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SteelDoom
Mar 14th, '06, 09:11 PM
Howdy Folks,

I'm looking at adapting Rolemaster (RM) to Hero. I've done some searching of old threads and have browsed through Killer Shrikes web site and I think I've got the feel I need. I want to keep the level concept as a general idea because the players are all long term RM players and I want to reduce culture shock some what ;)

First off, someone mentioned giving characters 15 Character Points per level and starting them off quite weak. This fits well with RM in general and I think I'll go with it. Supposing this, how many active points should I limit spells to? RM spells go to 50th level but the lowest level spell that a mage will get is a Sleep Spell which would be at least a 4d6 Mind control. Maybe something like 20 AP plus 5 AP per level as max, which works reasonably well as it gives a 150 point (10th level) character a 70 AP max spell.

As to spells, I will likely simply grab spells directly from the Turakian Age and Grimoire but slot them into power framworks. This means I don't actually have to re create the zillions of RM spells of the bat. If they want to research RM spells they will be originals that take time make.

The limitations for the spells will be exclusively on the Framework (not the indivual powers in it) with one exception. I want all spells to require END to maintain, which means that if a power that doesn't have maintenance goes into a framework it will have to be bought to Cost END.
Generic limitations will be (I don't have the book on me for exact limit values) which total to -2.
Side Effect - Every activation, minor (long term END as per KS's site)
Side Effect - Failing a spell, moderate (EB or Stun Drain).
Skill Roll - Basic roll, no AP modifiers, can be counterspelled with skill.
Incantations - A brief phrase spoken boldly.
Spell - because there will be spell like abilities that can be aquired which are different.

The Grimoire (for the Turakian Age) has the differing arcana split up. So I was thinking each one should be a different Framework, maybe even breaking up offensve, defensive and miscellaneous with in the arcana. So for example, a druid would have three power framworks, one for offensive spells, one for defensive spells and one for all others. Is this too complicated? Too point heavy?
Spells can be countered with a dispel magic or specific counterspell as an aborted action and this would go down to a contested skill roll. Maybe as a flavour thing letting the contest go over several segments or phases, assuming the attacker wanted to keep pressing the attack.

As to what framework, I'm not sure about this. Multipower seems a simple option that would work well for all casters. However I could change this to give a different feel to amongst caster types. RM has three Realms of magic which are Arcane, Divine and Psionic. I was thinking maybe that Arcane could be an Elemental Control, Divine a VPP and Psionic a Multipower. However I'm not sure how this would go over a long campaign. Would the EC or VPP get too strong?
If I did the differing framworks I would probably change the limitations a little. Each would keep long term END loss, Skill Roll and Spell limitations but have the rest different (still totalling -2). So maybe divine users would be only able to change spells after 10 mintues of prayer and psions might pay more END for spells (x2 or something).

I'm looking for potential bugs, ideas or problems with what I've posted. This is by no means a final draft.

Curufea
Mar 16th, '06, 09:45 PM
The higher level spells in Rolemaster only appear huge in Rolemaster. From what I remember (and I'll have a look at the books again when I get home) - many of the high level spells are simply larger areas of effect. It is relatively easy to enlarge areas of effect, or the power of spells in Fantasy Hero, without huge differences in points values. So my advice is - while you may start with say 30 or 60 active points for a spell, you may need to be a bit more stringent on what advantages/points get spent. It may not be linear in progression.

mudpyr8
Mar 17th, '06, 06:16 AM
I'm not clear on something. Are you actually going to have levels? I would actually advise against that. I have run RM/Shadow World conversions for years in both Hero and GURPS and I'm happy to share my experience.

What is it about RM that you like that you want to bring to Hero? If you are using the Grimoires, Spell Law must not be really high on your list then. You mention the 3 realms and wanting to differentiate between them - I like that, and I think focusing on that will go a long way of bringing the feel over to your Hero game than any artificial constructs.

The easiest way is to look at the powers list and decide which realms of magic have access to which powers. Some will be obvious (e.g. no healing for Essence that isn't self-only and minor in nature). In general, mental powers will only be allowed to Mentalists (which are different from Psions if you recall, although making the distinction in Hero is probably not worth it). Require all non-mental powers for Mentalists to be bought BOECV. Most of their abilities should be self only.

Power Frameworks are another matter. ECs and VPPs don't really work for a spell system that has a lot of spells. MPs can get very cheap so you have to be careful. If you model the RM spell list concept, and require a MP per spell list I think that balances the cheapness of MPs pretty well.

How close are you going to model the casting system? In RM, a spell of your level required 2 rounds to prep and 1 round to cast. You can certainly require Extra Time Extra Phase.

I think you will find AP limits, well, limiting. AP doesn't tell the whole picture. I would also recommend, since it is an heroic level game, that when buying defenses require players to purchase 2 points of STUN only defense for each point of resistant defense. This will help keep defenses from getting out of control. Remember, 24 active points of Force Field gets you 12 rPD/rED which makes you nigh-invulnerable at heroic levels. When buying the STUN only defense, for 24 points you end up with 12 PD/ED (STUN only) and 4 rPD/rED which is much more manageable.

Let me know more and I'm happy to share.

shadowcat1313
Mar 17th, '06, 01:36 PM
I am very interested in some updated conversion ideas for Rolemaster, tossed around some tinkering for a Spacemaster conversion over the years, but it keeps getting backburnered

if theres anything I can do to help lemme know

Lord Liaden
Mar 17th, '06, 02:15 PM
There have been a few basic Rolemaster conversion matrices and ideas posted that might be of some help to you. You can find them by following the link in my signature, below, and scrolling down to the ROLEMASTER listing.

Nevenall
Mar 17th, '06, 06:10 PM
By the way all this is based upon RM Standard System.

It depends upon the profession and the stats that you roll, but I've found 1 RM level to be equivelent to 15-25 character points.

Also, the following Skill rolls are more or less statistically the same if you ignore Open Ended RM rolls.

HS Skill RM Skill
3- 11
4- 12
5- 15
6- 20
7- 27
8- 36
9- 48
10- 61
11- 73
12- 85
13- 94
14- 101
15- 106
16- 109
17- 110
18- 111

Also, I've posted my own RM inspired magic system in the Spell Law? thread.

Have fun!

SteelDoom
Mar 19th, '06, 03:24 AM
I'm not clear on something. Are you actually going to have levels?
I was thinking about it but more as a guide on skill limits or spell AP limits. Something for the players (more than me) to judge themselves on. I'm not committed to this idea tho.

What is it about RM that you like that you want to bring to Hero? If you are using the Grimoires, Spell Law must not be really high on your list then. You mention the 3 realms and wanting to differentiate between them - I like that, and I think focusing on that will go a long way of bringing the feel over to your Hero game than any artificial constructs.
I prefer the feel of RM spells to the Grimoire but what I don't like is the way that the spells lack any form of play balance. There are some RM spell lists that level for level just blow others away. (Force mage FTW!). So my thinking is that either I let the players model the RM spells themselves or just use the Grimoire.

The easiest way is to look at the powers list and decide which realms of magic have access to which powers.
That works

MPs can get very cheap so you have to be careful. If you model the RM spell list concept, and require a MP per spell list I think that balances the cheapness of MPs pretty well.
There is a reason to have at least three MP's... that means you can have three times the AP's running compared to the mage that only has one. However I might split it based on the RM spell types, Information, Utility, Force and Elemental.

How close are you going to model the casting system? In RM, a spell of your level required 2 rounds to prep and 1 round to cast. You can certainly require Extra Time Extra Phase.
Interesting idea...

...when buying defenses require players to purchase 2 points of STUN only defense for each point of resistant defense. This will help keep defenses from getting out of control. Remember, 24 active points of Force Field gets you 12 rPD/rED which makes you nigh-invulnerable at heroic levels. When buying the STUN only defense, for 24 points you end up with 12 PD/ED (STUN only) and 4 rPD/rED which is much more manageable./
An interesting idea too but I'm not sure exactly how this would work. Would it be one slot in an MP? Would it be a total of 28 STUN defense? Maybe I could make all defenses go in a separate MP and put limits on the whole MP

Let me know more and I'm happy to share.
Thanks for the ideas.

FYI another reason I was thinking of using the Grimoire is partly plot based. I could tinker with that and allow the players access to standard RM style magic along with MPs after the game starts.

We've been playing multiple games in Middle Earth for over a decade now (damn I'm old!) and I was thinking of something like this for a plot:

The players start in something familiar like Freeport in the Forgotten Realms setting. The chaos wars seem to be starting up again and this time it looks like there is no holding back. Mages looking to other planes see it spreading and some of the minor planes have already collapsed. So spells are developed to Gate beyond any plane that has ever been traveled to (in meta game it would be parallel universes, other Prime Material Planes). They all seem to be having the same Troubles and things are looking grim. Suddenly all the portals start opening to the same place. A scenario like the Riftwar Saga where the refugees flee through a rift to escape the Enemy would unfold. The first thing they note is that there doesn't seem to be any sentient life but there is lots of flora and fauna.... basically they have come to the 5th Age of Middle Earth and discover that the fourth Age ended with a general exodus from Middle Earth. I'm not sure I'll run with this plot but that's the general concept I'm going with. I may give the players Amnesia when they go through and make it First Age.... When Man first treads on middle earth... hehehe