Mental Flash

[ghost-angel]

Just to make sure I'm thinking right...

Using Mental Flash on someone if, while they're still flashed, you hit them with another Mental Power they shouldn't be able to tell the source of the power - though they'll know a Mental Attack of some nature is being used they can't "see" where it's coming from...

What about the Mental Flash itself? Guy instinct says, yes they'll know the source of the Mental Flash when it's initially used..

I got that line of thought right?

(FWIW I'm building a 'Mentalist' type off the Blaster Archetype, mostly non-standard mental powers.)

[OddHat]

Unless the Mental Flash has IPE, the victim will know who hit them with it.

[ghost-angel]

That's what I thought... thnx.

(sometimes, ya just gotta double check)

[austenandrews]

The target will know who hit them, but will not be able to target them back. Correct?

[ghost-angel]

That's what I'm going with... They know where the Flash came from, but once Flashed they shouldn't be able to Mentally Track or Target the attacker. At that point only a Mental Damage Shield could get to the Attacker while Flashed.

[austenandrews]

That's an interesting question, though... is there any other sense that can replace Mental Awareness for targeting mental powers? Can touch or Mind Scan be used as alternatives?

[OddHat]

Y'know, for an interesting IPE for all your mental powers:

PSI Blindness: Mental Group Flash 5d6, Based On EGO Combat Value (Standard Defenses apply; +1), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2) (60 Active Points)

Unless the target has Mental Flash Def, he's screwed. He'll never know that he was attacked, and if he's hit he'll never know who hits him with any follow up attacks. Dark little trick.

[OddHat]

That's an interesting question, though... is there any other sense that can replace Mental Awareness for targeting mental powers? Can touch or Mind Scan be used as alternatives?

I think Mind Scan is in the Mental Sense Group. However, you could use touch to target your mental attacks at 1/2 ECV as a non-targetting sense. Maybe Sight as well.

[ghost-angel]

Y'know, for an interesting IPE for all your mental powers:

PSI Blindness: Hearing Group Flash 5d6, Based On EGO Combat Value (Standard Defenses apply; +1), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2) (60 Active Points)

Unless the target has Mental Flash Def, he's screwed. He'll never know that he was attacked, and if he's hit he'll never know who hits him with any follow up attacks. Dark little trick.
Why thank you ... that's kind of what I'm going for. I was figuring I needed IPE on the Mental Flash - you've confirmed it. (I really like that part of Hide Effects, that's truly evil...)

Other happy little tricks are Mental Darkness, Personal Immunity. Various Drains to Defenses and EGO and the coups de gras a standard Ego Blast.

It's a "how do you build an effective Mentalist without using Mind Control, Telepathy, Mind Scan and similar powers..." exercise. Using a basic Energy Blaster as a jumping board I went forth to create some truly different attacks.

[ghost-angel]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to OddHat again.

naturally.

[schir1964]

Y'know, for an interesting IPE for all your mental powers:

PSI Blindness: Mental Group Flash 5d6, Based On EGO Combat Value (Standard Defenses apply; +1), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2) (60 Active Points)

Unless the target has Mental Flash Def, he's screwed. He'll never know that he was attacked, and if he's hit he'll never know who hits him with any follow up attacks. Dark little trick.
And make it a Killing Flash Attack so that only Resistant Mental Defense will work against it. (8^D)

- Christopher Mullins

[radioKAOS]

I think Mind Scan is in the Mental Sense Group. However, you could use touch to target your mental attacks at 1/2 ECV as a non-targetting sense. Maybe Sight as well.

Um, but Sight is a/the targeting sense. Are we getting confused due to the fact that it's based on ECV rather than OCV? Does it being based on ECV negate the fact that sight is a human's main targeting sense?

Sure mental flash will disrupt the mental sense group, but that only includes Mental Awareness[Detect Mental Powers, Sense, Passive] and Mind Scan[Detect Minds, 360 Degrees, Targeting for Mental Powers, Active]. Neither of those are usually the sense used for targeting opponents with a BOECV type attack.

[OddHat]

Um, but Sight is a/the targeting sense. Are we getting confused due to the fact that it's based on ECV rather than OCV? Does it being based on ECV negate the fact that sight is a human's main targeting sense?

Sure mental flash will disrupt the mental sense group, but that only includes Mental Awareness[Detect Mental Powers, Sense, Passive] and Mind Scan[Detect Minds, 360 Degrees, Targeting for Mental Powers, Active]. Neither of those are usually the sense used for targeting opponents with a BOECV type attack.

Good point.

[ghost-angel]

That just means any attack you create as BOECV has to have IPE for the non-mental portion of the Visibility of the attack. Making effectively Visible to the Mental Group only.

BOECV uses the Line Of Sight Rules, which state you can use any Targeting sense to Target the Attack - and as long as they are Visible to Mental Only if can't discerne the source if your Mental Group is blinded in some fashion.

[austenandrews]

I don't know what the book rule is, but I've always assumed that the targeting sense was mental. That the LOS rule is a guideline for determining cover/occlusion, not that sight is the specifically the targeting sense. For instance, I might allow a mentalist to attack a guard leaning against the opposite side of a door. But that may just be me.

[ghost-angel]

There a buncha stuff working here... first, Targeting with mental powers. Line of Sight can use any Targeting Sense to attack someone, it doesn't need to be sight, in fact you don't need to "see" the target at all - just be able to target them somehow.

BOECV does not make a power inherently invisible like normal Mental Powers, so it still needs 3 Sense Groups, though obviously at this point Mental is going to be one of them. Leaving 2 Visible Sense Groups: Probably Sight and Hearing, but not necessarily.

So, with a standard BEOCV if you Mentally blind someone they can still sense the power with the other Sense Groups (see and hear it if the attacker has chosen those senses). Uless you make the power IPE at the +1/2 leve (I think that's right, could be +3/4) making it visible only to the Mental Group in which case a Mentally Blinded target can't detect the source of the power at all.

Which is the end result I'm aiming for.

[radioKAOS]

That just means any attack you create as BOECV has to have IPE for the non-mental portion of the Visibility of the attack. Making effectively Visible to the Mental Group only.

BOECV uses the Line Of Sight Rules, which state you can use any Targeting sense to Target the Attack - and as long as they are Visible to Mental Only if can't discerne the source if your Mental Group is blinded in some fashion.

Yeah, of course, I was overthinking it and jumped to the next step, which is to stop an enemy mentalist from attacking you back.

It's definately an interesting way of making your Mental attack invisible.

[ghost-angel]

To the target, yes. It's also a great way of possibly prevent a Mentalist from detecting you with Mind Scan and the like.

[prestidigitator]

Right. Mental Awareness has nothing to do with targetting Mental Powers. It has to do with being aware of the use and nature of other Mental Powers (which of course might bring to your awareness the existence of suitable--or unsuitable--targets, but is not necessary for actually attacking them).