An idea from across the pond...

[Grymlynn]

Howdy Guys,

I am an American in Germany supporting the Army. I found a batch of gamers, both soldiers and civilians, but the only games supported over here are Games Workshop (by their own stores) and D&D in the BX/PX. I have finally convenced them to try Hero, and I hope to generate enough interest that some of them will look into buying some product. However, they have their own ways of doing things here, and their own sources of supply. Which brings me to my point: Have you Hero guys looked into trying to get some product into the BX/PX system for the armed services, or do you know about a website out here called "booksamillion"? (www.bamm.com) These are the places they get their gaming supplies, for the most part. I know that the profit would probably be nothing to write Grandma about, however, you would most likely be making customers for life. Also, there is a great deal of bonus money floating around here, that D&D is sucking up right now because that's the only game you can find. I don't know if you folks were aware of the possibilities this way, but there are some. I would be happy to be a point guy here for you, there are a few other Herophiles available. I dunno where Der Rote Baron went, but there are even some locals that have been open to something new... Anyway, I wanted to open a conversation about it, and see what you think. Thanks for all the hard work, and maybe I can get you some more...

John

[gojira]

This is a good idea. I friend of mine was stationed in Turkey and admits that all he did was "play Dungeons and Dragons" at the base during his free time. Now he kicks himself because Turkey would have been a great place for sight seeing (there are more Greek ruins in Turkey than there are in Greece).

Two suggestions:

1. Get off the base and get out. You'll be happy you did later in life.

2. Hero should try to get into the PX.

Your Herophiles should be able to buy from the online store--I believe shipping is always free on planet Earth. You should think about starting your OWN store--get stuff from Hero yourself and see if the PX will take a "local business" on. I don't see why they wouldn't, although I've never been in the military myself.

You could also write some articles for Digital Hero magazine. Having some info from a soldier would help, esp. stuff about soldiers themselves, equipment, and life would be great for everyone. I also think some flying circus (http://www.richthofen.com/rickenbacker/) or pulp flying ace (http://home.comcast.net/~cjh5801a/G-8.htm) would also be great.

[Spence]

Howdy Guys,

--snip--

or do you know about a website out here called "booksamillion"? (www.bamm.com) These are the places they get their gaming supplies, for the most part. I know that the profit would probably be nothing to write Grandma about, however, you would most likely be making customers for life. Also, there is a great deal of bonus money floating around here, that D&D is sucking up right now because that's the only game you can find.

--snip--

John

Booksamillion is a Southern thing. I grew up there and Booksamillion fills the slot that Barnes and Noble does up here in the Pacific North West. Only they do not do any video. I looked through the site and they carry White Wolf, WotC, Games Workshop, FanPro, Mongoose and a handfull of others. Many D20 indies and several Print on Demand like Spece 1889. I saw several Battletech including classic. But only one GURPs book and only 6 Paladium listings.

I was in the Navy for 23 years and there was always a very large gaming population, especially RPG. A few books travel better most other hobbies. The all in one book toolkit aspect of Hero (even before it was packaged as such) was the the reason we all converted to Champs back in the day.

For the info of the non-military types, the BX/PX referred to is Base Exchange/Post Exchange for the Air Force or Army. Think of them as a chainstore that is built on military bases overseas (and in the US) so the military stationed there have access to American products, clothes, dishes, books, food, etc. The BX/PX books store has always been extremely open to carrying books and magazines that the military personnel want. I remember when I was stationed in Japan, they started carrying Dragon and Different Worlds because we requested it. Both mags had to be direct from the publisher, but they got them, pre-WotC days.

While I readily admit I don't know the in's and out's of marketing and sales, I do know that the Mil is a HUGE untapped market for gaming. For the Navy as well. I can't tell you the number of D&D games that spring up on board ship when you are underway.

Anyway. Just wanted to note that Grymlynn is on to something here.

[Spence]

You should think about starting your OWN store--get stuff from Hero yourself and see if the PX will take a "local business" on. I don't see why they wouldn't, although I've never been in the military myself.



This wouldn't work. The BX/PX isn't really a "store" in the traditional sense. It is a non-profit set up that is designed to break even and give the military member the illusion of a "store". When they started letting families accompany the military member overseas, they added more features such as food courts (like a mall) and specialty shops (bookstores, computers, software, etc). Now some overseas BX/PX resemble small stateside malls. But it is really all one organization and many of the employee's are active duty military. Another change in the last 15 years was jobs for dependents. The BX/PX provides many jobs for wives, husbands and especially the teens of active duty personnel. The only real indie stores are the "local culture" stores. In each country there are a few shops that sell product from the host country. There is always one that sells what would qualify as souvenirs, Japanese Swords, tea sets etc.

But generally laws and regulations set in place by legislators and civil servants stateside, most of whom have never even seen a uniform unless it was on TV, prevent the establishment of a small scale business at the exchange. What you described was actually attempted at an exchange in Japan by a guy's son. 18 years old. It was noted in the base newspaper (a big deal to the small isolated communities of the 90's) which was read by someone who sent a copy to their senator stateside. The Senator, did what they do, completely fail to ask for details, but instead demanded the Navy explain why they were allowing a "Cult" to distribute "Satanic" literature on station. So it was shut down. That is another thing most civilians don't realize. The military CANNOT argue with the civilian leadership. Period. If someone in Congress or higher in the Civilian chain says its bad they have to get rid of it. In fact the military bookstores had to quite carrying anything that was "other" for a while (astrology, Wicca, Pagan and so on) until a woman (civilian dependent) sued the Army (?) in civil court. And the court ruled that since the exchange existed to provide US product to an isolated population, it would be discrimination to not carry books for all beliefs. So now all the military bookstores can carry everything, (except porn?). But in the end they are very restricted to what they can do. Now it has been awhile since I was in an oversea BX/PX. And things might have loosened up, but I doubt it.

[Grymlynn]

I'm not military myself, I'm a civilian employed by a support concern in Germany. I have access to the BX/PX, and I can tell you that they stock a truly sickening amount of D&D cra... stuff. I know that there would be little to no legal problem with getting Hero stuff in the door (and what with Steve having that lawyer experience...), it's just a question of financial dealings. I dunno what that would entail, not being in the business, but as a fan, I would like to throw out any ideas that may help. Like I said, I've got a Hero game started, and while it's just a few guys in Heidelberg/Mannheim right now, I may be able to do something more with a little direction. You guys are correct, that Hero system could do a lot of business for the military, so I just wanted to bring the idea to Hero's attention (presuming, of course, they haven't already looked at this). And don't worry, I get out plenty, there are some really cool castles along the Nekar river, and the Romantic Road travels right through the valley, too. So, not only do I get good gaming ideas and floorplans, I get points with the wife...! I didn't know about bamm.com, I thought it was another AAFES (army/air force exchange service) thing. Still, maybe if Hero can get into these places, another avenue of customer creation/discovery can be opened...

[Alibear]

There are also German FLGS that deliver Hero products.

Ii can heartily reccomend Hamburg based..

www.dragonworld.de

It has free delivery too.

[Thia Halmades]

ja, as they say, or just have 'em log on and order direct, as suggested above. Path of Least Resistance and all that.

[Spence]

Many mil types do order online, but there are cases where this isn't always possible/practical given their line of work. I know when we would hit port in my days of early youth, we would hit the local NEX/PX/BX and get whatever they had. Before I retired it got easier to order online, but that didn't guarantee the package would actually get there. Many an item of crunchy gaming goodness ordered by me vanished in the vastness of the mail system never to be seen. :(