Negative stats?

[Schwarzwald]

I've looked thru some stuff and see something that perplexes me: Why do stats go into the negatives? I mean, I understand some creatures have negative strength, for example.


Is this due to game mechanics? If so can someone explain how negative strength works? I'd assumed to do strength less than 1, decimals would be used.

I'm curious about this.

BTW, no need to explain negative intelligence, that I have seen enough of to understand.

[Dust Raven]

STR, as far as lifting is concerned, calculated exponentially. Basically, for every +5 STR, you lift twice as much, and for every -5 STR, you lift half as much. Because the default STR of 10 lifts 100kg, you end up with 0 STR lifting 25kg, and -5 STR lifting 12.5kg and so on. So basically, yes, it's due to the game mechanics.

Other Primary Characteristics at negative values have their own effects, but none of them act like STR in this case. For the most part it just relates to what the character can't do reliably any more (or can't do at all because the Characteristic is too far into the negative).

The specific effect of each is discussed in the main rulebook, but I'm not sure about Sidekick.

[prestidigitator]

As to why, there are Powers that can drain (in fact a Power called Drain is one of them) your Characteristics to below their normal values. Even into the negatives, which can have some interesting and often devestating effects.

[Dust Raven]

As to why, there are Powers that can drain (in fact a Power called Drain is one of them) your Characteristics to below their normal values. Even into the negatives, which can have some interesting and often devestating effects.

Correctly. With the exception of STR and sometimes COM, characters are rarely bought with a negative value for their Characteristics. The only way to get them there is through the use of Attack Powers (such as Drain or Transfer) against them. The mechanic is there to let us gamers know what in game effects are.

[Lucius]

Correctly. With the exception of STR and sometimes COM, characters are rarely bought with a negative value for their Characteristics. The only way to get them there is through the use of Attack Powers (such as Drain or Transfer) against them. The mechanic is there to let us gamers know what in game effects are.

Although maybe I should try it sometime.....

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary asks what characteristic other than STR or COM I could possibly contemplate buying at negative to BEGIN with....

[CrosshairCollie]

The palindromedary asks what characteristic other than STR or COM I could possibly contemplate buying at negative to BEGIN with....

The collie recommends 'Not BODY'.

[ghost-angel]

You cannot buy any characteristic below 0, with the exception of STR or COM.

It requires GM Permission to buy any Characteristic below 5 (5ERp39; SDKp19).

Sidekick does not go over the consequences of Negative Stats.

in brief negative DEX, CON, INT, EGO or PRE require rolls just to act in some manner - the act in question determines which roll is needed. Any movement needs a DEX roll, expending END needs CON... et cetera.

at -30 to any of the above Stats you do NOTHING related to the stat.

negative BODY has its own rules (usually involving dying....)
negative COM also has it's own rules.
negative STR is used specifically to model things like the lifting capacity of a gecko or puppy....

[Captain Obvious]

The collie recommends 'Not BODY'.

If a character starts out with negative BODY, does he die when someone heals him up to the negative of his BODY? :think:

[Zeropoint]

By a strictly literal inerpretation of the rules, yes. As discussed in this thread (http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25060&highlight=ever-dying), a character with a negative starting BODY ends up being effectively unkillable.

[David Johnston]

If a character starts out with negative BODY, does he die when someone heals him up to the negative of his BODY? :think:

Well, there's an intriguing idea. It suffers, however from negative BODY meaning that you are already dead. Not undead. Just dead dead.

[Zeropoint]

Nope. Being at negative Body means you're in the process of bleeding out. Your current Body score is dropping (i.e. getting more negative). When you reach the negative of your starting Body, you die.

But, if your starting body IS negative, the negative of your starting Body is a positive number, and bleeding damage (or any other kind of Body damage) takes you FURTHER from the point of death.

See 5er p. 413 for details.

The solution to this seeming paradox is not to find a reason why it doesn't work that way, but to have some fun with the implications, and not allow the "negative starting Body" construct to ever actually exist.

Zeropoint

[gojira]

*ahem* :D


-300 points, Phys Lim (Dead). You can't do anything because you're DEAD. You may take no actions. You may not make presence attacks or soliloquies. You just have to lie there and rot. You can hang out and hope that a necromancer or grave robbing henchman happens by and will involve you in the plot. But pretty much nothing is going to happen because you're DEAD. You do could also plan what you are going to do with the extra 300 points you got for being dead, which is fine, seeing as you are going to have lots of time on your hands. On the plus side, you are not affected by mental powers at all. On the down side (there's worse than being dead?), you can't abort to any manuvers, and since your body is likely already pretty negative, physical and energy attacks are going to mess you up good.

Anyone making a character with negative BODY needs this disadvantage.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Crunchy Frog put out a Teenagers From Outer Space supplement called the '93 TFOS Yearbook; it was mainly NPC write-ups.

There was one NPC in there with a straight 4.0 average, perfect attendance record, and was one of the most popular kids in school. His name? Irving Robert Ded (I.R. Ded) or "Irod" for short.

No one's ever seen him move. He's often used as a club by stronger students.

His Bod (BODY) and Bonk (STUN) stats aren't zero, they're "-" (n/a) because he doesn't have them. He's dead, you see.

He was a neat NPC that was a lot of fun when I was GMing TFOS! :D

[Blue]

*ahem* :D



Anyone making a character with negative BODY needs this disadvantage.
I wouldnt' give it more than 30pts.

I'd be darn curious as to what they spend them on ;)

[CrosshairCollie]

I wouldnt' give it more than 30pts.

I'd be darn curious as to what they spend them on ;)

Decomposition: 2" Images to Smell/Taste Group, Persistent, Always On, Set Effect (Ewwwwwww), liked with Aid to Plant Growth. :D

[Lord Liaden]

Schwarzwald, this is one of the occupational hazards of playing HERO: you become addicted to statting up every cool or weird-@$$ thing you see or imagine, because you can. :D

[gojira]

I wouldnt' give it more than 30pts.

I'd be darn curious as to what they spend them on ;)

Well, when I wrote this up it was for a thread titled "The Ultimate Disadvantage" and I figured that it would have to be worth a wopping amount of points, death being the ultimate disadvantage and all.

Either way, 30 pts or 300, it doesn't matter. The character is still DEAD. ;)

[Krieghandt]

Actually, buying a horror creature with -body, then turning it loose on the party. Hmmmmmmm. Every time it was stunned it would appear dead, until the stun was recovered. Now, stun would need to be replenshied by an outside party, giving the party 2 ways to stop it. Yep, meets the horror requirement, stoppable, but uneffected by normal means.
Krieghandt

[Foxiekins]

Actually, buying a horror creature with -body, then turning it loose on the party. Hmmmmmmm. Every time it was stunned it would appear dead, until the stun was recovered. Now, stun would need to be replenshied by an outside party, giving the party 2 ways to stop it. Yep, meets the horror requirement, stoppable, but uneffected by normal means.
Krieghandt

Why would STUN need to be replenished from outside...? STUN is recovered by your REC, which comes from STR and CON, while STUN comes from both of those as well as BODY...