Hulk Promotion

[i8flesh]

In the June issue of Game Trade Magazine we ran a Hulk promo.

Champions, Silver Age Sentinels, Marvel, and Mutants and Masterminds each gave you their versions of the green monstrosity. Each written by their respective publishers, so this is as close to "official" as you get.

Have you seen it? What are your impressions?

If you haven't seen it yet, what are you waiting for? Go to your local retail store and ask for a copy of the June issue of Game Trade Magazine today!

[Tempuswolf]

Easy enough to spot with the Champions on the cover whooping the SAS' collective butt. (Or should I say about to whoop :) )

[i8flesh]

Yes that was the cover! But what did you think of the promotion?

[Kid Chaos]

I would be interested in that one....I've been working on converting the old MSH or even Marvel Saga character write-ups to Champions.

I also plan on grabbing the Game Trade to see Hero's take on the Hulk as well.

[Kid Chaos]

My FLGS hands out a copy with every purchase. I've been working on my wife on allowing me to head down there anyway to buy USPD. So It all works out anyway.

[Kid Chaos]

There's a website with the old MSH game to Champions conversions. I don't agree with all of the conventions though. He bases STR on imagined damage dealing as opposed to lifting. Problem is he's using a converted value to alter a measurable one to his liking. MSH states how much each hero can lift with a given ability score. To me that's the place to start and work out DC from there.

By new marvel I'm guessing you mean the game being produced currently?

[Redmenace]

Originally posted by i8flesh
In the June issue of Game Trade Magazine we ran a Hulk promo.

Champions, Silver Age Sentinels, Marvel, and Mutants and Masterminds each gave you their versions of the green monstrosity. Each written by their respective publishers, so this is as close to "official" as you get.

Have you seen it? What are your impressions?

If you haven't seen it yet, what are you waiting for? Go to your local retail store and ask for a copy of the June issue of Game Trade Magazine today!

As it was on the cover I was expecting something about the crossover adventure other than the brief pre-order blurb. That said I was very pleased to see the Hulk variations. I would have bought the issue for that alone and if you do more things along this line I might become a regular.

[Kid Chaos]

Yes they were, I buy most other Super RPGs for conversion to Champions. Now if I could only find my X-Men book.

You can see the new system in teh Game Trade article I would assume.

[BlackSword]

Originally posted by Morningstar70
Sad news - MSH or Marvel Saga are not represented in this one. Hang on though... I have my old game disk.

AGILITY TO DEXTERITY/Speed
For Values less than 10, add 5 to (Agility Marvel x 2.5). For values greater than 10, subtract 10 from the DEX, and add the result to 30.
For Example:
The Thing has Agility 6. 6 x 2.5 = 15 + 5 = 20.
Captain America has Agility 10. 10 x 2.5 = 25 + 5 = 30.
Spider-Man has Agility 14. 14-10 = 4. 30 + 4 = 34.
Silver Surfer has Agility 20. 20 - 10 = 10. 30 + 10 = 40.


Not to be too picky, but the system for greater than ten looks like add 20 (subtract 10 add 30). Am I missing something?

[Agent X]

I think Hulk starts out a little stronger than a 70.

The Aid should aid his Super-Strength tricks as well.

I think his PD and ED should be a tad higher.

His speed actually increases when he gets mad as well. This would be difficult to quantify.

He needs reduced endurance on his strength.

[Mightybec]

Originally posted by i8flesh
In the June issue of Game Trade Magazine we ran a Hulk promo.

Champions, Silver Age Sentinels, Marvel, and Mutants and Masterminds each gave you their versions of the green monstrosity. Each written by their respective publishers, so this is as close to "official" as you get.

Have you seen it? What are your impressions?

If you haven't seen it yet, what are you waiting for? Go to your local retail store and ask for a copy of the June issue of Game Trade Magazine today!

I liked it, but it was said elsewhere that the character info had to be trimmed down to fit on one page. I know that there's limited space for the info, but in the future, could the additional info be located on one of the back pages? Is there plans to do this for the other Marvel movies that are planned for the near future?

Mightybec

[rayoman]

Which webpage?


Originally posted by Morningstar70
It's in PDF form on the web-page.

[JmOz]

DW Did the write up didn't he?

[Mightybec]

Originally posted by JmOz
DW Did the write up didn't he?

I believe so. The origonal conversation about the magazine article is in the Company Questions folder.

Mightybec

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by rayoman
Which webpage?

You can find it via

http://www.gametrademagazine.com/

and clicking on "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!"

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Morningstar70
Are we talking Marvel tons? ;)



I was thinking that as well.



Check the Damage Reduction. He's good enough. Nothing conventional is going to give him anything more than a short headache on the way to inducing him to give him that 26 Dice pounding you so richly deserve for MAKE HULK MAD!



When Lee and Kirby or Lee and Ditko were doing the Hulk, he was VERY acrobatic and agile. I remember classically one scene where the Hulk did a somersault over a bridge from the back of a truck, over traffic, to land back on the truck.



Hulk have 100 End and 32 REC. Hulk not get tired. The Hulk may not functionally need the reduced endurance but he has it (or had it when I read the title) in the comics.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Morningstar70
Everyone has 0 End on their strength in the comics. Now, now, now, they have mentioned in the Hulk stories that he doesn't get tired as the rage just makes him stronger. I remember the Thing complaining about this in his thought baloons as he tried to figure out how to keep his head from being removed from his shoulders by the Hulk.

[i3ullseye]

Under new marvel stats the hulk has the accelerated healing. this covers his never tiring. the new system is pretty damn good actually. an very easy to convert to other systems.

Hulks strength range......

Starts at 10 -this is the ability to lift 100 tons. This has always been his strength since the first marvel RPG.

But when angry he gets up to a Strenngth 18. they don't give the scale for numbers above 10 on the D&R chart. but you can get the D&R chart from their site if you want to try to see how the stats work in the system, and how you would convert them ( http://www.marvel.com/murpg) . There is also a sheet with stats for Spiderman and Storm, and I also have this info linked at the forums (http://murpg.proboards19.com).

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Morningstar70
Just teasing, fellow Doug. :D Me too, I would never say now, now, now when I was serious. That is way too condescending a phrase for a real conflict.:)

[Willpower]

Originally posted by Kid Chaos
There's a website with the old MSH game to Champions conversions. I don't agree with all of the conventions though. He bases STR on imagined damage dealing as opposed to lifting. Problem is he's using a converted value to alter a measurable one to his liking. MSH states how much each hero can lift with a given ability score. To me that's the place to start and work out DC from there.

By new marvel I'm guessing you mean the game being produced currently?


I agree. Being that it is the easiest, if not the only quantifiable attribute then I always think that is the best place to start.

[i8flesh]

It wasn't that there was extra character info that was cut. It was part of the design parameters that we gave each of the companies. We do have limited space, so I requested that they each design their versions of the Hulk, using their systems, but it all has to fit upon one page.

I think it really shows the difference between each of the systems well with one page. Champions is much more detail oriented than the other systems, and so their page has more text.

I'm not sure who at each company did the specific write-ups. If Darren did the Hulk, he is quite a fan boy, lots of small details. A 648 pt Hulk is quite impressive.

We currently do not have any plans to do this for any of the other upcoming movies. But we do have other promotions in upcoming issues that are just as interesting.

Please visit your local retailer and ask him for a copy of the magazine each month. This is the only way we will be able to bring you such great promotions as this.

[SirViss]

Originally posted by i8flesh
...
We currently do not have any plans to do this for any of the other upcoming movies. But we do have other promotions in upcoming issues that are just as interesting.
...

You could do it for the Punisher next year! Dark Champions is coming out "mid-2004", and if I can believe the poster I saw yesterday, so is the Punisher movie. If the order is right (book before movie) I think it would be cool.

[i8flesh]

There is also Hellboy and Lady Death.

We will see. I am not opposed to it. I think this was one of the best promos that we have done. Right up there with having Larry Elmore draw your player character.

[Tom McCarthy]

I liked looking at the articles.

It was interesting to see how the Hero System writeup was much longer and more detailed than the others, and the author claims he had to trim and edit to fit. SAS took half a sheet, M&M didn't even use their most compact format, and the Marvel Universe RPG looks like it could be boiled down into a very short paragraph.

I don't know the Marvel Universe RPG very well, but it's interesting that Hulk (while very powerful) looks like he could be defeated by characters from each of the other universes. Grond, at only 410 points, could stand toe to toe with Hulk for a while. Dr. Destroyer would probably even win. Kreuzritter or Sentinel would give Hulk an incredible battle, as might Capt. Thunder or some of the really powerful M&M villains.

Kind of makes me wonder what SAS Hulk, ported through the Reality Storm conversion system, might look like compared to Darren's Hulk.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Tom McCarthy
I don't know the Marvel Universe RPG very well, but it's interesting that Hulk (while very powerful) looks like he could be defeated by characters from each of the other universes. Grond, at only 410 points, could stand toe to toe with Hulk for a while. Dr. Destroyer would probably even win. Kreuzritter or Sentinel would give Hulk an incredible battle, as might Capt. Thunder or some of the really powerful M&M villains.

Well, that has been the way the Hulk has been depicted most often over the years: the strongest of the other Marvel bricks could give him a solid fight for a certain period, until the Hulk got so mad that his power simply became overwhelming. In theory if you're going to beat the Hulk you have to do so early in the fight, but Darren has given Hulk such formidable defenses and Recovery that he would be difficult for almost any opponent to finish off quickly.

This version of the Hulk is very similar to my own modifications to Grond to make him more Hulk-like, especially the use of Aid (although I had the Aid work for Endurance as well). The magnitude is about the same, too. Note that if you raise the Hulk's base Strength to 90, his max would be 150, doing as much damage as Dr. Destroyer's biggest attack Power, which seems like a reasonable upper limit.

[Urklore]

WOW! I just went out and bought the mag, very nice! If you this could be done with a marvel character, 1 per issue, I know I'd subscribe in a heart beat!! Or even if they had just champion stats!

[Agent X]

I personally think the given version of the Hulk in the Magazine is under-pointed and I believe a few things were left out because of space considerations. Here is a version I just whipped up using the Magazine version as a starting point:

(I got lazy and decided not to write up Hulk's ability to make wild animals feel perfectly safe around him when he is calm.)

This isn't pretty but I am probably one of the most computer illiterate people who post on the boards. Heck, I was proud I figured out how to assign myself an avatar without help.

Hulk
Value Char. Cost Roll Notes
80/90 STR 70 27- Lift 6.6ktons; 18d6 HTH damage, STR can go up to 150
18/20 DEX 24 13- OCV: 7/DCV: 7
40 CON 60 17- up to 9 CV
25 BODY 30 14-
7 INT -3 10- PER Roll 10-
20 EGO 20 13- ECV: 7
30 PRE 20 15- PRE Attack: 6d6
6 COM -2 10-
37 PD 19 Total: 37 PD (30 rPD)
30 ED 22 Total: 30 ED (30 rED)
6 SPD 30 Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12
34 REC 16
100 END 10
85 STUN -5 Total Characteristics Cost: 333
Movement: Run: 12"/NC" (How could he possibly not run faster than me?)
Swim: 12"/NC" (The Hulk can swim pretty fast as anyone who remembers his duels with Namor can attest too.)

Cost Powers END
Characteristics When Wary, all slots: Limited Power Only When Wary (+0)
15 1) +10 STR, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (15 Active Points)
6 2) +2 DEX (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic)
59 The Madder Hulk Gets, The Stronger Hulk Gets: Aid: Strength, PD, ED, DR, Stun, Super-Strength Tricks 2d6, Can Add Maximum Of 60 Points, Trigger (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 20 Minutes) (+3/4), Variable Effect All Powers Simultaneously (+2) (176 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Only Effects cannot be controlled (+1), Self Only (-1/2), Limited Power Points Fade Immediately If He Recovers from Enraged (-1/2)
15 The Madder Hulk Gets the Quicker Hulk Gets: Aid: Dexterity and Speed 1d6, Can Add Maximum Of 21 Points, Trigger (+1/4), Variable Effect Two Powers Simultaneously (+1/2), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 20 Minutes) (+3/4) (44 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Only Effects cannot be controlled (+1), Self Only (-1/2), Limited Power Points Immediately Fade If He Recovers From Enraged (-1/2)
40 Hulk Not Get Tired, Hulk Only Get Stronger: +0 STR, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (40 Active Points) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic)
86 Super-Strength Tricks: Multipower, 100-point reserve, all slots: Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (150 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Extra Time Delayed Phase (-1/4)
4u 1) Shockwave: Energy Blast 10d6 (vs. PD), Hole In The Middle Fixed Size (+1/4), Explosion (-1 DC/2"; +3/4) (100 Active Points); Limited Power Only Affects Targets on the Ground (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2)
6u 2) Blow Out/Clap Out: Dispel Fire Powers 19d6, Does Knockback (+1/4), Explosion (Cone -1 DC/2"; +1/2) (100 Active Points)
4u 3) Thunderclap: Flash 12d6 (Hearing Group), Hole In The Middle Fixed Size (+1/4), Does Knockback (+1/4), Explosion (+1/2), Double Knockback 2x KB (+3/4) (99 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2)
4u 4) Wrapping Opponents Up: Entangle 10d6, 10 DEF (100 Active Points); OIF: appropriate materials of opportunity (-1/2), Limited Power Defense depends on Materials Used (-1/2)
7 Dense Body: +0 ED, Hardened (+1/4) (7 Active Points) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic)
9 Dense Body: +0 PD, Hardened (+1/4) (9 Active Points) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic)
37 Dense Body: Damage Resistance (30 PD/30 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points)
60 Sheer Toughness: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 60 Real Cost) Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (Real Cost: 30) plus Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (Real Cost: 30)
20 Gamma Enhanced Physiology: Life Support , Extended Breathing, Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents, Safe in High Pressure, Safe in High Radiation, Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat, Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum
7 Resistant to Mind Control: +10 Mental Defense (14 points total) (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only to Mind Control (-1/2)
67 Super-Strong Legs: Leaping +20" (38" forward, 19" upward) (x64 Noncombat), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (67 Active Points)
22 Fast Healing: Healing 3 BODY, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)
6 Animal Like Senses: Enhanced Perception (+2 to PER Rolls for All Sense Groups)
17 Sense Direction of Hulk's Birthplace (Gamma Bomb Test Site): Detect A Single Thing 17-, Sense, Tracking
5 See the Astral: Detect Astral Forms 10-
7 Puny Banner Form: Multiform (100 Character Points in the most expensive form) (20 Active Points); No Conscious Control: only through Accidental Change (-2)

Skills
15 +3 with HTH Combat
4 +2 punch
9 +3 Super Strength Tricks
3 Climbing 13-
3 Power (DEX-based) 13-
3 Concealment 10-
2 Survival (Desert) 10-

Total Powers & Skills Cost: 542
Total Cost: 865

400+ Disadvantages
15 Accidental Change: When calm, tranquilized, or sleeping 11- (Common)
5 Accidental Change: When exposed to strange radiation 8- (Uncommon)
20 Psychological Limitation: Overconfidence (Very Common; Strong)
15 Psychological Limitation: Mistrustful (Very Common; Moderate)
15 Psychological Limitation: Ill-tempered and Prone to Violence (Common; Strong)
25 Enraged: When combat lasts more than one turn (Common), go 11-, recover 8-
25 Enraged: When Loved Ones are Believed Harmed (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 8-
20 Enraged: When He Realizes He Has Been Tricked or Duped (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 11-
20 Enraged: When Someone Else Claims to be STRONGEST ONE THERE IS (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 11-
15 Dependent NPC: Betty Ross/Betty Banner 11- (Normal)
15 Dependent NPC: Rick Jones: youthful companion 11- (Normal)
20 Reputation: Violent Frightening Monster 14- (Extreme)
20 Hunted: US Army 11- (As Pow; Capture/Harshly Punish; Extensive Non-Combat Influence)
10 Hunted: One Member of his Rogue's Gallery 8- (As Pow; Kill/Harshly Punish)
10 Hunted: Two or more Members of his Rogues' Gallery 8- (As Pow; Kill/Harshly Punish)
20 Distinctive Features: Huge Scary Green Muscular Guy (Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
10 Money: Destitute
10 Unluck: 2d6
15 Physical Limitation: Difficulty with Fine Manipulation: example dialing a phone (All the Time; Slightly Impairing)
10 Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Ego Attacks (Uncommon)
10 Vulnerability: 2 x Effect Gas Attacks (Uncommon)
20 Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Gas Attacks (Common)

Total Disadvantage Points: 875

Hopefully, this will start a huge debate about philosophy of scale in Champions! :)

[Nato]

My Hulkamania meter was already pegged before I saw this, now it looks like the guage is shattered. Kick ass. Many thanks to all those involved in putting this together. The art was great too. I forgot how awesome Dale Keown's Hulk is, and I LOVE J.R. Jr! Thanks Game Trader!

[Urklore]

Note sure if I can do this or not and without getting in trouble, I assumed I could since the PDF is on the website? Here is the HD file.

The shockwave power costs 3pts and not 4 as stated in the PDF. I removed the restrainable limitation from the shockwave power (I do not see how this power would be restrainable), this brought the power up to the 4pt cost on the PDF.

[Nato]

It's restrainable because if you were to entangle the hulk or otherwise stopped him from moving his limbs he couldn't use the power. If it wasn't restrainable he could use the attack to break free of an entangle or use the attack even though he couldn't move.

[Agent X]

Hulk Stronger than Grond. Hulk Faster than Grond. Hulk better looking than Grond. Hulk Tougher than Grond.

[Nato]

Yeah but Grond has FOUR arms. That's gotta count for something. ;)

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Nato
Yeah but Grond has FOUR arms. That's gotta count for something. ;) That's a saucy statement. :cool:

[Mightybec]

Originally posted by Nato
Yeah but Grond has FOUR arms. That's gotta count for something. ;)

Like being better at juggling?

Mightybec

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Nato
Yeah but Grond has FOUR arms. That's gotta count for something. ;)

Just means he can count to twenty instead of 10...

[Nato]

I didn't know he could do that! Did someone raise his INT and not tell me about it?

[Lord Liaden]

Grond wear blue pants with green skin, not purple pants! Grond have stronger fashion sense than Hulk!

[Nato]

HA!

I drew Grond for a chapter header in Millennium City and forgot to give him ANY pants whatsoever. Andy wquickly replied "Give that guy some pants!"

[Agent X]

It appears no one has taken the bait. Alas, I was hoping for a rousing debate about where Hulk's base strength should be set at.

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by Agent X
It appears no one has taken the bait. Alas, I was hoping for a rousing debate about where Hulk's base strength should be set at.

I think it should be set at a number that sounds really high to me, but is pathetically low by the standards of others' campaigns, yet is so mind-bogglingly over what others believe is correct to be silly.

That is my proposal. It's pretty much what every single one of those debates boils down to.

[Lord Liaden]

Jhamin, I would like to put that on a t-shirt and wear it to every comic fanboy debate I'm forced to sit through.

Well said. :D

[Thirdbase]

Originally posted by Agent X
It appears no one has taken the bait. Alas, I was hoping for a rousing debate about where Hulk's base strength should be set at.

Higher than your heroes.:D

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Jhamin
I think it should be set at a number that sounds really high to me, but is pathetically low by the standards of others' campaigns, yet is so mind-bogglingly over what others believe is correct to be silly.

That is my proposal. It's pretty much what every single one of those debates boils down to. I love this response. ROTFLMOL :)

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Jhamin, I would like to put that on a t-shirt and wear it to every comic fanboy debate I'm forced to sit through.

Well said. :D I love fanboy debates because I am always right. :D

[Steve Long]

Jhamin's response (as well as, heck, much of this entire thread) demonstrates one of many reasons why I'm just as glad we don't have any major licenses for Champions. ;)

[Kid Chaos]

Bah I think at the least I would love for the different companies to agree to publish a DC/Marvel/Champions/Mutants and Masterminds/Silver Age Sentinels cross genre guide...would be a bloody big book though.

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Jhamin's response (as well as, heck, much of this entire thread) demonstrates one of many reasons why I'm just as glad we don't have any major licenses for Champions. ;)

STEEEEEVVVEEEE *in a whiny tone of voice* I think Grond should be the strongest one there is in the Champions Universe!

Don't think we can't be annoying fanboys just because you make up all the characters. :D

[zakueins]

IMHO, it's VERY cool. You should have something like this every month, taking a Popular Superheroic/Heroic/Anime Franchise and producing a character for it in the four systems displayed. Not only would it give us a relative idea of power levels, but it would also show us how each system represents each.


Originally posted by i8flesh
In the June issue of Game Trade Magazine we ran a Hulk promo.

Champions, Silver Age Sentinels, Marvel, and Mutants and Masterminds each gave you their versions of the green monstrosity. Each written by their respective publishers, so this is as close to "official" as you get.

Have you seen it? What are your impressions?

If you haven't seen it yet, what are you waiting for? Go to your local retail store and ask for a copy of the June issue of Game Trade Magazine today!

[artmc]

Originally posted by i8flesh
In the June issue of Game Trade Magazine we ran a Hulk promo.

Champions, Silver Age Sentinels, Marvel, and Mutants and Masterminds each gave you their versions of the green monstrosity. Each written by their respective publishers, so this is as close to "official" as you get.

Have you seen it? What are your impressions?

Sorry for the late reply.
Yes I would be very interested in this, though every month might be too much for the designers. Possibly having companies switch off every other month. Maybe do the special every other month, but have other companies added to the list, depending on the 'source' selected. Or something along those lines.


* art *

[artmc]

Did any one else notice that only the 'Official' Marvel game left out the whole Astral Sight/Vision thing?

Very odd, 4 write-ups and only the one from the new Marvel game missed that. I wonder if this is being removed from canon for the Hulk.


*art *

[Agent X]

Originally posted by artmc
Did any one else notice that only the 'Official' Marvel game left out the whole Astral Sight/Vision thing?

Very odd, 4 write-ups and only the one from the new Marvel game missed that. I wonder if this is being removed from canon for the Hulk.


*art * Not too many picked up on his ability to sense relative location to the Gamma Bomb Test Site. The one that did didn't really go into the details of how it would work either.

[Steve Long]

Did any one else notice that only the 'Official' Marvel game left out the whole Astral Sight/Vision thing?

Very odd, 4 write-ups and only the one from the new Marvel game missed that. I wonder if this is being removed from canon for the Hulk.

Speaking as someone who's worked on a lot of licensed RPGs involving some extremely popular properties...

You're reading way too much into that omission. Go with the Occam's Razor explanation: they forgot it.

[artmc]

Originally posted by Steve Long
Speaking as someone who's worked on a lot of licensed RPGs involving some extremely popular properties...

You're reading way too much into that omission. Go with the Occam's Razor explanation: they forgot it.

Good point Steve.

I don't have the MURPG *YET*, and I know that there will be more Hulk info in the "Guide To The Hulk and The Avengers" in September. As you said it could be an easy oversight.

* art *

[artmc]

Originally posted by Agent X
Not too many picked up on his ability to sense relative location to the Gamma Bomb Test Site. The one that did didn't really go into the details of how it would work either.

I missed that one. Though Green Ronin did include Direction Sense, which 'could' cover that.


* art *

[Agent X]

Originally posted by artmc
I missed that one. Though Green Ronin did include Direction Sense, which 'could' cover that.


* art * Yep, I don't know how direction sense works in that game but I assumed it was meant to cover that. I still think he is under-pointed in the Champs write-up. Heck, my aid for his strength needs to go up another 50% in cost so his strength can go up to 150 - I forgot to calculate the impact of "Hulk Not Get Tired, Hulk Only Get Stronger!" aka zero endurance on strength.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Agent X
I still think he is under-pointed in the Champs write-up. Heck, my aid for his strength needs to go up another 50% in cost so his strength can go up to 150 - I forgot to calculate the impact of "Hulk Not Get Tired, Hulk Only Get Stronger!" aka zero endurance on strength.

I agree that the Hulk's rage does seem to fuel his vitality as much as his strength, but I was thinking of taking a different approach to that effect for his HERO writeup: expanding the effects of his Aid to work simultaneously on his Strength and Endurance. His exceptional Recovery stat already makes him virtually tireless at his normal strength, and between that and the extra END each Phase from Aid, he'd still be practically inexhaustable even at STR 150.

As far as reaching that level goes (which I also think is a reasonable maximum), is there any reason why you would not want to raise his base STR to 90? That would add up perfectly with the given Aid amount, and is probably the simplest change to enable you to do that.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
I agree that the Hulk's rage does seem to fuel his vitality as much as his strength, but I was thinking of taking a different approach to that effect for his HERO writeup: expanding the effects of his Aid to work simultaneously on his Strength and Endurance. His exceptional Recovery stat already makes him virtually tireless at his normal strength, and between that and the extra END each Phase from Aid, he'd still be practically inexhaustable even at STR 150.

As far as reaching that level goes (which I also think is a reasonable maximum), is there any reason why you would not want to raise his base STR to 90? That would add up perfectly with the given Aid amount, and is probably the simplest change to enable you to do that. I did raise his base strength to 90. :D I know the write-up I posted is ugly to look at it but if you look closely you will see we are of like mind on his base strength.

Actually, when he is in a calm state hanging out with puppy dogs or little blind kids his strength would probably be 80. The minute he is wary, concerned, annoyed, it would be 90 (for a -0 limitation). Then, when the fighting begins so does the Aid.

The Aid to Endurance is definitely another way to go. Just a matter of taste, I suppose.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Agent X
I did raise his base strength to 90. :D I know the write-up I posted is ugly to look at it but if you look closely you will see we are of like mind on his base strength.

Mea culpa; I didn't reread your character post, and misinterpreted your reason for increasing the Aid. :o

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Mea culpa; I didn't reread your character post, and misinterpreted your reason for increasing the Aid. :o I'm just glad to see there are people out there with similar opinions on scale as I have.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Morningstar70
So you're just going subjectively, not according to the strength scale which places "Lift 100 tons = STR 60"

However, I will admit, I did point out that STR 60 is to dead lift 100 tons, and Marvel measures it by Military Press 100 tons, which required 65 STR. If you are using the OHOTMU for your stats, you are using an arbitrary source. You are also arbitrarily assigning Champions tons to equal "Marvel tons." Read the comic books, look up real-world benchmarks, then tell me the Hulk can only lift 100 tons.:rolleyes:

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Morningstar70
I'm playing Devil's Advocate. :D

There's no way that Rogue can only lift 45 tons when he managed to stop a speeding passenger train.

What was the issue where Thor lifted the San Diego arch?

And who in their right mind could argue that Hercules COULDN'T drag Manhattan island around?

Hello.

Hercules. Held up the sky. Changed the course of mighty rivers with his bare hands. Glad to hear it. Yeah, my favorite example on Thor was when he towed a Rigellian ship moving FTL back toward Earth. The ship also appeared to be the size of a Destroyer. If I were to build that in Champions, I shudder to think what kind of strength it would require to perform such a feat.

[peterpumaa]

sorry if i am not doing this right but its my first post.

First of all i was just wodnering how come there was no level of growth or at the very least some Density Increase. Does anyone else think there should have been some?

Second will the full writeup as i saw in the begging of the post that the writeup was modifyed to fit a single page. Maybe the growth/DI wil showup there as well as the homing ability and anything else being talked about.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by peterpumaa
sorry if i am not doing this right but its my first post.

First of all i was just wodnering how come there was no level of growth or at the very least some Density Increase. Does anyone else think there should have been some?

Second will the full writeup as i saw in the begging of the post that the writeup was modifyed to fit a single page. Maybe the growth/DI wil showup there as well as the homing ability and anything else being talked about. They don't define a permanent status of being large or heavy in terms of a persistent growth or density increase power in 5E. It could be expressed as a disadvantage. In the Hulk's case it would be a small one, at best, about 5 points.

[peterpumaa]

ahhhhh ok thank you for explaining that. now i have all the more reason i can't wait till my 5th edition gets here.

[Bazza]

Originally posted by Agent X
Glad to hear it. Yeah, my favorite example on Thor was when he towed a Rigellian ship moving FTL back toward Earth. The ship also appeared to be the size of a Destroyer. If I were to build that in Champions, I shudder to think what kind of strength it would require to perform such a feat. As a fan of Thor, not enough. ;)

[Darren Watts]

Originally posted by i8flesh

I'm not sure who at each company did the specific write-ups. If Darren did the Hulk, he is quite a fan boy, lots of small details. A 648 pt Hulk is quite impressive.



Guilty as charged. I love ol' Lettuce Lips, especially the '70s Defenders version. dw

[dbcowboy]

Originally posted by Agent X
They don't define a permanent status of being large or heavy in terms of a persistent growth or density increase power in 5E. It could be expressed as a disadvantage. In the Hulk's case it would be a small one, at best, about 5 points.

I'm still very new to 5E Champs but I thought that this situation what the Inherent advantage was for. Can someone elaborate more on the reason why you wouldn't use it for a character like the Hulk?

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by dbcowboy
I'm still very new to 5E Champs but I thought that this situation what the Inherent advantage was for. Can someone elaborate more on the reason why you wouldn't use it for a character like the Hulk?

The size changing Powers are a package of benefits and drawbacks, and sometimes you may not want your character to have all of them, particularly if he or she is always of a certain size. Defining the character's size as a combination of discreet abilities and Disadvantages allows you to tailor your character more to your liking.

I do think that Steve Long's dissuasion against buying Growth or Shrinking Inherent comes across a bit strong, but my impression was that he was trying to break people of the habit of thinking that that was how it had to be done. For my part I have no problem with players buying those Powers Inherent if they prefer the whole package.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
The size changing Powers are a package of benefits and drawbacks, and sometimes you may not want your character to have all of them, particularly if he or she is always of a certain size. Defining the character's size as a combination of discreet abilities and Disadvantages allows you to tailor your character more to your liking.

I do think that Steve Long's dissuasion against buying Growth or Shrinking Inherent comes across a bit strong, but my impression was that he was trying to break people of the habit of thinking that that was how it had to be done. For my part I have no problem with players buying those Powers Inherent if they prefer the whole package. Yeah, but Steve Long's strategy may be better for min/maxers anyway - unless they are trying to pull some cheese with frameworks/limitations. Instead of having points eaten up by advantages, you just buy the effects normally. You get to place the negative effects on your character in the Disads so that's one less psych lim or vulnerability. It may free up a good 10-30 points for you to buy some stuff you usually have to wait until you get experience for.

[Enforcer84]

I really liked the Hulk write up Darren! It was about what I would expect, even got the astral sight in there.

now mine has a base Str of 100 and a max of 250 but that's just my world.