Easily forgotten

[Short Shot]

I've recently been reading a series of books where the main character is a thief. One of her talents is to be ignored, or easily forgotten. The difficulty for her is that it is Always On. Sucks when you want service. On the other hand, it would be really nice for that old Backstab.

What would be your preferred means of building this? I mean it would be a great defense in a lot of situations (the other targets are always much more important) but it really isn't a form of Invisibility since she would always be visable.

[Spence]

What's the series?

[fwcain]

Min Control . . . gobs and gobs of Mind Control. Give it a Set Command: "Ignore Me" (I think Set Command is a -1 Limit, but I could be wrong). Make it Persistent, 0 END, and Inherent (as well as Always On).

Franklin

[Lord Liaden]

I would say that Invisibility would be a perfectly reasonable way to build this effect, if you consider that Invisibility is essentially "not being noticed." That would be the Special Effect of it. Default Invisibility has a Fringe effect which can be picked up by a Perception roll, i.e. someone does notice that your character is there. If you want you can take the "Bright Fringe" Limitation to make the character even more noticeable.

OTOH you could probably justify buying it to 0 END Persistant, and Always On, since there would be definite drawbacks to it, such as the difficulty getting service that you mention.

[gojira]

Yes, and GM Fiat. The thief couldn't have contacts, or friends, or DNPCs or... a lot of things really. If the character checked out though and made an otherwise believable "no one remembers me" character, I'd probably let them take it.

[David Johnston]

I would say that Invisibility would be a perfectly reasonable way to build this effect, if you consider that Invisibility is essentially "not being noticed."

Except that it would be really expensive because you'd have to get invisibility to all sensory forms.

[OddHat]

Anonymity at a slightly increased level (say 5 points worth) to reflect that no public or private reccords are kept on the character, plus 6d6 Luck only to go un-remembered(-1) and a Distinctive Features or Social Limitation: Forgetable, to reflect the many down sides of being completely forgetable. Add on Stealth, Shadowing and Concealment and +3 or more 3 point levels that apply to them, with the SFX that no one notices her.

Alternatively, Invisibility vs Sight Group and Normal Hearing with a bright fringe, inherent, always on, and a "Forget Me" sfx can work in most settings, as could the Mind Control. There are always a few ways to handle it.

[Funksaw]

Keep in mind that this is exactly how Arcane worked in Old Mage (White Wolf) and how Occlusion works in New Mage (White Wolf)

I'd personally call in a package deal of anonymity for the records and invisibility (only sentient minds) persistent, inherent, 0 end, always on.

[Thrakazog]

Except that it would be really expensive because you'd have to get invisibility to all sensory forms.

Not really. He may be in the room and you may be ignoring him, but if he speaks, drops a glass, or farts, you'll probably notice.

[Supreme Serpent]

Out there suggestion:

Buy down PRE to negative levels, then buy back PRE to a reasonable level and give it some kind of limits (passive only to resist, "offensive" use is non-persistent or some such). Use the pts saved and buy things like Shadowing (based on negative PRE) to a high level, and Images to Memory.

Alone in a room with someone, they're going to notice her as she's hard to ignore in that situation. In a diner with other people around, no one pays her any attention, she's less interesting and impressive than the potted plants. (negative PRE) If she makes the effort, she can successfully interact with someone (active PRE), but afterwards the memory fades (Images), but those with good memories still have a chance, though time modifiers help make her even more forgettable.

Alone in a room with Michael Myers, he'll kill you. (He'll forget about it later probably though!) In a room full of people, he'll go after the normal PRE people first, and you can get away.

Suggestion #2: If it all balances out in your/GM's mind, handwave it. :D

[GreyGuardian]

Change environment with negative perception modifiers only to notice the character? make it no range and moves with him and always on. Or if you want it for combat only just give him levels in DCV because people "just forget to look for him or target him etc."

If you want people to forget about him as well then area effect transformation centered on him is probably what would be required.

[dstarfire]

IIRC erasing memories was specifically given as an example of a mental transform. However using transform, or even mind control for this ability would get very kludgy and very expensive. Invisibility to all sense groups is fairly cheap by comparison. The luck option also works pretty well. It'd also give you a way to determine how much of you they 'forget' (your face, your general appearance, the fact that you're present at all, etc.).

Of course, no matter how you build it you're going to need a good deal of GM handwaiving.

[Silbeg]

I would say that Invisibility would be a perfectly reasonable way to build this effect, if you consider that Invisibility is essentially "not being noticed." That would be the Special Effect of it. Default Invisibility has a Fringe effect which can be picked up by a Perception roll, i.e. someone does notice that your character is there. If you want you can take the "Bright Fringe" Limitation to make the character even more noticeable.

OTOH you could probably justify buying it to 0 END Persistant, and Always On, since there would be definite drawbacks to it, such as the difficulty getting service that you mention.

I agree with all of this... and there have been two characters in my games over the last few years with such a power.

Invisibility is a great way to do this... you could even throw in Inherent, in some cases... especially if you are looking for someone so common as to just not be noticed.
A possible lim would be to say not against non-sentient sensors, and/or nullified by an opposed EGO roll...

[Thia Halmades]

Actually. It's three separate powers. That's the thing - you aren't talking about 'one power' - you're talking about one power that covers a spectrum of effects. Those effects are:

- To go unnoticed
- To be forgotten after a brief period of time
- To be able to go anywhere undetected, including combat (as a subset of being 'unnoticed.')

Going unnoticed in a group is an Invisibility with the SFX, "I'm forgetabble."

Being forgotten after a period of time is (I happen to agree) a Transform. It's a minor one, but it's a transform. Anyone who sees her is promptly hit with the gradual effect Xd6 Minor Transform - "You into you who doesn't know me." Trigger: After she leaves the area/scene/conversation.

Third, a combat ability that makes her a less noticable target, which is built as an AOE Mind Control, "I'm not your target," OR, built as a backwards Presence Attack "Attack someone else," - the SFX is that she's ignored, but being HERO, we still buy the ability in question UP. Or give her a BOAT LOAD of DCV.

[Lord Liaden]

*SNIP* OR, built as a backwards Presence Attack *SNIP*

Now this is an intriguing thought. Would you allow a really big Presence bonus Limited to attacks, only to make the person unnoticed and forgettable? Possibly with Always On or No Conscious Control. Activities by the character which attracted attention would count as penalties against the Presence Attack, while actively trying to avoid detection would count as a Bonus.

This demands further rumination. :think:

[Short Shot]

Actually. It's three separate powers. That's the thing - you aren't talking about 'one power' - you're talking about one power that covers a spectrum of effects. Those effects are:

- To go unnoticed
- To be forgotten after a brief period of time
- To be able to go anywhere undetected, including combat (as a subset of being 'unnoticed.')

Going unnoticed in a group is an Invisibility with the SFX, "I'm forgetabble."

Being forgotten after a period of time is (I happen to agree) a Transform. It's a minor one, but it's a transform. Anyone who sees her is promptly hit with the gradual effect Xd6 Minor Transform - "You into you who doesn't know me." Trigger: After she leaves the area/scene/conversation.

Third, a combat ability that makes her a less noticable target, which is built as an AOE Mind Control, "I'm not your target," OR, built as a backwards Presence Attack "Attack someone else," - the SFX is that she's ignored, but being HERO, we still buy the ability in question UP. Or give her a BOAT LOAD of DCV.

This seems to be about the closest, I think, although during her every day stuff its low key.

The books are by Laura Anne Gilman, the series called Retrievers, and the first book is called Staying Dead.

[Dust Raven]

- To go unnoticed
- To be forgotten after a brief period of time
- To be able to go anywhere undetected, including combat (as a subset of being 'unnoticed.')
I'm not familiar with the series, so I would like to clarify something. Is this character actually forgotten, or simply unnoticed with the SFX that people might have actually seen/noticed him, but instantly forget him? The difference is significent. If the character is forgotten, others may interact with him normally including having a conversation or a fight, but would then forget it. This might lead to some interesting events when a failed assassination target wonders where he got that stab wound.

If this kind of forgetting is not the case though, then there is really no need for any kind of Transform. The character is simply unnoticed, or is only forgotten if there was no true interaction.

In any case, there is an alternative to Invisibility. Change Enviornment or Images. The character isn't actually Invisible, simply difficult to perceive. This would also allow the enviornment to more easily affect how difficult it is to spot the character. Out in the open, wearing all black against a glowing white backdrop, this character is probably easy to spot (or easier, though someone may still have to look directly at the character or be specifically looking for something in the area), and difficult in a dark alley filled with litter, dumpsters and large wooden crates (or perhaps impossible with normal senses).

CE or Images may also help make memories of the character's appearance "fuzzy" or incomplete, so even if there is some personal interaction, details will be missed.

[DocSamson]

Tangent --> There was a very short run independent comic named The Forgotten that had a similar concept, but to an extreme Magnitude. He could not only cause poeple to forget who he was after he was gone, but to forget he was there while they were looking at him! Mr. Mystery (the main character) made the entire world forget he existed when he retired.

As far as mechanics go, a No Range Self-Only Change Environment to lessen the chance if the character is noticed seems more appropriate then invisibility. Invisibility would work, but it isn't subtle. As Change Environment forces an initial roll (PER to notice the character in this case), if the target made the roll they would just notice an otherwise inconspicuous character. If one somehow detects an invisible character, I think they will be a bit more concerned regardless of SFX.

To cause someone to forget you completely, I think a BoECV Transform would be alot smoother of a mechanic than Mind Control (though a bit more costly). There would be no need for a command (well-worded or otherwise) and the cumulative nature of Transform would allow for much more gradual levels of success or failure. As above, I'm not even sure it could be done with Mind Control, whereas Transform includes an example of a memory altering Mental Tansform.

[Vestnik]

Could this be done just be treating regular memory as a form of Retrocognition, and then suppressing it?

[Short Shot]

She isn't really forgotten but people just don't pay attention to her. The kind of person who stands up to suggest a solution and people talk over. If she goes someplace with a friend you will remember all the details about the friend but she would be remembered as "SoAndSo's friend" and have a hard time discribing her. On the other hand she can amplify the effect significantly. I think the book discribed it as being able to walk down the street naked wearing purple body paint and nobody would pay attention.

She does have friends, though. Not like the episode of the invisible girl in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But come to think of it, similar to her character before she became totally invisible.

[Psylint]

I've used this before as a Mental Illusions persistent, area effect, set effect "I am no one of consequence." I figured this would be a major change in line with "making friends appear to be enemies" requiring Ego +10, +10 for "target will remember the illusion as being real."

This accounts for all the different senses a target may have, allows high Ego folks to interact with the character normally, and tends to provoke a similar sounding effect in that the target influenced by the mental illusion remembers that there was some guy standing by the jewel case, but can't remember what he looked like or anything much about him. By contrast, when the character smashes the jewel case, folks notice the jewel case smashed and as played this breaks the illusion because the house rule "tripping an alarm fundamentally alters the setting" so the +10 Ego effect would be ineffective.

Cheers.

[DrFurious]

Invisibility, a different interpretation of the Fringe effect (maybe with different costing to reflect applicability in combat time/scenes/afterwards) and Invisible Power Effects. Pricey to do with Invisibility but that's a general problem with some power constructs.

[Mad Fnorder]

What about a Shape Shift to Sight Group, Improved Group (Any human), No Conscious Control? Shape Shift is all perception, anyway. Buy it down to 0 End and you can justify the constant shuffle of how people keep forgetting their face. Might also need IPE, just so it isn't noticable, but still cheaper than Invis.

"Yeah officer, she had green eyes."
"You dolt, she had blue eyes!"
"You sure? Man... I could have sworn.."

[The Monster]

My wife ran a character like this in my (deliberately) brief Adventure Hero set, based on another character (from Don Winslow's series starting with "A Cool Breeze On The Underground"), which sounds very close to what's been escribed - it's not the "power to cloud men's minds" like The Shadow, but just a nondescript face and manner that leaves nothing for the memory to cling to, sort of a "blend into the crowd" effect. Basically, if you have a reason to remember the guy, some specific reason, it's not a problem, but the "so-and'so's friend" already described comes up blank.

A lot of this ends up being roleplay/handwaving. But I built the power as a low-level (3 or 4d6) Mind Control, always on, fixed command "forget me." It's a bit expensive, but at that level, most folks will be affrected just enough, while crimelords and people with vendettas will overcome the control easily.

This power makes no difference in combat, though because of the way the guy is played he rarely seems to pose a threat, especially compared to some of the powerhouses he travels with.