Lock Picks

[mayapuppies]

Ok I know I don't have to technically do this but I want to. ;)

How would I write-up a set of lockpicks? They don't give any bonuses to the character, they simply enable him to utilize the lockpicking skill without any negative modifiers.

[Rapier]

PSLs. Penalty Skill Levels, only to offset Penalties for not having the appropriate tools. While they are OAF, you either have to wave the cost or just give them a -0 OAF.

[mayapuppies]

Like so?

Average Lockpicks: Penalty Skill Levels: +5 vs. penalties for not using lockpicks with Lockpicking (OAF, -1)

[Rapier]

Like so?

Pretty much. However, strictly you can't apply Limitations to levels unless they cost 5 pts. So you either wave the restriction or change the limitation to -0.

[mayapuppies]

Ah, ok, that would explain why the option wasn't available in Hero Designer

[ghost-angel]

3pt Penalty Skill Levels may have Limitations applied to them, as they are the equivelant of 5pt Skill Levels. 5ER p66; FREd p46.

[Rapier]

3pt Penalty Skill Levels may have Limitations applied to them, as they are the equivelant of 5pt Skill Levels. 5ER p66; FREd p46.

Oh!

I stand corrected. But the problem is still the same, the PSL he's talking about are the 1.5 pt iirc.

This is what I get for relying on HD all the time! :)

[ghost-angel]

That just means he should use the 3pt PSLs:

Lock Picks: +5 vs Not Having The Lockpicking Skills (techincally, one needs to know what to do with them so this doesn't seem right to me); OAF (15 AP, 7 RP).

I would actually do this:
Lockpicks Penalty Skill Levels: +5 vs. Difficult Lock Penalties with All Attacks (15 Active Points); OAF (-1) [7 Real Points]

this only works if there are penalties based on lock difficulty. I left "All Attacks" just so you know what I chose in Hero Designer, I'd chance the wording "All Locks" to make it look consistant.

[Curufea]

I'd clarify it as "all locks that require keys" - on the off chance that someone invents a combination lock and you have players that are rules lawyers :)

[mayapuppies]

That just means he should use the 3pt PSLs:

Lock Picks: +5 vs Not Having The Lockpicking Skills (techincally, one needs to know what to do with them so this doesn't seem right to me); OAF (15 AP, 7 RP).

I would actually do this:
Lockpicks Penalty Skill Levels: +5 vs. Difficult Lock Penalties with All Attacks (15 Active Points); OAF (-1) [7 Real Points]

this only works if there are penalties based on lock difficulty. I left "All Attacks" just so you know what I chose in Hero Designer, I'd chance the wording "All Locks" to make it look consistant.
My only problem with this, is that it technically gives the lockpicker a bonus rather than merely allowing them to pick locks. In my game if the character doesn't have this particular skill then he can't utilize the tools effectively.

[mayapuppies]

I'd clarify it as "all locks that require keys" - on the off chance that someone invents a combination lock and you have players that are rules lawyers :)
hehe, good point. It won't be a problem in this game as nearly all of the players have no experience with HERO system and 1/3 have no experience with RPG's at all. But always good to CYA.

[Hugh Neilson]

My only problem with this, is that it technically gives the lockpicker a bonus rather than merely allowing them to pick locks. In my game if the character doesn't have this particular skill then he can't utilize the tools effectively.

It doesn't give the lockpicker a bonus. It offsets any penalty he would otherwise have for not having the proper tools for the job.

A character who does not have the lockpicking skill doesn't know where to start. Regardless of whether he has picks, he can't pick the lock.

A character who has the skill, but no picks, could attempt to pick a lock woth improvised tools (sharpened sticks and a hatpin, for example), but he'll take penalties for lacking the proper tools. One could also rule that some locks are sufficiently complex that, absent lockpicks, the character has no chance of picking the lock.

A character with both skill and picks can attempt to pick the lock at no penalty.

[mayapuppies]

Yeah, and that's why my write-up is "correct" (for whatever that's worth in HERO :D ). In FRED the penalty for not having the proper tools is -2 to -5 and my write-up specifically states that the picks give +5 to apply against negatives for not having the proper tools.

Whereas Rapiers write-up gives a bonus to apply against negatives attributed to lock difficulty. Which in my opinion would be a high quality set of lockpicks.

[ghost-angel]

My only problem with this, is that it technically gives the lockpicker a bonus rather than merely allowing them to pick locks. In my game if the character doesn't have this particular skill then he can't utilize the tools effectively.
No, my construct only removes negative modifiers based on how difficult the lock is to pick. You can get no net positive benefit from a Penalty Skill Level, only remove negative ones.

[ghost-angel]

Yeah, and that's why my write-up is "correct" (for whatever that's worth in HERO :D ). In FRED the penalty for not having the proper tools is -2 to -5 and my write-up specifically states that the picks give +5 to apply against negatives for not having the proper tools.

Whereas Rapiers write-up gives a bonus to apply against negatives attributed to lock difficulty. Which in my opinion would be a high quality set of lockpicks.
Oh I see... you're looking to stat out something that negates those negatives.

I wouldn't even bother. I would just say "do you or do not have lockpicks" and go from there. No need to stat out such things. Any time you use a Skill you are automatically assumed to have the proper tools on hand - if not then you accumulate penalties. No need to stat out the proper tools IMO, just exceptional tools that negate different penalties or give bonuses....

[Frenchman]

Oh I see... you're looking to stat out something that negates those negatives.

I wouldn't even bother. I would just say "do you or do not have lockpicks" and go from there. No need to stat out such things. Any time you use a Skill you are automatically assumed to have the proper tools on hand - if not then you accumulate penalties. No need to stat out the proper tools IMO, just exceptional tools that negate different penalties or give bonuses....
Most of the time, I'd agree, but I can also see a time when you may want to stat out Lockpicks (or another tool) because a character, say a mage with some skill in breaking and entering, may want to be able to create a magical set of lockpicks out of thin air. If the party has a more traditional theif, then he may complain that he is limited by having to carry around a set of (usually) expensive and delicate tools - the wizard should have to pay for that ability.
Again, in most circumstances, I'd just chalk it up to the sFX of being a wizard and tell him to make a power roll, but it really is no more fair than allowing the same wizard to create a weapon or other piece of equipment without paying for it.
Then you could tell the wizard to buy the appropriate power (in this case, penalty skill levels, with Requires a Skill Roll) in order to do that.

[Blue Jogger]

Hmm, my two cents, for what it's worth.


The Lockpicking Spell

Lockpicking 16- (27 Active Points), Lim: Doesn't improve casters skill, just supplies magical lockpicks. (-1 1/2), Gestures Two-handed Throughout (-3/4), Extra Time: 1 Turn (-1 1/4), IAF (-1/2)
Total Cost: 5 Base Points.

[Rapier]

Hmm, my two cents, for what it's worth.


The Lockpicking Spell

Lockpicking 16- (27 Active Points), Lim: Doesn't improve casters skill, just supplies magical lockpicks. (-1 1/2), Gestures Two-handed Throughout (-3/4), Extra Time: 1 Turn (-1 1/4), IAF (-1/2)
Total Cost: 5 Base Points.

That doesn't quite make much sense. This MIGHT qualify as a complementory skill and as such would fall under the rules for those types of efforts. However, this does nothing for the caster. The skill should give them the ability to pick locks, but your limitation means that the caster doesn't get any skill bonus. It also looks like the caster should be waving their hands around in the air for the entire minute or two that the lock is being actively picked...which doesn't make much sense if this power does nothing more than create picks...it doesn't animate them.

If you want a spell to do nothing more than create lockpicks (and thus avoid the -2 to -5 penalty for not having picks) a simple 1d6 of Major Transform air to lockpicks (or you might get by with a Summon) would be enough.

[prestidigitator]

I think the PSLs vs. difficult locks are sufficient. The number will determine whether they simply offset the penalty for not having picks with a, "normal," lock (the GM might assign that a -3 penalty for the campaign, for example) vs. providing a, "bonus," for difficult locks (which might be +5 instead of the aforementioned +3). Even better picks could instead/also provide straight SLs or Lockpicking bonuses rather than PSLs (e.g. +3 PSLs and +2 with Lockpicking, or even just +5 with Lockpicking to make those simple locks an absolute breeze).

[Frenchman]

I'd go with PSLs vs. Not Having Lockpicks - its in the Valdorian Age book as an example of PSLs a character could get.

[mayapuppies]

I'd go with PSLs vs. Not Having Lockpicks - its in the Valdorian Age book as an example of PSLs a character could get.
It is?! Dammit. I have that book. Time to peruse it for more ideas.