How many points for the Earth? (and everything on it)

[Robyn]

In a Superheroic campaign, everything must be bought and paid for. Okay.

I figure we may as well start with the planet. After all, many supervillains have plotted to destroy the world, and if they can't do it with a single punch of their mighty fists, we need to give the Earth some resistant PD or something. Lots of it.

[Even then, most supervillains would probably just fail miserably; see Sam Hughes' guide (http://qntm.org/destroy) for more details.]

But even then, we still need to account for everything on the planet. Sure, the Earth provides us with a massive area-of-effect Life Support atmosphere, and this can probably be considered part of it since the Earth's gravitional field is keeping the air close by, but what about the trees? The humans? Their creations?

I figure cocaine would be a simple, manageable, starting point. The process can also be used as a template for creating *other* drugs (and I don't just mean existing ones - how many times have you wished that your supervillain could create a lethal airborne toxin to threaten the people of New York with?).

It's a Focus with charges, recoverable by manufacturing more. It makes people happy and causes mental damage, which could be done by Linking two Mental attacks (NND/Chemical?), one to Mind Control them into zoning out and believing themselves to be perfectly content (good thing ensouled Angel never took drugs), the other to permanently Drain their Intelligence and Transform them to have Psychological Disadvantages such as Addiction (a Dependency?) to the substance. It can be found across the entire planet (widely available), and has a Variable form (paste, powder, etcetera), unless the different forms should be bought separately. The powder form, due to its peculiar nature, is invulnerable to most physical attacks; you punch or slash a bag of powder, and you usually end up with a light coating of dust on your hands or the blade, but the powder itself, though scattered, is generally intact.

Let's take some of the fauna next. Humans: what's their base package? I haven't been able to find the rules for drowning, but I'm sure it could be translated into a "Dependency on Air: Very Common".

And let's not forget the NPC's who help out our heroes. Sure, this can all be done through roleplaying, but if you get firemen to aim their hoses at some fire-based villain who takes extra damage from water-based attacks, where are the points from this attack coming from? Sure, a Variable Power Pool for everyone in the city, Limited by "only as talked into it" would work, but why make things so expensive? More efficient, I think, to make conversation a Mental/Presence attack (with Special Effect "Roleplaying") that can persuade the NPC's within range to help out.

This could be fun. Sure, the HERO system (probably) wasn't intended to provide the mechanics for everything in the campaign, but if that was the case, they shouldn't have provided a "Superheroic" option! ;)

I wonder how many people will read far enough to recognize this as a parody (not that I don't intend to seriously calculate the point costs for all drugs! . . . someday). I would have identified myself as insane within the first line.

[ghost-angel]

"...and that's when he was strung up your honor. No sir, I don't remember who brought the rope."

[Kristopher]

Depends? Are we allowed to add megascale cheese to this sandwhich?

[Robyn]

Depends? Are we allowed to add megascale cheese to this sandwhich?

Sure, go crazy with Advantages. A hundred levels of Hardened, a thousand? You're the GM. You have infinite points.

[Robyn]

I found my notes for this right next to my notes for the sword PC. Both sets of data were originally gained from a phone call to my GM.

Heightened Alertness
Physical Reflex Enhancement
Needs Less Sleep
General Euphoria, king of the world
Increased bodily sensitivity pain/pleasure, cocaine numb

dilated pupils
brain damage

look really tweaky, talk too fast, not stop talking
extreme overconfidence
jitteriness
loss of appetite
facial and bodily tics
jaw damage, ligaments
irritability
addictive
ages body, accelerating metabolism
low-down, increases with prolonged usage
tolerance, up quickly short-term, fades 72 hours
1/8 milligram, 3 hours, .5, six 1/2, 6 1, methamphetamine, slightly stronger variant
pretty potent

Sure, only a fraction of this has been converted into system mechanics. But it's a start.

[Lord Mhoram]

"...and that's when he was strung up your honor. No sir, I don't remember who brought the rope."

I'm watching Babylon 5 right now so the approriate quote from me would be...
"And that's when I shot him your honor" :D

[Rapier]

It's immaterial.

The earth has as many points as it needs.

[Robyn]

It's immaterial.

The earth has as many points as it needs.

So then, a being with reality-based powers can't simply extend their mind and will the Earth out of existence? I mean, how many points of Drain would such a villain need, here? Sure, we could give the Earth a zillion levels of Power Defense, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to simply let it resist naturally with its active points?

[ghost-angel]

So then, a being with reality-based powers can't simply extend their mind and will the Earth out of existence? I mean, how many points of Drain would such a villain need, here? Sure, we could give the Earth a zillion levels of Power Defense, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to simply let it resist naturally with its active points?
Willing the Earth out of existence is firmly into Plot Device land.

Start Hero p197 has a discussion on this topic if you're truly interested.

Taking the tongue out of the cheek for a moment of serious discussion:

It's a stupid question.

[Robyn]

Taking the tongue out of the cheek for a moment of serious discussion:

It's a stupid question.

You said it, not I.

I'll just point innocently up to that spot in the first post where I identified this as a parody of the Superheroic option, and make the observation that the core rules don't seem to tell us where to stop figuring out point costs.

The main question was blatantly ludicrous, yes, if padded with just enough material to make it appear reasonable to attempt, but I hope that 5th Edition contains (or that 6th Edition will) some level of discouragement for new GM's who inwardly quail at the thought of having to calculate point values for everything. Perhaps an observation that, yes, you can put every last detail into the system, but it is recommended for the GM to avoid what won't be needed (soon). And, if not, hey - it's not like there are lots of us who read about Superheroic and wonder how far it goes.

The drugs part was serious, though. It lent the rest more credibility, too, don't you think?

[APE]

2378 points.

[ghost-angel]

You said it, not I.

I'll just point innocently up to that spot in the first post where I identified this as a parody of the Superheroic option, and make the observation that the core rules don't seem to tell us where to stop figuring out point costs.
Only characters pay for things with points. Unless a player/character is "buying" the earth, it's a moot point.

and yes I caught the part of the first post where this was a joke.....

however since ppl like to point out that Hero "needs" to stat everything out as a downside to the game ... some of us like to point out right back that you don't. At all.

[Robyn]

Only characters pay for things with points. Unless a player/character is "buying" the earth, it's a moot point.

Reminds me of the Landlord in that "Are You a Powergamer?" section of the sourcebook. Like "statting" the planet, there are some things that yes, technically, we can do, but really shouldn't :eek:

[CrosshairCollie]

For some reason, I'm flashing back to an old thread on the D&D Forums.

"How many experience points do you get for destroying Oerth?"
"All of them."

[Edsel]

I'd simply buy the earth as a base. Just buy up the hexes of area large enough to cover the entire planet. Since everyone is on the planet, you're done. It does not matter if the people who happen to be on this planet sized base are loyal or not, heck they are free to leave if they want (most lack the ability to leave though).

[Kristopher]

Sure, go crazy with Advantages. A hundred levels of Hardened, a thousand? You're the GM. You have infinite points.

I was just taking the chance to mention that I really dislike Megascale, especially after the Great Takofanes VPP debate...

[Agent 13]

For some reason, I'm flashing back to an old thread on the D&D Forums.

"How many experience points do you get for destroying Oerth?"
"All of them."

And here I was thinking back to that old issue of Dragon wrote in to find out what amount of XP he'd get since his character had killed Bigby, taken over Greyhawk and the like...

[Lucius]

Can I buy a base and put the Megascale advantage on it?

Lucius Alexander

The Palindromedary: Lucius, you ***, what makes you think you can put an Advantage on a perk?
Lucius: Hey, it's worth a try isn't it?

[Teflon Billy]

And here I was thinking back to that old issue of Dragon wrote in to find out what amount of XP he'd get since his character had killed Bigby, taken over Greyhawk and the like...I remember that issue, it was an April issue of Dragon where they published a whole slew letters to the editor that they received. All of them were of similar ridiculousness.

The Oerth one, was some dork who wrote in to tell Dragon that his character had destroyed Oerth and wanted to have everyone's character sheets who played in Oerth and the NPCs' so he could know how much EXP he should get.

TB

[SteelDoom]

Lets see:
Automaton: Maybe use starship rules to make a ship this size.
You'd need 6 billion followers, all loyal because (to quote the Tick), that is where they keep their stuff.
Granite (I don't have my book here) probably has a def of say 8? Body of 10? So apply mega scale to that to fit what is appropriate to a global AoE.
Life support, usable on others, AoE mega scale
Transform, Sunlight to BioForm, AoE selective megascale.

You could probably bring that in under 1000 points I think. Of course, to interfere with the earth you'd need a mega scale power at least as large.

[Robyn]

Lets see:

Repped for being the first person to seriously try to stat this. We need more lunatics like that (the sky's the limit!, to quote the Tick).


You'd need 6 billion followers, all loyal because (to quote the Tick), that is where they keep their stuff.

"Landlord: For only a handful of points, you can build a base with grounds that cover the known universe. The Landlord bought it. He owns everything. And for 165 more points, Landlord can have 4 billion loyal followers (that's everyone on Earth)." - Champions (4th Ed. printing, 1989)


Granite (I don't have my book here) probably has a def of say 8? Body of 10? So apply mega scale to that to fit what is appropriate to a global AoE.

I think the Earth's composition has more iron than granite. About a third, right?

[Dust Raven]

"Landlord: For only a handful of points, you can build a base with grounds that cover the known universe. The Landlord bought it. He owns everything. And for 165 more points, Landlord can have 4 billion loyal followers (that's everyone on Earth)." - Champions (4th Ed. printing, 1989)


That's all you really need I think. Well, a few more followers if you want to cover the current population, but then again there's nothing wrong with a few squatters.

[SteelDoom]

While I still prefer the mega scale concept that is a house rule because there is no maga advantage for Damage.
Looking at the base size chart with an approx diameter of 20,000 km you get size 33 costing 68 points. Using the table on page 448 "Wall Body" to get an estimate of the earth's body we get a disapointing 67 BOD, costing 67 points. I'll buy DEF to the same amount to represent over all toughness, that's another 195 points. For a modest total of 330 points.
The transform is a tricky one, but using the old KISS principle (keep it simple stupid) I will say that you are not making anything very large, but letting the components do that themselves. So lets say a 20d6 Major transform sunlight to biosphere healed back by entropy, AoE megascale +1.25, constant +1, zero end +0.5, gradual time -8 (a 1000 years, which may be a bit short), no conscious control -2 for a total of around 120 points.
I think I'll drop the life support, we have been created to survive in the local conditions and therefore don't need any special action to continue operating.

Base: 330
Followers: 200 (includes fauna)
Evolution / Act of Diety (Major Transform): 120

Total of 650 ponits

:drink:

[Guyon]

BRB .......doing the math.

[Cancer]

How can you stat out Earth without statting out the Sun? I mean, the entire surface biosphere has Dependence: solar energy.

[Guyon]

almost done.

carry the 2.....

[prestidigitator]

Err...42? No, I don't think it works.... :think:

[Thia Halmades]

Curse you, Presto. 42 was MY glib answer.

Eh... there's only one major problem with statting the Earth. I don't feel like it. That aside.

It's... size Planet (2.5545 × 10~14th meters) which is really, really large. It has a Force Field precisely powerful enough to stop being annihiliated by the sun, but weak enough to let through enough energy to heat & light the planet to such an extent that its indigenous life generally survive. If the weight is right, then it's a Size 80 vessle (Spaceship Earth). Weighing about 6.4 Billion Tons. Nice.

Life Support, Megascale, all creatures big & small.
Oh, and a big magnetic force field that keeps us all from getting killed, generated by our own gravity from out mass.

That's about it. If you want to take that over it's... 8 million hexes, according to my size chart.

Good luck with that. :eg:

[Dust Raven]

RKA 1d6. NND (defense is living, organic tissue), Does BODY, Indirect (any direction, origin), AoE (radius), MegaScale (enough to cover the planet).

Gimme less than a minute, and you won't have to worry about how much the Earth costs.

[McCoy]

Folks, this is one of my old players. Should have recognized you earlier. Glad to see you!

[CSgeekHero]

Err...42? No, I don't think it works.... :think:
If 42 is the answer, then what is the question oh wise Deep Thought?

[CSgeekHero]

Hey, waitaminute...That brings us back to designing the Earth.

Quick, call Slartebartfast!!

[Robyn]

Hey, waitaminute...That brings us back to designing the Earth.

Quick, call Slartebartfast!!

If we were going to stat Slartebartfast, would we give him the ability to create a planet, or a high enough skill level with "understanding and using the HERO system" to design the Earth with the HERO system? And, if the latter, how high of a skill level should suffice for that?

[Zeropoint]

It's disturbingly easy to destroy everything with a Does Body NND.

[prestidigitator]

If we were going to stat Slartebartfast, would we give him the ability to create a planet, or a high enough skill level with "understanding and using the HERO system" to design the Earth with the HERO system? And, if the latter, how high of a skill level should suffice for that?
He just has a disturbing Psychological Disadvantage. No skill necessary. ;)

[CrosshairCollie]

It's disturbingly easy to destroy everything with a Does Body NND.

I recall one old game I heard about, where the sole point of the game was to create the most horribly abusive lumps of points (you couldn't really call them characters) you could (250pts, 4th Edition).

Ones I remember include Admiral Annihilation, who would destroy the galaxy if he took STUN damage (and this was BEFORE Megascale), and had enough FTL and Life Support to fly to the next galaxy so he could do it again.

Also The Cleanzor, who had Life Support so he could live on the moon, and a horribly telescopic Detect Evil Mind sense, with a Body-Doing ECV Killing Attack, so he'd simply perch on the moon and kill every criminal on Earth.

There were 3 or 4 more, but those are all I could remember.

[Mantis]

Since I only came to this planet for the one adventure, I don't have to pay the points for it (at least until the sequel).