Marital Arts and Str Advantages.

[xirr2000]

How do you buy advantages for Str, say Armor Peircing, if you are using Martial Arts? Seems like buying AP for a Str of 20 but then you have a 12d6 Martial Strike (after DCs) would be too cost effective. But then you would have different levels of attacks so it's not clear on what you would base the advantage on. How have others handled this?

2nd Question. If you have a HTK and you use it with MA to increase the DC, how do you figure in the MA DC if there is say a +1 Advatange on the HTK? Make it a 3k6 HTK with +1 worth of advantage and a Martial Strike that is normally 12d6 (4d6 from Str, 2d6 from the Strike and 6d6 from purchased DCs)? What wold be the final HTK value?

[Lucius]

If you are interested in the marital arts, see this thread.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1074532#post1074532

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary notes that for once, Lucius DID read the thread title carefully and got it right.

[xirr2000]

Title updated, any advice now?

[Shike019]

There is a section on Adding strength to Advantaged attacks in 5er, I don't have my copy so I can't give you a page number. I believe the rule is Nothing can increase an advantaged attacks TOTAL DC's above 2 x the Original DC. As such, a 5 DC sword with AP, 0 End, (etc.) would be able to be raised to 10 DC through STR + Martial Maneuvers + Martial DC's. If you want to increase above that you would have to buy a Naked Advantage: Armor Piercing for (total AP of Str), with limits for when it can be used.

Somone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[ghost-angel]

I don't have my books on me so I can't double check ...

so the first questin I don't have an answer to ATM.

second question: You can't do more than double the base damage of a Killing Attack. STR prorates for purposes of how much STR is needed per DC, MA Maneuvers I believe add strait onto that, but again it tops out at double the DCs for the Killing Attack: A 2D6 Killing Attack can never do more than 4D6.

[xirr2000]

Thanks, but i'm not worried about how many DCs I can add as a maximum, but rather how many DCs would a martial strike that normally does 12d6 damage be converted when used as a 3d6 HTK with a +1 advantage. Would it add only 6DCs once the +1 advantage was taken into account, resulting in a 5d6 HTK? Does each extra DC count as 5 Str for purposes of calculating the final amount of damage when using a HTK?

Perhaps I should be asking if Martial Arts DCs can even be used to increase HTK killing damage.

[Rapier]

If you have a HTK

Just for clarity, I believe you mean HKA (Hand Killing Attack), yes?

[xirr2000]

Correct, HKA.

[prestidigitator]

second question: You can't do more than double the base damage of a Killing Attack. STR prorates for purposes of how much STR is needed per DC, MA Maneuvers I believe add strait onto that, but again it tops out at double the DCs for the Killing Attack: A 2D6 Killing Attack can never do more than 4D6.
It can do over 4d6 with Extra DCs bought for Martial Arts and/or with movement damage such as that added by a Move Through or Move By. Remember, thought, that the DCs added by martial arts are halved when applied to Killing Attacks.

[ghost-angel]

Thanks, but i'm not worried about how many DCs I can add as a maximum, but rather how many DCs would a martial strike that normally does 12d6 damage be converted when used as a 3d6 HTK with a +1 advantage. Would it add only 6DCs once the +1 advantage was taken into account, resulting in a 5d6 HTK? Does each extra DC count as 5 Str for purposes of calculating the final amount of damage when using a HTK?

Perhaps I should be asking if Martial Arts DCs can even be used to increase HTK killing damage.
a Martial Strike adds 4 Damage Classes (IIRC) to your attack - it doesn't do damage on its own.

And as Prestidigitator pointed out, DCs from Martial Maneuvers are halved when adding to killing attacks it adds 2DCs to the Base Killing Attack, or 1/2 a Die.

[ghost-angel]

It can do over 4d6 with Extra DCs bought for Martial Arts and/or with movement damage such as that added by a Move Through or Move By. Remember, thought, that the DCs added by martial arts are halved when applied to Killing Attacks.
Can it? Neat. I don't work with Martial Maneuvers enough it seems. thnx.

[Shike019]

It can do over 4d6 with Extra DCs bought for Martial Arts and/or with movement damage such as that added by a Move Through or Move By. Remember, thought, that the DCs added by martial arts are halved when applied to Killing Attacks.


Really? I've been playing an MA and the Reading both my GM and I came up with was you can't more than double the DC's, except with velocity.

[ghost-angel]

I have to reread the Damage Adding Rules everytime someone asks a question on how to add damage... the mind boggles.

[Lucius]

Title updated, any advice now?

Well, my advice is to go slowly and carefully when starting a thread, because it CAN'T be "updated." You can edit your posts, you can change the title of your own post, but once it's launched, you can't change the title of a thread.

As for the topic you meant to ask about: The first observation I have is that I have read the rules in FRED, but I still don't think I understand them. Nor am I sure that what I think I understand makes sense. The problem of adding different kinds of damage together is, in my opinion, the most complicated part of the game.

My advice to Stevel Long is to revisit the topic and rewrite it and simplify it.

My advice to the rest of us in the meantime is to figure out what makes sense for our own games, and go with that.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary advises me that it's 1600 hrs, time for me to go get ready for work.

[Kenn]

I find the Fred method very complex compared to what I did for years under 4th. Edition. I always just converted the added DCs as if the advantage was already applied. If someone had, say an offensive strike with 2 additional DCs in their Martial Arts (for a total of +6d6 damage) and they had a +1/2 advantage on their STR (like Armour Piercing), then the Offensive Strike did +4d6 A.P. when used with the A.P. STR.

I'd just multiply the number of martial arts dice by the inverse of the fractional representation of (1+ all the appropriate advantage amounts).