How do I build: Caltrops

[SteveZilla]

I want to build caltrops for a Fantasy Hero game, yet cannot find a write-up for them anywhere.

Personally, I am thinking that it's probably just a Drain on Running and Leaping, with appropriate limitations (only vs ground targets, only targets using legs & feet, etc.). I would think that the damage & pain they cause can be just the F/X of the Drain.

If I went with the drain, I would add a limitation (Can be Healed), as a healing effect would get rid of some/all of the "wounds" caused by the caltrops.

But if someone has a better idea of what base power(s) to use, I'm all ears!

Also, "they" are IMO a recoverable focus, that affects an area, and "attack" anybody entering or moving through the area. But I'm not sure of the combination of advantages to get the "attacks people entering/moving", and having a duration only limited by when they get picked up/swept aside.

Takers, anybody? The first 100 I manufacture will be free to you, with only a small fee to cover S/H!

[Steve Long]

See UMA 183, under "Tetsubishi." Same info's in the HS Equipment Guide.

[Bloodstone]

I would make it an 1 pip HKA with the drain linked to it, with the limitation that the HKA must do body for the rdrain to take effect. Similar to how most venoms are written up. After all, there is no reason why Superman or some havily armored dude would suffer from the Running Drain the same as somone that was walking around barefoot or in soft shoes.

As for the advantages you need, I think you would want:

Uncontrolled and AoE (Radius or Any Shape)

Limitations should be:

OAF (bag o caltrops), Range Based on STR ( so you can throw them, preferably behind you), only vs characters on the ground, 1 Recoverable charge, and probably Activation Roll 15- (since there is a chance that a target may not actully step on one).

[Bloodstone]

for the record, the writeup in UMA is probably much more complete then what I just cobbled together ;)

I, for example, completely forgot to add Continuous... :: slaps forhead ::

[Alibear]

Point of clarification.

When you say 'linked to it' you don't mean the limitation 'linked' do you?

I'm guessing you mean 'Caltrops must do body or drain doesn't work'. (-1) for such a small attack perhaps?

[Bloodstone]

Well, you could easily make it a bigger attack (to represent the fact that the opponent probably steps on more then one caltrop), but yes the drain would take linked (-1/4), but then would also have the "HKA must do body" type limitation that you build poisons and such with, since obviously it's not goign to slow you down any if it doesn't hurt you. I believe that limitation is usually valued around -1/2. So two seperate limitations totaling -3/4, in addition to what I mentioned above.

[Rapier]

I would make it an 1 pip HKA with the drain linked to it, with the limitation that the HKA must do body for the rdrain to take effect. Similar to how most venoms are written up. After all, there is no reason why Superman or some havily armored dude would suffer from the Running Drain the same as somone that was walking around barefoot or in soft shoes.

That would certainly work. However, I would more likely skip the drain and just go with a SFX 1/2 movement. It moves things along quite a bit faster and is appropriate.

[CourtFool]

Change Environment also allows you to reduce movement if I remember correctly. I believe you could build it to do a pip of damange and reduce movement.

[Bloodstone]

Alright, somone has invoked a hand waive and somone else has mentioned change environment.

Inertia demands that any second now somone will post to do it as a summon or a transform ;) :p

[CourtFool]

Inertia demands that any second now somone will post to do it as a summon or a transform ;) :p

PRE attack? You only need enough to make your opponent loose a half phase.

[mattingly]

Or Mind Control; Based On CON, Set Effect ("Limp"). :)

[Rapier]

Alright, somone has invoked a hand waive and somone else has mentioned change environment.

Moi? I wouldn't even consider calling that a finger-wave, let along a hand-wave.

Not all effects have to be written up as Drain, Suppress or Transform. If you step on a caltrop, I don't need a linked Drain Ground Movement...it's pretty understood.

I don't need a Transform Non-Bleeding to Bleeding linked to my Sword. I don't need a linked Mental Transform Conscious to Unconscious (Only if target falls below 0 STUN) on all attacks.

In fact, I think my suggestion is a lot more true to the genre. The 1/2 Movement is gone when the foot wound is healed. I don't need to play around with fade rates or heal conditions or stack on -8 worth of limitations.

Sorry if this is attacky-ish. Not my intent. I was just a little shocked that someone might consider and arbitrary 1/2 movement a handwave.

[pinecone]

You can easily do it as a KA that does disable strikes and only works if stepped or fallen on...if you move carfully you can avoid it otherwise you run the risk of a disabling hit to your foot.....a change enviro, that does damage and requires a DX roll would work just fine also....caltrops are for the most part meant to slow oponite, not harm them....

[gojira]

XDM, UAA, to a dimension where the enemy's speed is reduced, and he has a caltrop stuck in his foot.






:D

[CrosshairCollie]

Sorry if this is attacky-ish. Not my intent. I was just a little shocked that someone might consider and arbitrary 1/2 movement a handwave.

I'm not sure I'd call it a hand-wave, per se, but I think that halving someone's movement is far too effective to give it away for free as a Special Effect.

[Rapier]

I'm not sure I'd call it a hand-wave, per se, but I think that halving someone's movement is far too effective to give it away for free as a Special Effect.

I can buy that. I've got a bunch of crits I use and some of those effects are 1/2 movement and such, so I've got no problems with that aspect.

Eh. Six of one....

[SirViss]

Or Mind Control; Based On CON, Set Effect ("Limp"). :)

I didn't think Caltrops could affect you in... that way. Do you use a poison on them?




What?
:p

[Ockham's Spoon]

How about skipping the Change Environment, etc. and just change the Activation limitation on the killing attack? Do it like a skill vs. skill roll where the caltrop "skill roll" is the 14- Activation and the character skill roll is a DEX roll (this should be worth a bigger limitation, say -1 instead of -½). But the character can only make a DEX roll as a half PHA action here, so he can only effectively go at half speed while trying to avoid the caltrops. If he has enough armor he doesn't care, he can go through at full speed. This way high DEX people have an easier time avoiding the caltrops as well, which makes sense.

__________________________________________________ _______
"Uh, Joel, what is Ator sitting on?"
- Crow T. Robot comments on "Cave Dwellers"

[Alibear]

I think the point was that some people would not be effected by pesky little caltrops because they would not pierce the skin is still valid. Would the Hulk really need to make a desk roll to avoid being slowed down?

[Ockham's Spoon]

I think the point was that some people would not be effected by pesky little caltrops because they would not pierce the skin is still valid. Would the Hulk really need to make a desk roll to avoid being slowed down?

Exactly. Of course the Hulk does not need the DEX roll because he is too tough to be affected, so he goes through at full speed, stepping on the caltrops as he goes but not being hurt because the damage is too small.

But if Tarzan is running through the caltrops, he can either go through at full speed and have a the Activation 14- chance stepping on one and being injured, or he can take a half PHA to make a DEX vs. Activation roll to try avoid them. But if he takes a half PHA for the DEX roll, he can only make a half move so he isn't at full speed anymore.

__________________________________________________ _______
"Looks like he stepped in some Trumpy dumpy." - Tom Servo from the Pod People

[prestidigitator]

How about something like:

RKA: 2d6;

[30 Base]
Continuous (+1);
Reduced End: 0 End (+1/2);
Uncontrolled: Turned off by being swept or washed away (+1/2);
Area of Effect: Any 9-hex Area, 2D (+3/4);
[112 Active]
Focus: IAF, expendable and easy to obtain (-1/2);
Fuel Charges: 4, area-based (-3/4);
Only Affects Weight-Bearing Locations (e.g. the Feet; -1/2);
Not Against Targets with Metal or 2cm Thick Protection (-1/2);
[34 Real]
And use this as an excuse to use a particular Hit Location and Imparing rules even in a campaign where they usually aren't used. (The Fuel Charges are to represent that you can use parts of the AoE and save the remainder for later.)

[tesuji]

I am fairly sure that ependable means when you use the charge it goes away, ie they are consumed when you set the power like material components for a spell.

Ca,trops can be recovered and aren't expended. i would run with recoverable charges and a trigger.

On the subject of the slo down effect of caltrops...

it really depends on the campaign.

Will a sword strike to the arm cause any penalties?
Will a fire bolt to the head cause you any longer term penalties than the damage?

If not, then i wouldn't see having caltrops halve your movement be consistent with the campaign standards.

[prestidigitator]

I am fairly sure that ependable means when you use the charge it goes away, ie they are consumed when you set the power like material components for a spell.
The expendability of a Focus really has nothing to do with Charges. They are independent requirements for casting the spell.

Anyway, I suppose we could make them Recoverable. Whatever.

[SteveZilla]

See UMA 183, under "Tetsubishi." Same info's in the HS Equipment Guide.

Thanks for the reference! However, I'm reluctant to use that method (a 1d6 RKA), for various reasons:

1. It depends upon the GM using the optional rules for Hit Locations
2. It depends upon the GM using the optional rules for Imparing
3. The 1d6 attack must roll a 6 to impaire a target with 10 or 11 body, and it cannot impare anything with a body stat above 11. (So even if it activates on 14-, there is still a 83% chance it won't slow them down.
4. It's a 1D6 Killing Attack -- the same as a Short Sword!

And even using a 1 pip RKA (as the "base" to link a Drain to) seems to be more damange than caltrops should inflict IMO -- if Joe Average happens to step on 10 of them (he's really clumbsy and stupid), he's at zero body.

All the above is why I'm favoring a Drain Running with appropriate Advantages & Limitations. It does what Caltrops are (IMO) primarily meant to do -- slow the targets down -- without needing optional rules, and is more reliable than a standard RKA.

[ghost-angel]

Thanks for the reference! However, I'm reluctant to use that method (a 1d6 RKA), for various reasons:

1. It depends upon the GM using the optional rules for Hit Locations
2. It depends upon the GM using the optional rules for Imparing
3. The 1d6 attack must roll a 6 to impaire a target with 10 or 11 body, and it cannot impare anything with a body stat above 11. (So even if it activates on 14-, there is still a 83% chance it won't slow them down.
4. It's a 1D6 Killing Attack -- the same as a Short Sword!

And even using a 1 pip RKA (as the "base" to link a Drain to) seems to be more damange than caltrops should inflict IMO -- if Joe Average happens to step on 10 of them (he's really clumbsy and stupid), he's at zero body.

All the above is why I'm favoring a Drain Running with appropriate Advantages & Limitations. It does what Caltrops are (IMO) primarily meant to do -- slow the targets down -- without needing optional rules, and is more reliable than a standard RKA.
1. no they aren't. The text states in a game where Hit Locations are used they automatically only target location 18. In a game where Hit Locations are not used called shots to hit locations are still allowed, and common sense prevails in that spikes on the floor can't hit you in the head.

2-3. How so? They do 1D6 Damage. In a game without Impairing rules they just hurt a lot. This build is not a build that slows the target down - it is a build that damages the target.

4. The special effect is you step on a lot of little spikes for an overall 1D6 of damage, this is not 1D6 PER caltrop, this is 1D6 for AREA the caltrops occupy.

If the primary purpose you wish to use Caltrops for is to slow the target, then this build may not be for you. Or you could rule that a character who ses the Caltrops ahead of time can move through the area at half speed to take no damage. That's your call.

[SteveZilla]

Change Environment also allows you to reduce movement if I remember correctly. I believe you could build it to do a pip of damange and reduce movement.

Yes, but without some fancy footwork (pun intended ;) ), all those effects are confined to the area of the Change Environment. Leave the area, and your movement is fully resotred.

Although....

Caltrops: Change Environment, Multiple Combat Effects (-5" of Running, -2 to DEX Rolls) (23 AP) - Automatically Resetting Trigger(Activates: Anyone Enters the Hex; +3/4), Useable As Attack(Def: Regeneration, Not Using Running/Leaping with Feet, Resistant DEF on Bottom of Feet; +1) (63 Active Points); IAF(-½), Power Removes No More Than Half of Target's Inches Of Running(-¼), Activation Roll 15- (-¼), 1 Recoverable Charge(-1¼), Only Affects Targets Moving On The Ground (-¼), Only Affects Targets Using Unarmored Feet (-¼), Attached Power Ends if Character is Healed Or After 1 Day(-¼), Attached Power Stops Affecting the Area Around The Target(-0) (16 Real Points)

I wonder if that would work? It is a little bit more complicated than:

Caltrops: Drain Running 3D6 - Delayed Return Rate(1 Day; +1½), Area of Effect(One Hex;+½), Uncontrolled(removeable by spending a Full Phase to sweep them aside; +½) (105 Active Points); IAF(-½), Activation Roll 15- (-¼), 1 Recoverable Charge(-1¼), Only Affects Targets Moving On The Ground (-¼), Only Affects Targets Using Unarmored Feet (-¼), Only "Attacks" Target When Entering the Hex(-¼), Regeneration and Healing Restore Lost Points(-½) (25 Real Points)

Remember, this is for a Fantasy Hero game. Because these aren't magical, the character won't have to pay character points for them -- just money. But I will need to figure out the weight.

Comments are more than welcome on either of the above builds. I think I used the various Advantages and Limitations correctly to achieve the desired result. If someone thinks otherwise, please speak up (politely, please :) ).

[SteveZilla]

I'm not sure I'd call it a hand-wave, per se, but I think that halving someone's movement is far too effective to give it away for free as a Special Effect.

I generally agree. Which is why I would like to see a legal build that does that. I posted two versions (Change Environement vs Drain) a little while ago that I think are legally built. Neither one depends upon being made out of Handwavium(tm), or that certain optional rules are used.

[SteveZilla]

How about something like:

RKA: 2d6;

[30 Base]
Continuous (+1);
Reduced End: 0 End (+1/2);
Uncontrolled: Turned off by being swept or washed away (+1/2);
Area of Effect: Any 9-hex Area, 2D (+3/4);
[112 Active]
Focus: IAF, expendable and easy to obtain (-1/2);
Fuel Charges: 4, area-based (-3/4);
Only Affects Weight-Bearing Locations (e.g. the Feet; -1/2);
Not Against Targets with Metal or 2cm Thick Protection (-1/2);
[34 Real]
And use this as an excuse to use a particular Hit Location and Imparing rules even in a campaign where they usually aren't used. (The Fuel Charges are to represent that you can use parts of the AoE and save the remainder for later.)

That's an interesting idea, using a Fuel Charge. I'm not familiar with using them that way -- would it be considered legal? Also, wouldn't the Fuel Charge also need to be Recoverable? My character could sweep them up later on. And I'm not sure that Recoverable Charges would work with an Expendable Focus....

The problem I have with the Impairing rules is that it seems to be based upon the limb's action being physicallY impared via damage, as opposed to the target's desire to use the limb being impaired due to pain. To cause an imparement in the Thighs/Legs/Feet of a 10 Body target, one has to do *at least* half that (5 Body). Luckily, the rules say it can be either before or after the hit location adjustment, as Legs are x½ Body for KAs.

So to impare Mr. Ten Body's movement we have to do at least 5 Body (after Defenses), which fortunately for Mr. TB's longevity, is halved to 2 Body. But that's still 1/5 of his Body!

[SteveZilla]

1. no they aren't. The text states in a game where Hit Locations are used they automatically only target location 18. In a game where Hit Locations are not used called shots to hit locations are still allowed, and common sense prevails in that spikes on the floor can't hit you in the head.

That whole section where that is, is titled "Optional Effects Of Damage." If the GM isn't using them, shooting someone in the head has no more or less effect than shooting them in the foot.


2-3. How so? They do 1D6 Damage. In a game without Impairing rules they just hurt a lot. This build is not a build that slows the target down - it is a build that damages the target.

IMO Caltrops (of the "anti-personnel" kind) are primarily a deterrent & delaying factor to pursuit. Yes, technically they injure the person who steps on them, but the injury is to a non-vital area, and is a very small wound. Its primary benefit is that it's painful to now use that limb -- every step of the way.

And you kinda made my point about the optional rules. I want a build that functions equivalently, regardless of the use or not of the optional rules. Doing so gives my GM more latitude. He can have certain effects that could be done with those rules (like Impairing of movment), yet not have to have all of those rules in the game.


4. The special effect is you step on a lot of little spikes for an overall 1D6 of damage, this is not 1D6 PER caltrop, this is 1D6 for AREA the caltrops occupy.

True, but most people will stop in their tracks after stepping on the first foot-full of them, so it's only going to happen once. IMO that's not due to having a disabling wound, but because of having a painful one. But however it's defined (single vs multiple caltrops in one step, or many steps), I think that 1D6 is a bit high for something that small.


If the primary purpose you wish to use Caltrops for is to slow the target, then this build may not be for you. Or you could rule that a character who sees the Caltrops ahead of time can move through the area at half speed to take no damage. That's your call.

If the build (whichever one it is) doesn't do what I want, and other builds are legal and do what I want, I'll pick them. But i'm not the GM. I can only offer him a legal build -- it's up to him to allow it or not. I'm playing a pirate/thief type of character. Deterrents/delays to pursuit are very valuable to him! ;)

[prestidigitator]

Well, if you're really interested in doing it without really harming them, how about:

Drain: 2d6 Running and Leaping;

[20 Base]
Variable Effect: 2 powers simulaneously (+1/2);
Delayed Return Rate: 5 AP/6 hours (+5/4);
Area of Effect: One Hex, 2D (+1/4);
Reduced End Cost: 0 End (+1/2);
Uncontrolled: turned off by being swept or washed away (+1/2);
AVLD: Resistant PD (+3/4);
[95 Active]
Focus: IAF, expendable and easy to replace (-1/2);
Can be healed with Body Healing (-1/4);
Only on hard ground (-1/2);
[42 Real]
(I dropped the Charges because you seemed uncomfortable with the, "legality," of them, which actually goes further than the Fuel Charge bit: I don't think you can put Uncontrolled on a power with Charges; you have to use Continuing Charges, and it is really expensive to make them virtually indefinite.)

[SteveZilla]

Well, if you're really interested in doing it without really harming them, how about:

Drain: 2d6 Running and Leaping;

[20 Base]
Variable Effect: 2 powers simulaneously (+1/2);
Delayed Return Rate: 5 AP/6 hours (+5/4);
Area of Effect: One Hex, 2D (+1/4);
Reduced End Cost: 0 End (+1/2);
Uncontrolled: turned off by being swept or washed away (+1/2);
AVLD: Resistant PD (+3/4);
[95 Active]
Focus: IAF, expendable and easy to replace (-1/2);
Can be healed with Body Healing (-1/4);
Only on hard ground (-1/2);
[42 Real]
(I dropped the Charges because you seemed uncomfortable with the, "legality," of them, which actually goes further than the Fuel Charge bit: I don't think you can put Uncontrolled on a power with Charges; you have to use Continuing Charges, and it is really expensive to make them virtually indefinite.)

Actually, the writeup for Caltrops in TUMa has charges and uncontrolled as well. It also has Continuous, which AFAIK isn't needed because of the Uncontrolled Advantage,

I didn't concern myself with Leaping for two reasons:
1. It reduced the cost of the whole build.
2. 2D6 Drain will average 7 pts = 3.5" of running, and 7" of leaping! A dichotomy I can't explain.

[Vestnik]

Relatedly, how would one build barbed wire? I'm building a WWII-themed supervillain, basically a the product of a Nazi SS-officer's pact with the Devil (yup, he's really, really evil). I want him to be able to generate demonic versions of WWII-era weaponry, including barved wire that comes up from the ground and wraps around its victims. I wanted to build this as an Entangle linked to a Damage Shield, but don't know if that can be done. DS can be linked to a Force Wall, but I haven't seen it linked to Entangle. Can this be done? Thanks!

[prestidigitator]

Relatedly, how would one build barbed wire? I'm building a WWII-themed supervillain, basically a the product of a Nazi SS-officer's pact with the Devil (yup, he's really, really evil). I want him to be able to generate demonic versions of WWII-era weaponry, including barved wire that comes up from the ground and wraps around its victims. I wanted to build this as an Entangle linked to a Damage Shield, but don't know if that can be done. DS can be linked to a Force Wall, but I haven't seen it linked to Entangle. Can this be done? Thanks!
I don't see why not. Sounds like a good approach to me.