file: I did not think I gave her the Nth Metal belt, wonder if I posted the wrong file as the one listed here only has the restrainable lim on her wings...

I didn't check either, to be honest :o, but there was a discussion of Hawkgirl's Flight up-thread which I actually had in mind, which I should have stated. My bad.

JmOz

Dec 9th, '04, 07:29 PM

Don't worry about it Mantis, been known to do that myself

Anyways, have to admit was really unhappy with Bats, so went back and removed the VPP, exchanged it for a more classical MP. Some items have been seen on the show (He used the knuckles vs the Martians, the tamper switch was also used once, etc...). Other Items were placed in for the sake of "this is cool". Same with the skills, still feel he needs more, but lets face facts, he is the most powerful member of the team and has almost no sweeping lims, he's tough to do

Animated Batman

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>STR</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23  </td><td>DEX</td><td>39</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>CON</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>BODY</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">28  </td><td>INT</td><td>18</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>EGO</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20/30  </td><td>PRE</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14  </td><td>COM</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/15  </td><td>PD</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/15  </td><td>ED</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4  </td><td>SPD</td><td>7</td></tr><tr><td align="right">8  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 120

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td>Bat Armor, all slots: OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">10  </td><td>1) Armor (5 PD/5 ED) (15 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>2) Cape: +2 with DCV (10 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">4  </td><td>3) +10 PRE (10 Active Points); To Scare Only (-1) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">20  </td><td>Utility Belt: Multipower, 30-point reserve, all slots: (30 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>1) Batlines: Swinging 20", Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>2) Batarangs: Energy Blast 6d6 (vs. PD) (30 Active Points); 6 Recoverable Charges (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>3) Exploding Batarangs: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6 (vs. ED), Penetrating (+1/2), Explosion (+1/2) (30 Active Points); 12 Charges (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>4) Smoke Bombs: Darkness to Sight Group 3" radius (30 Active Points); 6 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>5) Gas Bombs: Energy Blast 3d6 (vs. ED), No Normal Defense Standard (+1) (30 Active Points); 6 Charges (-3/4), Beam (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>6) Darts: Drain one Characteristic 1d6, 6 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each (+0), Variable Effect One Power At A Time (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute) (+1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (30 Active Points); Beam (-1/4), Can Be Missile Deflected (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>7) Flash Pellets: Flash 4d6 (Sight Group), Explosion (+1/2) (30 Active Points); 12 Charges (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>8) Energy Knuckles: Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>9) Tamper proof belt: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6 (vs. ED), Trigger (+1/4), +1 STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Penetrating (+1/2) (30 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), 12 Charges (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>10) Tracking Device: Detect A Class Of Things 15-, Increased Arc of Perception: 360-Degree, Range, Sense, Telescopic (+3), Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>11) Radio: High Range Radio Hearing (12 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>12) Skill Kits: +2 with all non-combat Skills (16 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 51

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Bat Fu </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>1) Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>2) Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>3) Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>4) Kick: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +4d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>5) Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; +10 STR to Disarm roll </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>6) Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>7) Weapon Element: Fist-Loads </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Zen Batarangs </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>1) Defensive Shot: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +2 DCV, Range +0, Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>2) Ranged Disarm: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Range +0, Disarm, +15 STR </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>3) Trip: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +0 DCV, Range +0, Strike +v/5, Target falls </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 35

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>+1 Batarangs </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Acrobatics 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Acting 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Breakfall 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Bugging 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Climbing 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Driving 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Combat Piloting 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Concealment 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Criminology 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles, Combat Aircraft, Helicopters, Small Motorized Boats, Small Planes, Spaceplanes, Two-Wheeled Motorized Ground Vehicles </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Deduction 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Demolitions 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Electronics 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Forensic Medicine 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>High Society 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Interrogation 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Inventor 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>Language: Japanese (fluent conversation) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Lockpicking 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Mechanics 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Paramedics 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Security Systems 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Shadowing 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Stealth 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Streetwise 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Systems Operation 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Tactics 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Teamwork 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>KS: Super Heroes & Villains (INT-based) 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>SS: Criminology (INT-based) 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>SS: Psycology (INT-based) 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>KS: Buisness World 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Traveler </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>1) CK: Gotham City (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>2) CuK: Gotham Citizens (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>3) CuK: Organised Crime (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 15- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>4) CuK: Martial Artist (2 Active Points) 11- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 113

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Fringe Benefit: Leader of Bat Team, Membership in the JL </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Money: Filthy Rich </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 25

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Talent</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED) </td></tr></table>Talents Cost: 6

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Alfred 8- (Normal; Useful noncombat position or skills) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Commisioner Gorden 8- (Normal; Useful noncombat position or skills; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Dependent NPC: Select Gotham PD (Harvey & Montoya) 8- (Normal; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID; Useful noncombat position or skills; Group DNPC: x2 DNPCs) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Joker 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Hunted: Ra's Ala Goul 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Rouge Gallery 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Gotham PD 8- (Mo Pow; Watching; Extensive Non-Combat Influence) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Mysterious & Enigmatic (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Code vs Killing (Common; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Drivin to protect Gotham City (Common; Strong) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Social Limitation: Secret ID (Frequently; Major) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x Effect Mental Attacks that use the memory of his parents (Uncommon) </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

Russell

Dec 9th, '04, 09:35 PM

Just for Fun here is a Blanaced 250pts SUPER MAN. Obiously all his powers are watered down but I belive the main ones are all here.

SUPERMAN

CHARACTERISTICS
60 STR 40 –¼ #
26 DEX 38 –¼ #
28 CON 29 –¼ #
12 BOD 3 -¼ #
10 INT 0
10 EGO 0
18 PRE 6 –¼ #
15 COM 2
12 PD 0
10 ED 3 -¼ #
6 SPD 17 –¼ #
18 REC 0
56 END 0
50 STN –5 –¼ #
TOTAL 133 pts

SKILLS/PERKS
2 P.S. REPORTER 11<
1 PERK (PRESS CREDENTIALS)
3 pts

POWERS
15 EC POWERS OF SUPERMAN
41 15Pd 15Ed ARMOR, HARDENED
15 15” FLIGHT
15 FULL LIFE SUPPORT
15 1D6 RKA, PENETRATING AUTO FIRE
80 pts -1/4 #

20 MULTI POWER (SUPER FAST)
2u x32 NON COMBAT FLIGHT
2u FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL
1u INSTANT CHANGE
20 pts -¼ #

20 N RAY VISION (LEAD)
10 +7” TELESCOPIC VISION
10 +7” TELESCOPIC HEARING
-½ NOT PERSISTENT
-½ FULL PHASE ACTIVATION
-½ COSTS END
-½ x2 END
12 pts -¼ #

3 ULTRA SONIC HEARING
2 pts -¼ #

# NOT IN THE PRESENCE OF
KRIPTONITE.

DISADVANTAGES
10 PUBLIC ID (SUPERMAN)
15 SECRET ID (CLARK KENT)
20 REP (GREAT AND VALIANT
SUPER HERO) 14< EXTREME
20 CODE AGAINST KILLING
20 PROTECTOR OF THE WORLD
20 HUNTED BY LEX LUTHOR 11<
15 DNPC LOIS LANE 11<
10 DNPC JIMMY 8<
10 SUSCEPTIBLE TO KRIPTONITE
3D6 EVERY 5 MINUTES
10 PATRIOTIC (USA)
150 pts

AngryBug

Dec 16th, '04, 08:05 PM

Awesome job on these write-ups, JmOz - I hope you know I'm stealing these!! :D
Some questions, though - so I don't have to go poking through the rules FAQ or bug Steve - about this Flash Power:
Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1) (50 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2)
How would this work in play, exactly?

"20 STR +4d6 Hand-to-Hand (at 0 END)= 8d6 Strike at 2 END" is simple enough, but how does the Autofire work?

Since Autofire isn't bought for the STR, does that make it an "8d6 at 2 END" Strike, plus 4 additional 4d6 Attacks at 0 END?
Or is the 4d6 from STR Autofire "for free" because of the additive nature of Hand-to-Hand Attack, so Flash can do Five 8d6 Strikes (for 10 END)?

Please help me, oh Champions Gurus, for this Bug is confused...

:think:

Hyper-Man

Dec 16th, '04, 08:21 PM

Awesome job on these write-ups, JmOz - I hope you know I'm stealing these!! :D
Some questions, though - so I don't have to go poking through the rules FAQ or bug Steve - about this Flash Power:
How would this work in play, exactly?

"20 STR +4d6 Hand-to-Hand (at 0 END)= 8d6 Strike at 2 END" is simple enough, but how does the Autofire work?

Since Autofire isn't bought for the STR, does that make it an "8d6 at 2 END" Strike, plus 4 additional 4d6 Attacks at 0 END?
Or is the 4d6 from STR Autofire "for free" because of the additive nature of Hand-to-Hand Attack, so Flash can do Five 8d6 Strikes (for 10 END)?

Please help me, oh Champions Gurus, for this Bug is confused...

:think:
I think I can help you out AngryBug,

Any advantages bought on HA's affect an equal amount of active points of STR for free. If you have a 5d6 HA (25 active points) and add Armor Piercing only to the HA active points:

[25 active *(+1.5 for AP)/(-1.5 for HA) = 25 real points]

you can use up to 25 STR and have a 10d6 AP punch but if you happen to have a higher STR you lose the AP advantage unless you buy it for the STR as well. I only really got this recently after Gary explained it to me as well.

HM

JmOz

Dec 16th, '04, 11:21 PM

I think I can help you out AngryBug,

Any advantages bought on HA's affect an equal amount of active points of STR for free. If you have a 5d6 HA (25 active points) and add Armor Piercing only to the HA active points:

[25 active *(+1.5 for AP)/(-1.5 for HA) = 25 real points]

you can use up to 25 STR and have a 10d6 AP punch but if you happen to have a higher STR you lose the AP advantage unless you buy it for the STR as well. I only really got this recently after Gary explained it to me as well.

HM

Hyperman has it right, except for one detail, you can limit yourself to the appropriate str (In his example 25) so if you had 30 Str you could still do a 10d6 AP attack

With the AF

Each punch is an 8d6
It would cost a total of 20 End as I understand it [5*(2 + 2)], However the rules for Str and AF confuse me at times, so it is possible that it would actualy be 12 (I beleive you are to charge for END on Str for each use of AF)

AngryBug

Dec 17th, '04, 07:23 PM

With the AF Each punch is an 8d6
It would cost a total of 20 End as I understand it [5*(2 + 2)], However the rules for Str and AF confuse me at times, so it is possible that it would actualy be 12 (I beleive you are to charge for END on Str for each use of AF)
So with the HA bought to 0 END, the END cost would be 10 (5 shots x 2)?

Or - wait a minute! - does the
Any advantages bought on HA's affect an equal amount of active points of STR for free.rule apply to Reduced END? It must, if it's an Advantage, right?

Five 8d6 Strikes at 0 END?

Hyper-Man

Dec 17th, '04, 08:23 PM

So with the HA bought to 0 END, the END cost would be 10 (5 shots x 2)?

Or - wait a minute! - does the rule apply to Reduced END? It must, if it's an Advantage, right?

Five 8d6 Strikes at 0 END? Actually,

Reduced End is the lone exception to the rule regarding Advantaged HA's.

according to the FAQ:
http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/rules/POWERS.htm

Q: Does a character who has Reduced Endurance (0 END) on his Hand-To-Hand Attack have to pay END for the STR he uses with it?<o ="">

</o> A: Yes.

HM

CDad

Dec 17th, '04, 08:36 PM

JmOz,

Any chance you could post the Batman .hdc?

JmOz

Dec 17th, '04, 08:43 PM

Merry Christmas

input.jack

May 14th, '05, 01:39 AM

JmOz, Im very impressed with these write-ups. I know that you occasionally had to "cut some corners" to get people in "on points" (as you mentioned with Batman), but overall the work is -really- impressive. I had been thinking of running a DC/WB campaign, myself, and while I had balked at the idea of having to write up the JLU.....youve really saved me alot of work, here :D

Seriously, thank you from all of us out in the Reffing trenches. This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes a thread like this a goldmine to come across!

*raises Dr. Pepper can*

I salute you!

JmOz

May 14th, '05, 04:12 AM

Thank you, I'm glad you like them. However in some ways it really was a team effect, many of the other posters here helped me to concrete my thinking on the characters.

Enjoy using them. By the way there is another thread around here where someone posted his version, but with out point caps...

CrosshairCollie

May 14th, '05, 07:24 PM

I supply thanks as well ... I'll definitely be using these as a good basis for the Council of Seven (as it were). Many thanks. :)

Greeter

Dec 31st, '07, 06:51 PM

Okay everyone the name of the thread is BUILDING The animated Justice League so lets get to building

Animated Superman

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val**</td><td>Char***</td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25/75**</td><td>STR</td><td>15</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23**</td><td>DEX</td><td>39</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25**</td><td>CON</td><td>30</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15**</td><td>BODY</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14**</td><td>INT</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td align="right">14**</td><td>EGO</td><td>8</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15**</td><td>PRE</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">16**</td><td>COM</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>*</td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">20/30**</td><td>PD</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20**</td><td>ED</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5**</td><td>SPD</td><td>17</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/20**</td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">50**</td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">50/75**</td><td>STUN</td><td>9</td></tr><td></td><td>*</td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"**</td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"**</td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5"/15"**</td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 150

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost**</td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">**</td><td>Kryptonian Powers, all slots: Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">24**</td><td>1) Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages +1/2) (30 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">40**</td><td>2) Superstrength: +50 STR (50 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right">5</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">21**</td><td>3) Invulnerability: Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Not Vs Magic (-1/2)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15**</td><td>4) Heat Vision: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6 (vs. ED) (30 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost 2x END (-1/2), Concentration 1/2 DCV (-1/4)*</td><td valign="top" align="right">6</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6**</td><td>5) Super Vision: Enhanced Perception (+4 to PER Rolls for Single Sense Group) (8 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5**</td><td>6) Super Vision: Telescopic +4 to PER Rolls (only to offset the Range Modifier) (Sight Group) (6 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3**</td><td>7) Super Hearing: Enhanced Perception (+2 to PER Rolls for Single Sense Group) (4 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3**</td><td>8) Super Hearing: Telescopic +4 to PER Rolls (only to offset the Range Modifier) (Normal Hearing) (4 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">12**</td><td>9) Super vision: Microscopic x1000 (Sight Group) (15 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">2**</td><td>10) Super Hearing: Ultrasonic Perception (3 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3**</td><td>11) Megascaled Sight: Megascale on normal sight (1"=1 KM); , Only when Var Advantage is used for Megascale (+0) (6 Active Points); Linked to Flight (-1/2)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">8**</td><td>12) X Ray Vision: N-Ray Perception (10 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">8**</td><td>13) Life Support , Extended Breathing, Safe in High Pressure, Safe in High Radiation, Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat (10 Active Points)*</td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 150

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost**</td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3**</td><td>Deduction 12-*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1**</td><td>Streetwise 8-*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3**</td><td>PS: Reporter (INT-based) 12-*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2**</td><td>CK: Metropolis 11-*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3**</td><td>Bureaucratics 12-*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3**</td><td>Conversation 12-*</td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 15

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost**</td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6**</td><td>Fringe Benefit: Membership of the JL, Press Pass*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4**</td><td>Reputation (A large group; 11-) +2/+2d6*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10**</td><td>Base (50 Base, 50 Disad)*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3**</td><td>Well-Connected*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1**</td><td>1) Contact (Contact has: useful Skills or resources) (2 Active Points) 8-*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3**</td><td>2) Contact (Contact has: useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) (4 Active Points) 11-*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4**</td><td>3) Contact (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has: useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) (5 Active Points) 11-*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4**</td><td>4) Contact (Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Very Good relationship with Contact) (5 Active Points) 11-*</td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 35

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val**</td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15**</td><td>Dependent NPC: Lois Lane 11- (Normal; Useful noncombat position or skills; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15**</td><td>Dependent NPC: Jimmy Olsen 8- (Normal; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15**</td><td>Hunted: Lex Luther 11- (Less Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence)*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20**</td><td>Hunted: Darkseid 8- (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence)*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10**</td><td>Hunted: Superman Rouge Gallery 8- (As Pow; Harshly Punish)*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25**</td><td>Susceptibility: Pressence of Kryptonite (4") 3d6 damage, per Phase (Uncommon)*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20**</td><td>Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing Common, Total*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15**</td><td>Social Limitation: Secret Identity Frequently (11-), Major*</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15**</td><td>Psychological Limitation: Protectve of Innocence (Common; Strong)*</td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

My guess is the above is the result of when the boards changed to the new code. Is there a simple way to edit this to make it look right once again? I was thinking of doing having my group meet the animated JLA and would love to use these characters.

JmOz

Dec 31st, '07, 07:02 PM

2 ways, copy & Paste it into a wordpad and save it as a .html

or if you have hero designer, the 7 files are in the thread for them

JmOz

Dec 31st, '07, 07:08 PM

Animated Superman

Player:

Val Char Cost
25/75 STR 15
23 DEX 39
25 CON 30
15 BODY 10
14 INT 4
14 EGO 8
15 PRE 5
16 COM 3

20/30 PD 5
20 ED 5
5 SPD 17
10/20 REC 0
50 END 0
50/75 STUN 9

6" RUN 0
2" SWIM 0
5"/15" LEAP 0
Characteristics Cost: 150

Cost Power
Kryptonian Powers, all slots Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
24 1) Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
40 2) Superstrength: +50 STR (50 Active Points); Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
21 3) Invulnerability: Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Not Vs Magic (-1/2), Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
15 4) Heat Vision: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6 (30 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (2x END; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
3 5) Super Vision: +4 PER with Single Sense Group (4 Active Points); Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
5 6) Super Vision: +4 versus Range Modifier for Sight Group (6 Active Points); Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
2 7) Super Hearing: +2 PER with Single Sense Group; Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
2 8) Super Hearing: +4 versus Range Modifier for Normal Hearing; Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
12 9) Super vision: Microscopic ( x1,000) with Sight Group (15 Active Points); Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
2 10) Super Hearing: Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group) (3 Active Points); Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
3 11) Megascaled Sight: Megascale on normal sight (1"=1 KM);, Only when Var Advantage is used for Megascale (+0) (6 Active Points); Linked (Flight; -1/2), Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
8 12) X Ray Vision: N-Ray Perception (Sight Group) (10 Active Points); Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
8 13) Life Support (Extended Breathing 1 END per 5 Minutes; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat) (10 Active Points); Not in the pressence (4") of Kryptonite or under the radiation of a red sun (-1/4)
Powers Cost: 145

Cost Skill
3 Deduction 12-
1 Streetwise 8-
3 PS: Reporter 12-
2 CK: Metropolis 11-
3 Bureaucratics 12-
3 Conversation 12-
Skills Cost: 15

Cost Perk
6 Fringe Benefit: Membership of the JL, Press Pass
4 Reputation (A large group) ; 11-, +2/+2d6
10 Base
3 Well-Connected
4 1) Contact (Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Very Good relationship with Contact) (5 Active Points) 11-
3 2) Contact (Contact has useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) (4 Active Points) 11-
4 3) Contact (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has useful Skills or resources, Good relationship with Contact) (5 Active Points) 11-
1 4) Contact (Contact has useful Skills or resources) (2 Active Points) 8-
Perks Cost: 35

Total Character Cost: 345

Pts. Disadvantage
15 Dependent NPC: Lois Lane 11- (Normal; Useful noncombat position or skills; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)
15 Dependent NPC: Jimmy Olsen 8- (Normal; Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID)
15 Hunted: Lex Luther 11- (Less Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)
20 Hunted: Darkseid 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)
10 Hunted: Superman Rouge Gallery 8- (As Pow, Harshly Punish)
25 Susceptibility: Pressence of Kryptonite (4"), 3d6 damage per Phase (Uncommon)
20 Psychological Limitation: Code Versus Killing Common, Total
15 Social Limitation: Secret Identity Frequently (11-), Major
15 Psychological Limitation: Protectve of Innocence (Common, Strong)
Disadvantage Points: 150
Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

Greeter

Dec 31st, '07, 07:09 PM

Thanks Jm, I didn't see the HD files until you mentioned them. :)

JmOz

Dec 31st, '07, 07:10 PM

Animated Wonder Woman

Player:

Val Char Cost
60 STR 50
25 DEX 45
25 CON 30
17 BODY 14
13 INT 3
12 EGO 4
15 PRE 5
22 COM 6

25 PD 10
20 ED 12
5 SPD 15
20 REC 6
50 END 0
60 STUN 0

6" RUN 0
2" SWIM 0
12" LEAP 0
Characteristics Cost: 200

Cost Power
18 Magic Lasso: Stretching 6", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); OAF (-1), No Noncombat Stretching (-1/4), No Velocity Damage (-1/4)
30 Flight: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages; +1/2) (30 Active Points)
27 Enchanted Bracelets: +11 with DCV (55 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), May not Attack (-1/2)
Powers Cost: 75

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver
4 Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 14d6 Strike
3 Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 12d6 +v/5, Target Falls
4 Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort
4 Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort
3 Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 70 STR for holding on
7 Weapon Element: Axes, Maces, Hammers, and Picks, Blades, Bracelets, Clubs, Lariots, Polearms and Spears, Staffs
Martial Arts Cost: 25

Cost Skill
6 Animal Handler (Bovines, Canines, Equines, Felines, Raptors) 12-
3 Climbing 14-
3 Combat Driving 14-
2 KS: Greek Mythology 11-
2 KS: Ancient Greece 11-
4 Language: Ancient Greek (idiomatic)
2 Language: Greek (fluent conversation)
3 Navigation (Air, Marine) 12-
3 Riding 14-
2 Survival (Temperate/Subtropical) 12-
3 Tracking 12-
0 TF: Chariots, Equines
6 WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons, Lariots, Staffs
Skills Cost: 39

Cost Perk
5 Fringe Benefit: Membership in the JL
Perks Cost: 5

Cost Talent
6 Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED)
Talents Cost: 6

Total Character Cost: 350

Pts. Disadvantage
25 Hunted: Ares, Greek God of War 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)
20 Hunted: Fury 11- (As Pow, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)
20 Psychological Limitation: Code of the Amazon (Common, Total)
15 Psychological Limitation: Naieve (Uncommon, Total)
30 Dependent NPC: Amazons 8- (Slightly Less Powerful than the PC; Group DNPC: x32 DNPCs)
0 Dependent NPC: Mother 8- (As powerful as the PC; Useful noncombat position or skills)
15 Psychological Limitation: Over confident (Very Common, Moderate)
15 Social Limitation: Public Identity Frequently (11-), Major
10 Social Limitation: Exiled (Occasionally, Severe, Not Limiting In Some Cultures)
Disadvantage Points: 150
Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

JmOz

Dec 31st, '07, 07:11 PM

Animated Flash

Player:

Val Char Cost
20 STR 10
36 DEX 78
20 CON 20
10 BODY 0
13 INT 3
12 EGO 4
13 PRE 3
14 COM 2

10/20 PD 0
10/20 ED 0
7 SPD 24
8 REC 0
40 END 0
30 STUN 0

20"/40" RUN 0
2" SWIM 0
4" LEAP 0
Characteristics Cost: 144

Cost Power
38 Running +14" (20"/40" total), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (38 Active Points)
20 Protective Field: Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); Linked (Running; -1/2)
15 Rapid ( x1,000) with Sight Group
15 Rapid ( x1,000) with Hearing Group (And Mouth)
50 Superspeed: Multipower, 50-point reserve
5u 1) Hyper Running I: Running +20" (20"/40" total), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (50 Active Points)
3u 2) Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1) (50 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2)
2u 3) Hyper Running II: Flight 10", Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Only In Contact With A Surface (-1/4)
2u 4) Hyper Running III: Flight 10", Megascale (1" = 10 km; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Only In Contact With A Surface (-1/4)
4u 5) Wind Blast: Energy Blast 5d6, Double Knockback (+3/4) (44 Active Points)
3u 6) Wind Blast II: Energy Blast 4d6, Does x1 1/2 Knockback (+1/2), Area Of Effect (7" Cone; +1) (50 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)
Powers Cost: 157

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver
5 Flying Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge All Attacks, Abort; FMove
5 Passing Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm, 30 STR to Disarm roll; FMove
5 Passing Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, 4d6 +v/5; FMove
5 Passing Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 4d6 +v/5; Target Falls; FMove
Martial Arts Cost: 20

Cost Skill
3 Breakfall 16-
3 Superspeed 16-
3 Sleight Of Hand 16-
Skills Cost: 9

Cost Perk
5 Fringe Benefit: Membership: JLA
Perks Cost: 5

Cost Talent
12 Combat Luck (6 PD/6 ED)
3 Lightning Calculator
Talents Cost: 15

Total Character Cost: 350

Pts. Disadvantage
5 Dependence: Food -10 Active Points from Affected Power (Very Common, 1 Hour)
15 Hunted: Gorilla Grodd 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)
10 Hunted: Flash Rouge Gallery 8- (As Pow, Harshly Punish)
15 Psychological Limitation: Overconfident (Common, Strong)
15 Psychological Limitation: Impulsive (Common, Strong)
20 Psychological Limitation: Code vs Killing (Common, Total)
5 Physical Limitation: Clumsy (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)
5 Rivalry: Professional (Other superfast individuals; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry)
15 Social Limitation: Secret ID (Frequently, Major)
10 Unluck: 2d6
35 Mystery Disadvantages (Hunteds/DNPC's
Disadvantage Points: 150
Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

JmOz

Dec 31st, '07, 07:14 PM

Animated Green Lantern

Player:

Val Char Cost
15 STR 5
23 DEX 39
20 CON 20
12 BODY 4
15 INT 5
23 EGO 26
15 PRE 5
12 COM 1

5/20 PD 2
5/20 ED 1
5 SPD 17
7 REC 0
40 END 0
30 STUN 0

6" RUN 0
2" SWIM 0
3" LEAP 0
Characteristics Cost: 125

Cost Power
167 Variable Power Pool, 90 base + 77 control cost, Cosmic (+2) (225 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2), Must Be recharged (-1/4)
0 1) Flight: Flight 10", Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (25 Active Points); Ring Limitations (-3/4), OIF (-1/2), Must Be recharged (-1/4) Real Cost: 10
0 2) Green Aura: Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); Ring Limitations (-3/4), OIF (-1/2), Must Be recharged (-1/4) Real Cost: 18
0 3) Energy Blast Or other Power: Energy Blast 12d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (75 Active Points); Ring Limitations (-3/4), OIF (-1/2), Must Be recharged (-1/4) Real Cost: 30
0 4) Green Aura II: Life Support (Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing) (19 Active Points); Ring Limitations (-3/4), OIF (-1/2), Must Be recharged (-1/4) Real Cost: 8
Powers Cost: 167

Cost Skill
10 +2 with Ranged Combat
3 Bureaucratics 12-
3 Combat Piloting 14-
3 PS: Soldier 12-
3 Navigation (Land, Space) 12-
3 Paramedics 12-
3 Shadowing 12-
3 Stealth 14-
3 Streetwise 12-
8 Survival (Temperate/Subtropical, Tropical, Desert, Urban) 12-
3 Tactics 12-
3 Teamwork 14-
2 WF: Small Arms
Skills Cost: 50

Cost Perk
5 Fringe Benefit: Membership in the JL
3 Fringe Benefit: Membership: GLC
Perks Cost: 8

Total Character Cost: 350

Pts. Disadvantage
10 Distinctive Features: Military Demaner (Stick up his uniform) (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
15 Hunted: Guardians of the Universe 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Watching)
15 Hunted: Star Saphire 8- (As Pow, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)
15 Hunted: Sinestro 8- (As Pow, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Harshly Punish)
5 Hunted: Katama Tui 8- (As Pow, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Watching)
5 Money: Poor
15 Psychological Limitation: Military Mindset (Very Common, Moderate)
15 Psychological Limitation: Protective of Home (Common, Strong)
10 Psychological Limitation: See's self as a Role Model (Common, Moderate)
10 Psychological Limitation: Patriotic (Common, Moderate)
15 Social Limitation: Subject to Orders (Frequently, Major)
10 Social Limitation: Public ID (Occasionally, Major)
5 Social Limitation: Subject to racisim (Occasionally, Minor)
5 Unluck: 1d6
Disadvantage Points: 150
Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

JmOz

Dec 31st, '07, 07:15 PM

Thanks Jm, I didn't see the HD files until you mentioned them. :)

Then I will stop posting them

Greeter

Dec 31st, '07, 07:18 PM

No need to stop. :) I enjoy being able to see them at a glance. Thank you for redoing them. :)

ScrewySquirrel

Jan 2nd, '08, 06:39 PM

how about a real challenge?

What about the rest of the expanded, JLU?

we saw about 20 others:

Green Arrow
Supergirl
Question
Huntress
Black Canary
Wildcat
Vigilante
Vixen
Shining Knight
Star Girl
S.T.R.I.P.E.
Aquaman
Mr. Terriffic
Captain Marvel
Captain Atom
The Atom
Atom Smasher
Steel
Fire
Hawkman
Metamorpho
Hawk
Dove
B'wana Beast
Red Tornado
Zatanna
Booster Gold (with Skeets!)
Enlongated Man

McCoy

Jan 2nd, '08, 07:04 PM

how about a real challenge?

What about the rest of the expanded, JLU?

we saw about 20 others:

Green Arrow
Supergirl
Question
Huntress
Black Canary
Wildcat
Vigilante
Vixen
Shining Knight
Star Girl
S.T.R.I.P.E.
Aquaman
Mr. Terriffic
Captain Marvel
Captain Atom
The Atom
Atom Smasher
Steel
Fire
Hawkman
Metamorpho
Hawk
Dove
B'wana Beast
Red Tornado
Zatanna
Booster Gold (with Skeets!)
Enlongated Man
The Question's main power is the ability to make Bruce Wayne say "Dude, lighten up!"

JmOz

Jan 2nd, '08, 07:42 PM

What Do You Want Me To Do Write Up The Whole Dcua?

Lord Liaden

Jan 2nd, '08, 08:24 PM

A bunch of the writeups from this thread, and others, were transfered to Susano's website, in easy-to-read format: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscomic/comicchar.html

ScrewySquirrel

Jan 2nd, '08, 09:13 PM

The Question's main power is the ability to make Bruce Wayne say "Dude, lighten up!"

What intrigues me is just how many of the characters in the DC universe, unlike Marvel, are truly 'supernormals' no mutant powers, no Magic, no alien tech, just their own wits and skills:

Batman (I disagree with ANY writeup that gives Bats any stats over 20)
Huntress
Question
Green Arrow
Vigilante
Wildcat

and arguably
Shining Knight
Star Girl
S.T.R.I.P.E.

assault

Jan 2nd, '08, 09:49 PM

Batman (I disagree with ANY writeup that gives Bats any stats over 20)

This is one of our most done to death subjects, incidentally.

Basically, there is a long history of characteristic inflation in Champions. Batman's characteristics need to rate him correctly relative to other characters, and allow him to behave in the way he does in the source material.

Of course, then you have to choose which source material you are using! (My personal benchmark tends to be early Silver Age, since it was an interesting period, and lots of stuff is available in cheap reprint editions.)

If you do go with "no stats over 20", then you need to make sure that all the other characters are built such that they don't have higher stats that aren't justified. After all, Bats is faster, smarter and stronger than most "superhumans", apart from those that specifically have super-speed, super-intelligence and super-strength.

Personally, I don't bother with this limit, and actually prohibit the Normal Character Maxima disadvantage in order to discourage this kind of argument.

Characters should have what they need to function as they should in the particular campaign they are in. The 20 limit might work in some cases, but is inadequate in others.

JmOz

Jan 2nd, '08, 10:02 PM

This is one of our most done to death subjects, incidentally.

Basically, there is a long history of characteristic inflation in Champions. Batman's characteristics need to rate him correctly relative to other characters, and allow him to behave in the way he does in the source material.

Of course, then you have to choose which source material you are using! (My personal benchmark tends to be early Silver Age, since it was an interesting period, and lots of stuff is available in cheap reprint editions.)

If you do go with "no stats over 20", then you need to make sure that all the other characters are built such that they don't have higher stats that aren't justified. After all, Bats is faster, smarter and stronger than most "superhumans", apart from those that specifically have super-speed, super-intelligence and super-strength.

Personally, I don't bother with this limit, and actually prohibit the Normal Character Maxima disadvantage in order to discourage this kind of argument.

Characters should have what they need to function as they should in the particular campaign they are in. The 20 limit might work in some cases, but is inadequate in others.

Stat inflation is a myth

JmOz

Jan 2nd, '08, 10:03 PM

What intrigues me is just how many of the characters in the DC universe, unlike Marvel, are truly 'supernormals' no mutant powers, no Magic, no alien tech, just their own wits and skills:

Batman (I disagree with ANY writeup that gives Bats any stats over 20)
Huntress
Question
Green Arrow
Vigilante
Wildcat

and arguably
Shining Knight
Star Girl
S.T.R.I.P.E.

NCM is not the max of human potential, never was ment to be, it is the point of diminishing gains, and that is as written,

Hyper-Man

Jan 2nd, '08, 10:09 PM

NCM is not the max of human potential, never was ment to be, it is the point of diminishing gains, and that is as written,

Yep.

30 is the closest thing to a 'max of human potential' for most* characteristics (* besides INT).

assault

Jan 2nd, '08, 10:10 PM

Stat inflation is a myth

Well, actually that is true. The benchmarks for what is "normal" were set in games like Espionage, after Champions was published and its benchmarks were established.

By those retrospective standards, the stats for Champions characters were inflated.

It should be noted, however, that those early stats are broadly compatible with those of most Standard Superheroic level characters these days. The inflation hasn't really worsened over time.

JmOz

Jan 3rd, '08, 03:40 AM

Well, actually that is true. The benchmarks for what is "normal" were set in games like Espionage, after Champions was published and its benchmarks were established.

By those retrospective standards, the stats for Champions characters were inflated.

It should be noted, however, that those early stats are broadly compatible with those of most Standard Superheroic level characters these days. The inflation hasn't really worsened over time.

Thank you for expanding on that for me, I was on my way out the door when I posted it.

I would still not use the word inflated, but rather scale. The default is a campaign where Supers are legendary in capability, well beyond that of normal men, even for the non powered crowd. Nothing wrong with a more down to earth approach, but not really inflated either.

JmOz

Jan 3rd, '08, 03:42 AM

What intrigues me is just how many of the characters in the DC universe, unlike Marvel, are truly 'supernormals' no mutant powers, no Magic, no alien tech, just their own wits and skills:

Batman (I disagree with ANY writeup that gives Bats any stats over 20)
Huntress
Question
Green Arrow
Vigilante
Wildcat

and arguably
Shining Knight
Star Girl
S.T.R.I.P.E.

And yet, DC Comics is considered the "Overpower" group while Marvel is the more "real". I always felt that DC had the more on both sides of the extreme with fewer mid grades, while Marvel had more midgrades. Or put another way DC had a larger spread

John Desmarais

Jan 3rd, '08, 07:25 AM

What Do You Want Me To Do Write Up The Whole Dcua?

Well, since you asked...

name_tamer

Jan 3rd, '08, 07:48 AM

What intrigues me is just how many of the characters in the DC universe, unlike Marvel, are truly 'supernormals' no mutant powers, no Magic, no alien tech, just their own wits and skills:

I agree, but it's not quite as one-sided as you portray:

Batman
Huntress
Question
Green Arrow
Vigilante
Wildcat
Shining Knight
Star Girl
S.T.R.I.P.E.

Captain America
Mockingbird
?
Hawkeye
Punisher
?
Black Knight
? - technically, she does use pretty outlandish tech
Iron Man

Also:
Black Widow
Nick Fury

Close but not quite making the criteria:
Black Cat
Black Panther
Moon Knight
Iron Fist

Of course, it would be very easy to add to the DC side as well...

ScrewySquirrel

Jan 7th, '08, 08:32 AM

This is one of our most done to death subjects, incidentally.

Basically, there is a long history of characteristic inflation in Champions. Batman's characteristics need to rate him correctly relative to other characters, and allow him to behave in the way he does in the source material.

Of course, then you have to choose which source material you are using! (My personal benchmark tends to be early Silver Age, since it was an interesting period, and lots of stuff is available in cheap reprint editions.)

If you do go with "no stats over 20", then you need to make sure that all the other characters are built such that they don't have higher stats that aren't justified. After all, Bats is faster, smarter and stronger than most "superhumans", apart from those that specifically have super-speed, super-intelligence and super-strength.

Personally, I don't bother with this limit, and actually prohibit the Normal Character Maxima disadvantage in order to discourage this kind of argument.

Characters should have what they need to function as they should in the particular campaign they are in. The 20 limit might work in some cases, but is inadequate in others.

IMHO this is nonsense:
Batman has 20 STR, 20 DEX, 20 BODY, 20 CON, 20 INT, 20 EGO, 20 PRE, and 20 COM. he's got NCM, but *everything* is a 20, his SPD is 4, his PD/ED is 8, his STUN and END are 40, and he has an 8 REC -- max normal human stats.

He has martial arts, Lightning Reflexes, MANY DCs and MANY overall skill levels

How many DC does he have? Enough to being him to do superhuman damage levels (probly 5 DCs for a standard 8-12d6 campaign)

He has maybe 10 overall levels (allowing him to push to DCV 21 on a full dodge) this also allows him to put +10 into any one skill he's working at that moment.

Batman is probably a 450-500 point character. The mistake is thinking that just because he's got normal Maxima that he's somehow less capable or built on fewer points. He's NOT. In the DC animate Universe, Batman was *FIRST* operating for nearly a decade before Superman started (BTS starts in 1992, with flashbacks to 1987), he's got 10 years experience on Superman.

Hyper-Man

Jan 7th, '08, 08:56 AM

... 20 STR, 20 DEX, 20 BODY, 20 CON, 20 INT, 20 EGO, 20 PRE, and 20 COM. he's got NCM, but *everything* is a 20, his SPD is 4, his PD/ED is 8, his STUN and END are 40, and he has an 8 REC -- max normal human stats.

Can you provide a page reference that indicates that 20 is the 'max normal human stats'?

ScrewySquirrel

Jan 7th, '08, 09:58 AM

Can you provide a page reference that indicates that 20 is the 'max normal human stats'?

by the name of the limitation.
Normal Maxima.

JmOz

Jan 7th, '08, 11:03 AM

by the name of the limitation.
Normal Maxima.

But not by the text of said limitation

Characters subject to Normal Characteristic Maxima must pay double to buy characteristics higher than Maximum Value

so the issue is not wether or not Batman should be able to buy stats but rather the cost of doing so. Then we get into an issue on something I like calling Fairness vs Concept, should a concept have to spend more points that another concept for the same gains. Trust me there are hundreds of threads on this, and the fact is no one will ever agree with it

JmOz

Jan 7th, '08, 11:05 AM

IMHO this is nonsense:
Batman has 20 STR, 20 DEX, 20 BODY, 20 CON, 20 INT, 20 EGO, 20 PRE, and 20 COM. he's got NCM, but *everything* is a 20, his SPD is 4, his PD/ED is 8, his STUN and END are 40, and he has an 8 REC -- max normal human stats.

He has martial arts, Lightning Reflexes, MANY DCs and MANY overall skill levels

How many DC does he have? Enough to being him to do superhuman damage levels (probly 5 DCs for a standard 8-12d6 campaign)

He has maybe 10 overall levels (allowing him to push to DCV 21 on a full dodge) this also allows him to put +10 into any one skill he's working at that moment.

Batman is probably a 450-500 point character. The mistake is thinking that just because he's got normal Maxima that he's somehow less capable or built on fewer points. He's NOT. In the DC animate Universe, Batman was *FIRST* operating for nearly a decade before Superman started (BTS starts in 1992, with flashbacks to 1987), he's got 10 years experience on Superman.

It's not wether or not he is built on fewer points, but on rather he has spent more points on getting to the same end

Hyper-Man

Jan 7th, '08, 02:53 PM

by the name of the limitation.
Normal Maxima.

Batman is not 'Normal'. He is extremely dedicated to being the best that he can be. He is for all practical purposes the textbook example of a character with the motivation and means to exceed the normal range of physical and mental capabilities of most if not all of his fellow humans.

Kenn

Jan 7th, '08, 03:28 PM

Still won't convince me he can lift more than, say, 1000 lbs. (21 STR).

Now can someone show me how to write-up a dead horse, seeing how we're prone to start beating on it?

assault

Jan 7th, '08, 03:58 PM

Still won't convince me he can lift more than, say, 1000 lbs. (21 STR).

STR is pretty much the only characteristic we have an objective measure for, and even it is a bit slippery.

I personally wouldn't give him more than 20 STR, but I wouldn't be offended if someone gave him 25.

JmOz

Jan 7th, '08, 04:07 PM

STR is pretty much the only characteristic we have an objective measure for, and even it is a bit slippery.

I personally wouldn't give him more than 20 STR, but I wouldn't be offended if someone gave him 25.

And also, it is probably his second lowest (after body)

His INT, EGO, PRE espesialy would be through the roof, much higher than the 20 limit...

assault

Jan 7th, '08, 04:16 PM

And also, it is probably his second lowest (after body)

And COM. :)

Actually, these days I tend to buy as much body as possible for Batman-like characters. It's part of my preferred Combat Luck+Damage Reduction technique for modelling characters that aren't bulletproof. They tend to take body relatively often.

His INT, EGO, PRE espesialy would be through the roof, much higher than the 20 limit...

In his higher powered versions, anyway. Like most characters, you need to define the source material you are working with.

Fedifensor

Jan 7th, '08, 04:35 PM

And also, it is probably his second lowest (after body)

His INT, EGO, PRE espesialy would be through the roof, much higher than the 20 limit...

Well, the one piece of evidence that comes to mind for higher than NCM stats is his fights with thugs. Your typical grunt will have a 2 SPD, possibly 3 (for better than average thugs). Batman acts more than twice as often as your typical thug, often with separate attacks that can't be classified as sweeps. I'd put him at a 5 to 6 SPD.

JmOz

Jan 7th, '08, 05:08 PM

my bats (animated) would have

Str 20, dex 23, Con 25, Body 17, Int 28, Ego 18, PER 25 (+10 for costume), Com 16, PD/ED 7+3 (Combat luck) +5 (Costume), speed 5

Hyper-Man

Oct 17th, '08, 09:18 AM

bump....

JmOz

Oct 17th, '08, 12:14 PM

This is a great thread, when I have time I will probably update the big 7 (Supes physical stats should be lower when he is effected by Kryptonite for example)

Cassandra

Oct 17th, '08, 01:02 PM

Here is my take on the Justice League. I just added Hawkgirl specifically for this thread.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1703536&postcount=2

Most of the members are DEX 18, SPD 4, and have PD 16/8r, ED 14/8r. I've used the Silver Age original characters but they can easily be adapted to the Justice League TV show characters.

Superman's superspeed is covered by his Flight (Variable Advantages with Megascale, Reduced END, and Usable Underwater Only). He is the strongest of the league with STR 60, and the highest PD at 24/12r. His EC is 16/8r, which means energy blast to affect him more. I gave him the ability to survive unaided in space for up to 50 Minutes (Extended Breathing 1 END/Minute). His Heat Vision and Cold Breath are covered with a EB 8d6 Variable Special Effects (Heat/Cold) and Variable Limitations (Beam Attack and No Knockback for Heat, and Must Spread Attack and Not in a Vacuum for Cold). His limitations are based on his origin, with Green Kryptonite or Red Solar Radiation removing his EB, Flight, and reducing his STR to 30. I know that's on the high side, but my reasoning is that part of his strength comes from Earth having lower gravity then Krypton, and his true Super STR coming from Yellow Sun Energy.

Batman has his utility belt with weapons (Batarangs, Smoke Grenades, Bolas, Sleep Gas), and modes of Transportation (Batmobile, Batplane, Batboat, and Batline). The rational is that he keeps his remote controls for each vehicle in the belt. For the most part they're used for Transportations. His Skills including Martial Arts, Interrogation, Bugging, and he's the only one with Lightning Reflexes so he moves before anyone except Flash or Wonder Woman. He has STR 20, DEX 20

Wonder Woman has STR 50, DEX 18 EGO 18 PD/ED 10. Her bracelets are an Armor +10 rPD/rED DEX +5 (NFC) Nonpersistent, Restrainable, OIF. I know that Wonder Woman is the reason Missile Deflection is in Champions in the first place, but my reasoning is that we've seen her use her bracelets not just for bullets and ranged attacks, but in hand to hand combat, and offensively as part of her Amazon training. She's immortal, and is not bothered by high pressure, intense cold/heat, and can old her breath for about ten minutes. Note that her bracelets are her only resistent defense.

Flash has STR 20 DEX 23 SPD 6. He has a multipower for all his speed tricks (Vibration EB, HA for Speed Punching, Desolid, Extra-Dimensional Movement. His EC contains a Flight Only in Contact with a Surface and Variable Advantages (Megascale and Reduced END Only) and Force Field which simulates avoiding attacks.

Green Lantern has STR 20 DEX 20 EGO 14 PD 8 ED 6. All his Powers come from his OIF Power Ring. I've given him Flight with Variable Advantages (Megascale, Reduced END, or Usable Underwater Only) and Persistend No END Force Field 8 rPD/rED. His Multipower has EB, Entangle, Force Wall, and Telekinesis. He also has FTL Movement and LS that allows him and 8 others to survive in Space or other hostile environments.

Aquaman has STR 30 DEX 20 EGO 14. His sea creature control powers are now a standard multipower he can only use at Sea, with [16c] (the Sea Creatures in the area he can summon), which are OIF. He can use them as Indirect attacks from any direction. Other then that he's a low level Brick with a HA +4d6 (personal fighting style) with underwater movement and LS. (He was an original member, and the eighth member in the "Hereafter" episode.)

Martian Manhunter has STR 30 DEX 18 CON 18 PD 8 ED 6. He has +25 STR (55 Total) from his multipower, which also has shape changing, invisibility, desolid, and 2" stretching. He also has Armor +8 rPD +8 rED, and Variable Advantages Flight. He loses his Armor, Flight, and Multipower when Surrounded by Fire (-1/4) as I thought just being in the presence of fire as a weakness was silly. He's more Silver Age then Justice League, but simulates the powers well.

Hawkgirl has STR 30, DEX 20. She's simular to Batman without the resources, gadgets or vehicles. She has Armor +5 rPD/rED and HA +2d6 from her mace. Hawkgirl is basically a flying Martial Artist.

Hyper-Man

Oct 17th, '08, 01:10 PM

This is a great thread, when I have time I will probably update the big 7 (Supes physical stats should be lower when he is effected by Kryptonite for example)

Just seeing the html attachments updated to board friendly versions would make me very happy. :D

Cassandra

Oct 18th, '08, 12:15 PM

I've always preferred building lower powered characters (250 Points or less) because I like the challenge of bringing my favorite comic book heroes to life on a budget.

For characters like Batman, Black Widow, Captain America, etc, I use the Normal Characteristics Maxima as a baseline for their characteristics. Most of their combat ability comes through training (Martial Arts) and weapons (Utility Belt, Wrist Blasters, Shield). In a stand up right none can survive against Superman or Wonder Woman, but they can use their skills to outmanuever their opponents and avoid damage while striking. It's up to the player to use what he's got to win.

Superpowered characters have raw force, and unusual powers but they need to know how to use them. Almost all have one weakness to exploit. How long would Superman last if Batman gets him in Kryptonite laced Batbolas for example.

Recenty I built Hawkgirl with STR 30 to reflect her Thanagarian nature. I took the extra cost for the STR so I could have the NCM disadvantage because he's basically human, just with enhanced STR. Now if you combine her mace and her martial arts offensive strike she can roll 12d6, the same as Superman's. Now while Superman can take more hits like that, he can also grab her and take Hawkgirl into the upper atmosphere or into a convient body of water and hold her until she can't breathe. That is unless she dodges his grab and sets him up for another martial strike . . .

My point is know your character, know your opponent, and win.

JmOz

Jul 18th, '09, 05:06 AM

Thread necromancy, I Know.

Getting ready for 6th edition, first thing I will be doing is converting the animated JLA, and to do it right (and as an excuse to watch them again =) ) I am going to be taking some notes and leaving them here

Secret Origins: JLA Season 1, episodes 1-3,
All Present

Superman

Flight
Superstrength (Ss)
SS: smashes open a 18" metal door, uses multiple punches
SS: Lifts small tank
Heat Vision used to weld back together batplane

Batman
See equipment list
Detective
Martial Artist
Skilled Pilot
Extremly Rich (Watchtower is a line item in the R&D section maybe a joke?)

Wonder Woman

Missile Deflection/Reflection
Flight
Super Strength (able to stop mother ship from flying away)
Very Long reach w/lasso

Green Lantern (all powers are assumed by ring)

telekinesis to Lift batplane
Force Wall
RKA
FF?

Flash

Super Running
Runs on water
Air blasts used to dispell gas
Runs up a wall

Hawkgirl

Winged Flight
Mace Extreme damage (smashes martian ships in single strike, damages mother ship)

Martian Manhunter

Telepathy
Change forms (Humanoid to humanoid)
Desolid
LS: Immune to aging, still needs to sleep
"the vision Trick" NND Attack
Mind Scan
"Mental Shield" used to hide batman from detection

In Blackest Night: JLA Season 1, episodes 4-5
Batman and Wonder Woman do not appear in these episodes

Superman

Basic Piloting
Heat Vision
Breath puts out a fire

Green Lantern (all powers are assumed by ring)

Member of the GLC
TK stops midsized sedan
Instant Change
RKA
TK used to pull out engine
FTL Flight
make ring fly to finger
Summon space bubble (Fw/Safe enviroment?)
Ring is powered by Main Battery, Main battery can effect ring power

Flash

Overall Penalty Skill levels vs time (super speed based)

Hawkgirl

Tough, KB through two walls and gets up easily
MA, brawler style
Minor Super Strength (Throws a GL through a wall w/o mace)

Martian Manhunter

Telepathy is galactic scale
Astrogation
Super Strength

Watchtower

Space Station
Detect things entering atmosphere

Javilin

Space craft
FTL
Boost earplugs?

JLA Equipment

IIF Comm system (Earplug)
Space Suits (LS safe in vacuumm, breath in vacuum)

steamteck

Jul 18th, '09, 07:30 AM

Still won't convince me he can lift more than, say, 1000 lbs. (21 STR).

Now can someone show me how to write-up a dead horse, seeing how we're prone to start beating on it?

Now to beat the dead horse some more. Personally can't convince me he has even a 20 STR. Really it all depends on your campaign scale. Mine is closer to Cassandra's but different higher level approaches are just as valid. My homage in my game exceeds 20 in IN. EGO and PRE but nothing else and not even 20 s in everything else except DEX.. Works in my campaign but would be completely pathetic in Enforcer's.

bubba smith

Jul 18th, '09, 08:00 AM

it was never mentioned i dont think but in the comics weren't thanagarians supposed to be twice as strong as earthmen?

Kenn

Jul 18th, '09, 04:39 PM

Now to beat the dead horse some more. Personally can't convince me he has even a 20 STR. Really it all depends on your campaign scale. Mine is closer to Cassandra's but different higher level approaches are just as valid. My homage in my game exceeds 20 in IN. EGO and PRE but nothing else and not even 20 s in everything else except DEX.. Works in my campaign but would be completely pathetic in Enforcer's.

My homage has a 19 STR, 20 DEX, 19 CON, 16 BODY, 23 INT, 20 EGO, 20 PRE, and a 16 COM.

In Enforcer's game she wouldn't even be a good sidekick.

Kenn

Jul 18th, '09, 04:40 PM

it was never mentioned i dont think but in the comics weren't thanagarians supposed to be twice as strong as earthmen?

I don't recall an amount being put on it, but generally strenger than Terrans, yes.

Also, anti-gravity belts made it hard to tell.

JmOz

Jul 18th, '09, 04:44 PM

more than twice, difference in gravity IIRC. According to the Atlas of the DC Universe for the old Mayfair game the average wingman would be Str 25 in Hero terms. Assuming it is fairly accurate, acounting for rounding type issues, etc... I would say the average thanagarian is x5 to a normal human STR, or +10 Str...

JmOz

Jul 18th, '09, 04:57 PM

The Enemy Below, Season 1, episodes 6-7

Featuring Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Batman. Guest Star Aquaman (Mera and Aquababy apear as well)

Javalin

Submersible
Scuba Masks

Green Lantern

Pilot
RKA
Force Bubble
LS High Pressure
LS: Breath Underwater/no need to breath
Flight Underwater/Swimming
Generate Light
Stealth
Force Wall
GL Grant Radiation Protection

Wonder Woman

LS High Pressure
SS Push Atlanteen Attack Sub
Pilot
Flight Underwater
SS: Destroys road to get to sewers
Missile Deflection/Reflection

Superman

LS High Pressure
SS: Push Atlanteen Attack Sub
Flight Underwater
Martian Manhunter
LS High Pressure
heat Vision
SS: uses boulder to cut through sub
Invulnerability
SS: Destroys sub

Martian Manhunter

LS High Pressure
Shapeshift (masquarades as Aquaman)
Desolid
Detective

Watchtower

View TV

Batman

Xeno Medicine
Very Scary
Detective

JLA

Earcoms

HawksmoorSD

Jul 21st, '09, 11:45 AM

JmOz I'm curious as to why you're doing the breakdown by episode arcs? Planning on doing definitive skill and powers lists are we? Because if you are I am so stea... borrowing your work when its done!! :thumbup:

JmOz

Jul 21st, '09, 02:39 PM

JmOz I'm curious as to why you're doing the breakdown by episode arcs? Planning on doing definitive skill and powers lists are we? Because if you are I am so stea... borrowing your work when its done!! :thumbup:

When I am done, I will probably compile the lists based off of season/character. I do it so when I write the characters up if I have a question I can go back to the episode to see what had happened. As for why story arc instead of single episode, when I watch I am watching the multipart episodes together in one sitting, so it is more natural for me to mark them together

As for stealing, be my guest...but be warned I have a tendancy to work on something then leave it unfinished and come back to it months (Or years) later

JmOz

Jul 25th, '09, 07:15 AM

Injustice for all, season 1, episodes 8-9
Featuring: Main Seven

Superman

Powers do not work in pressence of Kryptonite
Invulnerability
Flight
Super Strength

Batman

UT Belt: Lead lined compartment
Batmobile: fast car
UT belt: Swinglines
Cape(maybe costume): Fire retardent
UT Belt: Batarang
UT Belt: Electroshock Antitamper system (Trigger)
Criminal Psycology
Persuasion
Seduction
Explosives
Garage door opener for watchtower
Lockpicks
Filthy Rich

Wonder Woman

Grab at range with Lasso
Missile Deflection/reflection (Bracelets)
Super Strength

Green lantern

Telekinesis
Force Wall
Thermal Based Tracking

Flash

Super fast Runner
Quick Searching

Hawkgirl

Flight
Mace

Martian Manhunter

Shape Shift (Into Superman)
Medical
Desolid

Watchtower

Monitor TV Broadcast
Medbay, with antivenem, examination
Alarm Claxons

Javilin

Space Flight

JmOz

Jul 26th, '09, 12:34 PM

Paradice Lost, season 1, episodes 10-11
Wonder Woman, Flash, Batman, Superman, Martian Manhunter
note: 8 months after Secret Origins

Wonder Woman

Pilot
Braclets: Missile Deflection/Reflection Magical energy
KS Ancient Greece
Lasso: Used to extend range of grab
SS: Large stone Pillar
KS Greek Myth
WF Swords
Braclets used as shields
Is exiled from Paradice Island at the end of episode

Flash

Search building at superspeed
Wind blasts
Super Speed disarm
Superspeed dodge
Circle around doing multiple punches

Batman

Batcomputer can track Javilins (JLA Transport)
UT Belt: Swinglines
UT Belt: Exploding Batarangs

Martian Manhunter

Super Strength (KO's giant snake)
Desolification

Superman

Heat Vision used as a steady beam

Javilin

Radio

JLA

Earplug radios

JmOz

Jul 27th, '09, 11:31 AM

just an update, while I have not got them typed up, I am up to episode 17, and plan on getting to 19 or 21 today.

I will get them typed us sometime this week or next

JmOz

Aug 2nd, '09, 10:26 AM

UPDATE

Just finished watching season 1, will post them this week, then make a per charactger list, then I will start season 2

HawksmoorSD

Aug 3rd, '09, 03:07 PM

I'm curious as to how you got that Paradise Lost was 8 months after the Origin episodes?

JmOz

Aug 3rd, '09, 04:09 PM

Wonder Woman says that it has been 8 months sense she left paradice island, she left in secret origin, thus it has been 8 months.

Now I suspect that there are a few months between the last few scenes of secret origins (The time it took to build the watchtower)

JmOz

Aug 5th, '09, 03:35 PM

War World, season 1, episodes 12-13
Featuring Superman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, Hawk Girl

Watchtower

Probes Astroid, requires set up by team members
Comm System

JLA

Space suits
comms

Superman

Needs a spacesuit
Super Strength break chains, punch open a door, smash teeth of sea monster, breaks Axe, sestroys large rock slab
Melts axe with heat vision
Code vs Killing, loyal

Green Lantern

force Bubble
Life support for 2
Intersteller flight
track ships by ion trail
telekinesis
Life Support not persistant
Flight
Shield
Telekinesis Grab
Force Bubble, Flight, LS
Force Shield
Boxing
Analyze Fighting

Hawkgirl

Wings feel pain
Breaks glass on ship
Flight
Mace Destroys big machine

Martian Manhunter

Desolid
Invisible?
Shape Shift

JmOz

Aug 8th, '09, 03:42 PM

Brave & the Bold, episodes 14-15
Featuring Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Hawkgirl, Batman

Flash

flirtatious
Eats alot (calorie burning limitation)
Super Running
Creates Vortex to throw rubble up in the air
remove handcuffs (Desolid or lockpicking)
Impulsive
Caries 400 lbs
rewire mind control helm at superspeed

Green Lantern

TK a Mack Truck
Tracking with ring
Flight
Force Field
Energy Blast
Force Wall
Super Strength
Good Punch
Force Field UBO
Create Moat
Force Bubbles
Follows exhaust trail
Cutting tool
destroys missile by pulling wires

Watchtower
Comms

Sensors detect missing city

Javilin

Proximity sensors
GPS-
Navigation

Martian Manhunter

Desolid

Batman

Batcomputer: Detect energy sigs worldwide (Satalite posibility)
Utility Belt: Sense energy device
Lockpick in glove
UB: Bola
UB Swingline
UB: Lazer Batarang

Wonder Woman

Super Strength

Hawkgirl

Destroys missile in 2 strikes

JmOz

Aug 8th, '09, 04:13 PM

Fury, Season 1, episodes 16-17
Featuring: All Seven

Batman

UB: Swinglines
UB: Bola
UB: Batarang
UB: Batarang w/ line
Martial Arts
Stealth
Batplain: Flight
Batplain: Radio

Wonder Woman

Unfamiliar with Man's world
Amazon Code, including no stealing
DNPC: Amazon nation including mom (Hippolytia)
Flight/faster than a jet plain
missile deflection/reflection
Ranged Grab (lasso)
Super Strength (Tore off gun turret)

Hawkgirl

Flight

JLA:

Comm system earplugs

Green Lantern

Detect foot prints

Flash

Running

Watchtower

Medbay w/med scanner

Martian Manhunter

SS Medicine

Javilin

Spaceflight
energy blasts
Autopilot
VTOL

Hawkgirl

Mace for extra damage
electroshock when mace is grabed
Combat Pilot

JmOz

Aug 14th, '09, 11:25 PM

A Knight of Shadows, Season 1, Episode 18-19

Featuring: Batman, Flash, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter
Guest: Jason Blood, Etigan

Jason Blood

Immortal
Multiform to etigan, reversts to blood when KO'd
Occult Knowledge
KS Arthurian Times
Sense MAgic

Etigan

Fireblast
Speaks in rymme
enters a mental illuison to help dispell it
scares a dog
Magic Blasts
Creepy pressence
Clinging
turn people to ICe
Super Strength

Batman

UB Flashlight
WF Swords
Martial Arts
Pilot
UB Starlight binoculars
UB Batarang
UB Bola

Martian Manhunter

Locate people with telepathy
Shapeshift
Reads minds
Medical skill
moderate ego (Was taken over by Morganna le fey)
Desolid
super strength
Harden Self
Combat levels with Shape shift
telepathy based attack/Psi-torture
non persistant Mental Defence

Wonder Woman

Flight
Super Strength
range grab w/ lasso
KS Greek/roman art
Warrior Code
Braclets as a bracer

Flash

Skirt Chaser
Super speed running
interupt speed
Create wirlwind

Watchtower

High tech vault
Detect object location
comm system

Javilin

Space Flight
Comm systems
VTOL

JmOz

Aug 15th, '09, 12:02 AM

Metamorpho, Season 1, episode 20-21

Featuring: Superman, Batman, Hawkgirl, Maritan Manhunter
Guest: Metamorpho

Green Lantern

TK (Slows Bullet Train)
USMC Training
Flight
Cut truck in 2
Shield
Force Bubble
AF Energy Blasts

Metamorpho

USMC Training
Spending account from Stagg industries
Shape Shifting
Stretching
Super Strength
Freakish Appearence
Turn to liquid
Reflect/Redirect bullets (Rubber body)
Turn hand to rock
Turn hand to fire
Fireblast
Turns to a gas
Blades as hands
turns to kryptonite
Spring Legs
Hand Axe
Water/Gas arms
Fire Aura
Turn to water
Vuln to extreme cold
Diamond Hands
bulletproof
shift to spike ball
shoots ice
Acid Blasts
turn into KO Gas
change into any chemical
Regeneration from exploding

Hawkgirl

Throw Mace
Electroshock

Batman

Binocular device used to look at evidence, does not inhance range, but helps to analyze and find stuff
UB Chemical analyzer
Evidence kit
UB BOla

JLA

Earcoms work as cellphones

Superman

Invulnerability
Super Strength

Martian Manhunter

Read minds
Turn to dragon

JmOz

Aug 16th, '09, 07:17 AM

Last 3 episodes of season 1, and one of the greatest story arcs EVER done on the show, I present

The Savage Time, Season 1, Episodes 22-24
Featuring, The Big Seven, Batman only a cameo
Guest: Alternate Dimensional version of Batman

Superman

Pilot
Super Strength: Throws large equipmet, ripping through german warplanes (circa 1944), lifting trucks
Flight
Heat Vision

Green Lantern

Tows Javilin over intersteller distance
Ring needs charging based on use, runs out of power in this episode
Force Dome
Flight
Force Wall
USMC
Boxing
WF: Small arms
CSL's with Riffle
TF: Motorcycles
Strong, even without ring

Martian Manhunter

Sense Minds
Desolid
SS: Physics
Flight
Shapeshift to german soldier
Super strength
not vulnerable to fire

Wonder Woman

Ranged Grab with Lasso
Flight
Missile Deflection/Reflection
Super strength

Flash

Superspeed

Alternate Batman

KO Smoke

Hawkgirl

Flight
Throw's mace

Javilin

Space capable

JmOz

Aug 16th, '09, 07:35 AM

SUPERMAN.

Superman was rocketed from his doomed planet of Krypton to earth. On earth he was adopted by loving parents in the midwest (Kansas in the comics). He developed a number of powers and is considered one of the world's finest heroes

He had his own series that ran 3 seasons, introducing a much more indepth cast of villians and friends. The end of his own series includes a story about him being mind controled into being a villain. This episode is often sited as why his power level seems low.

Shown Abilities

Breath puts out a fire
Code vs Killing, loyal
Flight Underwater
Heat Vision melts axe
Heat Vision used as a steady beam
Heat Vision used to weld back together batplane
Hunted: Lex Luther
Invulnerability
LS High Pressure
Needs a spacesuit
Pilot
Powers do not work in pressence of Kryptonite
SS: Destroys sub
SS: Lifts small tank
SS: Push Atlanteen Attack Sub
SS: smashes open a 18" metal door, uses multiple punches
SS: uses boulder to cut through sub
Super Strength break chains, punch open a door, smash teeth of sea monster, breaks Axe, destroys large rock slab
Super Strength: Throws large equipmet, ripping through german warplanes (circa 1944), lifting trucks

Peregrine

Aug 16th, '09, 10:45 AM

Last 3 episodes of season 1, and one of the greatest story arcs EVER done on the show, I present

The Savage Time, Season 1, Episodes 22-24

I'm going to spoiler it:

Hawkgirl's story, which works itself out over all seven seasons, is the hands-down winner in this category. I started watching the animated JL, having heard a lot about it and people gushing about Hawkgirl, and wondered, "What's so special about Hawkgirl?" By the end of the series, I was in love like everyone else.

JmOz

Aug 16th, '09, 11:29 AM

Batman

Orphaned at a young age billionare Bruce Wayne trained his mind and body to a superhuman level.

Batman's series ran four years, and went into alot more detail on his rouge gallery, origin, friends, etc...

Shown Abilities

Criminal Psycology
Detective
Extremly Rich (Watchtower is a line item in the R&D section maybe a joke?)
Martial Artist
Persuasion
Seduction
Skilled Pilot
Stealth
Very Scary
WF Swords
Xeno Medicine
Note: Equipment is in another thread

JmOz

Aug 22nd, '09, 01:10 AM

So as I approach the speed that rivals the molecular speed of atoms when the temperture is -460 degrees ferenheit (aka Absolute Zero)

Here is she who is as Beutiful as Aphrodite, Stronger than Hercules, Wise as Athena and swifter than Mercury

Here are the details on Wonder Woman

Wonder Woman first leaves for Man's World in the episode Secret Origin. She steels the costume and braclets and basicaly runs away from home, feeling that "Man's world" needs her help.

She is extremly dedicated to her postion as princess, even when she is later exiled from the island (For bringing men to the island to save it)

She does not understand much of men's world. Especialy when she is dealing with men of a courser nature she does not seem to notice things like that the flash is a bit on the lecherous side. (Or she does a very good job of ignoring it)

The Notes

Amazon Code, including no stealing
Braclets as a bracer
Braclets used as shields
Braclets: Missile Deflection/Reflection Magical energy
DNPC: Amazon nation including mom (Hippolytia)
Flight Underwater
Flight/faster than a jet plain
Is exiled from Paradice Island at the end of episode
KS Ancient Greece
KS Greek Myth
KS Greek/roman art
Lasso: Very Long reach w/lasso
LS High Pressure
Pilot
SS Push Atlanteen Attack Sub
SS: Destroys road to get to sewers
SS: Large stone Pillar
Super Strength (able to stop mother ship from flying away)
Super Strength (Tore off gun turret)
Unfamiliar with Man's world
Warrior Code
WF Swords

AnotherSkip

Aug 22nd, '09, 07:42 PM

She Could be used to Greek men/gods attitude which makes some of the baser modern mortals appear... normal?

JmOz

Aug 22nd, '09, 08:35 PM

she could be used to greek men/gods attitude which makes some of the baser modern mortals appear... Normal?

good point