House of the Flying Daggers

[azato]

I just saw the movie a couple weeks ago (I know - where have I been). All I can say is "WOW".

Has anybody attempted writeups on these characters/MA Style?

[Captain Obvious]

I just saw it last week myself. That's a nasty knife-throwing multipower they have there.

[azato]

While they never stated the they could not wear armor, it did appear that none of the members wore anything more than heavy cloth armor. I am sure there is a limitation out there but what would it be?

Power will not work if chacter is wearing armour other than cloth

[Captain Obvious]

I'd have to watch again to be sure, but didn't that guy who infiltrated the local police wear armor? If not, then it would appear that no one wore armor, and it is a campaign standard, rather than a limitation on the Flying Daggers.

[azato]

I'd have to watch again to be sure, but didn't that guy who infiltrated the local police wear armor? If not, then it would appear that no one wore armor, and it is a campaign standard, rather than a limitation on the Flying Daggers.

I don't remember exactly. I don't think he wore armor. If he did, was he wearing armor when the threw the daggers. Actually, at the end he didn't. The question is, when he was in the woods shadowing the two, was he wearing armor then.

Here is my thinking:
1. It is WAY unrealistic to have little 5in daggers taking out people in plate mail.:angst:

2. It was WAY cool seeing them do their stuff. All the lady needed was an exposed neck - or for that matter a long piece of silk!:hail:

3. I am thinking of a Sword and Sorcery campaign where magic is somewhat limited. I thought about having a crazy-cool martial artists that had phenominal powers BUT could not use anything higher than a certain armor type to perform them.

Has anybody tried to create a class to replicate a cool-Kung Fu fighter?

[Captain Obvious]

1. It is WAY unrealistic to have little 5in daggers taking out people in plate mail.:angst:


But not to have the daggers swoop around like boomerangs? If you can hit someone with something that curves like that, you can hit a eye slit or an exposed armpit (hard to armor there).

The best way to do something like this IMO, is to just make it a campaign standard that no one wears armor.

Side note: As long as we're talking about unrealistic, it did kind of irk me that Zhang Ziyi's character was hit with a dagger, then lay there as if she was dead long enough to be buried in snow, and then she staggers to her feet. The swordfight lasting that long seemed epic, the not-being-dead after that long seemed cheesy.

[Curufea]

It ties in with the main characters having more Qi than regular folk (hence their ability to manipulate daggers in flight or sense enemies around them).
I regard the Wu Shu / Wire Fu concept of Qi (Chi) as - if you have more, you basically have more character points :)

In Xhang's case - it could even be extra body bought with invisible power effect :)

[azato]

Side note: As long as we're talking about unrealistic, it did kind of irk me that Zhang Ziyi's character was hit with a dagger, then lay there as if she was dead long enough to be buried in snow, and then she staggers to her feet. The swordfight lasting that long seemed epic, the not-being-dead after that long seemed cheesy.


I agree that it was cheesy, but the ending showdown was EXCELLENT. I mean the one where "you kill him, I kill you". I was stunned. I had to think it through after i saw it (as in why the two did what they did).

[UltraRob]

Yeah, the inability of daggers and darts to do much according to the HERO rules for armour always bugged me. Characters in WuXia stories just don't wear much armour (http://www.geocities.com/rpatersonca/NoArmour.html) and darts (http://www.geocities.com/rpatersonca/Darts.html) get a little tricky too.

Rob

[Captain Obvious]

That's what Find Weakness is for. No one in China went around covered head to toe in form-fitting plates of metal, so just halving the DEF of even a heavily armored foe will make a dagger a viable weapon. A couple more successful Find Weakness rolls pretty much eliminate it.

But those house rules work pretty well too. Have you worked up the official cost of a dart built by those standards?

[Susano]

The last DH -- issue 37, had some martial arts stuff that includes some dagger throing tricks. Oh, and Ninja Hero for 5th Edition has a lot of wuxia content.

[azato]

The last DH -- issue 37, had some martial arts stuff that includes some dagger throing tricks. Oh, and Ninja Hero for 5th Edition has a lot of wuxia content.

I may have to check that out. The local game store may have had NH heavily discounted today but I ran my max on everything else. Crazy deals man!

I am rather excited. I picked up:

Dark Champions
Champions Universe (I thought it was the CHampions book)
Star Hero
Terran Emire
Ultimate Mentalist
Grimoire I
Spacer's Toolkit
Terran Empire

So I will have plenty of reading

Some thoughts on the Daggers ---

It seems to me that they just had an ENORMOUS amount of points in PSL's vs Hit locations as well as range modifiers as well as normal CSL's. Looking through Dark Champions they allow for some interesting hit locations to target - eyes, throat, etc. I am wondering if that is all there is to it?

[Susano]

It seems to me that they just had an ENORMOUS amount of points in PSL's vs Hit locations as well as range modifiers as well as normal CSL's. Looking through Dark Champions they allow for some interesting hit locations to target - eyes, throat, etc. I am wondering if that is all there is to it?

Mostly. There was also that handy Naked Advantage of "No Range Modifier" on any dogger HKA they threw. (There may also have been Extended Range being used there as well.)

[Thia Halmades]

Wait - HTF did he get a copy of Ultimate Mentalist? How old is that thing, 4th Ed? CURSES!

I need that bewk. I know Steve is updating it, but... yeargh. And I haven't seen HoFD yet either - nor have I seen HERO. But I did just see Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence & the first 20 or so episodes of Stand Alone Complex. Great stuff.

[Curufea]

I didn't like it as much as the movie, Hero. Hero was more stylish and with a more conclusive plot. Flying Daggers is a bit like Armour of God - the main subject of the movie (from its title) ends up being forgotten about by the end.

If the movie isn't about the House - why show troops about to attack it? If you show the troops, shouldn't you resolve at least whether they are likely to win or lose?

[azato]

I didn't like it as much as the movie, Hero. Hero was more stylish and with a more conclusive plot. Flying Daggers is a bit like Armour of God - the main subject of the movie (from its title) ends up being forgotten about by the end.

If the movie isn't about the House - why show troops about to attack it? If you show the troops, shouldn't you resolve at least whether they are likely to win or lose?

I liked this movie better than Hero, at least in regards to the action. The lake scene was too much for me in Hero and the bamboo forest was almost too much for me in House.

In regards to resolution, I think leaving it the way he did was best. My take is that the battle ended the same way the battle finished between the two "DUDES" (I forget their name).

I think the idea of using people, and people using people through letting them use you was very interesting.

I also love redemption stories - very powerful. The best being Boromir in TLOTR.

[Wolfe-Chan]

But not to have the daggers swoop around like boomerangs? If you can hit someone with something that curves like that, you can hit a eye slit or an exposed armpit (hard to armor there).

The best way to do something like this IMO, is to just make it a campaign standard that no one wears armor.

Side note: As long as we're talking about unrealistic, it did kind of irk me that Zhang Ziyi's character was hit with a dagger, then lay there as if she was dead long enough to be buried in snow, and then she staggers to her feet. The swordfight lasting that long seemed epic, the not-being-dead after that long seemed cheesy.

But is that not what melodrama is all about?

[Markdoc]

But is that not what melodrama is all about?

Yeah, but when the whole audience snickers and people can be heard whispering to each other "I'm not dead yet! Actually, I'm starting to feel better already" then that's a hint that you might have overplayed it.

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

As for the daggers themselves, for me that's clearly a "damn near magical dagger" multipower, built around RKA/HKA.

The fact that a perfectly normal dagger in the hands of a perfectly normal person does 1/2d6 in no way means a butt-kickin' dagger expert can't do 2d6 (with the real weapon limitation on it, so he can't carve his way through a castle wall) with a dagger.

I have no problem with "I can cast mystical bolts that do 2d6 fire damage", so why should I have a problem with "I can cast mystical daggers that do 2d6 sharp, pointy damage"? Assuming they pay for them with points, of course.

If you allow that, then all the problem with levels, armour, etc disappear. It also explains why high level martial artists don't wear "real" armour: it doesn't stack with their combat luck, and offers damn-all protection against a 2d6 RKA to the head anyway, so it's not worth taking a hit on DCV.

cheers, Mark