Will DnD 3.5 release in July help or hurt FH?

[tgaptte]

Since both FH and DnD 3.5 will be released in July, I was curious what folks thought about whether this would help or hurt FH sales?

For me, it seems to be a bad thing, as it will draw money/attention away from FH. I think this was what DOJ was trying to avoid when they placed the FH release where they did...to avoid the 800 lb WOTC gorilla. And I wonder if WOTC is releasing 3.5 in July on purpose! ;D

Tim

[Tclynch]

Wow, never realized they were coming out about the same time. Well, people will be looking for FANTASY rpgs then so it may help, but I fear it will be buried under the d20 avalanche...:(

[Derek Hiemforth]

I dunno... I suspect it might help just a bit. I know several D&D players who are somewhat annoyed with the whole 3.5 release thing. Maybe some folks'll be on the lookout for a D&D alternative. :)

[Ghost Archer]

I think the markets are set already. Those of us that know the 'One True Game System' will buy FH regardless of the crap WOTC puts out, no matter how 'NEW and IMPROVED" they might try to make it. Those that have not seen the light of the 'One True Game System' will continue to to travel their road in ignorance. Only through constant proselytizing will we, the Few and the Right, convert the poor souls of d20 Hell to the Truth.

On a less zealous note, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find an office memo in WOTC's e-mail saying some thing to the effect "RD will make insignificant changes and corrections in our current system as quickly as possible and it's release will be targeted on such a date as to limit the market effect of debut of HERO Games new, and inferior, fantasy entry. This system presents little challenge to our dominant and superior d20 system but all efforts must be made to stifle the competition. All Hail the Dodecahedron!"

I'd have to give my vote to "Other". I doubt anything WOTC does will effect the 'core' of HEROdom but will it effect newbies buying their first game? Probably.

[BobGreenwade]

It could go either way. I assume both tomes are being released at GenCon, and both will generate some excitement.

Really, I think what will make FH take off will be the release of the HERO System Grimoire. That more than anything else will make FH competitive with D&D among entry-level gamers.

[Koshka]

I think I read that FH is planned as a GenCon release, and if WOTC isn't releasing at least one book of 3.5 at GenCon they're bonkers. All those gamers with vacation money in their hands looking for something to buy?

Hmm, maybe we could plant some Hero fans with flyers by the line for 3.5? If it's as long as the one for the original 3rd edition release, they'd certainly have time for promotion. :D

[Monolith]

I agree with Bob. I think the Grimoire and Monsters, Minions, & Marauders will be the books which really make Fantasy Hero take off. Fantasy Hero is a munch-wanted book, but it is the support material which will make it truly useful to new, or potentially new, gamers.

The only way 3.5 can hurt the sales of Fantasy Hero is if gamers buy the new Player's Handbook at Gen Con before they get to the Hero booth, and thus do not have enough cash left to buy Fantasy Hero. :)

[Blue]

It never helps to have your gaming dollar splintered, and invariably the bigger name product gets the first choice of cash. It's the way of the world.

Having said that, FH will just have a more steady climb rather than having gangbuster opening month sales. It will just take longer for people to realize the product is there.

[Thag13]

I think it hurts in the short run, but overall , Fh sales wont be affected that badly.

I am not sure how many gamers are going to switch over or try FH until the magic book and at least one background books is out.

Hey Ill be buying two copies of FH first day....

[Balok]

I think the books (rule systems) appeal to different sorts of people.

d20 works best when people want a lot of work done for them, and don't particularly care about the ... infrastructure? meta rules? I'm not sure what to call it, but in d20, feats are just "there", with no (public) attempt to explain how they were balanced (except in very general terms). Note that this is not necessarily a bad thing, just a different thing.

HERO is for folks who like to see how things fit together, so they can easily "roll their own".

Folks who were going to race out and buy 3.5 probably weren't going to be a huge share of FH buyers. Folks who eagerly await FH probably won't buy 3.5, or at least, not right away.

As always, my 2.39¥

[misterdeath]

AFAIK, the 3.5 release is actually supposed to hit the stores before GenCon.

And, don't forget Monte Cook's very own Players Handbook (Arcana Unearthed) is supposed to be out the month after GenCon.

Lots and lots of fantasy stuff out. Personally, I think it'll help. If people are going to have to buy new books (yeah, the SRD is supposed to be updated, so the d20 changes should be free), then people're going to look around and see what's available.

Because, thanks to the insights into 3.5 that we've gotten, it doesn't seem that it's as backwards compatible as we were lead to believe. They're changing a lot of stuff, rebalancing things.

But, if I'm going to have to go to the trouble to mix and match stuff, and try to figure out how to balance things for my game, well, look, there's the Fantasy Hero book, which will let me create exactly the Ranger Class I want. :rolleyes:

A rising tide lifts all boats.

D

[Tclynch]

Originally posted by Koshka
I think I read that FH is planned as a GenCon release, and if WOTC isn't releasing at least one book of 3.5 at GenCon they're bonkers. All those gamers with vacation money in their hands looking for something to buy?

Hmm, maybe we could plant some Hero fans with flyers by the line for 3.5? If it's as long as the one for the original 3rd edition release, they'd certainly have time for promotion. :D
AFAIK, WOTC is releasing ALL three books at the same time.

[sbarron]

I think it depends on the quality of FH. I don't doubt that Steve will put out a good book, but will it be as good as Star Hero? At this point, I think that any dedicated gamer who wanted to run a Sci fi game might pick up SH to enhance his game, regardless of the system he runs. Will the same be true of FH? (I think it probably will, but I am an eternal optimist. :))

If so, then word may get around that FH is the book to get for running fantasy games, even if you are planning on running it with 3.5. That would help sales tremendously. Especially given the size of the fantasy RPG market. Strong word of mouth at the GenCon could go a long way...

[sbarron]

Just to add to my previous thought...

I think that skimming through FH may highlight a lot of the short-comings of D&D in general. Many gamers have only D&D as their frame of reference for fantasy gaming, and never really think about what you can do in a fantasy setting that isn't in D&D. I think (hope) that FH will show them how far you can go with fantasy gaming when only your imagination is the limit.

For this reason, just having FH on the shelf will probably help sell all Hero products. Fantasy is the window through which Hero will get to D&D gamers. And at 800lbs, that's a lot of gamers!

[tgaptte]

Yes, WOTC will be releasing all 3 books at once, the first week of July.

Tim


Originally posted by Tclynch
AFAIK, WOTC is releasing ALL three books at the same time.

[TheEmerged]

Truth be told, they'll be closer to ships passing in the night than elephants bumping heads. I personally will be surprised if more than 15% of the 3D&D camp buys any part of 3.5 than the PlayHB -- and frankly, to hear the community sometimes you'd think that's the percentage that plans to buy the PlayHB. Of course, I suspect that's largely sour grapes -- that most of the whiners will buckle down and actually buy it.

[tgaptte]

Well, I hope you all are right...that all the traffic that 3.5 generates to the game store will cause more eyeballs to gaze upon the beauty that will be FH! I've seen the manuscript, and it is wondrous to behold!

Tim

[Vondy]

Sauron of the Coast isn't prepared for the delivery being made by Frodo Long and Samwise Watts...

One Fred To Rule Them All!

[SuperPheemy]

I think D&D 3.5 will ultimately help Fantasy Hero. Remember, HERO isn't in the market to replace D20 or Dungeons and Dragons. HERO is the game for veteran players.

As has been illustrated and experienced countless times over, HERO really needs someone familiar with the system to teach it to others. D&D on the other hand is designed and geared to introduce new players to the hobby without the need for a "mentor".

So, what we're looking at ultimately is an evolution of D&D. Ultimately new players will be picking up 3.5 (or 4th, or 4.125, whatever revision happens to be on the shelves at the time). They'll play D&D for a while, some of them will run into the limitations of the D20 system and start looking for a FRPG that fits their growing style better. AS fans of HERO, it's our job to find these emerging gamers and introduce them to HERO.

On a side note, it's been my experience that HERO encourages it's players to ultimately become gamemasters in their own right. Whereas the process of creating a D&D character is pigeonholed into a player mindset, creating a HERO character involves the player in some of the GM mechanics of the campaign. It's that exposure to the "behind the scenes" game mechanics (like learning that your signature ancestral sword is a 1 1/2d6 HKA OAF with Detect: Orcs) that gets players thinking in creative terms. By developing GameMasters for HERO, we ultimately sell more HERO books, because if anyone needs the rules, it's the GM.

It's been the motto of the FReD rebirth all along "Get more people to play role-playing games, and ultimately they'll find HERO".

[TheEmerged]

D&D -- minute to learn, lifetime to grasp all the exceptions.

HERO -- Hard to learn, easy to master