Imperial Ground Equipment

[Old Man]

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Ground/Misc-SW.html

[Yansuf]

Interesting.
A few quibles:
1. In Star Trek OS they did once show starfleet using a mortar, it was in the episode where Kirk had to battle the lizard commander. Before the "superior" aliens stopped the battle and set up the duel (tittle of the episode I think) Kirk fired a mortar at the enemy on the colony world.
2. In Menagiare (I cannot spell that) they used a "cannon" to try and blast into the mountain.
3. They rarely showed spacesuits in TOS, and I don't think that they ever did in the later ones. The explaination as I understood it was a "Life Support Belt" that produced a low power force field around the user, within which livable conditions were maintained. If so, it should work vs. RBC effects.
However, overall I liked the article.
On a related note, in 1978 when Traveller first came out, I noticed that my National Guard unit could have easily beaten an Imperial infantry unit. They fixed this later with the addition of reasonably advanced weapons in the supplement "Mercenary"; but I still found GDW inability to comprehend weapons effects to be amusing.
But that is another subject.

[LoresLost]

Interesting.
A few quibles:
1. In Star Trek OS they did once show starfleet using a mortar, it was in the episode where Kirk had to battle the lizard commander. Before the "superior" aliens stopped the battle and set up the duel (tittle of the episode I think) Kirk fired a mortar at the enemy on the colony world.
2. In Menagiare (I cannot spell that) they used a "cannon" to try and blast into the mountain.
3. They rarely showed spacesuits in TOS, and I don't think that they ever did in the later ones. The explaination as I understood it was a "Life Support Belt" that produced a low power force field around the user, within which livable conditions were maintained. If so, it should work vs. RBC effects.
However, overall I liked the article.
On a related note, in 1978 when Traveller first came out, I noticed that my National Guard unit could have easily beaten an Imperial infantry unit. They fixed this later with the addition of reasonably advanced weapons in the supplement "Mercenary"; but I still found GDW inability to comprehend weapons effects to be amusing.
But that is another subject.

When I saw the article's StarTrek side I thought of the mortar in the Gorn episode. As far as space suits, and other protective gear, they are mentioned in TNG and shown in TNG movies. Worf also improvises a personal force field in one episode to deflect bullets from guns (A stuck in the Holodeck episode) so personal protective force fields are not out of the question.

Also I beleive stories being told by the Star Trek series are ment to send one message of a universe with actually little conflect, where Star Wars is a story of a group of galaxy spanning conflects where the peace keepers (the Jedi) have failed for reasons from within and without. I would expect way more weapons in Star Wars canon then Star Trek. (I could easy go on and nitpic the lack of millitary protcol in Star Trek and The lack of startagie in Star Wars but where is the fun in that)

[Outsider]

He makes some pretty big claims as to the effectiveness of storm trooper armor, considering its performance against the ewoks.

[Brother Jim]

That's because the ewoks were actually wookies in disguise....

That had to leave their home planet because they were too short for all the rides....

And they were very, very angry about that.:help: :drink:





Actually, I've read, but have no links to, that the ewoks were supposed to be wookies. But there was either a money problem or a special effect problem.

[WarriorKnight]

Interesting.
A few quibles:

3. They rarely showed spacesuits in TOS, and I don't think that they ever did in the later ones. The explaination as I understood it was a "Life Support Belt" that produced a low power force field around the user, within which livable conditions were maintained. If so, it should work vs. RBC effects.
However, overall I liked the article.

They used the Spacesuits during the Tholian Web episode,when they boarded the USS Defiant.The Life support belt in the Animated Series,which is not considered cannon.

[Outsider]

They also used space suits in one of the movies when they boarded the Klingon ship... and Checkov was wearing one (with a convenient handle on the front) when he beamed down to the Botany Bay (Khan's ship).

As to the ewoks originally being conceived as wookies... yeah, I've heard that too. The reason they werent made as wookies was (i heard) because lucas changed his mind about how 'primitive' wookies were after Chewbacca's character was more developed. In any case, the guy claims that a real world soldier wouldnt be able to penetrate stormtrooper armor with anything short of a tripod mounted weapon (.50 cal) or a direct hit with a (presumably shape charge) grenade. Even wookies wouldnt be able to drive a muscle powered weapon through something that tough. The guy basically overstates how tough the ST armor is by a large margin, and ignores canon that is inconvenient to his argument.

I've always figured blast armor was mostly balanced against Energy attacks, and maybe even had some of its ED limited to work only against blaster fire. It wouldnt protect so much against getting put down by a direct hit, but it might prevent the wearer from getting killed by such, and definitely makes near misses into non events

[sinanju]

They also used space suits in one of the movies when they boarded the Klingon ship... and Checkov was wearing one (with a convenient handle on the front) when he beamed down to the Botany Bay (Khan's ship).

As to the ewoks originally being conceived as wookies... yeah, I've heard that too. The reason they werent made as wookies was (i heard) because lucas changed his mind about how 'primitive' wookies were after Chewbacca's character was more developed. In any case, the guy claims that a real world soldier wouldnt be able to penetrate stormtrooper armor with anything short of a tripod mounted weapon (.50 cal) or a direct hit with a (presumably shape charge) grenade. Even wookies wouldnt be able to drive a muscle powered weapon through something that tough. The guy basically overstates how tough the ST armor is by a large margin, and ignores canon that is inconvenient to his argument.

I've always figured blast armor was mostly balanced against Energy attacks, and maybe even had some of its ED limited to work only against blaster fire. It wouldnt protect so much against getting put down by a direct hit, but it might prevent the wearer from getting killed by such, and definitely makes near misses into non events

I had a pet theory for a long time that Storm Trooper armor was essentially invulnerable to projectile weapons--the only weapons most Imperial citizens were legally permitted to own or carry. Thus, the reason Stormtroopers were such lousy shots is that the rebels had BLASTERS and could actually, you know, kill them.

This made the soldiers very, very nervous--which loused up their shooting. They were mostly used to put down rebellions by citizens who couldn't really hurt them. The threat of being killed was novel and frightening.

But then, alas, Lucas showed us that Stormtrooper armor is no more effective against sharp sticks than it is against blasters. Sigh.

[Manic Typist]

I do not recall any footage showing stormtrooper armor to be vulnerable to anything other than blasters.

I do recall seeing large rocks used to kill stormtroopers, but the armor couldn't protect against having a neck bent at a very unusual angle, or the concussive force knocking the man inside unconcious.

Can I get some citations please?

[Dale A. Ward]

As for space suits in Star Trek, I seem to recall Spock using one in ST:TMP when he tried to mind meld with V'ger.

[Old Man]

And in STVI:TUC, where spacesuited Federation assassins board the Klingon ambassador's ship and, well, assassinate him.

[Yansuf]

Yes, in STTOS they did show spacesuits a number of times. (I consider the movies with the original cast still OS.)
I do not recall the use of spacesuits in TNG or DS9. Anyone who can cite some?

[LoresLost]

Yes, in STTOS they did show spacesuits a number of times. (I consider the movies with the original cast still OS.)
I do not recall the use of spacesuits in TNG or DS9. Anyone who can cite some?

Well if you count the TNG movies then yes the movie Frist Contact has a battle on the hull of the Enterprise with Worf in some others in space suits fighting the Borg. Also in the 3rd season episode The Hunted a life support suit goes missing as Worf hunts for the missing prisoner Danar (the suit existance is mentioned and shown as a 'lump' of fabric but never worn).

[austenandrews]

Wookiees got changed to Ewoks because little people were easy to find at the time, but seven-footers were extremely rare.

[Old Man]

Is that for real?

[Susano]

As far as I know, the Ewoks were used because it was going to be far to expensive to set up the SFX for Wookies. CGI allowed Lucas to create armies of Wookies for Revenge of the Sith.

[austenandrews]

Is that for real?
Technically all the above reasons applied. Chewie's use of technology screwed up the "primitive Wookiees v.s. high-tech Empire" scenario. The availability of little people and low cost of outfitting them meant that the not-Wookiees ceased to be giants.

[Zeropoint]

My take on Ewoks vs. Stormtroopers goes something like this:

1) Ewoks are much more badass than they look. They're cute and cuddly-looking, and have an inquisitive nature that comes across as ACTING "cute", too. However, they are hunter/warriors, who deal with predators larger and seemingly tougher than they are. They're short Wookiees!

2) The Ewoks' weapons took advantage of some of the inherent weaknesses of Stormtrooper armor. As noted above, even if the impact doesn't deform the helmet at all, a powerful blow from a ten-to-twenty-pound rock still has a lot of potential for neck trauma and acceleration effects on the brain. Keep in mind, too, that the armor is not completely rigid. I seem to recall at least one shot of a Stormtrooper taken down by a bola which wrapped around his neck, where no armor was present. Ewok spears, primitive though they were, would likely have penetrated deep enough to be dangerous in the gaps.

3) The Empire's human supremacist tendencies left the Stormtroopers unprepared for the idea that primitive non-humans could be an actual threat. The Ewoks' cuteness didn't help them in this area, either.

4) Finally, despite all this, the Ewoks still died like flies. Lucas decided not to show it, since he was going for kid appeal at this point, but it seems pretty clear that several Ewoks must have died for every Stormtrooper.

All things considered, it's something that I can see happening, especially in a highly cinematic place like the Star Wars universe.

[Susano]

And remember, once the remains of the Death Star fell on Endor, all the Ewoks died.

[Thia Halmades]

So... I have to ask. Are we saying Storm Trooper armor is about DEF 8 (Medieval Plate) or DEF 10 (enchanted plate)? I normally wouldn't put it so high, but we're all saying its IMPERVIOUS to projectiles. DEF 5, DR 75% vs. Physical Attacks? This would also explain the problem with blaster bolts punching straight through - its an Energy Weapon. We know Solo is a master of the pistol (although he doesn't always look it - every write up I see for him he has his signature side arm and probably something like six or eight CSLs with it).

Thoughts?

[Susano]

I recall one source saying that Imperial Stormtroopers were also fairly immune to lasers, such as the weapons the crew of the Tantavie 4 were carrying in the opening of A New Hope. However, more powerful blasters, such as Solo's pistol, could punch through it. There's also the question of how many troopers were killed in the shootouts and how many are just incapacitated due to impact and wounds.

[Starwolf]

They also used space suits in a couple of different episodes of Enterprise.

[Yansuf]

They also used space suits in a couple of different episodes of Enterprise.

True, but that is set before TOS.

[austenandrews]

And remember, once the remains of the Death Star fell on Endor, all the Ewoks died.
If they'd been thinking, the rebels would have just turned off the shield generator instead of exploding it. Then they could have turned it back on to contain the blast.

Or maybe that was the original plan, but Solo changed it after the Ewoks tried to eat him for dinner.

Ewok shaman: "Oo tah nee boo boo tah!"
Solo: "Yes, I'll bet you have."

[mikesama]

If they'd been thinking, the rebels would have just turned off the shield generator instead of exploding it. Then they could have turned it back on to contain the blast.

Or maybe that was the original plan, but Solo changed it after the Ewoks tried to eat him for dinner.

Ewok shaman: "Oo tah nee boo boo tah!"
Solo: "Yes, I'll bet you have."

No they had to blow it up, they sent a team of about a dozen men down there. If the Imperials got control of the shield back they could cause problems with the plans to destroy the Death Star. A dozen men don't hold a faculty, they wreck it.

[Old Man]

There must also be a huge difference between the Scout Trooper Armor and full Storm Trooper Armor.

[austenandrews]

No they had to blow it up, they sent a team of about a dozen men down there. If the Imperials got control of the shield back they could cause problems with the plans to destroy the Death Star. A dozen men don't hold a faculty, they wreck it.
Sure, and in Star Wars a moon-size space station exploding over a planet doesn't cause any ecological damage, either. But if we waive one, why not the other? ;)

[Old Man]

Maybe the fragments landed on the other side of the planet? or didn't hit until the party was over?

[DEFCON Clown]

Maybe the fragments landed on the other side of the planet? or didn't hit until the party was over?
Please don't take away my happiness over the thought of Ewok extinction.

[Old Man]

Maybe they're fire proof?

You know we only saw about three of them actually die from all the explosions and blaster fire.

[Susano]

See Imperial Troops in action!

http://impstherelentless.com/tek9.asp

[DEFCON Clown]

Maybe they're fire proof?

You know we only saw about three of them actually die from all the explosions and blaster fire.
You are a horrible person! Admit it, you are trying to ruin my dream of a field of flaming Ewoks!

[Old Man]

Aw come on, Wicket is cool...and fire proof.

[Old Man]

Well, if the napalm won't work, there's always mustard gas.

[Manic Typist]

Mmmm.... mustard.

[Susano]

Q: How many Ewoks can you kill with a broadsword?
A: All of them!!!

[DEFCON Clown]

Q: What do you call 1,000 dead Ewoks?
A: A good start!