Adice for building a Gadgeteer please.

[Insaniac99]

I'm building a gadgeteer for a new player who I don't want to have a VPP (or atleast not a big one, if I have points let over I might give a small onee) however I am getting befuddled on how to apprpriately model the effect I want. let me do some 'splaining

The way I envision it is the character has a lab with a bunch of different gadgets (multi-power or VPP), but he can only choose to take a few (3-4) at a time, if he wants to get different gadgets he has to fly all the way back to the base to switch out, obviously that is extremely inconvienent.

now the only thing I can come up with is a 180-240 point multipower with the limitation OAF for the gadgets(-1) and the closest I can find to do the lim of changing in lab is the "can only change in lab (-1/2)" designed for VPPs that, to me, doesn't seem a right level of a disadvantage for it, after all a hero who wanted to go for effectiveness over character concept build can easily get tons more powers and gadgets just by doing the standard 60 point MP without any lims. so what would an appropriate level be that would also be accepted in most campaigns? or is there a better way of modeling it without using a VPP? (again I really don't want to have the character's main set of powers be a VPP, I'd have to hold his hand while he learns the rules, and once he learns them I have to constantly make sure he doesn't abuse them since I don't know what type of gamer he is yet.) Or is there just something I'm missing and -1/2 is actually an apropriate lim for that disadvantage?

thanks again, both for the help you guys have given me in the past, and in advance for this question.

ADDITIONAL: in case I didn't make it clear, I also envision the character only being able to use one weapon at a time, as he has to use his hands for each one, whether to hold the sonic blaster or pull the pin in a concussion grenade or similiar. so it fuctions almost exactly like a regular multi-power, except the character is limited in the number of options he takes each time he heads out

[jkwleisemann]

Hmm....

Well, here's a possibility. 60 points MP (assuming this active point limit), with a number of slots for it. However, apply a... :think: -1, I'd call it, limitation to the multipower itself, "Can Only Select a Limited Number of Slots at a Time." -1 for the 3-4 you're looking for, maybe -1/2 instead, not quite sure - it'd depend on how many he could pick out compared to how many he had available. General rule of thumb that I'd use:

4/5's of his available powers can be chosen: -0
3/4's of his available powers: -1/4
2/3's of his available powers: -1/2
1/2 of his available powers: -1
1/3 of his available powers: -1 1/2
1/4 of his available powers: -2Basing that 'table' off the value of a Limited Limitation, inverting the basic chart.

On the other hand... personally, and this is only my perspective on things, I'm not sure why you're choosing to limit him to 3-4 options, necessarily. It could well be a matter of campaign flavor, or you just want to get him used to what limitations actually are like... I'm sure you've got perfectly good reasons for it.

But, particularly looking at a character whose selections are all small, handheld options, he could theoretically be strapped down with dozens of weapons at a time - two or three different types of blasters, a bandolier with three different types of grenades, etc.

Like I said - that last bit is just my own inner GM coming to the foreground and pondering where the problem has come from. YMMV on the whole thing, particularly that part.

[OddHat]

All kinds of ways to do it, but the simplest really is a VPP, May Only Change In Lab. That is also the single type of VPP least likely to confuse a player or be abused. The super scientist who runs back to his lab to design and build a weapon to defeat Enemy X is a classic comic book trope.

However, you're the GM. You can always give him the Multipower and allow a -1 for the Only Changed in Lab limit.

The VPP approach will also take fewer Active Points than the MP, though it will probably cost a similar number of real points.

[TheTemplar]

Well, personally I think "Can Only Change VPP Powers At Lab" as a -1/2 lim IS an appropriate amount... for a VPP. Simply because VPP's are so versatile that the number of options you'd have available at your lab is tremendous. It's just not as limiting on a VPP as it is on a Multipower. A VPP probably would be the simplest way to do this, and just make a pre-made list of all the powers the player has available & those are the powers he can choose from. If you keep the VPP pool amount low, then it would very effectively limit both the AP available in his powers as well as the total RC of powers he could take with him. That said, I can CERTAINLY understand your reservations about giving a brand new player a VPP. It's like giving a brand new Corvette to a 16 yr old. :)

My other suggestion, if you don't want to go the VPP route, would be a multipower with several slots (6-10) and put custom limitations on the reserve and all slots like "Can Only Use X Number Of Slots At A Time" where X is the number of gadgets you want him to have on his person and "Can Only Switch Out Useable Slots At Lab." As to value, I'd say the first depends on how many/few slots you want him to be able to use per adventure compared to the number he has total. If less than 1/3rd of his total slots are available to him then I'd say it's probably a -1 to -1 1/2. If about 1/2 or less are available, I'd say -1/2 to -1. As to the Switch Out Useable Slots At Lab lim, that's up to you. I'd probably still rule it -1/2, but if you prefer -1 I think that's reasonable.

[Publius]

I know this is kinda out there, but what about Multiform? Specifically a multiform that can only be changed in the lab (for whatever honking negative that would be). You would be sort of limited for the powers, BUT if you built a group of devices around a similar real cost point base (like the "big offensive weapon" at 60 Real points), the GM might allow some limited switching to take place (for the price of a power advantage or adder maybe?)

Gadget Platform Multiform (350 Character Points in the most expensive form) (x8 Number Of Forms) (85 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, -1 1/2), Conditional Power Power does not work in Very Common Circumstances i.e.Not-being in lab (-1). Real Cost: 24 points

If you increased that to 128 forms, more than enough if the Gm allows you to define them along the way, it would only be 30 points.

[Insaniac99]

Thanks for the replies! I ended up giving the character a 16 slot multi-power that has a -2 lim based on jkwleisemann's sugestion (he can only choose 4 till he gets to the lab), I'm going run the character for a few sessions and will revise him if I find it is unbalanced.

again thank you all for your help!

as a side note I'm really happy because I have a years worth of campaign ideas I get to try out (once we do a few simple scenarios to get everyone used to the system and tone of the campaign) and it looks like this will be the biggest group I've ever had (face to face anyway) with somewhere around 5-7 players.

[gojira]

I'm building a gadgeteer for a new player who I don't want to have a VPP (or atleast not a big one, if I have points let over I might give a small onee) however I am getting befuddled on how to apprpriately model the effect I want.

I'm confused too. Did something happen to gadget pools? Or does that count as a VPP for the purpose of this question?

[Insaniac99]

I'm confused too. Did something happen to gadget pools? Or does that count as a VPP for the purpose of this question?

yeah that counts as a VPP, this new player is a fast learner though, after we play for a month (tis about 5 gaming sessions or so for us) I'm planning on allowing players to change their characters if they know enough fo the system and he might get to have a small VPP

[jkwleisemann]

Thanks for the replies! I ended up giving the character a 16 slot multi-power that has a -2 lim based on jkwleisemann's sugestion (he can only choose 4 till he gets to the lab), I'm going run the character for a few sessions and will revise him if I find it is unbalanced.

again thank you all for your help!

You're welcome - glad I managed to help. :)

[TheTemplar]

as a side note I'm really happy because I have a years worth of campaign ideas I get to try out (once we do a few simple scenarios to get everyone used to the system and tone of the campaign) and it looks like this will be the biggest group I've ever had (face to face anyway) with somewhere around 5-7 players.

Awesome! Seeing other people enjoy your ideas is a wonderfully satifsying high. Keep us posted on the campaign progess, will ya? I love reading campaign write-ups.

[Insaniac99]

Awesome! Seeing other people enjoy your ideas is a wonderfully satifsying high. Keep us posted on the campaign progess, will ya? I love reading campaign write-ups.

Sure! I'll start a thread later (watch for it because I'll probably start it in a week, after our first real session) that I'll update after every game with a story, what went right, what went wrong. I expect to have to re-write the characters though, I haven't had to put a DC cap before and I just built all the characters around 60 APs. thing is I'm used to PLaying the characters and wanting to eek out every bit of effectiveness out of the characters so I may have to rewrite them to be a bit more equal to the official write ups (I want to run some of the official campaigns like Sharper than a serpants tooth too) I'm especially worrried about Madra the mentalist with a 12ECV, 17 MD (total, so it is actually average I think) and 12d6 Telepathy, 12d6Mind control and so forth. we'll see how she plays out though.