Help with a Star Wars type Campaign

[Checkmate]

Okay I was thinking about a campaign based loosely on Star Wars. I say loosely because I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, but I do like the whole Jedi thing they had going.

What I need help with is the slippage to the dark side. One of the ways I could do this is come up with an abitrary number system, then create all the "light" powers and all the "dark" powers and each dark power pushes them futher to the dark side...Blah.

I was looking on a few websites and really liked the idea of the different lightsaber styles. I also like the idea, of if you spent a lot of time learning how to fight, you're not so good at healing, or the subltler arts (may be something I incorperate into the system I can't come up with). If you use two lightsabers or the Darth Maul Lightstaff you're closer to the dark side than someone who uses on lightsaber.

Anyone have any ideas for a system to simulate this? I'd rather it not be just GM cavate, but I can't think of any other way.

[Teflon Billy]

Okay I was thinking about a campaign based loosely on Star Wars. I say loosely because I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, but I do like the whole Jedi thing they had going.

What I need help with is the slippage to the dark side. One of the ways I could do this is come up with an abitrary number system, then create all the "light" powers and all the "dark" powers and each dark power pushes them futher to the dark side...Blah.

I was looking on a few websites and really liked the idea of the different lightsaber styles. I also like the idea, of if you spent a lot of time learning how to fight, you're not so good at healing, or the subltler arts (may be something I incorperate into the system I can't come up with). If you use two lightsabers or the Darth Maul Lightstaff you're closer to the dark side than someone who uses on lightsaber.

Anyone have any ideas for a system to simulate this? I'd rather it not be just GM cavate, but I can't think of any other way.I would not have style or number of lightsabers used have any effect on whether someone slips towards the Dark Side. How they go about using the lightsabers, that should be what influences their slide towards the Dark Side.

TB

[Checkmate]

The reason I say style and number, is that website I was reading talked about some of the styles being more agressive than others. Also Vaaspad (yeah right like I could spell that right) the style used by S.L. Jackson's character is said to use the dark side so you have to be really strong in the force not to slip. It also mentioned dual weilding, is a little "darker".

That's the "in game" explaination. The REAL reason I'm going to assign HUGE dark side penalties to it, is to keep it rare.

[Eosin]

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23298

Lord Liadens tread on Hero System conversions. Scroll down to S and enjoy.

PS - Get your slippers and a cup of coffee cause you are gonna be reading for awhile. There are some great conversions out there (I did one) but the high point is the martial arts system put together by Nusord (sp).

[Dust Raven]

To model "slippage" to the dark side in Hero, I would recomend creating a Force Balance mechanic of some kind. Perhaps make it a Figured Characteristic. Something like INT/2+PRE/2+EGO. This becomes the character's Force Balance. Then list a number of generic types of actions (not Powers, Maneuvers, styles or similar as those are all inherently neutral) and assign a Light/Dark Side Modifier of -10 to +10 (negative would be Dark Side). Modifiers toward the Dark Side should generally have a greater value and be more numerous than those toward the Light; it's far easier to be selfish/emotional than selfless/calm.

Here's how it would work:
If the Force Balance Characteristic is positive, the character is aligned with the Light Side of the force. If negative, then the Dark Side. The character may choose if their FB is positive or negative at character creation (PCs should naturally choose positive). Everytime they perform an action on the Light/Dark Side Modifer chart (or one similar), their FB is modified by it's value. This is handled simiar to a Drain, and their characteristic returns to normal at the standard rate for Drains. Should FB change polarity, the character has slipped to the other side. Once there, you could require an EGO Roll (modified by how far to the other side the character has currently slipped). If the roll is successful, he's fine so far; aware that he's slipping but not over the edge yet. If the roll fails, he's slipped completey and his FB is at that point forward considered that polarity by default (the character could slip back of course...).

To further simulate this, Jedi/Sith shoud probably take a Physical/Psychological Limitation of some kind to represent their particular sensitivity to how the force reacts to their actions and intentions. Such actions aren't gonna matter much to other characters after all.

[Dust Raven]

The reason I say style and number, is that website I was reading talked about some of the styles being more agressive than others. Also Vaaspad (yeah right like I could spell that right) the style used by S.L. Jackson's character is said to use the dark side so you have to be really strong in the force not to slip. It also mentioned dual weilding, is a little "darker".

The style/weapon isn't in and of itself "darker". What it is is more agressive. Agression leads to anger. Anger leads to suffering. Suffering leads to... and we eventually end up all dark, broody and evil.

[PhilFleischmann]

Decide/figure out what the game effect of slipping toward/being in the dark side is. Then apply Side Effects of whatever that is to the "dark" powers.

It could also be done as a Susceptibility to *using* dark side powers - every time you use one of them, some effect happens that pushes you toward the dark side.

The Side Effect/Susceptibility damage could actually be the infliction of an additional Disadvantage. And it could be something a little deeper/crunchier than "become evil." It could work more like an addiction: the more you use dark powers, the more you need to use them. You might gradually gain a Dependence: Must do "something dark" every day or you start to take damage or lower your powers. A Side Effect or Susc damage could be a Transform, so it can build up gradually, and eventually "wear off" if you refrain from the dark side for a while.

This could have applications in other genres as well. A fantasy wizard who starts resorting to the "quicker, easier" dark arts, may find himself gradually gaining a Dependence: Must perform a human sacrifice (or some other bad thing) once per/time period or lost Xd6 of power.

This way it isn't just some abstract fuzzy personality change, but actually becoming dependent on dark stuff to maintain your power. If you want to "get clean", you have to go through withdrawal, i.e., lose some power until the Transform wears off. And of course, the Dark Powers are always available at full strength, so you don't have to lose any power as long as you stay on the dark side, which in turn deepens your addiction... :eg:

[Thia Halmades]

I like Dust Raven's concept of ... wait for it ... Alignment. And people say d20 is dead. Fools. *heavy Vader breathing.* Where was I? Oh, right.

So, couple things. Yah, no major difference in Light/Dark in terms of Lightsaber style. Luke's big deal was going Dark Side briefly in some book and he's a Duelist (single blade wielder). Darth Maul was just cool at the time. It's all in how you envision your fighting style, really.

I'd modify the Drain concept slightly and make sure that the Fade Rate was slow enough that murder (-10, to use the example) didn't heal back normally. In fact... I wouldn't have it heal back. You start with your value at (10/2 + 10/2 + 10 = 20) and I would assign that the attribute level of "novice." Then, as your character performs Good/Evil actions (prepare to have people say things like "Force point for that one?") they get Stronger in the Force.

Sebastian wishes to use the Force. The Force of "Don't type, pet me!" So let's say my cat is Force Sensitive (FB 20). We'll say that he stole Rocky's food (-2) but it's primarily because he was hungry broke & confused (-1, extenuating circumstances). You then place in a rough guage for what consitutes a Master of the Force. For example, you may only be able to purchase higher AP Light Side powers if your FB is at 30+, or 40+ or 70+. It depends on how frequently points are given out and how people play their characters.

At the far end of either scale should be some really amazing powers, with the custom limitation, "Must have FB (X)," where X is rather high, and the lim is pretty strict (-1 1/2, -2) to maintain that level of FB. If you go "below" your required level, you lose access to the power. For those who can't make up their minds, there are plenty of Neutral powers as well.

I have not reviewed Nusord's Lightsaber Dueling. I've heard it's the nuts. Anyway, converting SW is actually not a project I plan on undertaking - I just make comments when other people talk about it. :D Too big and rambling a project for my tastes.

[WhammeWhamme]

First things first: If someone wants an 'aggressive' style to be dark side inducing, I will make it so...


Okay. Even the most pure Jedi will have some emotions pulling them to the Dark Side; this is WHY it is dangerous.

So. Your EGO is your resistance to the Dark Side. You can stand total Dark Side Points' equal to your EGO.

Now. You gain Dark Side Points when

a) You do something to get them
b) You use a power marked as costing Dark Side Points (which is a -1/2 for 1/10 AP, and mandatory for certain powers).

Dark Side Points reduce your EGO for the purposes of resisting being tempted by the dark side or it's representatives (or presence, if appliable).

At DSP < EGO, you are fine. Every Jedi is in this range, just through being a force sensitive.
At DSP > EGO, you're walking a dark path. Your RP should reflect this. You aren't evil, yet, but you're falling.
At DSP = EGOx2, you fall. Please put on this black cloak.

Now, this system needs the points to fade over time. Otherwise Mace would be a Sith. :)

1) Using a Dark Side Power is paid once per use; this lasts for an entire battle.
2) You lose Dark Side Points whenever you successfully resist a temptation (meditation can allow you to force a temptation, by examining your feelings - this is how most Jedi spark off Dark Side Points).

[CrosshairCollie]

My gut instinct is a Susceptibility to performing Dark Acts (using Dark Side powers, giving in to Anger, whatever), with the 'damage' being Transform (change Psych Lims, all that jazz), healed back by redemption and performing Light acts/resisting the Dark Side. Partial Transform might be appropriate, as he starts having dark urges, wrinkles, pallor ... bad fashion sense ...

A lot of this, of course, depends on whether or not you're going to let the player continue to play his character after he turns evil. Typically, in Star Wars gaming, that isn't an option (unless you're running a Dark Side game, of course). This option lets the player mechanically recover himself. If you prefer a more free-form game, it's simply a matter of working with the player to see why he's acting evil (sloppy RP, intending to go evil, wanting to do a redemption story) and going free-style based on dramatic timing and plot pacing.

[prestidigitator]

My model has been to simply require a character who both uses the Force and commits evil actions to take a Character Disadvantage: Something like: Social Limitation, like commitment to a dark lord or monitoring by fellow Jedi; Hunted/Watched, usually by Jedi; Psychological Limitation, usually making it more difficult to resist impulses in the future; Enragned/Berserk; etc.

Unlike some Disadvantages accrued during play, the PC does get the points for Dark Side Disadvantages. These points can be spent on Force Powers (often it will be more aggressive/hurtful ones), or they can be saved until the character performs actions that might redeem him-/her-self, at which time the points could of course be used to buy off the Disadvantages.

[Checkmate]

The Side Effect/Susceptibility damage could actually be the infliction of an additional Disadvantage. And it could be something a little deeper/crunchier than "become evil." It could work more like an addiction: the more you use dark powers, the more you need to use them. You might gradually gain a Dependence: Must do "something dark" every day or you start to take damage or lower your powers. A Side Effect or Susc damage could be a Transform, so it can build up gradually, and eventually "wear off" if you refrain from the dark side for a while.

This way it isn't just some abstract fuzzy personality change, but actually becoming dependent on dark stuff to maintain your power. If you want to "get clean", you have to go through withdrawal, i.e., lose some power until the Transform wears off. And of course, the Dark Powers are always available at full strength, so you don't have to lose any power as long as you stay on the dark side, which in turn deepens your addiction... :eg:
I like this idea. It makes it more than something the PC's have to RP.

Yeah as I've said more aggressive styles will have a larger pull to the dark side, the only thing I can do to keep everyone from dual weilding or Darth Mauling it.

[Manic Typist]

What I am interested in is in the mechanics of someone who is a Dark Jedi becoming a Light Jedi.

Thoughts?

Oh, and don't forget: just because you've got a Dark Jedi, doesn't mean that that character is no longer playable in a group. It won't turn into a murdering psychopath. It will just have a very different way of ensuring it gets what it wants, but it is still perfectly capable of cooperating. As long as it suits its goals, hehe.

[Checkmate]

What I am interested in is in the mechanics of someone who is a Dark Jedi becoming a Light Jedi.

Thoughts?

Oh, and don't forget: just because you've got a Dark Jedi, doesn't mean that that character is no longer playable in a group. It won't turn into a murdering psychopath. It will just have a very different way of ensuring it gets what it wants, but it is still perfectly capable of cooperating. As long as it suits its goals, hehe.
You do "good deeds" and you start to swing the other way. The down side is of couse if you don't do "evil" things you lose power. Every day you don't do "evil" your power gets lower and lower. The lure is there because your dark side abilities would always be there at full power...for a cost :eg:

[Manic Typist]

But why would a Dark Side Jedi want to go back? Typically they are painted as being either indifferent to their current nature, or in denial.

I guess I could see some sort of massive epihany.

[Captain Obvious]

But why would a Dark Side Jedi want to go back? Typically they are painted as being either indifferent to their current nature, or in denial.

I guess I could see some sort of massive epihany.

Maybe they do it for their kids...

[Thia Halmades]

We all do it for the kids. MT, the path of Redemption is so steeped in literature that the real question is "How do I do it without it being a hackneyed cliche?" All great heroes in literature Fall. It's why we have a proper noun for the Fall. "The Fall! It's not just for Paladins anymore!"

You can be talked out of it. You can change your evil ways. You can see where others end up. You can get there by accident. You can do an epiphany, you can do it quietly. It can be a massive Force Purge after a giant fight too close to a Force Well. There's no "wrong" way to do it.

[Dust Raven]

But why would a Dark Side Jedi want to go back? Typically they are painted as being either indifferent to their current nature, or in denial.

The only differences between the Light and Dark side of the force is that the Light is contemplation and the Dark is pasionate. It's why all those Sith yak on about "unleashing your anger" and stuff. Technically, you could just as easily have someone fully turned to the Dark Side who instead unleashes their love and compassion. It's technically the path Anakin was taking initially, until his good hearted desires were subverted by evil. That's also the main reason why it seems like everyone on the Dark Side is evil... it's just too easy to become corrupted when your supernatural power is unbridled passion.

[Manic Typist]

The only differences between the Light and Dark side of the force is that the Light is contemplatice and the Dark is pasionate. It's why all those Sith yak on about "unleashing your anger" and stuff. Technically, you could just as easily have someone fully turned to the Dark Side who instead unleashes their love and compassion. It's technically the path Anakin was taking initially, until his good hearted desires were subverted by evil. That's also the main reason why it seems like everyone on the Dark Side is evil... it's just too easy to become corrupted when your supernatural power is unbridled passion.

Of course, since you cannot just restrain the Darker urges you might be experiencing (anger, hate, lust, etc) and stick soley with the "positive" ones, because then you wouldn't be having unbridled emotion.

What is a Force Well?

Oh, and thanks guys.

[Dust Raven]

Of course, since you cannot just restrain the Darker urges you might be experiencing (anger, hate, lust, etc) and stick soley with the "positive" ones, because then you wouldn't be having unbridled emotion.
Exactly. You gotta let it all out. Of course, you could just let out the "good fuzzy" emotions and keep the negative ones in check through light side contemplation... the whole "balance of the force" thing in other words... but for some reason those who make using the force a way of life always seem to pick a side.


What is a Force Well?
Never heard the term before.


Oh, and thanks guys.
Welcome.

[Manic Typist]

Exactly. You gotta let it all out. Of course, you could just let out the "good fuzzy" emotions and keep the negative ones in check through light side contemplation... the whole "balance of the force" thing in other words... but for some reason those who make using the force a way of life always seem to pick a side.




I don't think you could just let the "fuzzy" ones out, because then you would be violating the Sith philosophy of EMBRACING your emotions, all of them, while simultaneously violating the (apparent) Jedi principle of not embracing ANY of your emotions.

Instead, you would just be a Good Guy. ;)

[Dust Raven]

I don't think you could just let the "fuzzy" ones out, because then you would be violating the Sith philosophy of EMBRACING your emotions, all of them, while simultaneously violating the (apparent) Jedi principle of not embracing ANY of your emotions.

Instead, you would just be a Good Guy. ;)
That's what I mean. It's possible, but its not a method taught or approved by any existing order of force mystics. It's Us or Them, and Them are wrong!

[WhammeWhamme]

That's what I mean. It's possible, but its not a method taught or approved by any existing order of force mystics. It's Us or Them, and Them are wrong!


More that the difference between a 'good' and 'evil' emotion is contextual and based on what it inspires you to do.

Also, have you ever met a person who only ever outwardly expressed positive emotions?

As far as I know passionate people are passionate in general, and reserved ones are reserved in general - there's no 'I will be massively loving and caring and NEVER, EVER get angry!'...


It's hard to be disciplined when you're being emotional.



I for one can't be rational about my emotions.

[Dust Raven]

More that the difference between a 'good' and 'evil' emotion is contextual and based on what it inspires you to do.

Also, have you ever met a person who only ever outwardly expressed positive emotions?

As far as I know passionate people are passionate in general, and reserved ones are reserved in general - there's no 'I will be massively loving and caring and NEVER, EVER get angry!'...


It's hard to be disciplined when you're being emotional.



I for one can't be rational about my emotions.

Quite true, though I've seen people try. I've seen one succeed to a point, but I haven't seen him in awhile so I don't know if he's exploded or not yet. :)

[prestidigitator]

What I am interested in is in the mechanics of someone who is a Dark Jedi becoming a Light Jedi.

Thoughts?

Oh, and don't forget: just because you've got a Dark Jedi, doesn't mean that that character is no longer playable in a group. It won't turn into a murdering psychopath. It will just have a very different way of ensuring it gets what it wants, but it is still perfectly capable of cooperating. As long as it suits its goals, hehe.
Well, mechanically it means buying off some Disadvantages as far as I am concerned. Or maybe trading them in for more appropriate ones. Of course that is very secondary to the story, though. Atonement, while not necessarily sufficient, is definitely necessary.

[prestidigitator]

The only differences between the Light and Dark side of the force is that the Light is contemplation and the Dark is pasionate. It's why all those Sith yak on about "unleashing your anger" and stuff. Technically, you could just as easily have someone fully turned to the Dark Side who instead unleashes their love and compassion. It's technically the path Anakin was taking initially, until his good hearted desires were subverted by evil. That's also the main reason why it seems like everyone on the Dark Side is evil... it's just too easy to become corrupted when your supernatural power is unbridled passion.
Eh. I don't buy all of that. I think the Jedi are against falling to your darker emotions. As far as feeling love and all that, I think it is not forbidden to feel positive emotions, but it is forbidden to become emotionally attached, which puts you in a position of strong emotional vulnerability. Totally different reasons. Remember that Luke was told over and over again to, "let his feelings guide him." Anakin? He was pretty dark to begin with, unless it was all just really bad acting/directing.

[Dust Raven]

Eh. I don't buy all of that. I think the Jedi are against falling to your darker emotions. As far as feeling love and all that, I think it is not forbidden to feel positive emotions, but it is forbidden to become emotionally attached, which puts you in a position of strong emotional vulnerability. Totally different reasons. Remember that Luke was told over and over again to, "let his feelings guide him." Anakin? He was pretty dark to begin with, unless it was all just really bad acting/directing.

It's true though, and official according to Lucas. There's an article that summerizes the history of the Jedi and Sith on How Stuff Works that includes the philosophical differences between the Light and Dark side of the Force if you're interested.

When a Jedi uses the phrase "trust you feeling" he means feelings as in senses (specifically, the Jedi's sense of the Force), not emotions.

[sbarron]

Well, mechanically it means buying off some Disadvantages as far as I am concerned. Or maybe trading them in for more appropriate ones. Of course that is very secondary to the story, though. Atonement, while not necessarily sufficient, is definitely necessary.This is an interesting idea. While the character wouldn't really be "losing" power by swtiching sides, they would be having to use XP to buy off disads that weren't appropriate for a light side character. Then once they made the transition maybe the GM could let them catch back up with the party by taking light side appropriate disads a bit at a time.

Might be a fun character to play, actually.

[Ockham's Spoon]

It sounds like you are going to have to define the whole Light-Dark/Good-Evil/Love-Hate thing pretty well before you get going, and I leave you to that since it is your campaign. But I will throw out a thought on mechanics.

Assign all Dark powers some xd6 of Cumulative Mind Control as a Side Effect. This makes Dark powers slightly cheaper and hence more tempting. Once per session (or combat or whatever) total all the Mind Control dice of the powers used and see if the character is Mind Controlled to become more dark/evil/hateful. Then use the guidelines for emotion control in the rule book to moderate how far the character has been pushed to the Dark side. The more times they fail, or the more Dark powers they use, the further over they go.

This approach makes wiser characters (that is, more EGO) less susceptible to the Dark side. Characters with amoral tendencies will be easier to corrupt since it will take a lower level of effect on the Mind Control to convince them to become evil. It also allows for characters to break free of the mind control to go back to the Light side, most especially under circumstances that violate their Psych Lims (such as the Emperor killing your son).

__________________________________________________ ______
Books we would like to see: 101 Ways to Cook an Ewok

[prestidigitator]

This is an interesting idea. While the character wouldn't really be "losing" power by swtiching sides, they would be having to use XP to buy off disads that weren't appropriate for a light side character. Then once they made the transition maybe the GM could let them catch back up with the party by taking light side appropriate disads a bit at a time.

Might be a fun character to play, actually.
Right. And a nice GM might even let them sell back some of their Force abilities to gain the points to buy off those Disadvantages.... :)

[prestidigitator]

It's true though, and official according to Lucas. There's an article that summerizes the history of the Jedi and Sith on How Stuff Works that includes the philosophical differences between the Light and Dark side of the Force if you're interested.

When a Jedi uses the phrase "trust you feeling" he means feelings as in senses (specifically, the Jedi's sense of the Force), not emotions.
Official in the sense that he wrote it, or official in the sense that someone asked for his endorsement and got it like absolutely everything else that he has blindly put his stamp on?

Eh. Either way, I'll probably stick with my interpretation, at least for gaming. :)

[Dust Raven]

Official in the sense that he wrote it, or official in the sense that someone asked for his endorsement and got it like absolutely everything else that he has blindly put his stamp on?
I'm not entirely certain, as I havn't actually read the source material involved. If I were to guess, I'd say it's a conclusion drawn from several sources, the majority of which was not written by Lucas. In his defense though, I do know he does draw a line between what he's willing to allow published and what he's not. Granted, a lot of what he lets slide in without much thought are stories taking place apart from the main characters in his films, but I believe that he wouldn't allow for something to completely rewrite or overwrite his view of how something as fundimental to his universe as the Force.

Just my opinion on it though.


Eh. Either way, I'll probably stick with my interpretation, at least for gaming. :)

Always the best solution when dealing with a game among friends. :)

[Checkmate]

I believe that he wouldn't allow for something to completely rewrite or overwrite his view of how something as fundimental to his universe as the Force.
You mean like Mitachlorides (or whatever he called them)?

My opinion if good ole Gorgie stood to make a dollar, he's say anything or change anything.

[Dust Raven]

You mean like Mitachlorides (or whatever he called them)?

My opinion if good ole Gorgie stood to make a dollar, he's say anything or change anything.

I don't think so. His history in the business paints him as a man who's willing to take a loss (substantial losses) just to get his work done. He also seems very much a "this is MINE and I'll do it MY WAY" kinda guy. You can't tell him his idea sucks, or he'll just tell you that you don't get it or it wasn't meant for you anyway.

[Checkmate]

I don't think so. His history in the business paints him as a man who's willing to take a loss (substantial losses) just to get his work done. He also seems very much a "this is MINE and I'll do it MY WAY" kinda guy. You can't tell him his idea sucks, or he'll just tell you that you don't get it or it wasn't meant for you anyway.
Yikes...Since I started this thread, I guess I can derail it:

Everything Geroge Lucas has ever done points to one thing: All he cares about is the money. He doesn't care about artistic ability, nostolga, heck he doesn't even care about telling a good, epic story anymore.

Let me back up a little bit of what I'm saying. This will probably be long since the description doesn't lend itself well to shortend form:

Let's start with a look at his incredible lack of directing talent. He's taken great actors and gotten the worst performances ever seen out of them. Harrison Ford, in an effort to not come out and say GL is a horrible director, said that GL doesn't understand that acting is an art form. Actors have to try different things to see what works. GL's directing contribution: "Okay, faster, more intense". That was the amount of direction he gave his actors. There is actually a lot more to this if you care to look it up, but I want to keep this somewhat short.

This supports his lack of interset in the artistic side of the movies.

The actor that played Darth Vader (not the voice, but the man actually in the costume), was never told it wouldn't be his voice in the movie. The first time he (and everyone else except GL and James Earl Jones) found out GL dubbed his voice was at the movie's preimer.

Then in Return of the Jedi they dub over his image in the last sceen. Then just to rub more salt in the wound, that actor asked if he could be Darth Vader in the last sceen of Episode III, when Darth was in full get-up. Who would have known who was in the mask? What possible harm could it have done? Not to mention how the true fans of the movies would have LOVED to have that sort of draw back, yet GL said no.

Now let's look at the release of the movies. How long was it before Episodes IV-VI were on DVD? Let's see. First he released VHS, then he re-released the movies in theaters with changes (Greedo shooting first, can't be losing money because in this new age era, touchy-feely country that we've become, can't have Han being somewhat shady, even if it does add depth to the character)

Then after the release of the "new improved" movies, did he release the movies on DVD? NOPE, back to VHS for a couple of years. have to make sure the suckers..er I mean consumers, buy the VHS, THEN releasse the DVD so the sucker..dang, consumers buy both.

Then let's take a quick look at Episodes I-III, a whole pod race sceen which was nothing more than an attempt to sell video games.

Boba Fett sells, lets make sure we include him in EVERYTHING we do.

And the list goes on and on and on...well you get the point.

I've seen it a lot. People are so infatuated with the Star Wars name, they refuse to believe George Lucas is anything but a saint, even though ALL the evidence points to the contrary. I see past most of this because the only one of the 6 movies I thought was worth a flip, just happens to be the one George Lucas had the least to do with: Empire Strikes Back.

[Dust Raven]

I'm far from saying GL is a saint, and definately in the category he's not that great a guy. I just don't see him as "money grubbing" or greedy. Half of what he's done was done out of impatience. He wants a rerelease of Star Wars and he wants it NOW. DVD takes too long, so touch it up and release it on VHS. DVDs might be the up and coming universal format for films, but VHS is still the most popular (everyone has a VCR at this time). All of a sudden VHS is a dinosaur and DVDs are king... gotta do it again.

I won't deny what he's done has made him rich, but I don't think that's his motivation. He's just a bad people person and poor director that doesn't understand the art of acting (as opposed to having no interest in it... might boil down to the same thing though) who had a dream of "finishing" his pet flim he wrote as a kid and won't let anything stand in his way, including himself.

Besides, he's not the one making the big bucks on the toys and video games... the manufacturers are. If all he wanted was the money, all he had to do was ask for more (and the manufacturers would have given it to him too).

[NuSoardGraphite]

Actually, he had no intention of making lots of money off of A New Hope. No one did. Not the studios, not the investors, no one did. Sci Fi films simply didn't bring in very much money.

What happened was a complete and utter fluke. It was completely unintentional. After A New Hope, the studios, investors, the actors and most especially GL himself got caught up in the money gobbling monster they unleashed on the planet and it shows after Empire.

[prestidigitator]

Besides, he's not the one making the big bucks on the toys and video games... the manufacturers are. If all he wanted was the money, all he had to do was ask for more (and the manufacturers would have given it to him too).
Err...so that's why in terms of liquid assets he is one of the richest men on Earth? :nonp:

I'm not saying he is completely motivated by money, but let's not discount the monetary aspect. I think he just puts out a pretty blanket OK on just about everything and then doesn't feel obligated to be bound by what other people have done when building his own pieces. That way he makes money off of everything people, "contribute," to the Star Wars myth, but still really only considers his own work real Star Wars (he won't make a public statement to that effect because it would turn people off, but his actions speak for it).

[Dust Raven]

Err...so that's why in terms of liquid assets he is one of the richest men on Earth? :nonp:

The fact the majority that the majority of his assest are liquid is evidence that he doesn't care about the money. If he wanted money, he'd be spending it, investing it and using it to make more money. He isn't. He's just selling everything he creates, primarily because he thinks everything he creates is worth something and people sould buy it. I don't think he's after the money. He might certainly be on a power trip, but it's all about putting out product rather than raking in the cash.

[Checkmate]

The fact the majority that the majority of his assest are liquid is evidence that he doesn't care about the money. If he wanted money, he'd be spending it, investing it and using it to make more money.
Err you do know that his sound studio, his movie studio and his game company are all privately owned by GL right...and a lot of sits on his HUGE ranch? If that's not spending, investing and using it to make more money I don't know what is.

Side note: "Liquid Assests" means cash.

[Dust Raven]

Err you do know that his sound studio, his movie studio and his game company are all privately owned by GL right...and a lot of sits on his HUGE ranch? If that's not spending, investing and using it to make more money I don't know what is.

Side note: "Liquid Assests" means cash.

Yes, and with the majority of his assessets being liquid, it means he's sitting on a gold mine of cash, not investiments. Sure, he has what you and I (and prest) would call "investiments" but what Lucas would probably call "toys". He owns them outright because they're his and he doesn't want to share them, not because they are cash cows. The cash keeps on rolling and he keeps... letting it roll in; like he doesn't care. Which leads me to believe he doesn't care.

[Teflon Billy]

Yes, and with the majority of his assessets being liquid, it means he's sitting on a gold mine of cash, not investiments. Sure, he has what you and I (and prest) would call "investiments" but what Lucas would probably call "toys". He owns them outright because they're his and he doesn't want to share them, not because they are cash cows. The cash keeps on rolling and he keeps... letting it roll in; like he doesn't care. Which leads me to believe he doesn't care.Uh, you do know that he put close to a billion dollars of his own money into the research and development of digital movie cameras and technology?

I think that means the man has enough money that he doesn't have to worry about how he spends it, not that he doesn't care about it. He cares about other things, just not the mundane things like rolling nickels to pay the phone bill for the month.

TB

[prestidigitator]

Yes, and with the majority of his assessets being liquid, it means he's sitting on a gold mine of cash, not investiments. Sure, he has what you and I (and prest) would call "investiments" but what Lucas would probably call "toys". He owns them outright because they're his and he doesn't want to share them, not because they are cash cows. The cash keeps on rolling and he keeps... letting it roll in; like he doesn't care. Which leads me to believe he doesn't care.
He certainly did the right things to get the rolling started, and he certainly might care more if it didn't keep rolling in.... ;)

[Dust Raven]

He certainly did the right things to get the rolling started, and he certainly might care more if it didn't keep rolling in.... ;)

Maybe.

As to the other post, I know what he's spent his money on. All I have to say is that just about all of it he's spent on the further development of that pet Star Wars epic project of his. He's obsessed with it.

[Dust Raven]

Why hasn't this thread been tossed in the NGD yet?