WWYCD in the event of an approaching army

[Robyn]

Your PC is powerful, but even s/he can't stand against an army. And that's what's coming this way. Its soldiers are renowned for their brutality, and closing in on your location. You had a defense plan, but you don't know what happened to your allies, and there's a depressing number of soldiers headed your way from all directions. The civilians with you, desperate to escape the imminent beating, rape, and murder, want to commit suicide. But they're too cowardly to fall on their own blades, so they ask you to do it for them. To grant them a merciful death, instead of ask them to stand against the invading army in a hopeless battle to the fate worse than death.

WWYCD?

[Outsider]

Thag Targonsson : "I don't understand you people! You got the guts to die for sure, but not to take a chance on living? And a chance there is, even if it is slim. If you wont defend your town against all hope, then burn it to the ground! Destroy your goods, poison your wells, and hide yourselves in the country round-about! Leave the invaders nothing to loot and nothing to drink, and they will move on soon enough. Many of you will be caught, I am sure, but some wont. And where there's life, there is the opportunity to extract vengeance."

[Victim]

Laura can stand against armies; it's one of her specialties actually. If pretty much everyone wasn't magically cursed to think that she's dead, they so wouldn't have said that.

"Fine. Now I don't have to worry about hitting you parasites with my spells." She'll launch a quick barrage to them and some soldiers, then 'port out. It's not worth revealing her new tricks with War Magic, any custom spells, or dipping heavily into her defensive reserve to protect these people if they're not even going to try. Someone might be trying to draw her out, or exhaust her spells.
------------------------------------
Komorak will use his amazing speed to attempt to draw off the attacking forces so the people can escape. They'll need to send dozens of normal guys to drag him down, and he can outrun horses, so taking him out is a major operation. He'll also be looking for any massive fires (likely started by big area spells), and will try to get in touch with one of his friends who can hear a few words after someone says his name. Once the party gets back together, they'll stand a fighting chance. Or they'll be able to escape. If things get really bad, he'll try to buy enough time to hide his magic items so after he dies the baddies won't get them. Then after he gets better, he can recover them.

[sinanju]

Your PC is powerful, but even s/he can't stand against an army. And that's what's coming this way. Its soldiers are renowned for their brutality, and closing in on your location. You had a defense plan, but you don't know what happened to your allies, and there's a depressing number of soldiers headed your way from all directions. The civilians with you, desperate to escape the imminent beating, rape, and murder, want to commit suicide. But they're too cowardly to fall on their own blades, so they ask you to do it for them. To grant them a merciful death, instead of ask them to stand against the invading army in a hopeless battle to the fate worse than death.

WWYCD?

Hell's Angel has one schtick--fire powers. I don't think being burned alive is what they had in mind when they asked for a quick death. And in any case, she isn't about to murder a bunch of innocent people, no matter whether they want it or not. She'll do her best to defend them and help them flee, but kill them?

"That's NOT gonna happen."

[Captain Obvious]

Jurgen would draw on some historical situation where an outnumbered force held on against all odds in similar terrain, and would use that as a basis for organizing a defense. Besides having the good idea, he couldn't do much to get the fatalistic villagers to sign on. That would have to be passed on to his buddy Leonard, the bard.

[CrosshairCollie]

The benefit of people renowned for brutality is that they're rarely too particular about what they vent that brutality on. It wouldn't take too much Mind Control/Suggestion for Salla to get a lot of the bunch attacking each other and thin out their numbers while hiding behind a cozy Wall of Ectoplasm. Heck, she could just dominate the leader and have him decide that the villagers 'aren't worth the effort' and hike them away.

Tek would be too busy running away and/or begging for his life to worry about what these guys want. Then again, socially speaking, nobody'd ask for anything from a ratling and seppuku is a pretty Rokugani thing, so frankly folks, yer on yer own. ;)

Brawn would try to organize them; he's a good tactician and a fair speaker so he might be able to stir them. Either way, he'd not be one for the 'mercy killing' thing. "If you're that sure you're going to die one way or the other, at least take a few of them with you," sort of thing.

[Koshka]

Not playing FH currently (the GM prefers D&D), but if I may invite Arielle over from his game for a moment ...

She's capable of killing all of them (10 level wizard/4th level loremaster means she casts as 14th level, and she's got Chain Lightning), but she wouldn't do it. Maybe a fighter-type would have experience with mercy killing, but to her it would be murder.

Arielle would use Fireballs and the aforementioned Chain Lightning to open a gap in the surrounding armies and try to get the civilians to run away. If they refuse to flee, well, something weird is going on here, and she doesn't normally pack enough Dispel Magic/Break Enchantment to free everyone from the controlling spell. (She wouldn't think psionics as an explanation, not in use in her game.) In that case, she'd try till the last minute then Teleport away, and probably spend a couple weeks guilt-tripping with the two clerics and one paladin in the party once she finds them.

[assault]

So... these civilians don't know how to fight... Why not?

It doesn't matter.

If there are any significant number of males of military age, my character will offer to teach them how to form a shield-wall.

If not, he advises them on the best way of hiding.

If there are a bunch of men who could fight, but aren't willing to, well, they're not his problem.

[Thia Halmades]

Lord Captain Thia Halmades: "I'm sorry, I can't do that. The choice to live or die falls on you and you alone. My duty is clear - I will stand as one with the power of the Five on my side and hold back this tide. You, then, must make your own choice. The only guarantee I can offer you is that the Divine is watching, and they support the righteous. Stand, then, and stave off death. Stand and be counted among those who would not submit willingly to slavery and tyranny.

Or flee, with the children, while those able-bodied protect your escape. But to do nothing is to spit in the face of the Gods who granted you life, and the will to live and struggle and survive. I cannot, will not, grant you this death wish. Nor will I let you fight alone." Thia draws his blade, creating a Ring of Truth, inspiring those around him. He makes a PRE attack against the villagers to inspire those who can to fight, and those who can't to flee. He will then mount his horse, and charge INTO the army, wholly expecting to win. Because he's THAT GOOD.

Cmdr. Ellington Snow: Snow's comments would get me banned, because he's beyond twisted and evil. He would likely claim one of young village girls as a personal prize, insist on forcing the others to murder each other since it's what they want, injure the rest so they couldn't run and leave them for the army while making good his escape. Snow is an NPC. :D

Cmdr. Jerome Nicholaria. Jerome is the 2nd in command behind Thia, and counts as a full PC. "What, are you insane? Death isn't an option. Run, you idiots." *villagers plead desperately* "Relax, I said run, not 'run at them.' RUN. I'll take care of this. If any of you want to stay behind, I could use some help."

Jerome would then make the best use of the environment he could, planting traps, bombs, caltrops and expending his entire supply of nifty tricks in an attempt to at least slow down the assault, or confuse them long enough to gum them up. If they're that big they aren't moving very fast. He'd then send any stragglers running for the hills, and conceal himself and lie in wait. Ultimate plan: Wipe out the leader, preferably using his assassin training. Then run like the dickens before he gets into an extended HTH engagement which might well slaughter him. He's too smart to stand toe to toe with an Army, but he could certainly knock the leadership down a few pegs.

[Robyn]

So... these civilians don't know how to fight... Why not?

It doesn't matter.

It's false anyway. They know how to fight - they just happen to also be smart enough to realize that an army big enough to overwhelm their country's strongest heroes and sweep on into the capital, isn't going to be merciful towards a village or two that they "mop up" along the way.

[assault]

It's false anyway. They know how to fight - they just happen to also be smart enough to realize that an army big enough to overwhelm their country's strongest heroes and sweep on into the capital, isn't going to be merciful towards a village or two that they "mop up" along the way.

OK. Well, they should have escaped to the capital, or some equivalent stronghold, rather than hanging around to get mopped up. Or headed off into the nearest forest, or...

About the only way this situation could have happened would have involved a surprise attack.

Presumably, challenging the invaders' champion to a duel isn't going to work.

In which case, tough. My character isn't obliged to participate in the villagers' suicide pact, so he will leave, with anyone who would rather flee than stay.

If the villagers really want to kill themselves, they will do it themselves. The notion of having someone else do it for them is ridiculous.

This situation is not a moral dilemma. It's an absurdity.

[Old Man]

Simple Tim would probably just do what he was told to do, unless it conflicted with one of his psych lims. Then he'd get panicked and distressed.

[Captain Obvious]

We'd definitely need Tim to beef up the town's defenses, or at least its most defensible site. He'd be too busy to get too distressed until the bad guys showed up.

[Lethosos]

Well, I know I'm not responding as my Living Greyhawk dwarf... we already had invasion issues before, and we still have orcs in 1/3 of the Principality of Ulek. :D

But, as Hami no Zhu, Dragon-kin Chi-Mage (Heaven and Fire aspects)...

Hami would strongly advise evacuating the area, if no one's willing to stop them. Where these foreign barbarians came from (as the Empire is surrounded by seas on three sides, and a wall of nearly impassible mountains on the last,) is not his immediate concern, but slowing down this army is. Use a little Heaven scrying to check for army size, and start a humongous wall of fire to sweep towards them, as long possible. Then he'll start a scorched earth policy, denying them resources, and retreat as fast as he can. Hopefully the Empire's army can be mobilized just in time...

[input.jack]

Revenant: "No fate is worse than death. Fight or flee. Make your choice. NOW."

Revenant then goes out and begins his guerilla style ambush tactics to delay the invaders long enough for the inhabitants to get away. Long trenches filled with flame, snare and pit traps, that kind of thing.

[SKJAM!]

Gantha the Graverobber: While as a healer Gantha is conversant with the concept of euthanasia, he's not keen on applying it to perfectly healthy individuals. He'll pick the direction most likely to have his allies in it, and ask anyone who'd rather live on their feet than die on their knees to follow. There may be fighting, there may be death, but by the Goddess of Mercy, he will go down trying.

[6-Sided_Buddha]

In the middle of the night, as the army advances, there is a gurgleing noise coming from the guy that used to shout out the orders to this army of barbaric soldiers. Turning to face their previous leader, the soldiers find their commander with four thin cuts across his throat. Each night the army approached, the same fate would await the leader until one of two things happened: Either the army got the message and ran for the hills, or they appointed a really cute general. Whereupon Sable would sneak into her chambers and negotiate privately. In the event of a failed excursion, Sable's ability to make himself roughly an inch tall, coupled with his ability to hold his breath for over an hour and his ermanoid swimming, would allow him to escape through any pipe or tunnel. Worst case scenario: The nighttime attack fails, Sable ducks into a nearby building, shrinks, and jumps down a drainage drain or sink. Under no circumstances will this tiny sable be flushing himself down any toilets.... they smell like poo gas.

As far as all those people begging for a merciful death goes, "Relax, this'll be over in a few days."

[Vondy]

Your PC is powerful, but even s/he can't stand against an army.

/Major Snippage

Don't be so sure about that...

[Cancer]

Mr. Terrific is more or less indestructible for ... two minutes. Then the power pill wears out. In that form he doesn't have any weapon more powerful than an antitank rocket ... not very useful against an army. His other forms also last a max of two minutes each, which is way too short for a army-class opponent.

He's got a total CvK, so he's Up Shirt Creek in a situation like this.

[Robyn]

Don't be so sure about that...

I established the conditions of the scenario prior to asking the question (WWYCD). If your character doesn't meet those conditions, you're not in a position to answer the question. Move on to the next.

For all the people who answered "run away" . . . I'm guessing you missed the part I put in about "all directions". As in, "surrounded". Splash a bucket of water against a textured wall and watch the rivulets trickle down. Most of the wall is wet, there are a few dry spots where the natural "terrain" parted the flow of the water, but it rejoined with the other droplets later. This is the country that was invaded. Except, when you splash water against a wall, it doesn't normally go back up to get all the dry spots. These soldiers are, and short of some mass teleportation/flight powers, there's no avoiding them; pick a direction and fight them there, or stay put and fight them on your home ground, but the villagers would rather not fight. Period.

[Vondy]

More Seriously:

Ritzdjamar has enougn natural disaster and wrath of God spells that I wouldn't bank against him. He'd probably go for delaying tactics, but he has trashed an army before... on the other hand, he would be deeply annoyed with them, and might, as a result, open a Gate and say "Follow Me!" and then abandon them a hundred miles away knowing full well he could have saved their home.

Claudia would look back over her shoulder, throw down a dagger, and say: "If I stop to kill you I won't have time to orchestrate yet another death defying escape." (There's a reason she has 6d6 Luck).

Cedric faced a situation where a woman begged him to kill her as opposed to leaving her to the mercies of an approaching warband (that had surrounded the village). He killed her. Then he made his stand and survived. Whoops.

Og Bloodthirst (Half OrcBarbarian) wouldn't even look back. Stupid People. One man alone just might make it.

[Vondy]

I established the conditions of the scenario prior to asking the question (WWYCD). If your character doesn't meet those conditions, you're not in a position to answer the question. Move on to the next.

For all the people who answered "run away" . . . I'm guessing you missed the part I put in about "all directions". As in, "surrounded". Splash a bucket of water against a textured wall and watch the rivulets trickle down. Most of the wall is wet, there are a few dry spots where the natural "terrain" parted the flow of the water, but it rejoined with the other droplets later. This is the country that was invaded. Except, when you splash water against a wall, it doesn't normally go back up to get all the dry spots. These soldiers are, and short of some mass teleportation/flight powers, there's no avoiding them; pick a direction and fight them there, or stay put and fight them on your home ground, but the villagers would rather not fight. Period.

First there was some humor in there. Second, I'll answer the question however I like, and if I like. Third, you asked what various people's characters would do and they are answering based on what their characters can do. That's the essence of what would your character do... And fourth, it seems like a lot of people here don't play in games where inescapable death by GM caveat is a foregone conclusion. Probably because its not very much fun. As a result, they are reinterpreting your scenario into something more akin with their play experience.

[Robyn]

First there was some humor in there.

Right, then I apologize for not seeing that. It seemed more of a reprimand on first read.


Second, I'll answer the question however I like, and if I like.

Not so fast. You can answer a question, but as soon as you violate the conditions of the scenario you are no longer answering the question. This thread is for the established scenario. If you want to say what your character would do in a different scenario, either make a new thread or explicitly identify the changes you are making.


Third, you asked what various people's characters would do and they are answering based on what their characters can do. That's the essence of what would your character do...

I didn't ask what all characters would do. Many WWYCD's are at least implicitly limited, by genre for instance; if the question is about a spaceship flying from planet to planet, the barbarian from a fantasy campaign obviously isn't suited to that situation. That "your character" is the primary limitation; answering for characters that you yourself have played, are playing, or would play (but haven't had a chance to yet). The scenario establishes further limits, which is helpful in narrowing it down since otherwise you're just planning out your character's entire life; "You get up in the morning" could be a WWYCD, since it narrows down their life to a specific set of circumstances (time, place, action, etcetera).


And fourth, it seems like a lot of people here don't play in games where inescapable death by GM caveat is a foregone conclusion. Probably because its not very much fun.

As the saying goes, "everyone dies". By old age or something else. I'm not going to violate realism just because having a lot of people die would be sad. Besides, how else is the invading army, to pick a relevant example, going to get its reputation for brutally murdering the innocent civilians in its path? Is there no true evil in the world, just a bunch of foreign nations being demonized by everyone who lives anywhere else? As another saying goes, and I don't like this one, but "they're just NPC's". Making a decision, as GM, that the ordinary (non-powered) people who are surrounded by an overwhelmingly superior force are going to die doesn't really strike me as an unreasonable conclusion. Which must be why it struck them as a reasonable conclusion. Hence their desire to move on past the "Oh shit, I'm going to die!" phase and try to exert some control in what's left of their lives over how they're going to die (slowly and painfully, or quickly and mercifully).

The villagers are probably going to die. They're convinced, anyway. The fate of your PC is another matter. You can't fight the whole army (again, this was established in the original layout of the scenario), but maybe you can hide (with invisibility or camoflauge powers). Can you stand by and watch as the villagers are abused and finally slaughtered, though? Or maybe you can use your powers to hide them, too. Or maybe some scrying will reveal a thin spot in the approaching hordes, and your PC will be powerful enough to "punch through" and make a hole for the villagers to rush through; you still can't fight a whole army, but you're not fighting the whole army then, just a small portion of them. There are options, even if you might not be able to save everyone. And maybe you can; but if the only way you can get there is by changing the conditions of the scenario, how will you deal with the tough decisions when you encounter them for real - that is, in an actual game?


As a result, they are reinterpreting your scenario into something more akin with their play experience.

I'm okay with cosmetic changes, that's one reason I left the terrain alone. Fill in the missing details, tweak some of it so your village is a planet with enemy spaceships converging on it along all the hyperspace routes, whatever. But don't change the critical aspects, or you may as well be in a different scenario.

[Vondy]

Not so fast. You can answer a question, but as soon as you violate the conditions of the scenario you are no longer answering the question. This thread is for the established scenario. If you want to say what your character would do in a different scenario, either make a new thread or explicitly identify the changes you are making.

Or answer the question the way I want to and ignore your pleas for mercy because, like the PCs in your scenario, there's nothing you can do to stop the inevitable pushing of "submit reply."



I didn't ask what all characters would do. Many WWYCD's are at least implicitly limited, by genre for instance; if the question is about a spaceship flying from planet to planet, the barbarian from a fantasy campaign obviously isn't suited to that situation. That "your character" is the primary limitation; answering for characters that you yourself have played, are playing, or would play (but haven't had a chance to yet). The scenario establishes further limits, which is helpful in narrowing it down since otherwise you're just planning out your character's entire life; "You get up in the morning" could be a WWYCD, since it narrows down their life to a specific set of circumstances (time, place, action, etcetera).

And yet, all those people who answered without adhering to your guidelines, answered based on what their fantasy characters would do - and some high fantasy characters are earth shakers. You didn't stipulate: what would your realistic fantasy character do, though I answered that one, too.



As the saying goes, "everyone dies". By old age or something else. I'm not going to violate realism just because having a lot of people die would be sad.

No one forces a gamemaster to create no win situations (and read what I quote from you below). And if he does, he's not a very good Game Master, though he may be a realistic one. And see below for why I hold you created what amounts to a no win scenario that you have since changed.


Besides, how else is the invading army, to pick a relevant example, going to get its reputation for brutally murdering the innocent civilians in its path?

Your situation kind of included the fact that they had that reputation in the first place, didn't it?


Is there no true evil in the world, just a bunch of foreign nations being demonized by everyone who lives anywhere else? As another saying goes, and I don't like this one, but "they're just NPC's". Making a decision, as GM, that the ordinary (non-powered) people who are surrounded by an overwhelmingly superior force are going to die doesn't really strike me as an unreasonable conclusion.

Unreasonable? No. But I didn't say it was unreasonable. I said it wasn't much fun.


Which must be why it struck them as a reasonable conclusion. Hence their desire to move on past the "Oh shit, I'm going to die!" phase and try to exert some control in what's left of their lives over how they're going to die (slowly and painfully, or quickly and mercifully).

What does this have to do with anything I said? I didn't say it was unreasonable for them to draw that conclusion. I didn't say it was wrong for you to have them make that conclusion.


The villagers are probably going to die. They're convinced, anyway. The fate of your PC is another matter. As I said, far from clear from your presentation of the scenario. In fact, it very much looks like a no way out scenario. You can't fight the whole army (again, this was established in the original layout of the scenario), but maybe you can hide (with invisibility or camoflauge powers). Can you stand by and watch as the villagers are abused and finally slaughtered, though?

I guess I don't find this kind of "character sees atrocities" scene as dramatic as you do. *shrug*


Or maybe you can use your powers to hide them, too. Or maybe some scrying will reveal a thin spot in the approaching hordes, and your PC will be powerful enough to "punch through" and make a hole for the villagers to rush through; you still can't fight a whole army, but you're not fighting the whole army then, just a small portion of them. There are options, even if you might not be able to save everyone. And maybe you can; but if the only way you can get there is by changing the conditions of the scenario, how will you deal with the tough decisions when you encounter them for real - that is, in an actual game?

And, in backpeddling, and presenting the situation differently, I guess you missed the part (to quote your words), where you said:


"For all the people who answered "run away" . . . I'm guessing you missed the part I put in about "all directions". As in, "surrounded". Splash a bucket of water against a textured wall and watch the rivulets trickle down. Most of the wall is wet, there are a few dry spots where the natural "terrain" parted the flow of the water, but it rejoined with the other droplets later. This is the country that was invaded. Except, when you splash water against a wall, it doesn't normally go back up to get all the dry spots. These soldiers are, and short of some mass teleportation/flight powers, there's no avoiding them; pick a direction and fight them there, or stay put and fight them on your home ground, but the villagers would rather not fight. Period."

And yet, more recently, you said we could try to run away, but the text I quoted makes it clear you didn't consider that answer acceptable. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!

Maybe you missed the part where you said "Period," "short of mass teleport/flight spell no way of avoiding them," "pick a direction and fight" or "stay put and fight." And against an enemy you have clarified that PCs with a chance of victory are not welcome to participate against.

How you are describing this scenario now, and how you introduced it, and then reinforced in the quoted text above, are two completely different things.


I'm okay with cosmetic changes, that's one reason I left the terrain alone. Fill in the missing details, tweak some of it so your village is a planet with enemy spaceships converging on it along all the hyperspace routes, whatever. But don't change the critical aspects, or you may as well be in a different scenario.

So, no genre apropos earthquake, change weather, meteor swarm, or summon heavenly host spells - because that might change critical elements of the scenario - but go ahead an put the planet on the path of a ludicrously timed and completely out-of-genre incoming space fleet because that won't upset critical elements of the scenario? Above you said no barbarians in science fiction scenarios and now you say go ahead and put a fantasy planets in a science fiction scenarios.

This has become utterly laughable. Asta.

[Robyn]

Or answer the question the way I want to and ignore your pleas for mercy because, like the PCs in your scenario, there's nothing you can do to stop the inevitable pushing of "submit reply."

Mercy? Do you seriously, honestly, for one moment think that you're actually disrupting the integrity of this scenario? As I've pointed out, you're not even participating in the scenario. You're making up a new, slightly different, scenario for the sake of pretending that you've solved the problem. I'd like you to admit that when you do it so the other readers don't get confused about what's going on, but then, I'd like everyone to do that. For lack of them cooperating, I'll settle for issuing occasional corrections, just as was done with, oh, the Faith threads earlier (and probably other WWYCD's even before that).


And yet, all those people who answered without adhering to your guidelines, answered based on what their fantasy characters would do - and some high fantasy characters are earth shakers. You didn't stipulate: what would your realistic fantasy character do, though I answered that one, too.

I don't see "low-powered" as necessarily equivalent to "realistic". If you'd like to maintain the conditions of the scenario by saying that the army was extremely powerful, that wouldn't contradict anything; I hadn't said anything about how powerful the army was absolutely, just relatively.


No one forces a gamemaster to create no win situations

Having normal people occasionally die in the world is not a no-win scenario. In fact, I'd argue that it's not only a right (in the name of realism), it's an obligation - unless the metaphysics of your world seriously deviate from the norm, so that noone ever gets old or sick or injured. There are far-advanced starspanning civilizations that might have that kind of technology, but would it really be available to everyone?


if he does, he's not a very good Game Master, though he may be a realistic one.

I challenge this claim. Why does a GM qualify as "not very good" simply for allowing ordinary people to die in situations where they would not be able to escape this fate on their own?


Your situation kind of included the fact that they had that reputation in the first place, didn't it?

Exactly - so obviously I am willing to say that ordinary people in the game world have died, right?


What does this have to do with anything I said? I didn't say it was unreasonable for them to draw that conclusion. I didn't say it was wrong for you to have them make that conclusion.

Remember your fourth point?


it seems like a lot of people here don't play in games where inescapable death by GM caveat is a foregone conclusion

So, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure most people here do play in games where "inescapable death by GM caveat is a foregone conclusion". In the sense of "conclusions the normal people facing inescapable death have made", which is the context we've been using for this chain of the thread.


I guess I don't find this kind of "character sees atrocities" scene as dramatic as you do. *shrug*

If your character has a Code versus Killing, how do they react to just standing by and watching people die, without even trying to save them? What are the effects on the internal tormentous ruminations of their psyche from knowing that trying to fight the whole army will just mean everyone dies, in the end? Will the character, for instance, turn their back, unable to watch? Or, if they have "Squeamish" as a Disadvantage, will they cleanly execute the villagers before leaving so that they aren't unsettled later by the messy gore?


more recently, you said we could try to run away, but the text I quoted makes it clear you didn't consider that answer acceptable. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!

You can try to run away. The conditions I listed make it apparent which methods won't work - and, more importantly, why. I assumed that most readers would be intelligent enough to figure out, from this, whether or not a new idea would have even a chance of working.

On your own, you might be able to make it: the certain part is that, on their own, the villagers can't.


Maybe you missed the part where you said "Period,"

Pay attention to the context. This was immediately after I stated that "the villagers would rather not fight".


"pick a direction and fight" or "stay put and fight."

Are you utterly devoid of imagination? The options I provided were just that - options - not some predefined list of all the possibilities from which each character's path must be selected. Expansion is welcome for the aspects of a scenario which have not been laid out as the "ground rules". I will say this much: in my game, it is not my responsibility as GM to make sure that solutions are possible and obvious and even easily attainable - it is the players' responsibility to be clever enough to innovate a solution. This is exactly as it was in the campaign I played in for years. And I had one hell of a lot of fun.


How you are describing this scenario now, and how you introduced it, and then reinforced in the quoted text above, are two completely different things.

That depends on one's interpretation of it - but since you apparently don't see "completely rewriting the critical elements of a scenario" as anything more than "re-interpreting it", I don't think I can expect you to understand what I'm saying here. It's possible that I'm wrong, though, so I'll include this paragraph in my reply anyway.


So, no genre apropos earthquake, change weather, meteor swarm, or summon heavenly host spells - because that might change critical elements of the scenario

I didn't say that. If you won't scale the power level of the approaching army to exceed your PC's power level by the appropriate amount, when their exact power level was completely missing from the scenario description, then you have noone but yourself to look at when asking why those spells weren't allowed.


but go ahead an put the planet on the path of a ludicrously timed and completely out-of-genre incoming space fleet because that won't upset critical elements of the scenario? Above you said no barbarians in science fiction scenarios and now you say go ahead and put a fantasy planets in a science fiction scenarios.

Not "the" planet - "a" planet. Moreover, pay attention. I'm not saying even half the things you manage to hear here; context is vitally important. I never said that this planet would be from a fantasy campaign; in fact, I do believe I specifically said to tweak some of the scenario details so your village is a planet, which in the context of the other scifi elements for that tweak, is obviously preserving the "village" and "army" and "surrounded" and "powerful" elements, while changing the words around to transfer the same scenario to a scifi campaign.

[Kristopher]

Is it an vast, barbaric army of WWYCD threads in a forum that had never seen them before?

Nuke 'em from orbit. Only way to be sure.

:rolleyes:

[David Johnston]

Your PC is powerful, but even s/he can't stand against an army. And that's what's coming this way. Its soldiers are renowned for their brutality, and closing in on your location. You had a defense plan, but you don't know what happened to your allies, and there's a depressing number of soldiers headed your way from all directions. The civilians with you, desperate to escape the imminent beating, rape, and murder, want to commit suicide. But they're too cowardly to fall on their own blades, so they ask you to do it for them. To grant them a merciful death, instead of ask them to stand against the invading army in a hopeless battle to the fate worse than death.

WWYCD?

Tanis says, "Guys, guys, you are looking at this all wrong. You can _easily_ get those guys to stab you to death, so why are you asking me to do it? Nobody has to be taken alive here and me stabbing you isn't going to hurt you any less than them stabbing you. And if we can hold them off for just one candlemark, our reinforcements will arrive and most of us might even still be alive to see it! You'd rather be live heroes than dead nithlings, right? Now everyone grab hold of your pointy things and point them at the bad guys. Remember, they're more afraid of death than you are. So you can beat them. Trust me."

[Robyn]

Tanis says, "Guys, guys, you are looking at this all wrong. You can _easily_ get those guys to stab you to death, so why are you asking me to do it? Nobody has to be taken alive here and me stabbing you isn't going to hurt you any less than them stabbing you. And if we can hold them off for just one candlemark, our reinforcements will arrive and most of us might even still be alive to see it! You'd rather be live heroes than dead nithlings, right? Now everyone grab hold of your pointy things and point them at the bad guys. Remember, they're more afraid of death than you are. So you can beat them. Trust me."

It's entirely possible they would go for this; the worst side effect I'd impose on a successful roll to convince them to stand and fight, when they're already convinced that resistance will just make their deaths worse, is giving them the bright idea of making sure that, when they go, they go quickly - by rigging the town to burn (or explode, if they have fireworks on hand) if they're overrun. One person stays behind when the defenders start fighting, ready to light the fuse if everyone else falls.

Of course, if I wanted to be really evil, I would have them implement this plan without telling the hero :eg:

[David Johnston]

It's entirely possible they would go for this; the worst side effect I'd impose on a successful roll to convince them to stand and fight, when they're already convinced that resistance will just make their deaths worse, is giving them the bright idea of making sure that, when they go, they go quickly - by rigging the town to burn (or explode, if they have fireworks on hand) if they're overrun. One person stays behind when the defenders start fighting, ready to light the fuse if everyone else falls.

Of course, if I wanted to be really evil, I would have them implement this plan without telling the hero :eg:

Wouldn't matter. If they were overrun, Tanis would already be trying to use invisibility to bail. Never trust someone who says "trust me".

[Killer Shrike]

MOD HAT ON:

Lets keep things civil, shall we?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Caveat: I'm not big on the whole "Authors Fiat" lack of choces WWYCD thread style that you (Robyn) seem to fond of, but in light of KS's request, 'll answer straight.

of my various main FH characters, assuming the context of the scario is appropriate to their specfic campaign worlds...

Dalton is a brawler and a bounty hunter, not a world beater. He's also not a very nice guy, and a pretty reluctant hero most of the time (The best recent analogy I can think of to compare him to would be a Fantasy version of Jayne from Firefly). He'd curse the townsfolk for thier cowardace & stupidity, and toss whoever was acting as spokesman a vial of black gummy resin and tell him or her that if they really want to suicide, brew up a big batch of tea, disolve the resin in the tea and drink it. He'd then take volunteers to go with him to try and bushwack some outriders from the army and make a dedicated effort to steal some uniforms and slip through the enemy lines. Failing that, he'd turn his coat and look for a chance to slip off somtime in the future.

Caine is my other bastard of a character, similar to Bronn from The Game of Thrones. He wouldn't care a bit. If they were persuasive, he might be willing to off them, but most likely, he'd forego the option and try and figure out a way of avoiding capture by waiting for the enemy to come and taking advantage of the distraction provided by the enemy soliders amusing themselves with the villagers. If he felt indebted to the vlagers for some reason, he might go ahead and mercy kill the women and children.

Grimwald is a bona fide hero. He's also an Einherjar (chosen warrior of the norse pantheon, Heimdall the Guardian in particular) and a galdor-vitki (runemaster), who has spent years living with his own personal Doom (a draugear ate his fate, leaving him accursed and incredibly unlucky). He would refuse to take a hand in sending any souls to Hel by granting a cowards death. His most likely course of action would be to strike the rune of the dead upon the brows of the towns folk, sending ther souls to the afterlife without truly killing them, then raising a cairn over the "corpses". He would then attempt to escape to a safe location in the most inhospitible area nearby... he can survive virtually anywhere. Woe betide any who stand against him... While he fears and dislikes the power it contains, he bears an artifact level magic blade and some pretty awesome magic powers that make him a match for almost anything an opposing army might sen to stop him...this is a hero who has faced and slain one of Ymir's children, who destroyed a wightlord (who was invunerable to mortal weapons) by picking it up and crushing its bones with his barehands.

Cennan is another of my mighty hero types. Half blood Tuatha De Dannan, living Champion of the Goddess Danu... he's a Finn MacCumhal/Cuchulainn level hero, who HAS taken on armies by himself before. Given the obvious terror of the townsfolk, he'd probably opt for the path of peace,lead the townsfolk to the most secluded area they could reach (to best allow the bulk of the army to pass by) and unsling his harp and start playing. It'd be a test of endurance, but once his bardsong is heard, it's almost impossible for the listeners to do anything violent or offensive. This should both assuage the villagers fears, and defuse any of the invaders who come within earshot.
Should someone come who is immune to his song, or brings a greater magic to bear to cancel his actions, then he'd let his heros mantle arise, uneash the fire in his head, take up his invincible spear and give them a fight they'd be unlikely to forget. In his setting, such feared invaders are probably either Norse raiders or Formorians, both of whom have AMPLE cause to fear him... as the annointed defender of the land he has a HUGE reputation as someone not to mess with (The last party of raiders come a-Viking to face him were slaughtered but for the one man he left mamed but alive to bear the tale of his deeds... more would have gotten away had he not shattered the mast of the longship with a single throw of his spear). In no case, however, would he be willing to kill the villagers, as it would defy one of his gesa, as would refusing the fight, should battle be offered. As a last resort he would sing his deathsong, call upon the goddess to guide his hand (and burn his rather 'spensive Divine Favor) and challenge the entire enemy army to single combat.
He might even win.

[Robyn]

He'd then take volunteers to go with him to try and bushwack some outriders from the army and make a dedicated effort to steal some uniforms and slip through the enemy lines.

I'd been wondering how long it would be before someone thought of that. (More recently it seemed more of an "if" than a "when", but still.) Good idea: can't win a fight, can't run away (only towards), but sidestepping the apparent "on encountering the enemy, must initiate battle" paradigm is an excellent answer that utilizes a creative approach to details that weren't limited by the scenario outline :thumbup:

I would Rep you, but I still can't :(

[Curufea]

I feel so left out, I've never been a player in FH - only a GM ;p

[Gawain]

I feel so left out, I've never been a player in FH - only a GM ;p

Me too. :(

[Curufea]

We should start an alternate thread "How do you handle an army that is bearing down on one (or more) of your PCs"
WWYDAGM (What would you do as GM)

[AmadanNaBriona]

I'd been wondering how long it would be before someone thought of that. (More recently it seemed more of an "if" than a "when", but still.) Good idea: can't win a fight, can't run away (only towards), but sidestepping the apparent "on encountering the enemy, must initiate battle" paradigm is an excellent answer that utilizes a creative approach to details that weren't limited by the scenario outline :thumbup:

I would Rep you, but I still can't :(

Dude... I'm Irish. We used to do stuff like this ALL the time :D

[David Johnston]

I'd been wondering how long it would be before someone thought of that.

I considered it, but rejected it. This bunch of bedwetters obviously aren't suitable for that kind of operation.

[BlackSword]

Gregor is an in your face fire sorceror. He would inspire the townsfolk to get weapons, stand up and fight. He would do his best to improve the defense or more perferably rely on a soldier or someone with better training. When the army approached he would (in the words of the GM) do something unholy.

Alishaer would also inspire the townsfolk to take up arms. He is more face first than subtle, but has good knowledge of tactics so his knowledge would likely keep him from striking the army head on. As a Paladin he would refuse to kill anyone no matter how much they begged. Those who refused to fight he would ensure they would be kept safe. Then he would kill anything that threatened his wards.

[TheQuestionMan]

Errandis Menelvagor - sends messengers to the local Nobility with orders to mobilize in the Emperor's Name (He'll pay for it later.)

Scout the Enemy's leaders, eliminate them, then take their place and reap havok and infighting.

Create rumours of a counter attack on there homeland. Those who remained behin have beeen over thrown and they must know march back home. More rumours of another Warrior Race/Nation attacking them from behind. Spread rumours of plague and famine. Undermine the force that bind them together.

Fight a guerilla war. Striking at Officers and Leaders. Poison Supplies, disrupt supply line and when he believes that the Noble have asembled the army Gate them into prepared amush positions.

Then Strike Back

QM

[Outsider]

If we're allowing bad guys to participate, there is this necromancer/demonologist I have...



If his goal here (for whatever reason) is to save as many of the townsfolk as possible :

Option 1)
Cast 'Sleep of the Dead' (a Life Support spell that also puts the recipient into a (timed) death like trance) and "Corpse's Visage" (a spell that makes the recipient appear to be a more or less decayed corpse) on most or all of the townfolk, then infect a few 'volunteers' with a highly contagious magically created disease. Send the carriers out to infect the surrounding army, making sure that the army knows where they came from. ("Everyone is dead back there, please help me!" (projectile vomit some blood) Even if it doesnt kill that many of the soldiers, they will be likely to avoid the town. Once the army has passed on, the people revive and all is well. Their town doesnt even get looted by the army... though it might get burned as a quarantine measure.

2) If there is a bit more time, have the townsfolk dig a mass graves for themselves, then have them bury eachother as I cast 'Sleep of the Dead' and 'Corpse Visage' on them. I bury the last few myself, then use other spells to avoid the army myself. If I think the army will dig up the mass graves, then I sprinkle some actual horribly diseased corpses (bodies provided through a 'volunteer' lottery again, or from other places (the enemy army itself, or its previous victims)) in the upper reaches of the graves. Very doubtful that the diggers would keep digging after the first diseased corpse they find. After the army has passed on, simply dig the townsfolk up.

3) If disease is nothing to be frightened of, as magical cures are easily available, AND the enemy army is likely to dig up any recently turned earth they find, then the whole 'disease' option is out. Faking the death of everyone in town is still an option, but would depend on how the army is likely to deal with corpses it encounters. If it leaves the dead alone, just 'corpsing' the townsfolk is still a good bet. If it is likely to not leave the corpses alone (IE, an orcish army who will eat them, or a fastidious army who would send a detail to burn them) then the 'corpsing' can stil be used, but a rael good hiding place would have to be found... maybe weighting and sinking the bodies into the bottom of a nearby pond or lake. After the army passes, just fish them out.



OR... If doing damage to the surrouinding army is my main goal...

4) Use one of the above ideas as a ruse to get the townsfolk into a helpless state, then sacrifice all of them to gain an immense amount of life essence to power my major spells. Use some of the essence to reanimate the townsfolk's bodies as zombies. Zombies who won't have a problem with fighting the army. The rest of the essence could be used to summon some really nasty critters (undead or infernal) to kill as many of the enemy soldiers as possible. Perhaps some of the juicier townsfolk (young women, children) could be set aside as a 'bribe' to cajole a really nasty greater demon to wipe this army for me...

[Robyn]

If we're allowing bad guys to participate, there is this necromancer/demonologist I have...

Sure :) "Hero" wasn't specified.


have the townsfolk dig a mass graves for themselves, then have them bury eachother as I cast 'Sleep of the Dead' and 'Corpse Visage' on them.

Repped for giving everyone in the scenario exactly what they want :D :thumbup:

[Capt JT Kohonez]

"We must Fight!!!"
"NO!!"
"We must Flee!!"

Beastmaster- The Movie

[Frenchman]

When this happened to Thurg, the Half-Orc Warrior-Priest, he and his companions (both the 9-Months pregnant Mage and the 10-year-old war orphan) stood alone in front of the city gates to confront them. Thurg used his holy powers to project a message from the Goddess (duo-theistic setting, Good Goddess, Evil God) informing the approaching army that they would have to fight and slay a child, a pregnant woman, and a holy man in order to breach the city gates and do unspeakable things to those within, and such an act would doom every last one of them to an eternity of torment in hell.
They left the city alone (as far as we know, since we left only a few hours later to pursue the bigger army marching east)

[Sword-dancer]

If Rondirai couldn`t call the the people to fight and go down honourable, she would meet the army in the open raising her blessed blade to the heavens calling these hyaenas to fight her.

The last time she did raise this blade to heaven she was answered with a storm from her goddess , giving refugees a free passage through a gauntlet of flaming death, a martyr and saint of hergoddess died in this way, fighting unbeatable odds, the enemy army was drowned and cursed(living as a kind of undead in limbo) to the very last man.

Also the whole army nows retribution will be swift, merciless till the last of them is put to death through steel or drawn and halved.

[TheQuestionMan]

Cat Elendil - Were Panther, Ranger, Knight of the Stone, and Champion of Caithness. Send word to the villages, farms, and forts to flee to the Keeps of the Barons.

Assassinate the invading armies Scouts, Wizards, and Officers. Finally their leadership.

When it comes to stealth, weapon mastery, and pure nastiness only a Demon Lord of War can match him. (a 6+ year old character, played every 2 weeks. And my first survivor.)



Cheers

QM

[Thia Halmades]

Ew. Threadcromancy.