The Things I've Learned Playing A Mentalist

[CrosshairCollie]

Inspired by Mr. Bloodstone, I figured I'd start up a tactical thread for possibly the most versatile characters this side of those Cosmic Power Pool guys.

Similar rules; just one entry per post, and preferably don't flood the place. :)

Mind Control works better after a phase or two of Telepathy to find out what buttons your target has that need pushing. It's hard to have enough MC dice to outright dominate a foe, but it's easy to influence them into doing things ineffectively.

[Adventus]

Try to mind control the bricks first they usually have low or nonexistant mental defense.

Unless it is a character a friend and i made up. then you are in trouble. Mental defense of a 30 and an ego of 30 int of 5

[Adventus]

bricks can be your best friend. Hide behind them.

[incrdbil]

The long range mentalist sniper with N-Ray or mind scan is nothing new; the carefully staged ambush of the fast movers who head to your location after you 'accidentally' reveal your location is the bonus.

[Murrkon5]

Your teammates may mock the invisible power of a mentalist. Be strong. Still, it is hard to deny that, during a action-packed battle, the mentalist seems to be just standing there with a "hundred mile stare", blowing spit bubbles.

[Marketeer]

Mind Control and Telepathy work much better between battles (say, to find out where you next need to be) than they do at winning battles.

[Yansuf]

Illusions should be used for misdirection.
Example: an illusion of the wall and door with the door moved 4 ft to the side can really ruin the martial artist's day when he runs through it.

[GoldenAge]

Wear a Judo Gi, screech Asian sounding threats (actually speaking a language isn't necessary, most players wont waste a point or two for an extra language) and jump around like a Martial Artist... If you don't and your opponents find out you're a mentalist they're likely to launch an Alpha salvo against you. They'll disregard all other (possibly more potent) threats to eliminate a guy who can get into their weak little minds.

Survive by cunning, then put them to sleep after they’ve written you off as a kook.

[Iuz the Evil]

Telepathic abilities are neat, but Psychokinetic powers are also advised... to prevent the seasoned mentalist from standing around looking stupid every time he runs afoul of robotic opponents.

[tgrandjean]

Subtlety is the key here. Craft your Mental Control to conform to your opponents Psy lims. Create plausible illusions w/ Mental Illusion. Start with simple probes via Telepathy before you move to deep scans. Remember, an illusion of a bridge over a pit is much more effective than some sort of flying, fire breathing, dragon.

[Hermit]

There will be times mental powers will be unusuable or feel near uselesss, consider some back up in Martial Arts or some gadget when you can.

[Mentor]

Mental Paralysis is the best power one can use on a physical combatant. Even just a phase or two of ineffectiveness can be the difference between victory or defeat for your team. You did remember that you are operating on a team, right?

[Hermit]

Mental Powers are very very scary to some, don't hestitate to remind your foes of just what you can do to them, or reveal about them, when you're intimidating them. Telepathy is only ONE way to get information

[OddHat]

Talk it over with your GM before you try running a mentalist, carefully and at length. Few character types require more careful consultation to fit into a game.

[David Johnston]

There is no surer way to annoy people than just randomly rummaging around out of curiosity.

[GoldenAge]

Excedrin, lots of Excedrin.

[pinecone]

If you play an Illusionist, nothing will get more milage than something real...I once played an Mental illusions dude that carried a concealed pistol...man that guy shot a lot of "Smirk...go ahead..it's not real" martial artists...;)

[TheRavenIs]

If you play a mentalist, don't go for complete control of others, just give good suggestions that play on your target's weakness. That means invisable telepathy is a good power to use first.

[casualplayer]

Costume means target; I'm wearing street clothes.

[CrosshairCollie]

Even if you don't buy them as Visible, Fully Indirect Ego Attacks and some cover are a great way to keep the enemy guessing. :D

[jkwleisemann]

This one's more of a "things I learned playing with a mentalist," but still viable:

Even if you're 'the world's most powerful telepath,' it is not kosher to mind-control every freakin' enemy you encounter, mind-wipe them, and turn them into a hero.

Yes, that happened in one I was involved in. No, I wasn't the person who approved the character. Yes, everybody was living in abject terror of the borderline sociopathic Professor X clone who believed that convenience was enough of a reason to go erasing people's entire personalities and rewriting them. No, the campaign didn't last long enough for one of us to build up the guts to find out if he really did have a telekinetic shield that'd stop a bullet to the back of the brain. Given how it ended instead, I really wish it had.

[CrosshairCollie]

Even if you're 'the world's most powerful telepath,' it is not kosher to mind-control every freakin' enemy you encounter, mind-wipe them, and turn them into a hero.

If I ever wound up in a game where this was happening, I would go so Carlos Mencia right before subduing the guy.

"Why am I doing this? Because you're --" *tap microphone on head* -- "Re-TARDED!!"

[Badger]

Bricks hate you. Even a brick that is your teammates is lliable to snicker if you get walloped. :D

[Hermit]

mentalist vs mentalist combat in comics looks very cool. In game, usually its better to target another archetype

[assault]

Bricks hate you. Even a brick that is your teammates is lliable to snicker if you get walloped. :DYou stole my joke...

And my telepathy means that I know they really mean it!

[Weldun]

Mind Scan is your friend.

Do a quick reconoiter of the ares at the start of a fight, then run into cover or as far away as you can, preferably both. Then fire up the old mind scan, seeing as you KNOW you don't have to cover a lot of area. This works best if you can still communicate with your teammates. If they can call down the mental equivalent of fire-support, they will not begrudge you this tactic.

[incrdbil]

Invisible cumulative Mind Control is the devils tool. But it makes the drive on the highway to hell a lot of fun.

[Murrkon5]

Wear a Judo Gi,...and jump around like a Martial Artist... If you don't and your opponents find out you're a mentalist they're likely to launch an Alpha salvo against you. They'll disregard all other (possibly more potent) threats to eliminate a guy who can get into their weak little minds.


[B]Costume means target; I'm wearing street clothes.

The modern day super campaign equivalent of the Wizard Disguise. In many a fantasy campaign, I've seen wizards who 1) keep well away from robes (forget robes with stars!) and who 2) sling a sword scabbard across their back. All to hopefully avoid the aforementioned "alpha salvo".

[Manic Typist]

Even if you're 'the world's most powerful telepath,' it is not kosher to mind-control every freakin' enemy you encounter, mind-wipe them, and turn them into a hero.

Yes, that happened in one I was involved in. No, I wasn't the person who approved the character. Yes, everybody was living in abject terror of the borderline sociopathic Professor X clone who believed that convenience was enough of a reason to go erasing people's entire personalities and rewriting them. No, the campaign didn't last long enough for one of us to build up the guts to find out if he really did have a telekinetic shield that'd stop a bullet to the back of the brain. Given how it ended instead, I really wish it had.

Sounds like you were traveling with the villain.....

How did it end?

[jkwleisemann]

Sounds like you were traveling with the villain.....

Actually, he was the team leader. It was an XMen-style setting, but the person running the "Prof." gave him all the moral strictures of Aleister Crowley on a bad day.


How did it end?

Mentalists, pure telepathic mentalists, don't hold up well against Sentinel Robot attacks, even if they do also have incredible Luck-related powers. That one should probably be added to the thread's list of Things Learned. :D

Neither does a team of 200-point teen heroes.

Several red smears in the dirt, with survivors scattering to the winds.

[Haerandir]

A good point:

Make sure you have some kind of defense against physical harm.

[GoldenAge]

Who needs walkie-talkies?

A Mind Link between your entire team is the very best way to communicate during combat!

[GoldenAge]

Mental Illusions save money!

A mentalist with Mental Illusions, Mind Link, Tactics and a few reclining chairs is an awesome substitute for a very expensive Danger Room... And this virtual Danger Room travels!

[Barton]

MIND SCAN to count minds in a area, great to avoid that ambush!
Need I say more!!!

[TheRavenIs]

Mental Illusions save money!

A mentalist with Mental Illusions, Mind Link, Tactics and a few reclining chairs is an awesome substitute for a very expensive Danger Room... And this virtual Danger Room travels!

Plus if your mentalist is a gadgeteer or you have one on the team then you can make a device that allows the Mentalist to use it on enemies as well.

[The Maxx]

Mental Illusions + the Images power equals a nasty degree of versatility when your illusions are seen by everybody!:eg:

[Weldun]

EGO drain. Need I say more?

[jkwleisemann]

Don't get caught up in power names.

Again, SFX > Mechanics/Name of a Power.

A 25-pt Normal Summon with plenty of multipliers for being able to call lots of people and the Slavishly Loyal advantage = a Very Thick Human Shield.

Some might argue that AoE Mind Control would be the way to build that, but I found it far more reasonable to just use a Summon.

As a note, yes, that was on a villain.

[CrosshairCollie]

EGO drain. Need I say more?

Yes.

EGO *Transfer*. ;)

[Weldun]

Yes.

EGO *Transfer*. ;)Of course!:idjit:

[incrdbil]

Mental Illusions save money!

A mentalist with Mental Illusions, Mind Link, Tactics and a few reclining chairs is an awesome substitute for a very expensive Danger Room... And this virtual Danger Room travels!

It also makes for a cheap date.

Why yes, that was a lovely dinner at the 5 star restaurant. ::Tosses TV dinner::

[incrdbil]

Telepathy ususally isn't admissable in court. Telepathy done anyway..followed up by a later anonymous phone call to the police giving the location of crucial evidence is a different matter and a great way to kill time off duty.

[incrdbil]

Get a lawyer. The RIAA will sue you for having the likely ability to illegally broadcast music. :)

[Manic Typist]

It also makes for a cheap date.

Why yes, that was a lovely dinner at the 5 star restaurant. ::Tosses TV dinner::


Getting dangerously close to taboo areas there...

I find mentalists both appealing and horrifying. A dangerous line they walk between fighting for good and raping people's minds.

[FenrisUlf]

Actually, he was the team leader. It was an XMen-style setting, but the person running the "Prof." gave him all the moral strictures of Aleister Crowley on a bad day.



:angst: :fear:

Now that sounds nasty. How long did he live before someone ganked him?

[Cold Steel]

ganked?

[CrosshairCollie]

ganked? :confused:

Killed.

[Weldun]

Actually, he was the team leader. It was an XMen-style setting, but the person running the "Prof." gave him all the moral strictures of Aleister Crowley on a bad day.
Now that sounds nasty. How long did he live before someone ganked him?Actually, it sounds like "Young Heroes in Love."

Rhetorical Question: When will I learn to stay away from DC?

[Jomster]

When the team comes up against a really tough enemy mentalist, YOU get instant promotion to "front line troop" and have to go in and deal with them while your team mates try not to smile as the enemy's "extreme mental onslaught" powers are unleashed on your head!

[jkwleisemann]

:angst: :fear:

Now that sounds nasty. How long did he live before someone ganked him?

Right up until the Sentinels demonstrated that they were immune to mental powers.

Y'see, that's the funny thing about all the characters being honestly convined that He Knew Better Than They Did, something he reinforced at every point, without having to use his mental powers to do it. Those niggling little doubts were always countered by the fact that he was far more experienced and really did have the best interests of the long-term situation in mind....

Besides? Is it *really* that bad to mind-wipe and re-program the Bad Guys? Really?

(Here's a hint - the answer is YES!)

[jkwleisemann]

Actually, it sounds like "Young Heroes in Love."

Is this a reference I should recognize?


Rhetorical Question: When will I learn to stay away from DC?

Never. Just like the rest of us. :rolleyes:

[Silbeg]

Yes.

EGO *Transfer*. ;)

Make that BOECV, Ranged EGO Transfer!
A mere 37 points a die... but worth it?

Only 25 points per d6 on the ranged, BOECV Ego Drain...

Wait...

I have it...

for a mere 37/56 points per d6...

Ego Drain/Transfer, AE Selective Radius, Ranged, BOECV

Then, you can wipe the egos of masses of people, all at once!

:eg: Moo-ha-ha-ha

[AmadanNaBriona]

ganked? :confused:
Funny, I've always used "ganked" to mean "stolen" or "taken"

as in "I ganked that agents Antimatter grenade"

[Hermit]

However tempting, using your powers to aquire a harem of super models is WRONG!

[bigdamnhero]

Remember, an illusion of a bridge over a pit is much more effective than some sort of flying, fire breathing, dragon.
As a corollary to the above: Your illusions will be more effective if you can combine them with reality in some way.

For example, your illusion of a wall of fire will be more convincing if you cast it over a real (but small) fire. Teamwork (the action, not the skill) can also be your best friend. The most effective image/illusion I ever cast actually was of a fire-breathing dragon, but only after Telepathy had revealed that the orcs in question lived in fear of a dragon in the mountains; and reinforced by the fire-mage throwing a fireball so that it seemed to come out of the dragon’s mouth. Result: a full rout. :celebrate

[bigdamnhero]

Always, always, ALWAYS have a Plan B.

Yes, this could apply to just about any archetype. But the all-or-nothing nature of many mental powers makes it more critical for mentalists IMO. What are you going to do if your opponent shrugs off your EGO Attack, sees through your Illusion, etc?

[Weldun]

Three words.
MENTAL. MARTIAL. ARTS.

Not maneuvers per se, but some combat skill levels in EGO combat will help alot, especially if you can convince you GM that using 2 lvls for +3 effect/damage isn't unbalancing when you compare relative base costs.

That being said, I'm now sorely tempted to develop a set of maneuvers that can only be apllied to creatures created by Mental Illusions...

[Cold Steel]

However tempting, using your powers to aquire a harem of super models is WRONG!

Now you tell me.:eg:

[TheRavenIs]

You really want people to be mad at you, make a Killing Attack that effect's EGO, and does body. They will so dislike your C.

[Weldun]

Indirect Mental powers can be fun. Make the bad guys with mental awareness think that the team's Brick is also a Mentalist.

To truly appreciate this, also buy a lot of perception levels for smell, along with targeting. That way, you'll know EXACTLY which ones just doubled the weight of their pants. :eg:

[DEFCON Clown]

ganked?
I've always thought it meant killed horribly. Like getting pwnd or ownd.

[Weldun]

I've always thought it meant killed horribly. Like getting pwnd or ownd.I thought that was "Gacked.":think:

[bigdamnhero]

I always thought it meant thread derailment.







:D Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Enforcer84]

My teammates secret identities, most villains secret identities, blackmail fodder for every VIP I met...wait, that isnt' what you meant was it?

[Hermit]

There is a vast gap between the results you'll see in the comics done easily, and what your character will be able to do at most game levels

[GoldenAge]

Your special gift will force people to do things that they wouldn't normally do!


...Like your GM adding Mental Defense to all of his favorite villains and creating a host of mental combatants that will tear through your teammates like a Twinkie-eating, fat bellied, ninja prancing across rice paper... while waiting to get to you!

Note: If a mentalist joins your team... Make a helmet out of a colander and tin foil... It's your only hope!

[Foxiekins]

They may call it a smart bullet, but your mind control won't do squat...

[Lucius]

People are not only incredibly gullible, they have incredibly short memories. You can preach and prophesy something for months, then drop it and go on to some other wonky obsession, and the flock will never bring up the fact your prophesies never came to pass, or ask why you never did something you said you'd do.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary says "You're doing it again, Lucius. Look again. It's 'Mentalist' not 'FUNDAmentalist'"

[incrdbil]

There is a vast gap between the results you'll see in the comics done easily, and what your character will be able to do at most game levels

That is a result of things you learn GM'ing for a mentalist :)

And a nice thread in itself......

[TheRavenIs]

If you are playing a mentalist, remember to hide as much as possiable, but do so where you can see the battlefield.

Yes that means being the mentalist sniper, it's not always wrong to do that.

[OddHat]

5thER Breakout Rolls make Mind Control weaker than in previous versions of Hero unless your character is very lucky, subtle or powerful. Ask your GM how he's applying Breakout rolls before you start throwing your mental weight around.

[Weldun]

5thER Breakout Rolls make Mind Control weaker than in previous versions of Hero unless your character is very lucky, subtle or powerful. Ask your GM how he's applying Breakout rolls before you start throwing your mental weight around.Another reason for EGO drain.

Another option is to buy negative skill levels (10 point levels, as they are the only ones that can affect raw characteristic rolls) with invisible effects, ranged, BOECV and the limitation "only to reduce breakout roll (-2)". You could possibly link them to your Mind Control, or even better, link all your mental powers to this one.

[Hermit]

Ask the GM just what Alien class of minds covers before you take it, it may not be necessary for what you wanted

[OddHat]

Another reason for EGO drain.

Another option is to buy negative skill levels (10 point levels, as they are the only ones that can affect raw characteristic rolls) with invisible effects, ranged, BOECV and the limitation "only to reduce breakout roll (-2)". You could possibly link them to your Mind Control, or even better, link all your mental powers to this one.

As a GM, I'd let the character buy extra dice with "Only to overcome breakout rolls" if I was going to allow something like that at all, but to each his own.

[Foxiekins]

5thER Breakout Rolls make Mind Control weaker than in previous versions of Hero unless your character is very lucky, subtle or powerful. Ask your GM how he's applying Breakout rolls before you start throwing your mental weight around.

I tried to introduce a friend and his brother to the Hero System, and he wound up making a 100 points VPP to simulate a Magician... I tried to tell him it was leaving him unbalanced in other areas, but he wouldn't listen... Meanwhile, his brother went for Powered Armor with a Multipower... I put them against each other, and the VPP wound up being used for a Mind Control... His brother broke free with his first Breakout Roll, and KOed him so thoroughly it was pathetic...

[Weldun]

As a GM, I'd let the character buy extra dice with "Only to overcome breakout rolls" if I was going to allow something like that at all, but to each his own.And if you are allowed to use the set effect rule (pg 104 5ER), it works out cheaper, although the limitation is more of a -½ for that.

Aim for what you need, anything else is gravy.

Just because you can make the target believe that they're in another part of the world, it doesn't mean you should. If you aim for something easier, but get enough to do a lot more, their chances of breaking out are significantly lessened. The same goes for any other mental power. I still remember the old Adventurer's Club article, "Molding Minds for Fun and Profit.";)

[BlackSword]

Botching when you shoot fire out of your hands is embarrassing at worst, botching when you are messing around in someone's mind is bad at best

Those powers aren't just for combat (also known as, gee BS if you had used your retrocognition we could have solved this mystery 3 hours ago)

[FenrisUlf]

Ask the GM just what Alien class of minds covers before you take it, it may not be necessary for what you wanted

Just what do you use it to cover? To me, it should be the really alien aliens, like the Lemurians or the Elder Worm. I allow the Atlanteans and Empyrenas to pass as 'Human Class of Mind', for example.

[Hermit]

Just what do you use it to cover? To me, it should be the really alien aliens, like the Lemurians or the Elder Worm. I allow the Atlanteans and Empyrenas to pass as 'Human Class of Mind', for example.

That's sort of my point. Different GMs may have different definitions and it is best to find out what his judgement call on a category is before you take it.

[Weldun]

Be Impressive.

A high PREsence will make your Mind Controlling days a lot easier, as you can follow a PREsence attack with any attempt to use Mind Control.

Here's how it works. As you move up the effects of the chart of the PREsence attack table, you will see mention of how seriously a target will take your suggested course of action. You may also notice that these correspond inversely to the Mind Control chart. If you achieve the +30 level on your PRE attack, the target is listed as "will nearly always follow commands" and that nearly isn't quite enough. So, a simple Mind Control with a greater than EGO result would be all that is needed to get the target to "perform actions he's inclined to do anyway." The +20 effect on PRE attacks is "will possibly do as the attacker commands" which correlates to +10 on Mind Control, "perform actions he wouldn't mind doing anyway." The +10 level similarly corresponds with "may comply with orders and requests if they seem worthwhile to him" and "perform actions he is normally against doing."

Just remember, that the target gets a bonus in both cases if your order contradicts the target's Psychological Limitations.

[Egyptoid]

Force Wall is your friend. Take a phase to rest and recover behind a nice shield.

[bigdamnhero]

Force Wall is your friend. Take a phase to rest and recover behind a nice shield.
In a pinch, concrete or stone walls work too. ;)

[CrosshairCollie]

In a pinch, concrete or stone walls work too. ;)

As do bricks with the durability, stability, and intelligence of concrete or stone walls. :)

[TheRavenIs]

*I always say, be creative but in a way that is believable.

If you use Mental Illusion, make it as subtle as you can, that way the level needed to make the target think it is real is lowered.

[jkwleisemann]

If your group is fighting a mega-villain with meager mental defenses, get in their early and do your thing before he/she wipes the floor with the rest of the party.

Take a gander at Gravitar, for example. She rates mega-villain... but the only defense she has against mental attacks is a high Ego. If your mentalist can beat ECV 8 routinely, they have her on a silver platter, really.

But if the other members of the party have already been hurled around like so many rag-dolls by the Mistress of All Gravity by the time you start, they are justified in taking it out on you afterwards.

[CBikle]

If your group is fighting a mega-villain with meager mental defenses, get in their early and do your thing before he/she wipes the floor with the rest of the party.

Take a gander at Gravitar, for example. She rates mega-villain... but the only defense she has against mental attacks is a high Ego. If your mentalist can beat ECV 8 routinely, they have her on a silver platter, really.

But if the other members of the party have already been hurled around like so many rag-dolls by the Mistress of All Gravity by the time you start, they are justified in taking it out on you afterwards.

Gravitar is one of the few exceptions to the rule; most published Champions master-villains tend to have enough boatloads of mental defense (in addition to a high ego) to make any serious mental shennanigans, impossible.

Gravitar is really just intended for big brawls, not so much a complicated behind-the-scenes type master-villain, so I'd figure that most GMs would be inclined to let the mental stuff play out, whreas they wouldn't risk it with a villain that they wanted to see make it beyond the first act.

[TheRavenIs]

If you have an attack that does body----be very careful when you use it.

Your team might get worried that they might get mindfried someday.

[Karma]

Try lower level effects first 'Hit the Brick, not me' before high level ones 'Attack your friends'. Even with Cumulative your victim is more than likely to pummel you into paste before you reach high levels.

and just 1 more

People don't appreciate being Mind Controlled/Mind Read/Mental Illusioned, etc. Either use 'undetectable' effects or get the heck away before they make their breakout rolls.