2008 and Beyond Wish List

[lgguy]

I know a little bit of this has been going on in other threads, but now that the 2007 schedule is out, I was curious as to what specifically you guys wished was on the list and/or hope will be on the list in 2008 or even farther in the future. The type of discussion on the release schedule threads have centered on "I am going/not going to buy this" or "I wanted to see more Champions books". I want to know what particular titles you want to see. For instance, not to sound like a broken record, I want to see more of the Hero Timeline detailed in setting books (The Primeval Age, Galactic Federation, etc.) But I don't really know how many people share that want or what other people have been hoping for. Hopefully this will spark some interesting discussion. (And Steve, Darren, et al, feel free to chime in with stuff you would like to do too...we won't hold you to it (or try not to anyway) ;))

So...what book titles are you hoping to see the light of day at some point?

[BobGreenwade]

A few of mine (in no particular order):

Galactic Federation
The Atlantean Age
Swashbuckler Hero
The Ultimate Gadgeteer
The Ultimate Environment
Secrets Of Yengtao Temple
The Prehistoric Bestiary

(The last three aren't real likely, I know... but a guy can dream.)

[Mark Taylor]

Horror HERO, Cyber HERO. These are the two HERO System books I'd most like to see. I was disappointed at the former disappearing from the realease schedule (yes I'm aware of the reasons) and at the latter not appearing despite winning the recent poll. I really want to see these two books. Anything else HERO Games may choose to do is just icing on the cake.

[lgguy]

Another book which I thought might be kinda cool is Cave Hero. Yeah, it was listed as a joke on the "waiting for the 2007 list" thread, but I think a Hero treatment on the stuff covered by the old GURPS Ice Age would be interesting. Who knows, maybe not enough source material and too niche of a book. (Or maybe some of the themes could also apply to Post-Apocaplytic Hero and be covered in there).

[Susano]

Cyber Hero
Kazei 5 2.0
Anime Hero

[TheQuestionMan]

Cyber Hero
Kazei 5 2.0
Anime Hero
Yeah some of those and some of these.
Strike Force 2.0 Universe (Champions Setting Sourcebook)
PRIMUS 2.0 (5th Edition PRIMUS feels watered down so far.)
Danger International (Espionage Setting/Sourcebook)

And maybe a few of these.
Regency Hero
Victorian/Steampunk Hero
San Angelo: City of Heroes 5th Edition Revised

More Later

QM

[Lord Mhoram]

A few of mine (in no particular order):

Galactic Federation
Secrets Of Yengtao Temple
The Prehistoric Bestiary


I second these, and add:
Solar Hero (just to finish the Star Hero timeline)
Strike Force 2.0 would be cool.
I'd love to Shelly do the 5th ed Primus.
Cyber Hero and Kazei Five would be great too.

[Egyptoid]

a Dieties and Demigods equivalent for Fantasy Hero.

Take the major pantheons, like Japan, Egypt, Norse, Outer Gods of Chaos,
Roman, etc. and do several things:

write up the avatars of the gods.

detail what priests of these religions know.
such as spells, skills, KS, PS, perks, etc.

show what the cultures of these lands was like to live
in as a fantasy hero character.

[CorPse]

I'm always blown away by how good The Ultimate Series is...

In that spirit my one and only vote goes to:
The Ultimate Disad

So much of what a character truly IS lives in that little, often misunderstood, block in the corner of the character sheet. I wish more players would spend as much time crafting their DAs as they do their powers.

And it would also the ultimate cross-genre seller. How many campaigns don't use Disads?

Love & Kisses,
CorPse

[BobGreenwade]

Returning to the thread, I'll echo the PRIMUS update, Cyber Hero, and the FH Gods book.

Also, if we can, I'd like to see Space Pirates: The Vorsan Expanse. It seems that this region of space is the most popular among those gaming in the Terran Empire, in large part because of the intrigue of the area and the piracy that looms there.

[lgguy]

I really want The Primeval Age and The Atlantean Age both sound like pretty wild fantasy settings--especially the The Primeval Age with the Elder Worms and other weird Ctluthlu-esque powers. Even though people often complain that fantasy is overdone and there are too many fantasy settings out there, I think that the Fantasy Hero settings present a cool and refreshing twist to "standard" fantasy faire. For instance, the conflict between the two religions in The Turakian Age that was reminisent of Catholicism vs. Lutheranism in the Holy Romain Empire. And how many D&D settings have captured a feel anything like The Valdorian Age (except for maybe those really old TSR AD&D Conan modules). I can't wait to see what DOJ can do with the even more non-standard fantasy genres represented in the other Hero Universe timeline periods.

[megaplayboy]

Galactic Federation
Spacer's Toolkit 2
Cyber Hero
Horror Hero
Western Hero
Danger International
Ultimate Weapon
Ultimate Gadgeteer
Ultimate Base
A sourcebook on deities in the Heroverse, and notes on running/building/playing them
Legendary Champions--this would be two things--the first, a sourcebook of legendary superheroic NPCs in the CU; the second, a guidebook on running a legendary level game(or progressing to that level in a long running game) .
The Mutant World for champions

[name_tamer]

Galactic Federation
The Atlantean Age
Secrets Of Yengtao Temple

[Blue]

a Dieties and Demigods equivalent for Fantasy Hero.
I suddenly had a Flashback to the old Mythic Greece (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1558060022/002-4884452-3111219?v=glance&n=283155) product by ICE that had FH stats in it.

[John Desmarais]

I suddenly had a Flashback to the old Mythic Greece (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1558060022/002-4884452-3111219?v=glance&n=283155) product by ICE that had FH stats in it.

I loved that book. It, combined with Mythic Egypt, was the core setting for many Fantasy Hero games.

I'd buy a 5th Edition version of that in heartbeat.

[lgguy]

Sounds like combining both Mythic Greece and Mythic Egypt into one big book and throwing in maybe some other stuff would cover either the Age of Legends or Age of Heroes on the Hero Universe timeline. I love mythology--especially Egyptian. I agree with you John, I would buy that in a New York minute.

[megaplayboy]

that'd be a cool product...but I was thinking of something along the lines of The Primal Order for Hero System.:)

[BNakagawa]

I am contractually obligated to nominate The Ultimate Catgirl book.

Any good treatment of an anime hero book is also something I would look forward to.

[Susano]

I am contractually obligated to nominate The Ultimate Catgirl book.

Speaking of which....

http://k5pbem.devermore.net/pictures/Shoko2.jpg

What was the question again???

:love:

[megaplayboy]

It occurs to me that Hero system editions 1-3 had an 8 year run before 4th ed, 4th ed had about an 8 year run before that system which provokes violent rebuke...so, 6th ed. should be due in...2010:D

And our great-grandkids will be playing 12th edition Hero sometime in 2060. The rules will be delivered by automated forklift then.:D

[ghost-angel]

Pirate Hero.

[Susano]

Pirate Hero.

I'll second that.

[Peregrine]

I'll second PRIMUS and Secrets of Yengtao, and raise you ARGENT.

[lgguy]

What exactly is Secrets of Yengtao?

[Susano]

What exactly is Secrets of Yengtao?

It would be a source book for the Yengtao temple, a home for super-powered martial artists in the CU. The book would probably contain numerous martial artist NPCs and lots of cool powers and abilities.

[Silverbullet]

I'll second PRIMUS and Secrets of Yengtao, and raise you ARGENT.


Done! I call....

I'm up for:

Horrror Hero
Cyber Hero
Swashbuckler/Pirate Hero
Fantasy Europe
Victorian Hero/SteamHero
Western Hero
Deities & Demigods –anyone remember the old “Olympians” book for 4th ed.—I still have it
Classic Hero—the Greek/Egyptian
Kingdom of Champions--UK
Champions of the Rising Sun-- Japan
Champions of the Middle Kingdom--China
Chamipions Downunder-- if you don't know...

and Peregrine, I'm not kidding Primus and Argent...:help:

and, and Roman Hero... (I'll keep adding as I come up wth more):D


Finally—my Pulp Hero Games kicks off this Sunday!!!:rockon:

[lgguy]

Slightly off-topic but where can I find information about pre-5th Ed Hero books? I only found out about Hero a little bit after the 5th Ed came out. I usually look on pen-paper.net but either I am not searching right or they don't have a good list. Googling didn't come up with much for me either. I know that some of the books you guys have suggested were publishing for previous editions (i.e. Secrets of Yengtao, Danger International, Mythic Egypt, etc.) I am thinking that maybe I could satisfy my appetite for some of those things by tracking down the old books until they are (maybe) covered by a future 5th Ed book.

[BobGreenwade]

Secrets Of The Yengtao Temple seems to be getting a more enthusiastic response here than even I expected (I was the one who came up with the idea).

To tell the truth, it's something I'd really love to collaborate on with Mr. Surbrook.... ;)

[Susano]

Secrets Of The Yengtao Temple seems to be getting a more enthusiastic response here than even I expected (I was the one who came up with the idea).

To tell the truth, it's something I'd really love to collaborate on with Mr. Surbrook.... ;)

I have a large pile of stuff I could put into it. For a while I was working on an Ninja Hero Companion, with NPCs, styles, powers, maps, weapons, and what not.

[BobGreenwade]

I have a large pile of stuff I could put into it. For a while I was working on an Ninja Hero Companion, with NPCs, styles, powers, maps, weapons, and what not.For what I have in mind, I'd probably take the styles, powers, and weapons, and some of the what not. Personally I'd concentrate on the super-athletic abilities and mental disciplines, and let you concentrate on ch'i powers, mystical abilities, and so forth.... And probably a map of the temple itself, some NPCs, and a redux of the Watchers Of The Dragon scenario could round it out (with copious notes on using all of the above in Champions, Dark Champions, Pulp Hero, and other genres, of course).

Now if we can just convince the DOJ guys that it'd be a good idea.... :(

[Andrew Cermak]

For what I have in mind, I'd probably take the styles, powers, and weapons, and some of the what not. Personally I'd concentrate on the super-athletic abilities and mental disciplines, and let you concentrate on ch'i powers, mystical abilities, and so forth.... And probably a map of the temple itself, some NPCs, and a redux of the Watchers Of The Dragon scenario could round it out (with copious notes on using all of the above in Champions, Dark Champions, Pulp Hero, and other genres, of course).

Now if we can just convince the DOJ guys that it'd be a good idea.... :(

Good luck, because I'd buy that in a hot second. :thumbup:

[Hugh Neilson]

Good luck, because I'd buy that in a hot second. :thumbup:

I'd buy it.

[name_tamer]

Slightly off-topic but where can I find information about pre-5th Ed Hero books? I only found out about Hero a little bit after the 5th Ed came out. I usually look on pen-paper.net but either I am not searching right or they don't have a good list. Googling didn't come up with much for me either. I know that some of the books you guys have suggested were publishing for previous editions (i.e. Secrets of Yengtao, Danger International, Mythic Egypt, etc.) I am thinking that maybe I could satisfy my appetite for some of those things by tracking down the old books until they are (maybe) covered by a future 5th Ed book.

Here (http://rhinobunny.com/derek/champions/herogameslist.html) is a list of all Hero products, including pre-5th. (I beat Lord Liaden to the link! :rockon: ). Others may chime in with their sources; I've usually gone through eBay, although DOJ's online store does have a few pre-5th products for sale (https://secure.compnetco.com/herogames/browse.jsp?categoryID=3).

[Peregrine]

Done! I call....

I'm up for:

<snip to below>
Finally—my Pulp Hero Games kicks off this Sunday!!!:rockon:

Taking them one at a time:

Horror Hero - I don't like the horror genre in general, nor do I want to game in it. Pass.

Cyber Hero - I think this is a shrinking market segment, unless it 'reinvents' cyberpunk gaming in a way that Shadowrun and Cyberpunk v3.0 haven't.

Swashbuckler/Pirate Hero - I'm there.

Fantasy Europe - Not sure what you have in mind, but intriguing anyway.

Victorian Hero/SteamHero - Link it with Pulp Hero, too.

Western Hero - another dying genre for gaming; one that never really took off to begin with.

Deities & Demigods (anyone remember the old “Olympians” book for 4th ed.—I still have it) - Gods as supers or something else altogether?

Classic Hero—the Greek/Egyptian - not sure if (aside from historical setting-specific material) it is different enough from some of the 'wayback' FH settings.

Kingdom of Champions--UK
Champions of the Rising Sun-- Japan
Champions of the Middle Kingdom--China
Champions Downunder-- if you don't know...

Not sure if each of these would sell enough as a separate supplement. Champions Worldwide was a bit too broad in scope, though, so a middle ground (regional books - east Asia, South Pacific, etc.) might work.

[Peregrine]

For what I have in mind, I'd probably take the styles, powers, and weapons, and some of the what not. Personally I'd concentrate on the super-athletic abilities and mental disciplines, and let you concentrate on ch'i powers, mystical abilities, and so forth.... And probably a map of the temple itself, some NPCs, and a redux of the Watchers Of The Dragon scenario could round it out (with copious notes on using all of the above in Champions, Dark Champions, Pulp Hero, and other genres, of course).

Now if we can just convince the DOJ guys that it'd be a good idea.... :(

So write up the proposal and start negotiating. :)

[mallet]

So write up the proposal and start negotiating. :)


Is it really that easy?

No, seriously. How does it work for submitting ideas to DOJ? I have glanced over the Submitting Guidelines, but actual, first hand accounts of the process, wether sucessful or not, would be most interesting to hear about.

[Susano]

Is it really that easy?

No, seriously. How does it work for submitting ideas to DOJ? I have glanced over the Submitting Guidelines, but actual, first hand accounts of the process, wether sucessful or not, would be most interesting to hear about.

First, be clear about what you want to write. If it is for DOJ, be prepared for a rejection slip or a "not at this time". Not because of anything you did, or a slam on DOJ, but because Steve and the rest of DOJ have a very good idea of what they want to do. If it stats with Ultimate or ends in HERO, odds are you be told "no."

If you want to do it on your own and release it as a licensed product, you will have far better luck. I recommend a good proposal of about one paragraph, with a decent outline of desired contents if asked. Make sure you explain what the book will cover and be for.

[Teflon Billy]

My personal wish for 2008 is Horror Hero.

But only if it has a good section on the entire Supernatural Slasher genre. I of course want to see treatments for other genres, but I personally am not all that interested in a book that seeks to tell GMs how to run a "emotionally" scary game, I don't think that is the proper role of the book. That is up to the GM to do. I want a Horror Hero to give key aspects of the scenery (Slasher Horror: Powers and point levels for creating unstoppable killing machines, Victorian Monster Horror: Period info and sample classic monster info, etc...) That I think should be the main focus of the book.

Maybe a good chapter on how to set the mood, but not more than that.

I'd also like to see a Ultimate Profession, a book (thin one, maybe UMA size or so) of nothing but package deals for professions. Organized by era (ancient, middle ages, 18th century, etc...) or category (military, medical, academic, etc...)

Maybe even a new "Ultimate" style line of books devoted to Fantasy architypes. The Iconic Warrior, Iconic Rogue, etc...

TB

[Erkenfresh]

Cyber HERO!!!!

I'll write it if you let me (and I have the time). ;)

[kave99]

Secrets Of The Yengtao Temple seems to be getting a more enthusiastic response here than even I expected (I was the one who came up with the idea).

To tell the truth, it's something I'd really love to collaborate on with Mr. Surbrook.... ;)
you can add me to the preorder list now!!!!:thumbup:

[kave99]

[b]Yeah some of those and some of these.
Strike Force 2.0 Universe (Champions Setting Sourcebook)
PRIMUS 2.0 (5th Edition PRIMUS feels watered down so far.)
Danger International (Espionage Setting/Sourcebook)
QM
i will buy all of the above:thumbup:

[Lemurion]

I'd go for the following

Ultimate Disad (incredibly useful idea)
Victorian/Steampunk Hero
Star Hero: 1889 (Space: 1889 was a great setting and a Hero version would rock)

I'm not into Anime, so that doesn't appeal to me-- neither do Cyber Hero (I have the 4E version) or Horror Hero. I think with the latter two there's a problem that the cinematic action feel of Hero may not translate as well to the negative/pessimistic tone that those settings are geared towards.

[ghost-angel]

I have to throw this out...

My problem with something like Anime Hero is that Anime is not a genre - it's a Medium. A book that covered all the Genre's as Anime would be larger than 5ER I'd fear.

That and many Anime Elements are really Japanese Cultural Elements (lke why we see people sneeze, the importance of falling Cherry Blossoms, et cetera) which would not only be massively research intensive but also extremely cumbersome.

My wife has spent the past three years doing research on just Japanese Mythology in Anime and her pile of research is huge.

Anime is more than Big Eyes, Small Mouth, Have Mallet Will Travel.

[Susano]

I've said this before as well.

Comics book hero isn't Champions. It would be romance, westerns, detective stories, and so on. Superheroes just so happen to be the biggest aspect we (in the US) know of.

Anime (and manga) covers SF, fantasy, horror, sports, romance, sex, giant robots, high school hi-jinks, the supernatural, drama, comedy, martial arts....

Basically, everything you can think of.

That said, I'd love to work on "Anime Hero" the book, as I'd try to make it into a "gamer's guide" to the most useful in-game aspects of the medium (both anime and manga), and how to apply them to one's campaign. I wrote an article to that effect for... DH 8? (I think) and while it was a good start, I could have done so much more with it.

[ghost-angel]

What would be nice is if there were a section in each genre book that detailed how to give it an Anime Feel. I just don't believe a full Anime Hero book is feasable that would do it any justice.

[Susano]

Steve Long doesn't like anime (might go so far as to say "hates" it), so that will almost certainly never happen.

[ghost-angel]

I have to say... I hate about 60% of the Anime out there myself.

[Susano]

I don't hate, so much as ignore stuff that doesn't appeal to me. Anime and manga's strength is that it comes from a different culture and hits all genres, so you are exposed to a lot of new/different ideas and takes on subject matter. Also, it offers some exposure to different mythologies, folklore, and belief systems, allowing access to some very unusual concepts and settings.

And then there's the visual aspect of it, which I can get in to, others can't.

Lastly, manga titles aren't as open-ended as American comics, so there's a much better chance for change in a series, as opposed to superhero comics, where nothing really ever changes.

[Lord Mhoram]

I don't hate, so much as ignore stuff that doesn't appeal to me. Anime and manga's strength is that it comes from a different culture and hits all genres, so you are exposed to a lot of new/different ideas and takes on subject matter.

I'll give secondhand testimony to that. My wife, who has a degree in English lit, virtually stopped reading and watching moveis because she could see where the story went within the first 10 minutes, and it was just all boring to her. Then she discovered anime and manga, which she would exclaim happily about "I can't see where this is going".

[Steve Long]

Steve Long doesn't like anime (might go so far as to say "hates" it), so that will almost certainly never happen.

This is utterly incorrect.

The fact that I like or dislike something is meaningless most of the time. The question is whether we believe it will sell enough to justify the work done on it. If it were a question of what I like, we wouldn't be doing LLH, and we'd've done a whole slew of Dark Champions books already.

The only time "like" or "dislike" enters the equation is when we have two equally valid projects, once of which I like and one of which I don't. In that case I'm probably going to pick the one I like, for obvious reasons. That's part of the benefit of owning the company and being the Line Developer. ;)

At this time we don't see an "Anime Hero" being worth the effort, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I dislike anime. If our evaluation changes, we'll certainly give such a book due consideration.

[Susano]

This is utterly incorrect.

The fact that I like or dislike something is meaningless most of the time. The question is whether we believe it will sell enough to justify the work done on it. If it were a question of what I like, we wouldn't be doing LLH, and we'd've done a whole slew of Dark Champions books already.

The only time "like" or "dislike" enters the equation is when we have two equally valid projects, once of which I like and one of which I don't. In that case I'm probably going to pick the one I like, for obvious reasons. That's part of the benefit of owning the company and being the Line Developer. ;)

At this time we don't see an "Anime Hero" being worth the effort, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I dislike anime. If our evaluation changes, we'll certainly give such a book due consideration.

Okay, that makes perfect sense, and I wasn't trying to speak for you, but making a (partially) incorrect observation (and I should have quoted to give better context). But does that mean, say, PAH will see a section on post-apocolyptic anime? This is what I was referring to. Since you're not a fan, I don't see it being a part of your research, so I don't see what ghost-angel requested happening, i.e. there being a section in PAH (or any "xyz HERO") on how anime/manga treats the genre. Of course, I could be wrong, but it seemed logical, based on your interests (and the influence anime and manga has had on the genre). I mean, if for some reason DOJ did 5th Edition Robot Warriors then I'd fully expect the research to include a slew of anime, since that's where it all started, after all. But PAH? Not so much, since I can only think of 2-4 anime/manga titles off of the top of my head, and several of those aren't all that great.

And I'd like to think that at some point DOJ will decide on something like "Anime Hero," even if it is only Kazei 5 updated for 5th edition. The anime invasion started about 10 years ago, and is showing no signs of letting up, heck most major books stores have a manga section that dwarfs the comics trade section (not to mention the anime sections in video stores). It's a large market that crosses over with gamers with only BESM being the major attempt to tap it (and that RPG has issues IMO).

OTOH, DOJ also has a lot of valid "xyz HERO" books in mind as well, PAH, Cyber, Victorian, Western, Swashbuckling, and so on. And not even GURPS, the master of sourcebooks, has tried to do anything anime related (that I know of).

[ghost-angel]

And I'd like to think that at some point DOJ will decide on something like "Anime Hero," even if it is only Kazei 5 updated for 5th edition. The anime invasion started about 10 years ago, and is showing no signs of letting up, heck most major books stores have a manga section that dwarfs the comics trade section (not to mention the anime sections in video stores). It's a large market that crosses over with gamers with only BESM being the major attempt to tap it (and that RPG has issues IMO).
Correction on time frames (or, a really short history of Anime in the US):
The Cartoon/Fantasy Organization (C/FO) formed around 1977, a Gentleman by the name of Michael Burgess formed the Colorado (C/FOoD) chapter in 1982 bringing Anime over in as large a pile as he could manage after seeing Super Dimensional Fortress Macross at a Sci-Fi Con. In 1988 Anime International was formed, it as intended to split from C/FO and focus on Anime entirely, Denver AI (DAI) is and was the only actual chapter (there's a buncha drama in there... the stories are quite fun to listen to).
Some Anime Cons:
Project A-Kon started in 1990; Anime Expo started in 1992; Fanime started in 1994; Anime Weekend Atlanta (AWA) started in 1995.

The Invasion started 25 years ago... it picked up heavy steam 10 years ago.

(Anime Fan since 1992)

[Susano]

Correction on time frames (or, a really short history of Anime in the US):
The Cartoon/Fantasy Organization (C/FO) formed around 1977, a Gentleman by the name of Michael Burgess formed the Colorado (C/FOoD) chapter in 1982 bringing Anime over in as large a pile as he could manage after seeing Super Dimensional Fortress Macross at a Sci-Fi Con. In 1988 Anime International was formed, it as intended to split from C/FO and focus on Anime entirely, Denver AI (DAI) is and was the only actual chapter (there's a buncha drama in there... the stories are quite fun to listen to).
Some Anime Cons:
Project A-Kon started in 1990; Anime Expo started in 1992; Fanime started in 1994; Anime Weekend Atlanta (AWA) started in 1995.

The Invasion started 25 years ago... it picked up heavy steam 10 years ago.

(Anime Fan since 1992)

Good point. My "ten years" comment was in reflection with it starting to hit the mainstream -- such as official, licensed anime VHS tapes from AnimeEgo and (ugh) Streamline, as well as some of the earliest Studio Proteus manga translations.

I'd also like to state that while I am an anime/manga fan, I don't feel it is required to mention it in all or even any HERO products. But if there is an obvious influence and/or source of ideas then it would be nice to see a nod given. Obviously Ninja Hero was going to mention anime, manga, and video games, it's a huge part of the martial arts action-adventure genre. It would be nice to see Cyber Hero (if/when it comes out) do the same. Other books? Hard to say.

[Shike019]

I'd go for the following:

Cyber Hero
Swashbuckler/Pirate Hero
Fantasy Europe
Victorian Hero/SteamHero
Deities & Demigods
Classic Hero—the Greek/Egyptian
Champions of the Rising Sun-- Japan
Champions of the Middle Kingdom--China
Chamipions Downunder-- if you don't know...

[MPT]

Of those ideas suggested above, the ones I would buy (and the reasons) are...

Classic Hero / Mythic Hero / Mythic Greece / Mythic Egypt. Whatever it is called, one or more Hero books covering ancient civilizations would definitely be of interest (I have the original Mythic Greece and will be getting the two new Celtic books). Perhaps if it covered the more obscure civilizations it would be of more interest - e.g. Etruscans , Sumerians, Indus Valley.

Whilst Cyber Hero may be a dying genre, the companies, tech toys and internet/hacking rules are something that could be applied to Space Hero. Kazei 5 2.0 is also something I would like to see for the same reason.

A Dieties and Demigods equivalent (God Hero?) would be interesting, but only if (like The Primal Order) it allowed you to play as gods. I think that a write up of the avatars of the gods of different pantheons and their priests would not sell unless linked to the Classic Hero books described above. Being able to play a god, however, would be something different – although I can see problems with scale as characters can have so many options at high points costs that it can be difficult to both know your own characters abilities and to make their powers sufficiently different from every other character.

The new "Ultimate" style line of books devoted to Fantasy archetypes (Iconic Warrior, Iconic Rogue, etc.) sounds a great idea. The D20 system already has a number of companies who produce such books (e.g. Mongoose Publishing) so there is obviously a market for them. I would definitely be interested.

Secrets Of Yengtao Temple is an interesting idea. Personally I can not think of any types of martial artists and related powers/talents that have not already been included in other supplements. I hope BobGreenwade gets this off the ground to prove me wrong.

Whilst Spacer's Toolkit 2, The Ultimate Gadgeteer and The Ultimate Weapon are books I would be interested in, I suspect most people do not need any more tech toys.

Swashbuckler Hero / Pirate Hero. Yes - if Regency Hero does not already covers this - simply because I like the idea.

The Atlantean Age would be interesting as, from the official timeline, I assume this would be the Galactic Champions of the Fantasy Hero world.

The Mutant World for Champions is a very good idea. It would be of use in my Space Hero campaign, and could also be used as ideas for Fantasy Hero campaigns where Chaos (or its equivalent) exists.

The Primeval Age sounds like both a good Fantasy Hero campaign. It could also be a good replacement for Horror Hero - just take whatever rules, monsters, spells etc. that it contains and apply to either a Dark Champions or Pulp Hero campaign.

The Ultimate Base would be interesting, especially if it could be expanded to include running whole countries (which I think has been mooted in previous threads where this book has been mentioned).

The Ultimate Disadvantage, like The Ultimate Skill, is something that, for Heroic games, would be a major help in defining the roleplaying elements of a character.

The Ultimate Environment. Now that is an idea which peaks my interest. A battle in the Antarctic should feel and play different to a battle in the Jungle. If you add some more exotic environments (mud pools, bouncy castles, volcanic ash wastes) then I would certainly buy this.

The Ultimate Profession would be useful for GMs who wanted to quickly create NPCs and so gets my vote.

Victorian / Steampunk Hero, if it had a similar style to Pulp Hero, would be of interest.

...whereas I would be unlikely to buy ...

Anime Hero is not a genre I know.

The problem with Cave Hero / Prehistoric Bestiary is that your options for scenarios are rather limited.

Danger International, Horror Hero and Western Hero. I wonder how many roleplayers play these genres? Personally these are book I would consider buying to mine for ideas but are not something that I would run as a campaign.

Galactic Federation, Solar Hero and Space Pirates: The Vorsan Expanse are books I suspect I would not buy even through I am currently running a Space Hero campaign. I feel that such books would be mostly background, and that is what I like to create myself.

The assorted Champions Villains / Organisation books may be interesting, but as I do not run that genre, the ones that I have are enough for using in other genres.

[megaplayboy]

I think the problem with the original Danger International(otherwise an excellent book) was a lack of focus. If it focused on James Bond/mission Impossible style espionage/adventure genre stuff, I think that'd be pretty cool.

[Jeff T.]

Steve Long doesn't like anime (might go so far as to say "hates" it), so that will almost certainly never happen.

Great minds think alike. :thumbup:

[megaplayboy]

I used to think manga was awesome...and then I read some comics from Hong Kong. :hail:

[Steve Long]

I have the original Mythic Greece and will be getting the two new Celtic books

Just to make sure there's no misunderstanding, Tuala Morn is a fictional setting; it's not in any way historically accurate. It takes the flavor and feel of Celtic/Irish myths and legends, and to some extent history, but gleefully ignores or changes that history whenever I want to. ;)

The Celtic Bestiary has more of a nod to "historical accuracy" in that it will draw on all sorts of sources for folklore and legends and such, but it's still dealing with a largely ahistorical topic.

IOW, neither book is anything like the old Mythic Egypt or Mythic Greece, if that's what you're looking for.

[BobGreenwade]

Two things I should add...

1) What ever happened to the demand for a Pulp Hero Hudson City setting supplement? I'd sure grab that with little hesitation.

2) In another thread I mentioned Space Wizards, a tome I'd love to write for HG some day, taking place in the mid-4th Millennium to combine space opera and high fantasy. It's a genre-mashing I've wanted to put into a book for almost twenty years.

[rakehell]

I'd love to see an update of Strike Force. It's the only product I've seen, in this thread or on the release schedule, that I'd buy the day I saw it.

[FlashFighter]

Western Hero!

[BNakagawa]

This is utterly incorrect.

The fact that I like or dislike something is meaningless most of the time. The question is whether we believe it will sell enough to justify the work done on it. If it were a question of what I like, we wouldn't be doing LLH, and we'd've done a whole slew of Dark Champions books already.

The only time "like" or "dislike" enters the equation is when we have two equally valid projects, once of which I like and one of which I don't. In that case I'm probably going to pick the one I like, for obvious reasons. That's part of the benefit of owning the company and being the Line Developer. ;)

At this time we don't see an "Anime Hero" being worth the effort, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I dislike anime. If our evaluation changes, we'll certainly give such a book due consideration.

Here's where we disagree.

Obviously you allow your likes and dislikes to color your decisions on what will sell how many units, otherwise something like Lucha Hero or Regency Hero wouldn't be on the schedule above something like "Appeal-to-teeming-millions-of-anime-fans-Hero"

Of course, your definition of "equally valid projects" might differ from mine, but I submit that any Final Fantasy game is going to sell around 5-8 million units. Any rpg product that can sell to even 1% of that market is going to do pretty well by our standards.

It comes down to the philosophical debate on the relative merits of being a tiny player in a massive market or a dominant player in a miniscule one.

To an extent, it is also a decision of whether the potential upside outweighs the potential downside. It's obviously a dream scenario, but if you did publish a rpg product that tapped into the anime/video game market and sold 50-100 thousand of it, you'd be pretty much obligated to drop whatever else you planned on doing to support that line, by your own logic...

Obviously, you'd be swimming in cash, that being the upside. The downside is that you'd be pretty much forced to work on products you would, by your own admission, rather not be doing...

[Doug Limmer]

You might want to be careful about your "swimming in cash" assumptions. Guardians of Order put out an anime-style game called Big Eyes, Small Mouth that covered anime-style roleplaying very well (in my opinion). The last I heard, they weren't doing very well financially. Obviously, other factors can come into play, but selling an anime-based game certainly isn't an easy trip to the money factory.

[BobGreenwade]

You might want to be careful about your "swimming in cash" assumptions. Guardians of Order put out an anime-style game called Big Eyes, Small Mouth that covered anime-style roleplaying very well (in my opinion). The last I heard, they weren't doing very well financially. Obviously, other factors can come into play, but selling an anime-based game certainly isn't an easy trip to the money factory.One of those factors, as someone's pointed out, is how many games already cover the genre in question. I don't know whether that could play a part in explaining the situation with GOO and BESM, but it certainly would for Anime Hero (and Lucha Libre Hero).

[Teflon Billy]

Also, there are enough of us fantasy/sci-fi fans that think Anime is crap and will always be crap.

TB

[lgguy]

Someone else pointed this out on the boards (I can't find the quote at the moment): Anime is not a genre but a medium. People have been pointing to Lucha Libre Hero and asking "WTF, why not anime?". Now, I don't know much about lucha libre but from what I gather on the boards, it is a pretty well defined genre: masked wrestlers as almost-superheroes with lots of professional wrestling camp (i.e. faces and heels, etc.) I know that Lucha Libre fans will say that doesn't do it justice, but it does give me a good idea of what I can expect.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I don't generally like anime but there are a few exceptions. I do own the Sakura Diaries which I enjoyed because of my nostalgia over my time over in Japan through AFS several years ago. And, Bubblegum Crisis holds a special place in my heart because my used to watch it with my uncle with I was about 10. So you decide if I am biased or not.

What genre is anime, or to ask it another way, what would Anime Hero be about? Let's take the two titles above. Sakura Diaries is kind of a teenage melodrama/soap opera type love story with some humor and fan service nudity. Bubblegum Crisis is mecha/cyberpunk sci-fi. Now I do agree that "mecha" could define a genre (a la GURPS Mecha) as that is distinctly Japanese and different from any other sci-fi subgenre IMHO. But that is certainly not the whole of anime. You also have Ranma 1/2, Record of Lodoss War, Akira and then the anime-influenced worlds of Final Fantasy, and on and on. The only way I could see Anime Hero working is to have the book cover the Japanese anime twist on various genres or having an anime subgenre section in the various genre books (as was mentioned before also).

Still, to my way of thinking, asking for Anime Hero is like asking for Cartoon Hero. Is the book going to cover Family Guy, Bugs Bunny, Tiny Toons, He-Man, Care Bears, The Bernstein Bears, or Aqua Teen Hunger Force?

Anyway, I think the anime discussion has hijacked the thread somewhat but I wanted to put in my own two cents for what it's worth.

[FlashFighter]

And the nail was just hit on the head. Other companies have done "Anime Games", such as Big Eyes Small Mouth, or Random Anime, however, at the core, you just have a generic all purpose system wrapped with a few anime cliches, and anime style artwork. In essence, what people that are asking for Anime Hero are asking for is a new Hero core book with anime artwork and disads like "His Nose Bleeds Whenever He Sees A Hot Chick". It's stuff that can already be done in the Hero system.

[Susano]

You might want to be careful about your "swimming in cash" assumptions. Guardians of Order put out an anime-style game called Big Eyes, Small Mouth that covered anime-style roleplaying very well (in my opinion). The last I heard, they weren't doing very well financially. Obviously, other factors can come into play, but selling an anime-based game certainly isn't an easy trip to the money factory.

I'd submit buying a number of questionable licenses, and then suffering issues with the US/Canadian exchange rate had a lot to do with it.

[Susano]

What genre is anime, or to ask it another way, what would Anime Hero be about? Let's take the two titles above. Sakura Diaries is kind of a teenage melodrama/soap opera type love story with some humor and fan service nudity. Bubblegum Crisis is mecha/cyberpunk sci-fi. Now I do agree that "mecha" could define a genre (a la GURPS Mecha) as that is distinctly Japanese and different from any other sci-fi subgenre IMHO. But that is certainly not the whole of anime. You also have Ranma 1/2, Record of Lodoss War, Akira and then the anime-influenced worlds of Final Fantasy, and on and on. The only way I could see Anime Hero working is to have the book cover the Japanese anime twist on various genres or having an anime subgenre section in the various genre books (as was mentioned before also).

If allowed to do an anime for HERO book, I'd basically take my anime article seen in DH 8 and expand it. Look at the major genres and how anime (usually) treats them. Look at various anime stereo/archtypes and how to build them. How anime tends to handle magic and esper powers. Anime and mecha. The book would cover a slew of genres and sub-genres, and wouldn't be a stand-alone genre book, but more an supplement to all other HERO genre books. I think it is doable, and a valid concept, if only to tap into the growing anime/manga market.

Either that or put out Kazei 5 2.0, one anime-inspired near-future cyberpunkish setting with all the fun anime trimmings (espers, hardsuits, cyberdroids, catgirls, and so on).

[Susano]

Also, there are enough of us fantasy/sci-fi fans that think Anime is crap and will always be crap.

90% of everything is crap. Heck, 90% of the comics, movies, books, and music being made today is crap.

[Lord Mhoram]

90% of everything is crap. Heck, 90% of the comics, movies, books, and music being made today is crap.

Gotta love Sturgeon's law.

[Susano]

Also, there are enough of us fantasy/sci-fi fans that think Anime is crap and will always be crap.

I will say this.... Cowboy Bebop is one of two anime that I'm fairly sure even "anime haters" will like. The other is Ninja Scroll (which even Steve Long has admitted to liking and/or not hating). Mainly because both of them have a strong action movie feel to them, as opposed to a more obscure Japanese culture angle.

[Lord Mhoram]

I will say this.... Cowboy Bebop is one of two anime that I'm fairly sure even "anime haters" will like. The other is Ninja Scroll (which even Steve Long has admitted to liking and/or not hating). Mainly because both of them have a strong action movie feel to them, as opposed to a more obscure Japanese culture angle.

I'm not much of an anime fan (that distinction belongs to my wife in our household), but I do like a number of series, and Cowboy Bebop is one of the best. I'll never watch it again*, but it is amazing.

Ninja Scroll ... well I avoid R rated movies in general, and while the opening bridge scene was pretty cool, the next few scenes turned me off the movie so strongly, I'll never watch it... just not my type of show.




* spoiler



Spoiler



spoiler


The ending is just to dang sad and depressing.

[Susano]

I'm not much of an anime fan (that distinction belongs to my wife in our household), but I do like a number of series, and Cowboy Bebop is one of the best. I'll never watch it again*, but it is amazing.

Ninja Scroll ... well I avoid R rated movies in general, and while the opening bridge scene was pretty cool, the next few scenes turned me off the movie so strongly, I'll never watch it... just not my type of show.

The movie is an R-rated animated film, and has quite a bit of blood, as well as nudity, a sex scene, and an attempted rape. It is not for some people, no.

[Lord Mhoram]

The movie is an R-rated animated film, and has quite a bit of blood, as well as nudity, a sex scene, and an attempted rape. It is not for some people, no.

Yep. I didn't know that, and just started watching, based on recomendations.

Oooops. :)

It was my bad for not paying attention. I prefer the lighter stuff (I bought all the Yu Yu and enjoyed them for example).


But I will tell anyone even remotely interested to go see Cowboy Bebop. Among the best stuff I have ever seen.

[lgguy]

If allowed to do an anime for HERO book, I'd basically take my anime article seen in DH 8 and expand it. Look at the major genres and how anime (usually) treats them. Look at various anime stereo/archtypes and how to build them. How anime tends to handle magic and esper powers. Anime and mecha. The book would cover a slew of genres and sub-genres, and wouldn't be a stand-alone genre book, but more an supplement to all other HERO genre books. I think it is doable, and a valid concept, if only to tap into the growing anime/manga market.

Lest I am misunderstood, I am not against such a concept per se and it could be interesting in its own right. I just see why Lucha Libre Hero would be done first and why Anime Hero would be much lower on the totem pole. There are a lot of genres left to get the 5th Ed Hero treatment.

Of course, I like the setting books the most. In fact, I think your Kazei 5 2.0 idea has the most merit as a setting book--maybe with a couple of chapters about anime and other genres.

Bring on the setting books, Steve! I can't wait to get my hands on The Primeval Era or Fantasy Primeval or whatever its going to be called. I have been teased too long with the little tibits in the GM's Vault in The Turakian Age and The Valdorian Age! :D (I know they aren't the best sellers, just personal preference ;))

[Steve Long]

Bring on the setting books, Steve! I can't wait to get my hands on The Primeval Era or Fantasy Primeval or whatever its going to be called.

We're doing our bestest. ;)

Actually I suspect that of the Fantasy-era settings not yet scheduled, The Atlantean Age would be done first, or at least before the Primeval Age one. I think it would be of more interest to a larger number of gamers. But you never know what sort of inspiration may strike. :hex:

[BobGreenwade]

Actually I suspect that of the Fantasy-era settings not yet scheduled, The Atlantean Age would be done first, or at least before the Primeval Age one. I think it would be of more interest to a larger number of gamers.I could take either one. For that matter I could probably write either one (though I imagine this is something you'll want to hold on for in-house writing).

[mallet]

Cavemen vs. Astronauts Hero

[Darren Watts]

Do the astronauts have guns? dw

[GestaltBennie]

Do the astronauts have guns? dw

Following this question to its logical conclusion, will 6th Edition be named Illyria?