HD 1/2 END Math

[Killer Shrike]

Noticed this today moving a character over to HD v3. Both v2 and v3 do this (and I just never noticed it before in v2).


I have a character with 6" of Running base, and a Power with +2" of Running and 1/2 END, with the Apply Modifiers to Base Characteristic option check.

I would expect the END cost to be a total of 1 (superheroic END); the AP for the Reduced END Advantage should not count for END purposes, so 16 AP for 8" of Running = 2 END normally, cut in half to 1 END.

However, the Power itself costs 1 END, and if I flip over to the characteristics tab the base Running costs 2 END. So instead of going down a point of END, it went up.


So to fix this I instead bought all 8" of Running from the characterisitcs tab and left the Power at 0" with 1/2 END and Apply Modifiers check on. Then the Power itself costs no END, and the Characterisitcs table reflects 1 END. For this particular character thats workable.

However, it would be preferable if it worked the other way for characters that have similar abilities in MP's, VPP's, with other limitations applied to the extra running, and so forth.

Thanx!

[Simon]

HD's math is correct. The Characteristics tab is showing the total END cost for the Running (assuming you use both the Power and the Characteristic, since it sounds like you've selected to have the Running Power add to the primary total).

The Running Characteristic, at 1/2 END costs 1 END to use. The Running Power at 1/2 END costs 1 END to use. To use them both costs 2 END. You make the calculation at each step. Purchasing all of the Running as a Characteristic means that there is a single calculation for the END, so you end up with a total of 1 END being spent.

All according to the rules and not something that should be changed.

[Killer Shrike]

Hold on a second -- adding 1/2 END to Running shouldnt make the power cost more END than if you didnt apply the advantage in the first place, even if the rounding is occuring at each step.

The way its currently reflected it looks like you would have to pay the 2 END reflected for the 8" of Running on the characteristics screen and 1 more END for the +2" 1/2 END portion of that reflected on the Powers tab.

It sounds like youre saying that the 2 END shown on the Characteristics tab is the sum total and to disregard the 1 END on the Powers tab and I can live with that as a education issue for the player, but heres what I have a problem with:

8" of Running would normally cost 2 END anyway. Therefore taking part of it as a Power and applying 1/2 END to it means the 1/2 END part does nothing, yet the character has paid points for it. While HD is calcing this correctly according to the (slightly tweaky) HERO System rounding rules, the idea of paying points for an ability that does nothing is just wonky.

I was using the "Apply Modifier To Base Characteristic option because I thought it would auto-reflect the total END appropriately, but I wonder what the math would work out to if I instead bought +2" of Running as a Power and then bought an NPA 1/2 END on 16 AP of Running...Ill try to remember to check that out tonight when I get home.

[Simon]

If you purchase Running in multiple increments, each increment will cost a minimum of 1 END.

To take a different example:

60 STR

If you purchase this as simply 60 STR on the Characteristics tab, it costs you 6 END to use.

If you purchase it instead as 60 +1 STR Powers on the Powers tab (60 different items), it will cost you 60 END to use.

Running is no different. In the first case, you had a Running characteristic (which had its END use halved, though the minimum with 1/2 END is still 1 END) and a Running Power (which had its END use halved, though the minimum with 1/2 END is still 1 END). Add the two together and you have 2 END.

In the second case, you had Running as a single purchase (Characteristics tab). You applied 1/2 END to this singular purchase and ended up with 1 END.

Both cases are correct according to the rules of the system.

[Killer Shrike]

Yeah -- Im saying I see your point about HD doing it correctly according to the rules.

And further saying, in a conversational aside not intended to imply or suggest that HD is doing anything incorrectly, that the rule seems to violate common sense to me, and speculating on what the results would be if as an experiment I tried the same end effect via an NPA.