Superheroes and Religion

[John Desmarais]

Ever wonder what religion you favorite hero is? Check this out.
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html

[Supreme Serpent]

I like what they have listed for JJJ's religion. :rofl:

[Lucius]

I like what they have listed for JJJ's religion. :rofl:
Why, what is it?

LA
p

[Supreme Serpent]

Why, what is it?

LA
p

Religious Affiliation: "hates Spider-Man"

[megaplayboy]

sigh...no love for Unitarians.

[AmadanNaBriona]

sigh...no love for Unitarians.
Nor Wiccans....
Funny.. I coulda SWORE there were at least a couple of praticing Wiccans in the halls of comic book lore.

But the author seems to be markedly reluctant to give any of the various pagan and neo-pagan faiths their proper names.

meh

[John Desmarais]

sigh...no love for Unitarians.

http://www.adherents.com/lit/sf_uu.html

[megaplayboy]

Well, that's nice to know.:)

Considering the lack of dogma in the UU faith, several comic book characters might qualify as de facto Unitarians.;)

[bigdamnhero]

Also interesting that the poster makes little effort to distinguish between those who practice a given religion versus those who were merely raised in a given religious tradition.

[John Desmarais]

Also interesting that the poster makes little effort to distinguish between those who practice a given religion versus those who were merely raised in a given religious tradition.

For the most part, neither does society - so it's not an unreasonable thing to do.

[Supreme Serpent]

Also interesting that the poster makes little effort to distinguish between those who practice a given religion versus those who were merely raised in a given religious tradition.

On the side there's a section talking about how some have it as more central, making references, etc. like Nightcrawler.

[Lucius]

For the most part, neither does society - so it's not an unreasonable thing to do.

That society does something is hardly a guarantee that it's reasonable.

Lucius Alexander

Trying to be reasonable with a palindromedary

[Shike019]

That society does something is hardly a guarantee that it's reasonable.

Lucius Alexander

Trying to be reasonable with a palindromedary

:rofl:

Repped

[FenrisUlf]

I've got to admit, that is a good site. Could use some work here and there, but they do cover a lot of characters.

[Spectrum]

I'm kind of curious as to how they come to the conclusion that these characters are of thier particular religion. Some of them I know for certain since they've flat out said so in the comics but what of others? Or have I not not read enough comics in my life?

[moquif]

I'm kind of curious as to how they come to the conclusion that these characters are of thier particular religion. Some of them I know for certain since they've flat out said so in the comics but what of others? Or have I not not read enough comics in my life?
Agreed.
I've also noticed the reluctance to say heroes are atheists. But he seems to have no problem saying "Most super-villains in mainstream comic books are atheists, agnostics, or simply non-religious.Aside from a few major villains, the list below primarily focuses on villains who have a known religious affiliation other than atheism." Then in the following lists includes quite a few who he says are atheists. Why does is assumption made that villains are atheists and not heroes?

[transmetahuman]

Agreed.
I've also noticed the reluctance to say heroes are atheists. But he seems to have no problem saying "Most super-villains in mainstream comic books are atheists, agnostics, or simply non-religious.Aside from a few major villains, the list below primarily focuses on villains who have a known religious affiliation other than atheism." Then in the following lists includes quite a few who he says are atheists. Why does is assumption made that villains are atheists and not heroes?
Well, obviously, it's because only god-fearing souls would actually try to help their fellow man, and all of us atheist types are evil. Eeeeeeevil. :rolleyes:

[Lucius]

I didn't explore the site that thoroughly, but it did look like for each character some kind of "evidence" was cited.

As for villains and atheism, possibly the reasoning is that a villain is almost by definition breaking the moral codes of most religions, and so is probably not a sincere practicioner of any such religion. I'd consider such reasoning faulty, but it may be the reasoning used.

I'll have to go back and look closer at the site. I wonder what Doctor Doom is listed as? We KNOW he believes in an afterlife, certainly....

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary tells the one about the dyslexic agnostic insomniac....

[ghost-angel]

As for villains and atheism, possibly the reasoning is that a villain is almost by definition breaking the moral codes of most religions, and so is probably not a sincere practicioner of any such religion. I'd consider such reasoning faulty, but it may be the reasoning used.
Breaking moral codes has hardly stopped anyone from not claiming to be a practitioner of a religion.

In fact, sometimes it's the excuse for breaking the code......

[Korvar]

The stereotypical Mafiosi is usually depicted as paying at least lip service to being Catholic...

[moquif]

I didn't explore the site that thoroughly, but it did look like for each character some kind of "evidence" was cited.

As for villains and atheism, possibly the reasoning is that a villain is almost by definition breaking the moral codes of most religions, and so is probably not a sincere practicioner of any such religion. I'd consider such reasoning faulty, but it may be the reasoning used.

Yeah, that reasoning is pretty week. Actually so is his evidence. About 10% of the US population are atheists, agnostics, etc if their reasoning was correct we'd make up the same amount (or more) in prisons. Yet only 0.1% of prisoners are atheists, agnostics, etc. Anyway, I took another look at the site and just about everyone has links giving evidence EXCEPT for most of the atheists. There is no "pure" atheist villain (not a type of atheist or one who later converted) who is labeled that without explination. Curiously enough, every atheist (and all but one agnostic) hero is given justification. transmetahuman is probably right, the labels are ones given by default based on false stereotypes.

[casualplayer]

Well, it's good to know God believes in himself.

[Beauty]

That's a cool and somewhat funny site. It's fair to estimate what religion a fictional character is based on his/her philosophy - someone who believes in a God that hammers evildoers would lead a tense life but have no problem hammering others. An atheist would be under no such pressure - just behave morally (for the sake of goodness?) and that behavior might be difficult to distinguish from one who sincerely believed in a loving, caring God.

I agree that Superman is of the Protestant stripe - I think they had him seeking advice from Catholic priests mainly because of visuals: the priests are easier to distinguish by dress and the churches tend to be more ornate. Protestant ministers wear ordinary clothes, and unless toting a massive bible, aren't obviously religious. And, in a pinch, hopefully all priests/ministers are trained so well that they can give sound moral advice and comfort when called upon.

The villains...heh. Most should not be atheists, or if they were, would only claim to be. Where's the fun in being bad if there's no one to be bad to? They might be of the attitude, "If there's a God, he can jolly well show himself. Where was he when (thing that ruined my life) happened? And in the meantime, I'm going to destroy the city! Up yours, God!" A genuine atheist would not be so het up.

[McCoy]

Follow the Batman link.


In the "Year II" storyline when he was asked if he believed in God, he said "I don't see a reason to" or something of the like.

[snip]

Whether or not Batman believes in God has nothing to do with his religious background and religious affiliation [emphasis added]
I think that's enough to dismiss the site as bogus.

[Lucius]

Breaking moral codes has hardly stopped anyone from not claiming to be a practitioner of a religion.

In fact, sometimes it's the excuse for breaking the code......

You’ll notice I’m not endorsing that reasoning – just guessing that it was in play.


Yeah, that reasoning is pretty week. Actually so is his evidence. About 10% of the US population are atheists, agnostics, etc if their reasoning was correct we'd make up the same amount (or more) in prisons. Yet only 0.1% of prisoners are atheists, agnostics, etc.

I wouldn’t be surprised if atheists and agnostics are disproportionately underrepresented among convicted criminals; most of the atheists I’ve known are good people.

But may I ask for a source on your statistics? I’d be interested in looking them up.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary proclaims at one end “Thank God I’m an atheist!” and at the other “Monotheism is a gift from the Gods!”

[Hermit]

Follow the Batman link.


I think that's enough to dismiss the site as bogus.


I have to admit, that 'logic' has me thinking they're missing a major point of religion, if not THE major point for many religions.

My own thought is that Bruce is Agnostic on one level, and on a deeper level, rather angry at God for his parents.

[John Desmarais]

My own thought is that Bruce is Agnostic on one level, and on a deeper level, rather angry at God for his parents.


Hard to be angry at someone you don't believe in.

[Lucius]

Seigal and Schuster, creators of Superman, Bob Kane and Bill Finger, creators of Batman, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, even Will Eisner - is there ANYONE important in classic comics who WASN'T Jewish??

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary and I are browsing the site, and obviously learning.

Edited (twice now)
PPS (Post Palindromedary Stuff)
Conversation between Ben Grimm (The Thing) and Powderkeg

Powderkeg: "And you're really Jewish?"
Thing: "There a problem with that?"
Powderkeg: "No! No, it's just....you don't LOOK Jewish."

[McCoy]

I have to admit, that 'logic' has me thinking they're missing a major point of religion, if not THE major point for many religions.

My own thought is that Bruce is Agnostic on one level, and on a deeper level, rather angry at God for his parents.
In my experience, people who have had a Job-like event either cease to believe in a higher power, or gain an inner peace in the belief that there was a reason for whatever happened, even if they don't understand it.

Batman has never struck me as having inner peace.

[Hermit]

Hard to be angry at someone you don't believe in.

Hence the mention on levels...

-If- there is a part of him that believes in God, that part is rather angry for the injustice of God's set up. That whole "inside Bruce is an angry 8 year old child wanting to make the world right" thing that is often hinted at by writers.

[McCoy]

Seigal and Schuster, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, even Will Eisner - is there ANYONE important in classic comics who WASN'T Jewish??
Dr. William Moulton Marston? (Graduated Harvard 1915, probably a WASP)

Steve Ditko?

[Hermit]

Batman has never struck me as having inner peace.

No arguement on that one.

And losing his loved ones would be a good catalyst for losing any faith he previously had.

[Lucius]

"GLBT" is a religion?

Lucius Alexander

"Well, maybe for some people" observes the palindromedary. "Kind of like Hates Spider Man can be a religion for someone we know."

[AmadanNaBriona]

"GLBT" is a religion?

Lucius Alexander

"Well, maybe for some people" observes the palindromedary. "Kind of like Hates Spider Man can be a religion for someone we know."
I was wondering about that myself.
Is there a religion that also uses that particular abbreviation, or does the author of the site think that by default anyone with an alternative sexual identity CAN'T actually belong to any other religion, I wonder?

[CrosshairCollie]

I was wondering about that myself.
Is there a religion that also uses that particular abbreviation, or does the author of the site think that by default anyone with an alternative sexual identity CAN'T actually belong to any other religion, I wonder?

I'm starting to wonder if it's a bit of overkill to call this guy an author.

[McCoy]

I was wondering about that myself.
Is there a religion that also uses that particular abbreviation, or does the author of the site think that by default anyone with an alternative sexual identity CAN'T actually belong to any other religion, I wonder?

We are unaware of any stories that have attempted to reconcile Obsidian's previously portrayed Catholic devotion with his recent identification of himself as gay.
Or words to that effect for almost all characters identified as GLBT.

This is such a steaming pile!

[Teflon Billy]

I really don't see what is so off base with this site. It does a pretty good job of looking at what's mentioned in comics and using contexts that are shown to figure out what the most likely religion is for popular comics characters.

Is it so amazing that the vast majority of comics characters are Christian or Jewish (taking into consideration the demographics of NYC)?

I think you are discounting it because it doesn't fit with your world view.

"Oh, there aren't any/enough Neo-Pagans mentioned, this list is crap."

"Megalomaniacal Narcisists who bow to no power are listed as being athiest/agnostic. This list has to be crap."


TB

[Lucius]

I was wondering about that myself.
Is there a religion that also uses that particular abbreviation, or does the author of the site think that by default anyone with an alternative sexual identity CAN'T actually belong to any other religion, I wonder?

Actually, I don't think it lists anyone as JUST "GLBT" but always as an addition to some other faith. Um, if "GLBT" is a faith. So I don't think his reasoning is "by default anyone with an alternative sexual identity CAN'T actully belong to any other religion..."

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary notes we are now reading the Batman piece...

[Teflon Billy]

Actually, I don't think it lists anyone as JUST "GLBT" but always as an addition to some other faith. Um, if "GLBT" is a faith. So I don't think his reasoning is "by default anyone with an alternative sexual identity CAN'T actully belong to any other religion..."Well, if you are GLBT you are not living up to the tenates of the Catholic Church (for example), you are actively living an daily lifestyle (not momentarily lapsing into sinful acts) that is a violation of the doctrines of the Faith.

I chalk it up to giving elaboration to the designation Catholic (lapsed) that he uses for some of the characters.

If I started espousing Monophysite, Nestorian, or Gnostic beliefes though I was raised Catholic and these facts were mentioned in comics, then listing me as Catholic (Nestorian adherent) that would be similar.

TB

[McCoy]

I really don't see what is so off base with this site. It does a pretty good job of looking at what's mentioned in comics and using contexts that are shown to figure out what the most likely religion is for popular comics characters.

Is it so amazing that the vast majority of comics characters are Christian or Jewish (taking into consideration the demographics of NYC)?

I think you are discounting it because it doesn't fit with your world view.

"Oh, there aren't any/enough Neo-Pagans mentioned, this list is crap."

"Megalomaniacal Narcisists who bow to no power are listed as being athiest/agnostic. This list has to be crap."


TB
"Any anglo from Utah, Arizona or New Mexico is listed as Latter Day Saints. TLHTBC."

No, it is not suprising that the majority of superheros are WASP, it is his/their rationalizations about the ones that aren't that are offensive.

[Teflon Billy]

"Any anglo from Utah, Arizona or New Mexico is listed as Latter Day Saints. TLHTBC."

No, it is not suprising that the majority of superheros are WASP, it is his/their rationalizations about the ones that aren't that are offensive.Having meet quite of few people from Utah, that isn't too far from the truth. The guy is choosing to use demographic, cultural, regional, and ethnic realities to guide him when using incomplete information. He really isn't that off base.

Though, if any of these were Guamian or Philopinoes living in Utah, LDS would be primarily true as well.

TB

[McCoy]

Having meet quite of few people from Utah, that isn't too far from the truth. The guy is choosing to use demographic, cultural, regional, and ethnic realities to guide him when using incomplete information. He really isn't that off base.

Though, if any of these were Guamian or Philopinoes living in Utah, LDS would be primarily true as well.

TB
Currently living in Arizona, it's a load of crap. The guy is choosing to use demographic, cultural, regional, and ethnic steriotypes bordering on raceism.

[Teflon Billy]

Currently living in Arizona, it's a load of crap. The guy is choosing to use demographic, cultural, regional, and ethnic steriotypes bordering on raceism.Whatever, I think you are choosing to look at this in the most negative light due to your own biases rather than the author's.

TB

[McCoy]

Whatever, I think you are choosing to look at this in the most negative light due to your own biases rather than the author's.

TB
Whatever. Must be nice to be able to read my mind at that range.

[CrosshairCollie]

Whatever. Must be nice to be able to read my mind at that range.

Those levels with Mind Scan are really paying off.

[Teflon Billy]

Those levels with Mind Scan are really paying off.Yeah, well I'd been saving points for a rainy day. I figured what the heck, might as well expand my repetoir.

TB

[casualplayer]

OK, I have all the Dan Slott She-Hulk, and I can't for the life of me figure out where this guy got the info that makes Mallory Book a LDS.

[moquif]

I wouldn’t be surprised if atheists and agnostics are disproportionately underrepresented among convicted criminals; most of the atheists I’ve known are good people.

But may I ask for a source on your statistics? I’d be interested in looking them up.

Lucius Alexander

STUDIES: ATHEISTS SUPPLY LESS THAN 1% OF PRISON POPULATIONS
by Wayne Aiken, North Carolina Director

I will concede the study is about 80 years old, but there's no reason to doubt the numbers changed that much. After all, we still accept writings that are many times older. Plus in Christianity, God forgives everyone. Why worry about being moral if you can be forgiven so easily? It would be interesting to run the study again though, just to see how it is today.

[Teflon Billy]

STUDIES: ATHEISTS SUPPLY LESS THAN 1% OF PRISON POPULATIONS
by Wayne Aiken, North Carolina Director

I will concede the study is about 80 years old, but there's no reason to doubt the numbers changed that much. After all, we still accept writings that are many times older. Plus in Christianity, God forgives everyone. Why worry about being moral if you can be forgiven so easily? It would be interesting to run the study again though, just to see how it is today.Ah, I think there are great reasons to doubt that studies current validity if you are trying to apply the conclusions drawn then to people of today.

Todays society and culture has had great changes in religious expression (and the manner it is expressed) since that study was conducted.

TB

[moquif]

I really don't see what is so off base with this site. It does a pretty good job of looking at what's mentioned in comics and using contexts that are shown to figure out what the most likely religion is for popular comics characters.

Is it so amazing that the vast majority of comics characters are Christian or Jewish (taking into consideration the demographics of NYC)?

I think you are discounting it because it doesn't fit with your world view.

"Oh, there aren't any/enough Neo-Pagans mentioned, this list is crap."

"Megalomaniacal Narcisists who bow to no power are listed as being athiest/agnostic. This list has to be crap."

TB

Well they label some evil characters as atheists without cause. Maybe it's because they don't fit into this authors world view? Yes I am discounting much of what he says, but that's not just because of my world view. It is because in some cases the evidence is pretty flimsy including how he states the vast majority of villains are atheist/agnostic bue doesn't say WHY.

[moquif]

Ah, I think there are great reasons to doubt that studies current validity if you are trying to apply the conclusions drawn then to people of today.

Todays society and culture has had great changes in religious expression (and the manner it is expressed) since that study was conducted.

TB

Yes, if anything the percentage of atheists in prisons has gone down. It's less aceptable today than 80 years ago to attack someone for not being Christian or doing something legal that is against Christian teaching (homosexuality, pronography, being non-Christian, teaching evoltuion, etc). Religion is loosing its shield against the law and atheists are still pretty much in the same boat as before.

[John Desmarais]

OK, I have all the Dan Slott She-Hulk, and I can't for the life of me figure out where this guy got the info that makes Mallory Book a LDS.

Probably never actually stated in the comics. Most likely assumed because she went to Brigham Young University. (BYU claims that approximately 99% of their student body is LDS.)

[McCoy]

Ah, I think there are great reasons to doubt that studies current validity if you are trying to apply the conclusions drawn then to people of today.

Todays society and culture has had great changes in religious expression (and the manner it is expressed) since that study was conducted.

TB
If you have more up to date figures, I'd like to see them. Till then, this is the best evidence available.

Now that I think of it, I never had a client that said they were athiest/agnostic except for the one who became Number Two Son, and he wasn't a defendant.

Will admit, never asked the majority.

[death tribble]

I admit I liked JJJ's religion as well.

[Hermit]

If you have more up to date figures, I'd like to see them. Till then, this is the best evidence available.

Now that I think of it, I never had a client that said they were athiest/agnostic except for the one who became Number Two Son, and he wasn't a defendant.

Will admit, never asked the majority.

There seems to be some doubt cast on that data on various sites online

http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html

If THIS site is to believed, a more accurate break down might be:





Possible Recent Statistics For a Fraction of U.S. Prisoners
David Rice has written to us (23 October 2002) concerning the origin of the data in the table below:
The data came from Denise Golumbaski, who was a Research Analyst for the Federal Bureau of Prisons. The data was compiled from up-to-the-day figures on March 5th, 1997. (Note that as of the year 1999, Analyst Golumbaski is no longer working for the Federal Bureau of Prisons; I had telephoned Analyst Golumbaski to request the latest figures, and was told by another analyst that Golumbaski was no longer employed there.) The data was requested by Mr. Rod Swift, who passed it on to me for my web site. I later called the Federal Bureau of Prisons and confirmed that the data did in fact come from their database.

Catholic 29,267 31.432%
Protestant 26,162 28.097%
None/Atheist/Unknown 18,537 19.908%
Muslim 5,435 5.837%
American Indian 2,408 2.586%
Nation of Islam 1,734 1.862%
Rastafarian 1,485 1.595%
Jewish 1,325 1.423%
Church of Christ 1,303 1.399%
Pentecostal 1,093 1.174%
Moorish 1,066 1.145%
Buddhist 882 0.947%
Jehovah's Witnesses 665 0.714%
Adventist 621 0.667%
Eastern Orthodox 375 0.403%
Latter-day Saints 298 0.320%
Scientology 190 0.204%
Hindu 119 0.128%
Santeria 117 0.126%
Sikh 14 0.015%
Baha'i 9 0.010%
ISKCON 7 0.008%
-------------------- ------ --------
Total 93,112 100.000%





Though I think we're starting to drift away from heroes to NGD talk.

[McCoy]

There seems to be some doubt cast on that data on various sites online

http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html

If THIS site is to believed, a more accurate break down might be:




Though I think we're starting to drift away from heroes to NGD talk.
Still interesting. Would be interesting to see athiest and agnostics broken out of the "none of the above" category.

[moquif]

Still interesting. Would be interesting to see athiest and agnostics broken out of the "none of the above" category.
Agreed. If someone did not give an answer, what would that be listed under. Their main site does break "atheism" down into different types but the prison chart did not. Christianity and Islam are seperated by sect, so why not atheists? Is it hard to define or is there still the "no answer = no religion" confusion?

[Kristopher]

I really don't see what is so off base with this site. It does a pretty good job of looking at what's mentioned in comics and using contexts that are shown to figure out what the most likely religion is for popular comics characters.

Is it so amazing that the vast majority of comics characters are Christian or Jewish (taking into consideration the demographics of NYC)?

I think you are discounting it because it doesn't fit with your world view.

"Oh, there aren't any/enough Neo-Pagans mentioned, this list is crap."

"Megalomaniacal Narcisists who bow to no power are listed as being athiest/agnostic. This list has to be crap."

Actually, people are saying the site is crap because it uses incomplete information, erroneous assumptions, ethnic and religious stereotypes, and baseless presumptions to assign religious beliefs to fictional characters even when the beliefs of those characters have never been explored or explicitly stated. The fact that he calls most villains atheists, and the fact that feels the need to tack on "GLBT" to characters when discussing their religious beliefs, that says a lot about his unspoken bias and reasons for putting up that list.

[Lucius]

Probably never actually stated in the comics. Most likely assumed because she went to Brigham Young University. (BYU claims that approximately 99% of their student body is LDS.)

Sounds like a good reason for identification to me, but is that what the site said?

Lucius Alexander

And an invisible pink palindromedary

[Hermit]

Perhaps a thread on our own ideas of who would be what might not be a bad idea, though I worry it might soon burst into flames...

My own opinion is that comic book characters faith, like their political party preference, is often kept vague on purpose in an attempt to make their appeal more universal.

[OddHat]

Perhaps a thread on our own ideas of who would be what might not be a bad idea, though I worry it might soon burst into flames...

My own opinion is that comic book characters faith, like their political party preference, is often kept vague on purpose in an attempt to make their appeal more universal.

Probably so.

I tend to think that most characters are one sort of Christian or another unless specifically named as something else. In the "it's fiction" category, non-human characters are probably following whatever religion they were raised with.

Superman is a weird case. Raised Christian, may or may not have practiced a Kryptonian religion at one point, and has run into a long list of godlike beings, ghosts, apparent angels, and apparent demons. Has also visited multiple heavens and hells. I'd suspect he's some sort of Agnostic at this point.

[McCoy]

Probably so.

I tend to think that most characters are one sort of Christian or another unless specifically named as something else. In the "it's fiction" category, non-human characters are probably following whatever religion they were raised with.

Superman is a weird case. Raised Christian, may or may not have practiced a Kryptonian religion at one point, and has run into a long list of godlike beings, ghosts, apparent angels, and apparent demons. Has also visited multiple heavens and hells. I'd suspect he's some sort of Agnostic at this point.
As most heros are American, I do assume a WASP background unless otherwise indicated.

Batman, on the other hand, probably was raised Protestant or Catholic, but I feel confident in saying he no longer believes in a Higher Power. He certainly is not willing to let God take care of Judgement or Justice, but obviously believes that if he does not bring certain criminals to justice no one can or will. He has met godlike beings and those claiming to be gods, and been unimpressed by every last one of them. Batman sees the Universe as a cold and unfeeling place, where Bad Things happen to Good People and random violence can strike the most innocent and undeserving. He has prayed on his knees, and heard no answer. He is an athiest, and if he believed in God would track Him down and make him pay for his injustices.

(And I'm calling him Batman rather than Bruce, at this point Batman is the real identity and Bruce Wayne as much of a tool used in his crimefighting as "Matches" Malone.)

YMMV, but that's how I see him.

[OddHat]

As most heros are American, I do assume a WASP background unless otherwise indicated.

Batman, on the other hand, probably was raised Protestant or Catholic, but I feel confident in saying he no longer believes in a Higher Power. He certainly is not willing to let God take care of Judgement or Justice, but obviously believes that if he does not bring certain criminals to justice no one can or will. He has met godlike beings and those claiming to be gods, and been unimpressed by every last one of them. Batman sees the Universe as a cold and unfeeling place, where Bad Things happen to Good People and random violence can strike the most innocent and undeserving. He has prayed on his knees, and heard no answer. He is an athiest, and if he believed in God would track Him down and make him pay for his injustices.

(And I'm calling him Batman rather than Bruce, at this point Batman is the real identity and Bruce Wayne as much of a tool used in his crimefighting as "Matches" Malone.)

YMMV, but that's how I see him.

I agree entirely with your assessment, but invite you to consider the comedy possibilities inherent in Amish Batman.

“I can shun you in twenty-five ways without needing to turn around.”

[Hermit]

For some reason the idea of Batman calling Superman "English" amuses me no end.

[FenrisUlf]

For some reason the idea of Batman calling Superman "English" amuses me no end.

Isn't there some Elseworlds comic in which Superman was raised by Amish farmers? Might be worth hunting down, if the Amish part actually plays a role in the story and is respectfully handled.

[OddHat]

Amish Superman really isn't that much of a stretch. When you're invulnerable to mundane harm and strong enough to move worlds, total non-violence isn't a problem. Cosmic foes could kill him, but otherwise it's almost the same character.

Amish Batman, on the other hand, makes me smile. :)

[moquif]

Amish Superman really isn't that much of a stretch. When you're invulnerable to mundane harm and strong enough to move worlds, total non-violence isn't a problem. Cosmic foes could kill him, but otherwise it's almost the same character.
I can see a Superman varient who takes the Amish shunning of technology to a whole new level. Not only does he shun technology, he shuns its effects. He is invulurnable to any harm/effect produced by technology. A gun wouldn't hurt him but Joe Goon's right hook could.

[Karmakaze]

Apparently his prejudice against athiests isn't unusual:

Atheists identified as America’s most distrusted minority, according to new U of M study (http://www.ur.umn.edu/unsreleases/find.php?ID=2816&from=umnnews)