Amber: Pattern vs Chaos

[Dust Raven]

I've seen and done a lot of talking about the Amber Diceless game and the books it's based on lately here on the boards and figured I'd bring up one observation I made a long time about about the "world" of the game/books.

Amber, the one true world, is forged from the Pattern, an icon etched into Chaos that stabilized the naturally shifting reality into a single, stable form. This orderd, unchanging universe represents one "end" of the entire cosmos of Zelazny's realm.

At the other end is Chaos, the base reality where all matter is eternally shifting and nothing is stable. The universe is litterally chaos. At the center of this chaos is the Logrus, a manifistation of the concept of change and the heart of reality.

With the two of these in existance, the Logrus (Chaos) and Pattern (Order), all of possibility becomes reality, cast as Shadows in between them. Each Shadow represents an entire universe with its own unique laws of physics (or lack of them) and each is different. Anything anyone could imagine exists in Shadow, as does (theoretically) everything no one could imagine.

Now, in the realm of Chaos, life is rigidly structured. Everyone in the royal families lives by a strict code of honor. Their rules and laws are numerous and exact. There is a distinct pecking order determing who is in control of what and who. In Amber, the royal family fights among itself. They bicker and disagree, work against each other and fight over who will rule. Honor is a myth replaced by cunning, coniving and subterfuge.

Interesting, huh?

What's further interesting is that Amber, the Pattern and a stable world would never had existed if not for sneaky betrayal by a young noble who stole an artifact of great power and turned it against his family. No wonder Dworkin went mad...

["V"]

I've been running an Amber based campaign for nearly five years now & enjoy the concepts behind the background immensely - it allows for a nearly infinite variety of cross genre scenarios either on a local level (sorting out problems in a particular alternate world) or a more multiversal one - cross Shadow problems.

One recommendation I would make based on my experience though - and this WILL offend the Zelazny purists - either scrap or widen out the original cast from the novels... there are just too few of them and they are all too unpleasant to build up a long lasting set of NPCs from. The constant politicking and infighting is great for a series of novels, but tiresome in continued play.

One expedient alteration I made for my campaign was to have not one but seven noble houses in Amber - each with their own traditions and 'flavours' and alliances/rivalries between them. And each House of course had various members, some having achieved Pattern and some not. At the start of the Campaign the "seventh house" was unnamed and extinct, with the other Houses knowing only that some dreadful cataclysm had wiped them out. During the course of play (about a year or so in) it was revealed that the Seventh House was in fact the House of Amber itself - the royal House- and the arrival of a last surviving scion threw things into turmoil.

The multi House approach has served me better than the original concept simply by expanding the scope for interaction and Amber-based stories and intrigues. Eliminating the rabid ambition and unpleasantness of every single other Amberite also helps... hell, we've even had quite successful diplomatic marriages, alliances and so on.

Sorry, I know I'm going on a bit... I was just so giddy to see someone else suggesting the background as a gaming setting.

(PS - the published rules are a bit clunky... come up with your own!)

[Dust Raven]

I've never run an extended campaign for Amber, only one shots. I usually have it a generation or two down the line for those of the blood of Amber (which makes it dozen of generations down the line for anyone from Chaos). All of the elder Amberites are pretty much elders who's dropped into the background and legend. It's a bit moment should a player character encounter one.

P.S.: The rules aren't clunky, they're deliberately vague. The entire concept of the rules are to give you a starting point then not to use them and just play freeform.

["V"]

P.S.: The rules aren't clunky, they're deliberately vague. The entire concept of the rules are to give you a starting point then not to use them and just play freeform.

Fair point I suppose - I forgot to add the traditional Internet "IMHO" to my comments... *I* found them clunky and ditched them as soon as I realised that my players and I were happier with a completely freeform approach.

[Publius]

I have been running Amber campaigns on-and-off since the game first came out and I am a regular attendee of Ambercon (after a hiatus). I have always found Amber to be a fascinating game, but it takes good players , and sometimes (unfortunately) they are in short supply. Most of my Amber gaming anymore takes place at the Convention.

I'm finding more and more variant games at Ambercon, which is a phase thing really as I have seen that come and go in the past as well. The variants deal with alternate rules, different settings etc. My Diceless Matrix was actually a big hit, as was the rules system I developed for the last Ambercon that will require a little bit of tweaking yet. Diceless players tend to like 'rules light' adaptations up to and including freeform games, but personally, I like a modicum of rules in the game as opposed to freeform.

[Dust Raven]

Where does Ambercon take place? I've never attended one. Hell, I never new there was one.

[CrosshairCollie]

Fair point I suppose - I forgot to add the traditional Internet "IMHO" to my comments... *I* found them clunky and ditched them as soon as I realised that my players and I were happier with a completely freeform approach.

I was in an Amber Diceless game once, and I had *no* idea what the heck was going on. About an hour in, I just kept thinking, 'please let me roll dice ...'

[Curufea]

Having played a few games, and a few more using the rules but not the setting - and having read the rulebook, Shadow Knight and the novels - there's all sorts of interesting things mentioned that could be expanded on :)

Firstly, there's the Primal Pattern. Amber isn't actually the original pattern - it's the first shadow of the original pattern. Dworkin drew it with the aid of the Unicorn and in so doing, created Amber.
Secondly, there's the Unicorn. Who could be the opposite of the Logrus - a manifestation of order. Or a being from an alternate dimension outside of all shadows and the Abyss. Who may also be the mother of Dworkin's children.
Thirdly, there is the Rose. A secondary pattern created by Corwin that stabilises yet more areas of the multiverse casts its own shadows, just like Amber.
Finally - we have the areas beyond imagination. The limits of shadow travelling are based on what you can imagine (with or without the aid of drugs). Alien minds would have access to shadows that Amberites could never imagine. In an infinite multiverse - there can be things beyond what any intelligent life form could ever reach. Possibly if you go far enough you'll find another version of Pattern or Chaos. An Alien Amber, or Alien Courts. I could certainly see Lovecraftian gods out in the far deeps of the multiverse.

[bigdamnhero]

Thirdly, there is the Rose. A secondary pattern created by Corwin that stabilises yet more areas of the multiverse casts its own shadows, just like Amber.
I always thought that if I ever ran an Amber Hero game (I'm a huge fan of the books) I would center it around this second pattern. Partly because it gives me as the GM more room to make **** up as I see fit. But also partly because, as V suggests, the original cast on both ends of the Amber-Chaos spectrum are a little too larger-than-life to leave much room for the PCs.

[Curufea]

Ah well, the standard for every Amber game I've played or heard about is all the PCs are descendants of those characters, not the actual character mentioned in the books.

[David Blue]

Ah well, the standard for every Amber game I've played or heard about is all the PCs are descendants of those characters, not the actual character mentioned in the books.Me too. (I've played and run a lot of Amber. I like it, and so does everyone I know.)

Though it would probably be an excellent idea to have a campaign based on children of Finndo, Osric and other dead Amberites, black sheep of the family.

The rationale I like best for a bumper crop of young Amberites to be player characters is that this is Oberon's blessing: a baby boom.

But it would be equally valid to have the king's final act be a reprieve: throwing open the gates of sealed worlds, and letting out the potentially dangerous children of those he had seen fit to dispose of in some way. You could even have a full blood Chaos kid, with no Amber blood: nobody would think that if Oberon had a Chaos wife who popped a kid that wasn't his, it would be out of character for him to say: "Neither you nor that child will ever be heard of again".

Three benefits of doing it this way:

1. You can easily rationalize kids being brought up apart, with any mundane background you choose (or rather that the players want), never knowing who their parents were, and with, potentially, a stack of dark secrets hanging over their heads.

2. You don't have the player characters too tightly connected with the elder Amberites from the books. It's a rather un-trusting situation. After all, the elders might prefer to have their own children rather than cuckoos, and the parents of the cuckoos might have been gotten rid of for good reason - bad blood there. The player characters might do better to rely on each other than each to line up with a more powerful possible substitute parent or other friendly elder.

3. Potentially you can populate Corwin's realm without having lots of kids all descended from him, which suits many people but I don't think would suit me. How fast has Corwin had these marriages and so many children of his all raised to maturity? And how many more are on the way at this rate? And would it work (for me - I know for others it works fine) to have so many kids with essentially no other background than "yet another of Corwin's brats - yet another of Corwin's brats - yet another of Corwin's brats"? You might have similar issues.

It might work if you had the children of Oberon's unloved children head away from Amber and its over-mighty elders with their familiar European style power struggles, to a new reality with land, lots of land ("under starry skies above - don't fence me in!"), and a king who wasn't too involved. (Or involved at all - it would be right in character for Corwin to just wander off, as he never wanted to be king, he only wanted to beat Erik.) Nor need Corwin be a jealous dynastic player against the player character kids. He has already had a kid of his own - Merlin - with a bad failed marriage and no obvious desire for another one. And the new realm could, logically should, have unexplored new dangers and challenges too. That might work.

Just an idea. Amber lends itself to such ideas. That's part of its charm.

[Lord Liaden]

If anyone would be interested in converting the Amber game/setting to HERO, some conversion notes have been posted to the forums:

Writeups for Amberite abilities:
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000115.html

Discussion of shadow walking and changing probability:
http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15810


Now, for an original Amber-esque campaign setting written for HERO System, I heartily recommend Wayne Shaw's fine sourcebook manuscript for 4E HERO, Lords of the Way. It was originally posted to the old Red October BBS, and survives in the archives maintained by Shelley Chrystal Mactyre on her website. You can download it by going to http://www.mactyre.net/october/HEROTEST/Files.html , and clicking on LOTW.ZIP and LOTWCAMP.ZIP .

[David Blue]

If anyone would be interested in converting the Amber game/setting to HERO, some conversion notes have been posted to the forums:

Writeups for Amberite abilities:
http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/OtherGenres/000115.html

Discussion of shadow walking and changing probability:
http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15810


Now, for an original Amber-esque campaign setting written for HERO System, I heartily recommend Wayne Shaw's fine sourcebook manuscript for 4E HERO, Lords of the Way. It was originally posted to the old Red October BBS, and survives in the archives maintained by Shelley Chrystal Mactyre on her website. You can download it by going to http://www.mactyre.net/october/HEROTEST/Files.html , and clicking on LOTW.ZIP and LOTWCAMP.ZIP .Thank, Lord Liaden!

I interpret any superhero world I run, or pretty much any world I run, as being part of the Amber - Chaos multi-universe.

So the information in those links is good for me. :)

[bigdamnhero]

And would it work (for me - I know for others it works fine) to have so many kids with essentially no other background than "yet another of Corwin's brats - yet another of Corwin's brats - yet another of Corwin's brats"?
:) Hadn't thought of it that way - point taken.

[fwcain]

My first campaign for Amber Diceless (A Bride for Merlin ('http://fcain.tripod.com/amber_merlin_bride/')) took place in the Courts of Chaos, and lasted for five years. The PCs were citizens or residents of the Courts of Chaos (one was a dragon, all the others were Chaosian, one of whom also had Amberite heritage...).

My new campaign takes place during Gerard's Regency (in the fifth book of the Corwin series, when everyone else is attacking the Courts of Chaos). The PCs are various children of the Elders who were previously hidden and unknown to the family at large, but have now been found by the Prince Regent and taken to Amber. (The Shadow-Storm that resulted from Oberon's re-drawing of the Pattern is still blocking off most of Shadow from Amber and the Golden Circle. All of the PCs were raised in various GC shadows.)

Franklin