Desolidification, Always On... Except When It's NOT...

[Brigman]

OK, here's one for you all out there:

How would you build a Desolidification Power that is always on (persistant, 0 End) but can be turned off by spending END (i.e., costs END to turn OFF)?

The concept is a spectral character that, with concentration, can become solid and affect the real world - but it's not his natural state.

Thoughts?

[Bloodstone]

You might want to check out one of the limitations on p284 of 5ER.

It's called "Always On"

[Vondy]

Paying endurance to turn off the "always on" limitation is an option noted for GM approval in the limitation description, as noted above.

[Sean Waters]

For a power like desolidification, I'd allow -0 (naturally desolid but can become solid by expending END). I don't consider it worth any points savings. Maybe a couple of disadvantages, but not a reduction on the power cost. Maybe even an advantage (say +1/4)

If you had, say, a damage shield that was always on and you had to pay END to turn off I'd see that as much more problematic and worth a limitation.

Of course, as always, I am willing to be persuaded otherwise. If, for example, you need to sleep and when you sleep you sink into the ground and suffocate, i can see how that would be a problem, but generally, if anything, in a lot of games it would be an advantage not a limitation: assuming you don't sink through the floor when sleeping, it is going to be hard for an assassin to get to you, and (in game) there is probably only limited need for being solid. It would not even be much of a problem in most social/non-combat situations: reduce your SPD to 2 and you can stay solid as long as you are conscious with a REC of 8.

No, the more I think about it the more I think that it is probably a small advantage. Assuming you don't sink through the floor :D

[Sean Waters]

I'm assuming that the only real reason to need this is to avoid the desolid being drained and leaving you solid?

Personally I'd be happy to allow this: Desolid 0 END persistent for 80 points (drains prevent a change of state but you'd be stuck in whichever one you were in when you lost that last point +0)

[Blue]

I remember something, perhaps long ago, about inherent powers (like those on animals) but I don't see a modifier for it in the book. Am I imagining things?

[Sean Waters]

I remember something, perhaps long ago, about inherent powers (like those on animals) but I don't see a modifier for it in the book. Am I imagining things?

Check out 'Duration Advantages'

[prestidigitator]

I'm assuming that the only real reason to need this is to avoid the desolid being drained and leaving you solid?
Always On doesn't prevent Desolidification from being Drained. Inherent would, but not Always On.

I think Always On is certainly a valid Limitation on Desolidification. You have to keep in mind that the character must already have paid for Persistent. So what if the Power is impossible or difficult to turn on? Well, while your enemies can't get to you, neither can your friends!
Let's hope if you lose Body and are dying that you can either help yourself or stay conscious and keep paying the End so one of your friends can stabilize you somehow!
Good luck carrying that unconscious DNPC back to base; you'll probably run out of Long Term End first!
Watch out! There are some rare beasties that also have your form of Desolidification, and your team isn't going to be able to help very easily!

[Lord Liaden]

Paying endurance to turn off the "always on" limitation is an option noted for GM approval in the limitation description, as noted above.

There is one other rules-legal option for turning off Always On Powers, which might be preferable for folks who prefer a precise accounting of such things, or customized restrictions on it:

Determine how many Character Points your character saves on the cost of the Power by taking the Always On Lim, i.e. the difference between Active and Real Points. Add that number of Character Points to your character's sheet as though it were a Naked Advantage, essentially "buying off" the Limitation. From there you can Limit those added points in any way appropriate for the character to be able to turn off the Power: Costs Endurance, Focus, Concentration etc.

[Brigman]

Thanks all for the replies and suggestions!

[radioKAOS]

I've used this for an NPC in my campaign.

45 He straddles the boundries between Worlds...: Desolidification (affected by Mental powers), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) 0

This makes the desolid his natural states, and according to 5ER p284, an always on power can be turned off at a cost of 5 times the END/phase.

[austenandrews]

There is one other rules-legal option for turning off Always On Powers, which might be preferable for folks who prefer a precise accounting of such things, or customized restrictions on it:

Determine how many Character Points your character saves on the cost of the Power by taking the Always On Lim, i.e. the difference between Active and Real Points. Add that number of Character Points to your character's sheet as though it were a Naked Advantage, essentially "buying off" the Limitation. From there you can Limit those added points in any way appropriate for the character to be able to turn off the Power: Costs Endurance, Focus, Concentration etc.
I've hand-rolled it that way for decades. Nice to hear it's in the book.

[Lord Liaden]

I've hand-rolled it that way for decades. Nice to hear it's in the book.

I don't know if the specific example for "Always On" is in 5ER since I don't own that yet; but Limiting the points that you use to buy off Limitations is given as a general principle in the FAQ, under "Power Limitations - General Questions."

I know that I've seen Steve Long address the Always On build issue in particular here on the boards, but the Search function won't accept the word "always" no matter how I define the other parameters, so I've been unable to call up that example yet. :mad:

[Lucius]

Just other options to think about, off the top of my head...

Variable Limitation, limited to Always On, or Costs END.

A Suppress Desolid, limited to Self Only.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary observes that yes, he's suffering insomnia again.

[prestidigitator]

I know that I've seen Steve Long address the Always On build issue in particular here on the boards, but the Search function won't accept the word "always" no matter how I define the other parameters, so I've been unable to call up that example yet. :mad:
I think the default search uses OR logic, so it is the inclusion of the word 'on' that is probably making your search so difficult. Of course, I haven't used search for a couple months, so I could be wrong.

[Lord Liaden]

"On" was the first word I tried leaving off. ;)

It's "always" that the Search doesn't like - too common, apparently. Even if I just search Steve's posts, even in a single forum.

[prestidigitator]

"On" was the first word I tried leaving off. ;)

It's "always" that the Search doesn't like - too common, apparently. Even if I just search Steve's posts, even in a single forum.
Have you tried quotes to indicate a whole phrase? If that doesn't work, you might take a quick look at the results of the following Google search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22always+on%22+site%3Awww.herogames.com+%22Hero +System+5th+Edition+Rules+Questions%22+%22Steve+Lo ng%22&btnG=Google+Search
(Modify to taste)

[ghost-angel]

I've used this for an NPC in my campaign.

45 He straddles the boundries between Worlds...: Desolidification (affected by Mental powers), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) 0

This makes the desolid his natural states, and according to 5ER p284, an always on power can be turned off at a cost of 5 times the END/phase.
This would be my suggestion - no GM ruling or overrides needed.