Beyond LXG

[fredrik_nilsson]

I admit that the name of the header is really bad, but I couldn’t come up with something better. Hopefully the moderator of this forum edits it.

Anyway, the reason I called it beyond LXG is because I intend to do something similar and I need some help to do it. From what I understand of LXG, every named character (except for one, I think) can be found in the Victorian literature.

I want to create a similar world, but instead of using Victorian characters I intend to use Pulp Fiction characters. A few characters from Film Noir, Gold Age Comics or the Victorian Age might be welcome, but the majority of the characters should be more or less obscure pulp characters. The reason why I prefer obscure pulp characters is to avoid a world where every NPC is more interesting than the players.

Is anyone interested in helping me create such a world?

----------------------------------------------

Provided that no one persuades me to change it, this is the current list of characters:

Hugo Danner by Philip Wylie
Gray Seal by Frank Lucius Packard
Captain Future by Edmond Hamilton
Bantan by Maurice Gardner
Dusty Ayres by Robert Sidney Bowen Jr.
Scimitar and the Sons of Liberty from the Fox Comic Samson

[st barbara]

Do you have a detective in that lot, or an occult specialist ? How about Madame Rosika Storey "celebrated psychologist and consulting detective" created by Hulbert Footner in 1922 (series ended in 1935) to handle the former position (And she's female as well !) and Algernon Blackwood's John Silence for the second spot ?

[st barbara]

Oh and what sort of help do you want fredrik ?

[fredrik_nilsson]

Do you have a detective in that lot, or an occult specialist ?
This is what I started with:

Heroes
Hugo Danner reminds of the Golden Age Superman
Gray Seal reminds a bit about the Golden Age Batman
Captain Future is a gadgeteer
Bantan is a Tarzan wannabe
Dusty Ayres is an aviator

Villains
Scimitar is a mentalist


How about Madame Rosika Storey "celebrated psychologist and consulting detective" created by Hulbert Footner in 1922 (series ended in 1935) to handle the former position (And she's female as well !) and Algernon Blackwood's John Silence for the second spot ?
They both sound great. Thanks!

[fredrik_nilsson]

Oh and what sort of help do you want fredrik ?
The game I intend to run will be a pulp superhero game. It will start out as normal pulp game, but it will gradually shift towards being a Golden Age superhero game. One common approach to run supers in a Victorian setting is to run it as a League of Extraordinary Gentleman game. I intend to do something similar here, but with pulp fiction characters (surprise, surprise!).

The world I intend to create will use as many pulp characters as possible, but initially I want to have a quite small roster of heroes spread world wide. To give the world a potential to become a Golden Age setting I want to use pulp fiction heroes that remind of the characters in the Golden Age JSA. I want to point out that don’t intend to create a JSA homage setting, I just want to have the JSA roster as an example of the hero stereotypes needed to create the stories I want to tell. Can you help with me completing/correcting this list:

The Atom: ???
Batman: The Shadow or the Spider
Black Canary: ???
Dr. Fate: Dr. John Silence
Dr. Mid-Nite: The Black Bat
The Flash: ???
Green Lantern The Lensman (at least they remind of the Lantern Corps)
Hawkman ???
Hourman ???
Johnny Thunder Aladdin of the Arabian Nights (is there pulp equivalence?)
Mr. Terrific ???
Sandman The Green Hornet
The Spectre ???
Starman Captain Future
Superman Hugo Danner
Wildcat ???
Wonder Woman Sheena (I’ll remove Bantan, since he fills the same role)

The villains will initially be standard pulp villains, but the difference between early super-comic villains and the late pulp villains didn’t differ that much anyway. I want to have help with finding the following pulp villain types:

Someone with a flying city
Someone with an own tropical island (preferably moveable)
A black magician (preferably if the voodoo type)
Pulp villains inspired by mythic beasts (jaguar queens, vampires, and such)
Pulp aliens (Little green men, space vixens, Martians, anything...)
Martial artists (preferably female)
Femme fatales

[st barbara]

Well for a "Black Canary" equivalent you could have Nellie Gray. She was an associate of "The Avenger" described as "The Emma Peel of her day,a blonde grenade of a girl, barely five feet tall with soft blue eyes, who could fling herself like a dainty projectile, scattering men like indian clubs" ("The Great Pulp Heros" Don Hutchison Pp 215). One of Robert E Howard's boxing heros could be a "Wildcat" equivalent perhaps Dennis Dorgan but I will have to check another reference book.

[st barbara]

Foir "Mr Terrific" you could use a real life person. Harry Houdini, master escape artist and star of at least one movie serial.

[st barbara]

"Iron Mike" Brennon, Sailor Steve Costigan or Dennis Dorgan could all fill the "Wildcat" role with ease !

[st barbara]

And for the Golden Age "Atom" I would suggest Henry "Homicide Hank" Armstrong. In 1938 he held the World Championship (boxing) title in Featherweight, Lightweight and Welterweight divisions ALL at the same time ! The only person to do this, ever. His full record (as quoted on "Wikepedia" )is 181 fights,151 wins, 21 losses, 9draws. 107 Knockouts. A "Mighty Atom" for sure !

[John Desmarais]

Here's a web site for you
http://www.geocities.com/jjnevins/pulpsintro.html

I recommend making heavy use of it's search function. For each character you're trying to find a doppleganger for, determine what teh key trait is your looking for and search for it.

[fredrik_nilsson]

Thanks for the help this far. :)

Can you please comment this list (pros and cons):

The Atom: Beau Quicksilver
Batman: The Shadow
Black Canary: Nellie Gray (The Avenger's sidekick)
Dr. Fate: Mandrake the Magician
Dr. Mid-Nite: The Black Bat
The Flash: Red Knight (or someone fast)
Green Lantern: The Lensman (help me with a name)
Hawkman: Tahara
Hourman: Lothar (Mandrake's sidekick)
Johnny Thunder: Marshal
Mr. Terrific: Jimmie Dale (or Doc Savage)
Sandman: The Green Hornet
The Spectre: Captain Satan (or someone supernatural)
Starman: Captain Future
Superman: Hugo Danner
Wildcat: Sailor Steve Costigan (or Joe Palooka)
Wonder Woman: Sheena

[st barbara]

The Lensman that you are probably after for your group is Kimball Kinnison.

[st barbara]

I'll admit I didn't know who "Beau Quicksilver" was and hat to check out that link. Love the write up !

[st barbara]

My onlu really negative thought is that I am not sure that "The Shadow" or "The Green Hornet" could operate too well in the same group as "Doc Savage" and "Kimball Kinnison". These last two can be SO straight !:rolleyes: Might make the team dynamic VERY interesting !:eg:

[John Desmarais]

Thanks for the help this far. :)

Can you please comment this list (pros and cons):

Green Lantern: The Lensman (help me with a name)


Why/how is a lensman operating in the past?

[Sociotard]

Doc Savage!

[Archon]

Doc Savage!

Doc fills most of those roles by himself. You don't really need the rest of the team when you have the Man of Bronze.

[fredrik_nilsson]

Why/how is a lensman operating in the past?
"How" is easy, since Captain Future is involved with the team. Didn't he have time travelling powers (or equipment)?

As for the "why"...

Either the President of the Solar System (James Carthew) or the Planet Police could request Captain Future to go to a certain year to fight some problem that has its root in the past. To his help the Captain decides to travel thru history to gather help. I don't know. This is the pulps, things aren't always that logical.


Doc fills most of those roles by himself. You don't really need the rest of the team when you have the Man of Bronze.
He is easily outshined by Hugo 'the Gladiator' Danner, but then again the Gladiator is this teams Superman.

[fredrik_nilsson]

I had almost forgot that the Planetary had a pulp version of JLA:

Tarzan (Lord Blackstock)
Fu Manchu (Hark)
Tom Swift (Edison)
The Shadow/The Spider/The Green Hornet (The Shadowy Spider)
G-8 (The Aviator)
Operator 5 ("Jimmy")
Doc Savage (Doc Brass)

[John Desmarais]

"How" is easy, since Captain Future is involved with the team. Didn't he have time travelling powers (or equipment)?

Actually, he didn't. The Captain Future stories were set in the future (1990 to be exact) but he had no time travel ability - he was basically a Doc Savage rip off in a space opera-ish setting. (I missed him in the list or I would have asked the same question about him that I did about the lensman).

[John Desmarais]

My onlu really negative thought is that I am not sure that "The Shadow" or "The Green Hornet" could operate too well in the same group as "Doc Savage" and "Kimball Kinnison". These last two can be SO straight !:rolleyes: Might make the team dynamic VERY interesting !:eg:

I wouldn't say Doc is really any more straight-laced than Superman or Captain Marvel - Batman seems to be able to operate in a team with either. It can work if people want it to.

[John Desmarais]

The Spectre: Captain Satan (or someone supernatural)

How about the Ghost?


Ghost (II). The Ghost (II), Brian O'Reilly, was created by Wyatt Blassingame and appeared in Ace G-Men beginning in September 1939. He's a former stage magician who was forced to kill a foreign agent. In the aftermath of that fight he was declared legally dead, but the FBI began employing him as an undercover agent. He reported directly to The Chief (aka J. Edgar Hoover) , and used his magician's skills of disguise, sleight-of-hand, and ventriloquism to track down and catch the bad guys.

He's not supernatural, but (legally at least) he is a dead man.

(There just weren't a whole lot of truly supernatural pulp characters.)

[OddHat]

If you take a Wold-Newton approach, Nellie Gray is the daughter of Tarzan, Lord Greystoke. She makes a reasonable Wonder Woman (or Black Canary) if you include the Tarzan link. Tarzan gives her a Lost World link, and WW was always in part a Lost World Character.

Nick Carter once visited a hidden valley that included invisible planes and belts that gave the (Blond haired blue eyed) natives Superstrength. You could home brew a Wonder Woman tribute that way.

I posted a sheet for Hugo Danner (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39648&highlight=Dayna+Clayton) a while back, but he is the Wold Newton version. I also posted a sheet for Daya Clayton (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40115&highlight=Diana+Clayton), my own home brew Pulp Wonder Woman. You might consider Pat Savage for the Wonder Woman role; unfortunately, most of her Pulp Heroine value is ret-conned. In the original stories, she was talked up, but never really broke the stereotypes of the period.

Jess Nevins pulp pages are a treasure trove for this stuff.

The Golden Age Green Lantern was not part of the GLC until he was retconned in; I would go with someone like Captain Philip Strange, a military guy with psychic powers, rather than import a Lensman. OTOH, Strange was kind of a lame G-8 ripoff, and he was depowered completely as the series went on.

Mandrake was active in the 1930s, as was Doctor Occult, but neither were pulp characters per-se. Mandrake makes a good Zatara / Zatana type.

For a timeline that assumes most of the pulps were "real", see HERE (http://bobtokyo.robertdorf.com/Timeline%20II.htm). This is very much a pulps to comics timeline; the Wold Newton pages present a more Pulps to SF path.

[fredrik_nilsson]

Actually, he didn't. The Captain Future stories were set in the future (1990 to be exact) but he had no time travel ability - he was basically a Doc Savage rip off in a space opera-ish setting. (I missed him in the list or I would have asked the same question about him that I did about the lensman).

I've never read anything about the Captain, but if you read the third paragraph about the Captain on Jess Nevins page you see the following:

--------------------------------------------------

He wears a blue "synthe-skin" zipper suit and uses, among other advanced weaponry, a "proton pistol" and "antigravity boots." His arch-enemy is the Magician of Mars, a Martian half-breed and the son of Victor Kaslan; he is almost as brilliant as Captain Future himself, and challenged Curtis in The Seven Space Stones and The Magician of Mars before finally being killed in The Solar Invasion. Cap travels in time as well, going back a hundred million years in one story and, in another, three billion years backwards, to save the natives of the planet Katain.

--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, if he's to close in character concept to Doc Savage I might as well remove him from the group.

[fredrik_nilsson]

How about the Ghost?
Wow, that's more or less identical to the Spectre. It's not hard to see how the character evolved to being a true supernatural.

[fredrik_nilsson]

Tarzan isn't a Hourman per se, but his "powers" (the adaption to the wild, and the animalistic ferocity) are almost as limited. G-8 isn't a speedster, but he is a fast flying aviator.

The Atom: Beau Quicksilver
Batman: The Shadow
Black Canary: Nellie Gray
Doctor Fate : Dr. John Silence
Doctor Mid-Nite: The Black Bat
The Flash: G-8
Green Lantern: Captain Philip Strange
Hawkman: Richard Seaton of the Skylark series
Hourman: Tarzan
Johnny Thunder: Marshal
Mister Terrific: Operator 5
The Sandman: The Spider
Starman: Flash Gordon
The Spectre: The Ghost (Brian O'Reilly)
Superman: Doc Savage
Wildcat: Sailor Steve Costigan
Wonder Woman: Sheena

[John Desmarais]

Wow, that's more or less identical to the Spectre. It's not hard to see how the character evolved to being a true supernatural.

Yeah, the similarities caught my attention as well.

[fredrik_nilsson]

Yeah, the similarities caught my attention as well.
Thanks for showing me the character. The Spectre is one of my favorite DC characters, so see this one was very fun. :thumbup:

[fredrik_nilsson]

Could this work?

GOLDEN AGE JSA MEMBERS
The Atom: Beau Quicksilver
Batman: The Shadow
Black Canary: Nellie Gray
Doctor Fate : Dr. Ralph Morgan
Doctor Mid-Nite: The Black Bat (Tony Quinn)
The Flash: Red Knight (Alan Knight)
Green Lantern: Professor Diel
Hawkgirl: Dorothy Vaneman (Richard Seaton's girlfriend)
Hawkman: Richard Seaton
Hourman: Craig Kennedy
Johnny Thunder: Marshal
Mister Terrific: Garry Grayson
Sandman: Gray Seal (Jimmie Dale)
Sandy the Golden Boy: Benson (Jimmie Dale's chauffeur)
Starman: The Electrical Man (Miller Rand)
The Spectre: The Ghost (Brian O'Reilly)
Superman: Doc Savage
Wildcat: Joe Palooka
Wonder Woman: Sheena

Non-JSA
Crimson Avenger & Wing: Green Hornet & Kato
Dian Belmont (Sandman's girlfriend): Marie LaSalle (Jimmie Dale's girlfriend)
Doctor Occult: Mr. Mystic
Mr. America: Black Barr
Red Tornado: Pamela North
Zatara: Mandrake

[Yansuf]

This is what I started with:


Bantan is a Tarzan wannabe


I have never read the Bantan books, but if you are interested a local bookstore has the complete collection,
Want me to send you the contact info?

[fredrik_nilsson]

Want me to send you the contact info?
Yes, please. Provided that they have an Internet shop (I live in Sweden).