Witchcraft RPG?

[CrosshairCollie]

Anybody familiar with the Witchcraft RPG from Myrmidon Games? A friend of mine is thinking of running it, but after looking over the book it really looks like Mage: The Ascension with the serial number filed off and different (yet still d10 based) mechanics, and since I dislike the WoD from setting and tone as much as the system, I was wondering if anybody could either verify or dispel my views.

[Spectrum]

I was in a brief campaign that used Witchcraft and it didn't seem that bad to me. Although since I've never played Mage I can't make any comparisons there. But I never got the feeling that it was like a White Wolf game.

[ghost-angel]

Friend of mine picked up the rulebook .. it looks and feels like WoD from a quick read through. But I haven't played at all, so take that for what it's worth.

In fact, I thought it was a White Wolf product until I looked closer...

[AlHazred]

I have both Mage: The Ascension (which I really like) and Witchcraft. Both are similar in some ways, but markedly different in application and style. Mage is more epic in structure, with a heavy emphasis on the control of reality - all the different factions in the Ascension War are fighting to determine what concensus reality will be for the world. If the Technocracy wins, it's like 1984 mixed with Blade Runner and the Matrix. If the Traditions win, it's, er, not.

Witchcraft is more subtle. You're fighting the Old Powers using the traditional methods, but not for such overwhelming reasons as control of reality. In some ways, it's like Unknown Armies, without the post-modern magical systems.

Both are good games. I've never had an opportunity to run Witchcraft, but it looks like it would be a good run.

[DrFaust]

. . . it really looks like Mage: The Ascension with the serial number filed off and different (yet still d10 based) mechanics, and since I dislike the WoD from setting and tone as much as the system, I was wondering if anybody could either verify or dispel my views.

WitchCraft is very different from Mage: the Ascension. Mage has a subjective reality in which a person's focused belief can change things, which called magic. In WitchCraft, the universe is as it is and magic is a matter of channeling energy according to various procedures and such.

A lot of people have commented that WitchCraft feels much more open than Mage. There's less published "canon," as some refer to it, so it feels like there's more room for individual gaming groups to customize the world as they prefer it. And what published material is very open, with the intention that roleplayers should use it however works best for them.

WitchCraft is also a unified setting. Vampires, werewolves and wizards all exist in the world and their origins and cosmologies don't conflict. They're also not quite so viciously at each other's throats as the various supernatural species are in Mage and the World of Darkness.

[Brother Jim]

Drivethrurpg has it as a free download, check it out at

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=139&products_id=692

And I don't think it's very similar to WoD either, plus it's Unisystem so it's fully compatable with both All Flesh Must Be Eaten and Armaggedon.:) :thumbup:

[Blue]

Drivethrurpg has it as a free download, check it out at

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=139&products_id=692

And I don't think it's very similar to WoD either, plus it's Unisystem so it's fully compatable with both All Flesh Must Be Eaten and Armaggedon.:) :thumbup:
As a side question, why didn't they continue the naming convention? Maybe this could have been "All Witches Must Be Burned!" ;) Armageddon would be "All Cities Must be Bombed"

[CrosshairCollie]

Drivethrurpg has it as a free download, check it out at

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=139&products_id=692

And I don't think it's very similar to WoD either, plus it's Unisystem so it's fully compatable with both All Flesh Must Be Eaten and Armaggedon.:) :thumbup:

I've looked over the book, which is where I got the impression that it was Mage: The Ascention without most of the inherent twinkiness, though it still suffered (IMNSHO) of the overhanging end of the world plot, the hidden supernatural schtick, and being too spiritual/religious (which is not something I'm fond of in game worlds), although to its credit, it doesn't have the factionalism hanging over it (the 'we're all after the same thing, in different ways, so we spend half the time stabbing each other in the back even though we're supposed to be on the same side' BS from Vampire, Werewolf, and Legend of the Five Rings).

Edit: W00t, post 2k!

[David Johnston]

Well as far as WoD setting and tone goes, it's worth mention that unlike WoD fluff in Witchcraft there is no particular reason to think you are doomed. You are not part of a dying race, you are not supposedly destined to go insane, or mutate into a physical monster. Nor is there is there any predestined approaching doom for the world as a whole.

[Curufea]

WoD is really a series of horror RPGs (except for Changeling)
Is Witchcraft a horror RPG?

[tomd1969]

As a side question, why didn't they continue the naming convention? Maybe this could have been "All Witches Must Be Burned!" ;) Armageddon would be "All Cities Must be Bombed"

Well, to be fair, WC and Armageddon pre-date AFMBE by quite a number of years, so I kind of doubt that they had that naming "convention" (although, if you have only one book titled a certain way, can you really call it a "convention?" Just asking.) Myrmidon Press has been defunct for almost a decade or more, and Eden Studios have long since picked up the banner.

[CrosshairCollie]

Nor is there is there any predestined approaching doom for the world as a whole.

So, what's 'The Reckoning', then?

[tomd1969]

WoD is really a series of horror RPGs (except for Changeling)
Is Witchcraft a horror RPG?

It is nominally a horror RPG, though not horror in the same way that WoD, CoC, or even AFMBE per se. It is much closer in style and content to Unknown Armies or GURPS Cabal--more about secret conspiracies and secret societies than it is about monsters (although it could be about that, too).

[tomd1969]

So, what's 'The Reckoning', then?
Beat me to the punch. Dang it! ;)

[Cougar]

So, what's 'The Reckoning', then?

I haven't played Witchcraft, but have read through the core book. 'The Reckoning' isn't a predestined doom for the world, it's a pivotal event where things could go either way.

If the forces of good/light/niceness can avert the tragedy, then it's not really a predestined doom, right?

Paul

[DrFaust]

It is nominally a horror RPG, though not horror in the same way that WoD, CoC, or even AFMBE per se. It is much closer in style and content to Unknown Armies or GURPS Cabal--more about secret conspiracies and secret societies than it is about monsters (although it could be about that, too).

I think WitchCraft draws very heavily on Call of Cthulhu for inspiration. Just look at the Mad Gods trying to break into the universe and their servants. WitchCraft can do the traditional farmhouse under siege just as well as it can do global conspiracy or buttkicking for goodness.

[CrosshairCollie]

I think WitchCraft draws very heavily on Call of Cthulhu for inspiration. Just look at the Mad Gods trying to break into the universe and their servants. WitchCraft can do the traditional farmhouse under siege just as well as it can do global conspiracy or buttkicking for goodness.

Hmm. Well, that's points against in my personal book. CoC is another 'must avoid' game for me.

[DrFaust]

Hmm. Well, that's points against in my personal book. CoC is another 'must avoid' game for me.

I don't care for the Cthulhu material, either, but I dig WitchCraft all the same. It's multi-faceted like that.

[tomd1969]

I think WitchCraft draws very heavily on Call of Cthulhu for inspiration. Just look at the Mad Gods trying to break into the universe and their servants. WitchCraft can do the traditional farmhouse under siege just as well as it can do global conspiracy or buttkicking for goodness.

True, it does, a little. But those parts can very easily be ignored and you would still have an enjoyable game. That's all CoC is--remove it, and you don't have much of a game left.

[tomd1969]

Hmm. Well, that's points against in my personal book. CoC is another 'must avoid' game for me.
For most people, the problems that they have with CoC is that most (if not all) PCs are destined to either die or go insane. Almost everything costs Sanity; so much so that the joke going around is, "What doesn't kill you will drive you insane." Is this the case for you?

WC isn't set up the same way: it is possible to have long-term PCs in WC.

In fact, if you don't like M:tA (or whatever they're calling it these days), and you don't like CoC, you might want to give WC a look.

If you're still not convinced, you might want to look at the Amazon page for WC for my full review:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1891153404/

Mine is the very first review. ;)

[input.jack]

Unisystem is a very solid game system. I got introduced to it in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer system. However, BTVS is a cut-down version of Unisystem (like Sidekick is cut-down HERO).

The game system isnt for everyone. About half our game group really dug BTVS, and the other half hated it. (Of course one of the haters is a vocal anti-Joss Whedon dude. Dont know why we put up with him, really...) ;)

Witchcraft is a very playable game. Unlike WOD it isnt all about "teh ANGST!". You arent tragically hip or back-stabby (unless you want to be). In fact, Witchcraft makes a good modern-day wizards and monsters setting. The "secret magic" thing is just a trope for allowing the world to be more or less how we are familiar with it, and still have Magic in it. After all, the vast majority of the inhabitants of the world of Harry Potter are largely unaware that they are, in fact, all just silly Muggles ;)

Like any game system, it is what you make it. Comparing it to COC is a bit unfair, because in Call of Cthulhu the whole point of the game seems to be seeing how long it takes for your PC to go squish. Call of Cthulhu is like Paranoia with tentacles. The noisome and disquieting Elder One is your friend!

I hate COC too.

But Witchcraft is decent. Add in elements from Armageddon and All Flesh Must Be Eaten and youve got a very diverse, dynamic setting. Import some ideas from BTVS and youre ready to rock! :D

[CrosshairCollie]

Import some ideas from BTVS and youre ready to rock! :D

Well, that'd DEFINITELY make me haul butt outta the game. :)

Based on the advice herein, I'll at least give it a shot, if I can figure out anything to play. Nothing really caught my attention in the main book, so I'll check the supplements to see if anything catches my eye.

[David Johnston]

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston
Nor is there is there any predestined approaching doom for the world as a whole.


So, what's 'The Reckoning', then?

Some kind of big fight. But when the WoD materials predicted that sort of thing they'd end with "and your side is going to lose". Unless of course your side was unequivocal scum.

[input.jack]

Well, that'd DEFINITELY make me haul butt outta the game. :)

I liked BTVS, personally. I forget sometimes that others didnt. (Actually, I loved the first four seasons, was OK with the fifth, and wished I could strangle Joss in seasons 6 and 7).

What I meant was that a GM could mix in ANY elements into the campaign that the GM in question felt were appropriate, whether or not they were in the original Witchcraft book. There is a plethora of source material, including a book on how to run Planet of the Apes variants games. Unisystem is pretty broad for modern-day settings.

I still prefer me some HERO, as a Player. But Witchcraft handles magic in a more free-form manner than HERO does.Without leaving it totally nebulous.

[Black Rose]

I've rather enjoyed WC; when I first encountered it, I was on a coming down off of a geeky-gamer-fanboy high from M:tA. I had been playing around with the Thaumaturgy setup from V:tM (and other books), and with some stuff I found online (really the reason I went online in the first place) I had made some intriguing Paths (tiered five-stage unified spell list). Then I saw what my friend was doing with WC and M:tA; he took the Spheres and disassembled them to basic bits - examples being turning Forces into Fire, Force, Electricity, Cold, etc. - and was truly hooked.

For me, WC is the WoD without being of Darkness; I could finally run a modern magic setting with a bit of backstabbing, but a lot more "everybody's just trying to get along in this world" and not feel like I was "missing the point" of the built-in system setting. It fit well with what I call my World of Shadows setting.

And as far as the Reckoning goes, if you think of WC as being somewhat low-key and fairly "realistic" (for a given value of realistic), then Armageddon is the big cinematic extravaganza... or at least it can be. This great big Mad God (think Great Old One) called Leviathan is getting closer to being able to cross over. Lots of Cthulean weirdness in Europe, and it wants to spread. But in the mean time, there are Atlantean Immortals, Vampires, children of Gods, actual Angels and Demons, mages, witches and whatnot... assuming you want them. The stuff about the Angels and Demons is very nice - but I'm into that - and interestingly divided without being WoD-esque. The Atlanteans are always fun, but can be a little much for some. The Gods section is interesting, if a tad static (HERO's spoiled me), but I like the magic and Undead section best - what can I say, I like Vampyres and Mages.:p

[CrosshairCollie]

I went ahead and made the character ... none of the mystical stuff really caught my attention, so I just made a Normal.

They really need rules for rolling over points from Qualities into Skills, though. 20 points is a LOT of qualities when you can't hit the Supernatural stuff. I wound up taking the 'Enhanced Senses' for all sight, hearing and smell simply because I had nothing else to spend them on that even qualified as a stretch.

[tomd1969]

I've rather enjoyed WC[...]

For me, WC is the WoD without being of Darkness; I could finally run a modern magic setting with a bit of backstabbing, but a lot more "everybody's just trying to get along in this world" and not feel like I was "missing the point" of the built-in system setting. It fit well with what I call my World of Shadows setting.

That's perhaps the most accurate description I've seen thus far of why WC did it for me when I found M:tA so... unsatisfying. :thumbup: You nailed it.



And as far as the Reckoning goes, if you think of WC as being somewhat low-key and fairly "realistic" (for a given value of realistic), then Armageddon is the big cinematic extravaganza... or at least it can be. This great big Mad God (think Great Old One) called Leviathan is getting closer to being able to cross over. Lots of Cthulean weirdness in Europe, and it wants to spread. But in the mean time, there are Atlantean Immortals, Vampires, children of Gods, actual Angels and Demons, mages, witches and whatnot... assuming you want them. The stuff about the Angels and Demons is very nice - but I'm into that - and interestingly divided without being WoD-esque. The Atlanteans are always fun, but can be a little much for some. The Gods section is interesting, if a tad static (HERO's spoiled me), but I like the magic and Undead section best - what can I say, I like Vampyres and Mages.:p

Yeah, the PCs in my campaign haven't even scratched the surface of all this... they touched on a Qlippothic entity briefly, but didn't know what they were facing, nor how it fits into the greater tableau. I'm torturing them with glimpses of what's coming, and I love it! :D