Futzing with Licensed Properties

[CrosshairCollie]

Just something I was wondering about ... when running or playing in a game that takes place in a licensed-property universe, how important do you think it is to keep things as they were created?

I'm probably not explaining myself well (big shock!), so let me use an example that my wife suffered through. Serenity game. She's playing the ship's captain, who is a reader. As she explained it to me, at BEST, she should be a minor empath ... in the mechanics of the game, she gets a bonus to trying to interpret people's emotions, but she can't go full out Deanna "I sense hostility" Troi type empathy. She took the 'minor' reader trait.

The Major reader trait is the one exemplified by the one on the show (whatever her name was) ... which makes her a somewhat more powerful empath, but still just an EMPATH. However, an NPC fumbled along who is, apparently, a world-class Telepath of superheroic proportions, who could read thoughts and answer sentences before they were asked, and even mimic skills when the characters in question weren't using them, and using them BETTER than the characters she was mimicking.

As I understand it, this is way, way, WAY beyond anything that's supposed to be canonical for Firefly (not that I'm an expert). Add to that the fact that I understand the Alliance troops to be professional, competent, straight-faced and impressive (rather than the blustering crapheads who infested the game and admitted that a civilian was scaring them ****less), and I can't see where it could really feel like the source material.

Now, I understand the general principle of 'It's his game, he can do what he wants', but if you're going to just throw the established feel of a property out, why bother playing in that property? If I want to play in the Star Wars universe, I want the Star Wars feel, not just the presence of lightsabers and X-Wings. If I'm in the Marvel Universe and I'm a mutant, I should get spat on; if I'm in the DCU and I'm a real hero, I shouldn't be.

Random thoughtwaves out, now accepting same.

[Lord Mhoram]

I voted "appropriate but nothing to out there". I'd throw in any huge curveball, assuming it fit within style and theme, and most importantly, mood of the source literature.

[Thia Halmades]

Two questions I'm picking up here: Is it okay to nerk around with Firefly, and speaking of sources in general, what's right, what's wrong?

In Firefly we're well aware that the government is all about experimentation; nothing says that they couldn't create a super-path beyond what the world had seen before, especially as a major NPC. Being an expert on the series is simple; watch all sixteen episodes and Serenity. Voila. What you get from that world is a very gritty sci-fi setting that is really "Wild West in Spaaaaaaaaaaace." It's very heroic, at times over the top. Generally well-done material, although I spit on Serenity (I much preferred the series).

Super-soldiers seem to abound, but only if they're black. Psionics are possible and those with potential are caught and tested on (see also: Babylon 5, which sounds like the source the GM was infusing.) You can go outside of what's been shown in genre without breaking the source material. For example, while I generally don't read many Star Wars novels, I've been told some nutter put together a book about a ... "Sun Crusher" IIRC, a device about the size of a snub-fighter with the power of a Death Star.

By canon? OH HELL NO. Street legal? It's crazy but hey, I probably wouldn't bat an eyelash at it. it's about tech and the struggle of good vs. evil more than anything else. Those are the things that comprise that setting. If Mr. Telepath opens up avenues to be heroic, than yes, he's part of that setting and I'd roll with it. But that's me.

[CrosshairCollie]

Two questions I'm picking up here: Is it okay to nerk around with Firefly, and speaking of sources in general, what's right, what's wrong?

In Firefly we're well aware that the government is all about experimentation; nothing says that they couldn't create a super-path beyond what the world had seen before, especially as a major NPC. Being an expert on the series is simple; watch all sixteen episodes and Serenity. Voila. What you get from that world is a very gritty sci-fi setting that is really "Wild West in Spaaaaaaaaaaace." It's very heroic, at times over the top. Generally well-done material, although I spit on Serenity (I much preferred the series).

Super-soldiers seem to abound, but only if they're black. Psionics are possible and those with potential are caught and tested on (see also: Babylon 5, which sounds like the source the GM was infusing.) You can go outside of what's been shown in genre without breaking the source material. For example, while I generally don't read many Star Wars novels, I've been told some nutter put together a book about a ... "Sun Crusher" IIRC, a device about the size of a snub-fighter with the power of a Death Star.

By canon? OH HELL NO. Street legal? It's crazy but hey, I probably wouldn't bat an eyelash at it. it's about tech and the struggle of good vs. evil more than anything else. Those are the things that comprise that setting. If Mr. Telepath opens up avenues to be heroic, than yes, he's part of that setting and I'd roll with it. But that's me.

Actually, the NPC in question is most likely, going off past experiences I've had with this GM, a hyper-competent Mary Sue that will take over the game and do everything for the PCs, reducing them to spectator status when they should be the stars. He's done it before (and we've told him how much it ticks us off), but my Mary Sue sense is tingling something fierce. The character's only a major NPC because she's a plot point at this stage of the game (her father hired the ship to usher her away from her mother, and he died in a very railroaded scene, but that's another rant).

As far as Firefly goes ... I really couldn't care less if he jerks around with it, 'cause I really don't like the series. Apparently, it's a Joss Whedon thing ... I haven't liked anything he's done. Not Buffy, not Angel, not Firefly. I just grabbed that as the most recent example of 'you know, something tells me this really doesn't feel right in that universe'.

(This was the Serenity game I bowed out of; see 'Do You Like Screwing Up The Universe?' thread, below.)

[Blue]

If I bothered to run a game based in someone else's universe, I'd probably not change it too much. I think if I said, "Hey, wanna play some Marvel Characters" then proceeded to destroy the Marvel Universe, it would be like bait-n-switch on my players.

[CrosshairCollie]

If I bothered to run a game based in someone else's universe, I'd probably not change it too much. I think if I said, "Hey, wanna play some Marvel Characters" then proceeded to destroy the Marvel Universe, it would be like bait-n-switch on my players.

Exactly.

[BlackSword]

Actually, the NPC in question is most likely, going off past experiences I've had with this GM, a hyper-competent Mary Sue that will take over the game and do everything for the PCs, reducing them to spectator status when they should be the stars. He's done it before (and we've told him how much it ticks us off), but my Mary Sue sense is tingling something fierce. The character's only a major NPC because she's a plot point at this stage of the game (her father hired the ship to usher her away from her mother, and he died in a very railroaded scene, but that's another rant).
In general I would say that if a game is being played in a liscenced setting, it should fit fairly well within the bounds of the 'canon' material. Afterall, part of the reason for going with a liscenced setting is that its likely all of hte players are familar with the setting, or could become familar watching the series (or reading the books). On the other hand, even being familiar with all the canon material, there are still large gaps in the 'universe' that are never explored, so there is an area for new twists.

On the other hand, the Mary-Sue described doesn't sound like it falls within the series, or the feel of a gritty sf universe. River Tam, the psychic character in Firefly/Serenity was a super-genius, hypercompetent in some areas, especially combat, was slightly prescient and had decent mental power pool. But the disad section on her character sheet would be longer than most novels, and she was bat-#$!& crazy.

[Supreme Serpent]

It's your game. While I'm sure there are some who run in "canon" universes who scrap and restart their campaigns every so often when new official material comes out, I'm not among them.

Would everything stay exactly the same? No, otherwise no point in playing, in brining your own and your player's creativity to the table. Would everything be thrown out? No, because then what's the point of saying it's X universe?

I normally don't run things in established settings. I think the only exception were some isolated Marvel-universe Marvel supers games, and I pull some things from established Champions writeups for most Champions games. That's about as far as it's gone. I've played in established universes, but so far thankfully haven't felt as though we couldn't do something "because it would mess up X".

I think the real dangers come not with futzing with licensed properties, rather it comes with trying to intersect the game directly with canon characters and events.

[Susano]

Silent Mobius Zeta

http://surbrook.devermore.net/smz/silentmobius.html

shows what I can and will do to an official property.

Basically, I added all sorts of stuff to it, but kept it all within the realm of magic and the like.

[teh bunneh]

I never run someone else's world. I have too many ideas of my own. Plus, I'd be too tempted to muck around with it (in the way the OP describes) to make it my own.

[Vondy]

I avoid licensed properties.

[Egyptoid]

I'm running a MARVEL universe, for example.

So villains like Iron Monger and Thanos are running around.

Advantage players: they know the universe.
So they can run to new york and ask reed for help.
But I give them very little unless they pay points for the contact.

Disadvantage to players: If I havent read a story arc,
its not happening. ie Ultimates.

So they suffer with my lame interpretation of Marvel things,
and especially with what I thought was cool in high school,
when I read tons of Marvel.


And another thing, I have no idea who Skull-Buster is...

[Karmakaze]

I generally prefer to run in "inspired by" settings rather than literal settings (when I'm not running wholly self-created settings, of course) partially because of the problem so obvious in the Star Wars games. By definition, the heroes of the story were in the spotlight, which means, if you stick by strict canon, the PCs can never properly have the spotlight - they'll always be b players.

My main problem, though, is that players have seen the show, read the novels, perused the sourcebooks and (a) can never quite let go of what they know of the universe beyond what their character should know (b) may have a differing interpretation of some facets they cannot let go of. I find little more annoying than trying to run a scene and having players argue with me about the setting, or an NPC's motiviations, or some such. (If I'm contradicting myself, or something the PCs would legitimately have previously encountered, that's one thing. "So-and-so would never have done that! In the cut scene from epsiode 16, we see he's really a woobie underneath!" makes me crazy.)

[Susano]

Silent Mobius Zeta was definitely an "inspired by" setting. I told the players there would be changed from the source material, and as most hadn't seen it, no one noticed and/or cared. I also had a lot of fun with it, as I could take some ideas from the original setting, modify and alter them just a bit, and go to town.

[OddHat]

I've never run a game entirely in a licensed property, but I have stolen ideas from all over. My latest Pulp and Supers campaign mixes the work of a few dozen authors as re-imagined in my own pop-culture mindscape, and I'm happy with it.

That said, I wouldn't be happy in a game where the GM threw in an NPC who could out perform every character in his or her own area of expertise, unless (possibly) that NPC was the main bad guy and we were going to bring him down. Too much Mary Sue stink there.

[Blue]

Aside from Cthulhu and Starwars I've never played in a licensed universe.

As for running, Just the "Batman RPG" that was a spinoff of the DC Heroes RPG by Mayfair. That I wanted to be identical to the comics. I owned the James Bond RPG, not sure if I ever got to run it; Having memory failure.

I think for most of us, RPGs are a creative outlet. Sure we can try and recreate a feeling verbatim, but for most GMs I know, it's about trying to make something new and creative.

[John Desmarais]

When I use a licenced property (like say, the DC Universe or Marvel Universe) the published work serves as a starting point from which I build my own thing. In other word, it defines the history but not the future. Stories which get published in the setting after I start using become part of "my" version of the setting only if they don't contridict anything I've done (or might want to do later).

I guess that puts me somewhere in the "I try to keep it close, but sometimes throw in curveballs" area.

[Black Rose]

As far as Firefly goes ... I really couldn't care less if he jerks around with it, 'cause I really don't like the series. Apparently, it's a Joss Whedon thing ... I haven't liked anything he's done. Not Buffy, not Angel, not Firefly. I just grabbed that as the most recent example of 'you know, something tells me this really doesn't feel right in that universe'.
Out of curiosity, can you describe what elements of Whedon's creations leave you cold? I ask because I'm a fairly big fan of his stuff; granted, some of the "created by someone else using Joss's toys" eps made me want to pour bleach into my eyes.


Silent Mobius Zeta

http://surbrook.devermore.net/smz/silentmobius.html

shows what I can and will do to an official property.

Basically, I added all sorts of stuff to it, but kept it all within the realm of magic and the like.
I'm showing off my anime fanboy roots here, but I think the best way to use a licensed property for a game is to imagine it as "Licensed Property, the OAV". Or TV series, depending. By that I mean stick with most of the major elements of the original, but feel free to play around a bit. Want to change some of the details of a major character's background or personality? Go ahead, just make it fit in the story.

[Thia Halmades]

I used to do the Mary-Sue thing. I was 15 at the time. Rapidly grew out of that. I've always had "uber NPCs" as my players call them, but they are expressly used as unkillable plot devices to set the tone of the game, rather than existing purely to steal PC thunder. That ain't right.

While we're on the topic, Egyptoid, were I to do a Marvel Universe, it would be set in Ultimates. I'm all for system reboots, and this one is amazing. What I adore about it is that it brings back the reason I love the idea of comics, but always hated comics in general. Being a poor kid I never would have had the money to purchase piles upon piles just to keep track of specific story lines. The Ultimates are closer to four-color graphic novels than traditional comics, by far. I've read book one of "The Ultimates" which is the revamped Avengers, and the first half of book one of X-Men, which is sheer genius.

So were I to do Marvel, it would be Ultimates. But that gives you googleplexes of latitude anyway. You can always create a new over-the-top plan to Take Over the World. But I digress.

Whedon's story for Firefly is very gritty sci-fi, and the show reflects that better than the film does, which leaves all sorts of messes unresolved. As I've said before, liked the show, not so much a fan of the film. If someone introduced a super-psi, Babylon 5 style, I would roll with it. If it was an excuse for the PCs to dance around in front of a movie screen, instead of actually interacting with the elements of the stage, I'd've bowed out as well.

[Spectrum]

When it comes to a game set in a pre-established world I tend to be a stickler for details when it's a world that I'm a particular fan of. I've only been in two games based on a licensed property, a Star Wars d20 that unfortunetly fell apart after a few sessions so it never really had a chance to create any kind of feel, and a Firefly game that has just started about two months ago and has been going on fine. Things in this have been off to a slow start and hasn'r quite fully captured the feel of the show just yet but since we just got a ship at the end of the last session I'm hoping that'll change.

If I were to GM in a already existing universe (Marvel, Star Wars, Firefly of what have you) I'd probably want to stay within the boundires of said universe but make minor changes to suit my needs but again I'm a stickler for details. But I'd be more likely to create my own world using them as inspiration

I've been on and off considering the idea of GMing a supers game and have toyed with ideas for the game world by taking elements I like or think could work from Marvel and DC and making whatever changes to them to fit in a world of my own creation.

[CrosshairCollie]

Out of curiosity, can you describe what elements of Whedon's creations leave you cold? I ask because I'm a fairly big fan of his stuff; granted, some of the "created by someone else using Joss's toys" eps made me want to pour bleach into my eyes.

I have no idea, really. I've watched episodes of the show(s), and I just never found myself interested. There was no reeling aversion or 'Holy $*@( this is a pile of steaming $*@(' reflexes. I watched, I shrugged, I changed the channel.

[Curufea]

I don't play or run licensed property games.
Even if I did, I would point out "I was never a script writer for the show, of course it will be different".

As I'm not psychically identical to the writers and creators of licensed properties - it is a tad unrealistic to ever expect any setting based on it to be remotely close to "canon".
As if that matters.

[CandidGamera]

I love licensed properties. I'd run so many games in licensed-type worlds if I had the chance.. especially the Buffyverse and the DC Universe.

As a matter of fact, I was eventually planning to have my current paranormal investigators go dimension-hopping, and encounter the DCU.

I had a neat plot all set up with magical heroes of the DCU being abducted, and the PCs going in to rescue what they thought was an emaciated and tortured Billy Batson, informed by the Phantom Stranger that the boy needs to speak words of power to transform into his more powerful self - and once they get the gag off, the emaciated and tortured figure croaks out "Gone, gone form of man..."

Would've been a great moment.

[input.jack]

"Gone, gone, form of man.."

THATS AWESOME!

I love it when the Players get that look of "Oh...sh**" as they realize they have become involved in more than they bargained for.

I had a loooong-running HERO campaign, where one of the main PC's was a solar-powered flying energy projector (plasma), called Starfire. His secret ID name was Mike Kane.

After seven years of running the game, I hit them with a time travel story (I try not to use time travel too much). Mike managed to convince the most powerful arcane magic weilder he could talk to (Doc Strange scale magic, but a bit less...sane. Eccentric and harmless...really) to send him back about six weeks to undo the catastrophe that killed his (amazing) wife. But this caused problems. Things went awry. It then appeared that Mike's sudden appearance in the past -caused- the accident. So he convinced the Archmage to send him back even farther.... (all of this without the knowledge or advice of the rest of the team, being run as a sort of "sideline game" between sessions, while Mike's player sits out the standard sessions, since Mike is not around).

Eventually, Mike realized that the trouble he was in was not just temporal, but dimensional. The chain of events leading to his losing his wife was caused by careless supers from a sort of "Anti-Earth", where all of the heroes he knew had villainous counterparts (well...most of them. Some were...missing. If you know what I mean). Mike and his friends had dealt with this alternate reality several times before, and he knew what a terrible place it was.

As Mike was pondering what to do, THE most powerful arcane entity in the known world (at least, the most powerful that regularly interacts with mortals. Specter / Phantom Stranger powerful) appeared beside him, and talked to him. In her creepy voice, she explained that she knews what had occured, and that as a result of the interference between the two worlds the boundaries were weakening. The dimensions would "merge" soon, and that would NOT be pleasant for anyone involved, unless the chain of events that made the "Anti-Earth" the way it was (evil) could be broken. She explained that, as an Agent of the Powers, she could not do this herself; if she did, then it would unravel things even more badly. She asked Mike if he was willing to do what must be done, even if it costs him a part of his soul.

Mike, desperate to get his wife back, and in light of new information, also to save his reality from destruction, said "Yes"!

So the Living Avatar of Isis transported Mike across time and dimensions, and he found himself looking at a man wearing primitive leathers, like those of the Cro-magnon, sitting on a log looking out over a mountain lake, as the morning mists rose off of the water. His companions were asleep in some crude leather shelters nearby. The man seemed contemplative, as though deep in thought.

"What do I have to do?" Mike asked.

"He is the focal point. He is, in his heart, a good man. A natural leader. And he will do his people much good. But after he is gone, his followers will, over time, subvert his message from one of peace and hope, to one of fear and enslavement. Hatred and death. They are the taint that creates the rotted world you saw. To save this world from becoming what you know it will otherwise be...you must kill him."

"Kill him! I cant kill him! Is there some other way? Why do I have to KILL him??"

And Ankhesenisis turned to Mike, looked him straight in the eyes, and said,

"He is Abel....You are KANE."

[CandidGamera]

Ah, a classic twist on an old tale, that.

I relatively recently had the chance to play in an excellent DCU game (using the WEG DC system). Essentially, it was tens of thousands of years in the future. The sentient peoples of the galaxy had abandoned their homes and congregated in a super-system at the galaxy's fringe, hidden away by a naturally-occurring energy field.

The GM provided the characters - he'd found a site that randomly generated DCU characters for the system, and we got to pick amongst them. We were recruited by a timelost speedster to form the new incarnation of the Legion of Superheroes.

It was fantastic. So many nice touches here and there, legacy items coming up - and as I was the only real comic book fan besides the GM, I got to appreciate it all on a deeper level than most. I was Chlorophyll Kid II. We battled Computo. We found lost Legionnaires from a previous group on a side-trip that took us to the Source Wall. While seaching for a companion lost in a random dimension, I met Neron. (and planned to swindle him, too.. ;) )One of my teammates was the current host of Eclipso - low-powered at the moment, due to only possessing a tiny fraction of the black diamond. A "Professor Ivo" ran the museum of superheroics. His robotic son, Kid Amazo, eventually joined our group - and had Snapper Carr's mannerisms. It was a weird blend of Silver and Iron age sensibilities.

I think our shining moment had to be the Kryptonian incident. There was this real sleaze of a Bismollian (like Matter-Eater Lad) who had the unique power to taste things at a distance. He used this to sample people. Quite squicky. He had a number of wives - and after putting him in prison, one of his wives had something to say about it. She was a Kryptonian, in the Phantom Zone. She'd become obsessed with him while there, watching him - and could use her powers to phase into reality for brief periods, while concentrating. That's how they met and were married.

So she broke him out of jail. And we had to deal with a rogue Kryptonian. Mad from tens of thousands of years of confinement. (She'd been put in the Phantom Zone for an "eating disorder" - cannibalism.)

None of us had remotely the power we'd need. There were Kryptonite samples at the Superhero museum that may have been real, but the case included White Kryptonite, and since I was half-plant, that would've sucked (since I'd be the one doing the stealing).

But I had an idea. We recently had acquired a piece of technology from the Science Police (who were unfeeling mostly robotic minions of Computo at this point) - it was, essentially, a device that could reconfigure itself to mimic other devices.

The superhero museum also had a Phantom Zone projector. Which I recommended we scan, surreptitiously. Using the scans, we used the multi-gadget to replicate the Phantom Zone projector.

I sent the sleaze to join his lady. Without him to use as a focus, she could no longer properly enter our dimension. And in the Phantom Zone, he could never taste anyone again. :cool:

[John Desmarais]

There was this real sleaze of a Bismollian (like Matter-Eater Lad) who had the unique power to taste things at a distance. He used this to sample people.

:nonp:

[CandidGamera]

:nonp:

Yeah, we got him charged with fifty-odd counts of second-degree sexual assault. Since he thoughtfully made a journal of what his samplees tasted like.

[Susano]

Yeah, we got him charged with fifty-odd counts of second-degree sexual assault. Since he thoughtfully made a journal of what his samplees tasted like.

Ewww....

[rebeccared50]

I think the closest thing I've ever come to running a licensed universe was when I took the Ravenloft universe and inserted it, whole cloth, into the D&D game I was running at the time. Such fun... I tend to pick a spot in the games history and turn the character lose at that point... I won't limit what they can or can't do based on what's "suppose to happen" - and I'm not above adding new elements from other places as long as it's not game unbalancing and seems to go with the genre...

[David Johnston]

There is nothing in Firefly/Serenity canon to say that another person couldn't have River's powers without quite her degree of personality malfunction. However there wouldn't be much point to it either unless that person was some kind of fearsome enemy since such a person wouldn't have the requisite vulnerability to require PC protection.

So the issue there is not one of faithfulness to the source material but just annoying Mary Sueism. As far as being faithful to a licensed work, depends on the work. I will cheerfully loot H.P. Lovecraft and co for scattered bits of this and that. But ordinarily if I want to mix and match licensed properties or introduce elements that could never fit into the original work, I file off the serial numbers and change the names to protect the guilty. If I want Amberites in my GURPS Infinite Worlds campaign, then I have them come from the city of Amethyst which can be as different or as similar to the real Amber as I like.

[SuperPheemy]

When dealing with a licensed property, you're essentially trying to play "within the setting" as outlined by the source material. However, since this is a role-playing exercise that has never been defined by the source material, the game must allow for variation that isn't covered definitively.

That's a long way of saying that most games suing licensed properties need to stay true to the spirit of the source material.

If the game strays to far from the source material, you're really not playing the game as intended. Once you add suits of Iron Man's power armor to your Lord of the Rings game, you've pretty much thrown out any hope of staying true to the source material.

However if there is no variation from the source material whatsoever, including no speculation on what the source material does not cover, then you're essentially retelling the story verbatim, with the names changed. Which defeats the purpose of roleplaying.

[input.jack]

Exactly, Pheemy :)

Ive always believed that a game set in an established setting should have -some- things that are new in it, so long as they dont contradict or negate anything already seen in the original material.

For example, my friends and I were discussing characters for a potential supers game set in the DC Animated Unicerse (based on the series produced by Bruce Timm of Batman, Superman, JLU, etc). I had an idea for a shapechanging character based on Annie, the lost amnesiac girl who Robin/Tim Drake befriended late in the batman series, who later turned out to be a self-aware offshoot of Clayface.

Annie was re-absorbed into Clayface (which seemed like murder to Robin. And to me). But my line of reasoning was this: given that Annie was really self-aware and had an independant personality of her own by the time she was re-absorbed, when Clayface took her back in by force he also would have absorbed all of her memories and her "essence"; her persona is now in some way a aprt of his own. Because their personalities and motivations are so different from each other, and given that this is Gotham City, it seems reasonable to assume that this event might force a sort of "split personality" onto Clayface. (After all, Harvey Dent in that series has not two, but -three- personas, including the Judge). Over time, Clayface would have bad dreams and unexpected reactions to things, and eventually the conflict inside his psyche would come to a head, in an event which resulted in Annie effectively re-formign herself and severing herself frm Clayface again. Unlike normal people with Multiple Personality Disorder, Clayface -can- create a whole nre, seperate body for his alter ego!

This idea brings someone new into existence, but is based on something that we saw in the series, which in no way contradicts what happened, and in fact builds on it as a base.

Likewise, my friend Deejmeister once created a character for a Marvel Universe campaign based on a minor, but real Marvel character who made a few background appearances in Iron man. He was an employee at Stark Industries, who kept applying for the job as Iron Man. In the comics, he ends up beign in a position to see just exactly what kind of thing Shellhead has to deal with every day, and eventually applied for a security job as a stepping-stone. But his actions had gotten him noticed by Iron Man, who is, of course, also The Boss. Deej's idea was that he had continued to train and apply himself to becoming Iron Man, and eventually Stark had given him a suit of armor similar to the Guardsman armor, and actually given him the tools and training to be a hero in his own right :)

[Black Omega]

I like messing around with licensed properties. My current game takes the Anita Blake Universe (one property) adds in elements from Hellsing (property number two) with various touches of my own as well.

I'm more familiar with the properties than my players, which helps quite a bit.

[Captain Obvious]

I ran a Nehwon campaign with heavy elements of Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard thrown in here and there. Not too bizarre, I suppose.

[Dr. Anomaly]

...my Mary Sue sense is tingling.

http://castle-walls.org/hero/error/sigged.png

[Lightray]

Mary Sues and Marty Stus are problems no matter what game or genre you're playing.

But, if you're dealing with a liscenced or other established setting, you owe it to your gaming group to come to an agreement beforehand on what portions of the setting they can expect to be there, and what parts maybe won't.

I've run following canon, and diverging from same. I ran an L5R campaign where the players explicitly wanted to follow the Day of Thunder storyline, so I was careful to ensure that things didn't stray too far from where I'd need things to be (and the players, of course, couldn't kill Bayushi Kachiko no matter how they wanted to).

I'm now starting an L5R game where I'm "re-imaging" things from the ground up. The players have just founded the Empire, and things will be different from what happened in the L5R canon. But some things will still be there, because we all know we're playing L5R, and we've agreed that there are setting elements that have to be included (so, we'll have samurai, and shugenja, and Shadowlands beasties, and such).

If I suddenly had Bobobo-bo Bo-Bobo show up and attack everyone with his nosehair, they'd be understandably upset, because that's not the game they were expecting. Also, that would be stupid. But if we've agreed to what an "L5R game" includes, it'd be rude of me to ignore that agreement (even if it were unspoken).

[Susano]

If I suddenly had Bobobo-bo Bo-Bobo show up and attack everyone with his nosehair, ...

Uhm... a what?

[Lightray]

Uhm... a what?
Ah. I see you're someone who doesn't have to watch Justice League Unlimited on Cartoon Network.

It's... it's very bad. A very very bad anime-style bad cartoon that's bad and yet some twit has put on to Cartoon Network despite the fact that it's really bad.

Bad. Oh, so bad. :ugly:

Also, more helpfully: BAD (http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/all_shows/index.html?state_show=bobobobobobobo)

warning: BAD.

[teh bunneh]

I lied. Earlier in the thread, I said that I never run other people's properties, and now I find myself running an Avengers: The Next Generation game on HeroCentral. :shock:

But since it's a "20 years later" type of game, I'm able to take liberties with the setting -- so long as I keep the feeling of the Marvel Universe and throw in the ocassional tidbit from the past. :bounce:

[Spectrum]

Ah. I see you're someone who doesn't have to watch Justice League Unlimited on Cartoon Network.

It's... it's very bad. A very very bad anime-style bad cartoon that's bad and yet some twit has put on to Cartoon Network despite the fact that it's really bad.

Bad. Oh, so bad. :ugly:

Also, more helpfully: BAD (http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/tv_shows/all_shows/index.html?state_show=bobobobobobobo)

warning: BAD.
I've sat through almost an entire episode of this (don't ask, I was either bored or waiting for something else to come on). This comes into the category of what I refer to as "random s*** anime." And it's not even a funny kind of random like Azumanga Daioh (granted I've only seen one episdoe of that) or Robot Chicken.

[Savinien]

I don't play or run licensed property games.
Even if I did, I would point out "I was never a script writer for the show, of course it will be different".

As I'm not psychically identical to the writers and creators of licensed properties - it is a tad unrealistic to ever expect any setting based on it to be remotely close to "canon".
As if that matters.

What about New Crobuzon?

[input.jack]

"....like Azumanga Daioh (granted I've only seen one episdoe of that) or Robot Chicken."

Azumanga Daioh is actually pretty hysterical if you follow it for a while. A friend of mine has a 13 year old daughter and he got her hooked into Azumanga. And took the rest of us along for the ride @_@

Robot Chicken I wouldnt class as anime, but WOW its random s***! My roomate just got the first season of it on DVD so now we can melt our brains whenever we want to!

/Rant on

Bobobobobobulls**t is definately the worst thing I have EVER seen on television. If youve never seen it, think of something that you watched that made you think "Now, how the heck did someone get paid for making THIS drek?".

That was Shakespeare compared to Bobobobo. That was Citizen frikkin Kane! Just seeing -commercials- for Bobobo makes me want to fill my eye sockets with lye and set my head on fire! And apparently THAT is the direction Cartoon Network is headed. What with Minoriteam, Bobobo, and some of the other new shows theyve got scheduled, there really wont be ANY use for the network after Justice League airs its final episode. (And no, I dont like Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Venture Bros, or 12 Ounce Mouse either)

/Rant off

Although to try to return the thread to its original topic; as I said earlier, I always try to stick to the spirit of a licensed property, throwing in the occasional new thing while trying to make sense of whats there. In recent weeks Ive been watching alot of the DCAU on DVD (things like Batman:the Animated Series, Superman TAS, Batman Beyond, and Justice League). Ive started a campaign similar to Batman TAS, with the PC's filling the roles of Nightwing and Batgirl, effectively, and the Batman character being an NPC who is around occasionally, and can give them advice or help if they need it. (Effectively hes busy in Metropolis alot with the formation of the Justice League, and they are entrusted with keeping Gotham safe while hes out).

Watching all of these DVDs has made me really and truly impressed with how Bruce Timm and his crew managed to take the DC universe and somehow get it RIGHT. More "right" than the comics have in 10 or more years. Im impressed!

Our game group tends to run either totally original settings, or else campaigns based on the -idea- of a published setting, but with the names changed, different paint jobs, and some of the background restructured to make more sense. Most published settings we want to use are from movies or TV shows or comics, all of which are intended first and foremost as storytelling media, and to be cohesive and withstand close scrutiny second. So, for example, when I wanted to run a game like Original Series Star Trek, I decided to create my own setting for it to address some of the problems Id seen crop up in Trek games in the past.

So I created a campaign setting where starships were fast enough to cross the main campaign area in only a couple of months (if you look at the map from the Original Series, and go by the popular fan listing for how fast ships go, it would have taken Kirk DECADES to travel from where he started to all the places he went during the first three seasons). Where the weapons were incredibly powerful, but not "glow and go" because that has caused innumerable arguements between Players and GMs over the years. Our previous main Trek GM insists that a phaser on disintegrate will destroy exactly 100 gk of matter per shot, and that a Phaser ll holds only 6 shots on full power. Another Player in incredibly frustrated by the "100 kg" thing (as am I), and I think a phaser should hold ALOT more juice than that, since there are lines in the Original Series that indicate that three men with a phaser each and three spare power packs were able to kill tens of thousands of primitive enemies.

I wanted to avoid that kind of debate, so I decided that the weapons were not capable of destroying things at an atomic level (although i wrote them as a 4d6 RKA so they were plenty tough), and that at full power they could fire 500 shots.

I wanted to avoid situations where a Player might argue with another Player of the GM about "A Vulcan would never do that!" Or "Klingons cant trust other Klingons!" "Yes they can, Klingons never betrayed other Klingons in the Original Series" (They didnt btw).

So I made my own Races.

I didnt want Transporters to become the answer to everything so I changed the theory -behind- how they work. The end result was the same; you step on the pad, there is a cool effect, and you arrive where you wanted to go. But since it isnt tearing you apart at the subatomic level and reassembling you at the other end, you cant simply use your tranporter pattern to make yourself eternally unaging, so long as you beam someplace every day, for example (which you -could- do in Star Trek if you wanted to).

It took several weeks to set up just the framework for the game, but once I was done I had a setting that was -designed- to be an RPG setting (and was therefore logical and cohesive), which was familiar enough to the Players since they knew it was based on the -feel- of Original Star Trek, and yet new and shiny for them.

That campaign setting got run in various incarnations for more than 10 years, both by me, and by other GMs in our group, because I had made the basic write-ups and notes available to people who wanted to run it. :D

Personally, I find this the most satisfying way of running an established setting; the "one universe over" version. The GM can keep the core essence of the setting, change the things that the original writers made illogical or inconsistent because of some story consideration, and the setting is new and challenging for the Players.

It just takes alot of work

[John Desmarais]

Watching all of these DVDs has made me really and truly impressed with how Bruce Timm and his crew managed to take the DC universe and somehow get it RIGHT. More "right" than the comics have in 10 or more years. Im impressed!

Kind of makes you wish DC would hire them to sort out the comic continuity, doesn't it?

Better yet, wouldn't it be cool if the Animated DCU was the basis for the upcoming new DC Roleplaying Game? :bounce: (http://www.e-core-news.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=37&ttitle=DC_Animated_Universe_Sourcebook!)


(p.s. Click on the bouncing head)

[input.jack]

If the DCAU was the basis for the new DC game, Id absolutely buy it.

As it is, I probably wont get the new game, cause I dont want Identity Crisis' stink rubbing off on my stuff ;)

(Or whatever their current bollocks-up is called)

[Lightray]

(Or whatever their current bollocks-up is called)
The current bollocks is Infinite Crisis. Aside from a few :rolleyes:s (e.g., Jade! NOOOOO! & Ion? again? really?) it's been pretty good.

Of course, I didn't read any of Identity Crisis, other than what strayed into JSA or Titans.

On the gripping hand, at least it's not Marvel's recent bollocks-ups -- House of M, Decimation, or Civil War -- all of which were or look to be pretty dire, indeed.

[LoresLost]

Kind of makes you wish DC would hire them to sort out the comic continuity, doesn't it?

Better yet, wouldn't it be cool if the Animated DCU was the basis for the upcoming new DC Roleplaying Game? :bounce: (http://www.e-core-news.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=37&ttitle=DC_Animated_Universe_Sourcebook!)


(p.s. Click on the bouncing head)

I looked at the first OYL Superman story and I noticed that a number of villians resemble the Superman Animated Series (Toyman, Shocker and Metallo come right to mind) I think the DCU will resemble the ADCU in OYL after this.

The Teen Titians on the other hand now have a set of teenage supergenius building keepers, Marvin and Wendy...:rolleyes: