How hard is your science ficiton?

[tkdguy]

This article (http://www.kheper.net/topics/scifi/grading.html) talks about how hard or soft a science fiction story or rpg campaign is. It's an interesting read.

[Vondy]

My SF games tended to be in the very hard and plausible ranges, but I'm happy to play in games anywhere on the hard-end of the scale, and I like several space opera settings. But soft science fiction and space opera is a completely different genre, in my opinion. Its more like "space fantasy."

[keithcurtis]

My Solar Colonies game was Diamond Hard throughout most of its run. I had no artificial gravity, ships used fusion-based reaction drives, radiation shielding was not absolute, No FTL, no aliens, no ray guns (well, OK, lasers).
Since the later part of the story was about First Contact and an eventual interstellar community, I would say it wound up as Firm. My FTL was arranged as to make paradox and time travel as minimized as possible.

Keith "and no magic nanotechnology, except for one very important extrasolar instance" Curtis

[L. Marcus]

. . . I'd say that the only non-hard element in my campaign would be the gravitic warp drive -- all other technologies I think could well exist in three hundred years time. Uplifted chimps, gorillas and orangs; very controlled nanomacinery (takes a long time to do their thing, requires massive power, and takes a very specifically controlled environment); backpack lasers and particel guns; powered armor and robots using artificial "muscles" . . .

[Vondy]

Kieth: I always wanted to see more Solar Colonies material on your site. Hard SF role playing games seem to be the exception as opposed to the rule due to the popularity of Soft SF in media, and its nice to see the ideas people come up with.

I had an idea for a character driven Hard SF game in a unviverse where man had spread out into the stars, but without FTL. I'll have to pull my thoughts together and post it.

[tkdguy]

I like the Solar Colonies too. Definitely it's a useful resource for my hard sf campaign in the works.

[Thia Halmades]

This reminds me. I have to write for Tuesday.

[Curufea]

I think Space Opera is more Pulp than Space Fantasy. And tends to have far less magic (and more technobabble)

[bigdamnhero]

I tend to look at hard-vs-soft a little differently. I'm less worried about what "speculative" technologies exist than I am about how those technologies are used. Need a few currently-believed-to-be-impossible technologues in order to tell the stories you want? I'm cool. But to call it Hard SF those technologies should behave in a consistant and plausible manner. In other words you can have hyperspace travel, as long as it works according to a defined and internally-consistant set of rules; meanwhile, ships in normal space still move according to normal physics (simplified enough that it doesn't get in the way of good gaming, of course).

Actually, I've played in some excellent "realistic" fantasy games based on similar principles. Basically we sat down and said "OK, let's suppose there's this force called magic - what can/can't it do, and how does it work?" Anything that didn't fit into this "system" of magic was handled semi-realistically. Works just fine IMX, tho of course not to everyone's taste.

[Lemurion]

Oddly enough, I use yet another version of hard vs. soft. I also take the subject matter into account; ie is it about the hard vs the soft sciences? Something that's mostly about physics and the other hard sciences is vastly different than the so-called soft SF that comes out of the new wave in the sixties that downplayed physics in favor of things like societal change.

As to my own writings-- the one SF novel I've written (now in the edit phase) is unabashedly space opera.

[bigdamnhero]

Oddly enough, I use yet another version of hard vs. soft. I also take the subject matter into account; ie is it about the hard vs the soft sciences? Something that's mostly about physics and the other hard sciences is vastly different than the so-called soft SF that comes out of the new wave in the sixties that downplayed physics in favor of things like societal change.
For written fiction I would agree with this. For gaming, tho, games that are about science don't interest me at all.

[LunaRagno]

I have a very simple rule: the science should be hard enough disbelief is only suspended, soft enough the characters are more interesting than the setting.

Where that point/those points is/are depends on the group of players. ;)

[Savinien]

Solar Colonies FTMFW.

[Springald Jack]

It depends. I like Transhuman Space, but I also like Star Trek.

[Nolgroth]

Not very "hard" scifi at all. I nod towards physics every now and then, but mostly I don't even mention it. I suppose with the inclusion of alien races, artificial gravity and hyperdimensional FTL, that blows the hard scifi thing out of the water. I will even venture to say that the migration towards space opera will continue as the game evolves.

A pinch of Dark Champions, a cup of Star HERO, a dash of Call of Cthulhu, a smidgeon of Shadowrun. Have to see how this recipe turns out.

[moquif]

I'm still planning my sci-fi superheroes campaign. Since there are superpowers, it's not "hard" from that alone. Beyond that, I'm not paying much attention since it would intefere with the setting and the plot.

I wanted advanced technology without space travel. So I decided radio only had a limited range. What would cause it to have a limited range? I put the planet in a nova orbiting a young star. This gave me the additional bonus of hiding the planet from the greater universe which is part of the plot. Hard science takes a back seat in a way like Pulp era novels.

The overall plot is that a century ago this world discovered it was a colony world (it found the orignal ship) and spent the past 100 years reverse engineering the technolgy and the PCs are the away team on their first spaceship. Their mission is to find out who started this colony and what happened to them. They'll be discovering a larger universe filled with strange and wonderous things. They will find friends and make horrible enemies. One day they may find the reason behind their lives and how important that answer is.

[austenandrews]

To be honest, I don't care for a lot of "diamond hard" SF as it tends to adhere to current knowledge rather more slavishly than I think is realistic. It can make for a thought-provoking read, but I'm not sure I'd want to spend a lot of game time worrying about details analogous to limiting the speed of a 21st century naval vessel based on the max feasible sail area given 18th century textile science.

[egaroadkill]

I run one that’s using approximately the same technologies as GDW’s 2300AD; no artificial gravity, some lasers, not quite AI, very limited nano, limited cyber silliness. It’s pretty much today’s tech but with a warp drive. Also, Kirk or Zap Brannagen would have a hard time cross breeding with the alien babe's.

[tkdguy]

The campaign I've been developing started with the 2300 AD star systems and the Cold Navy starships. I had decided to develop my own history. I originally decided to use the Alcubierre warp drive and think of some way to simulate gravity on the starships.

I threw out a few genre conventions from the start. I decided not to have aliens because I didn't want to develop new species or use already published ones. Besdes, I wanted to concentrate on humanity exploring outer space. Ditto androids; there are robots, but they are drones that are programmed to do a certain task or are guided via remote control. So you won't see R2D2, let alone Commander Data. And while I can see lasers being developed in the near future, I decided they were too cliche. So I dropped them in favor of rail guns instead.

Then my science fiction got harder. Deciding I wanted to play a near future setting, I dropped FTL and artificial gravity altogether, limiting the scope to our solar system. I also decided to limit the majority of the available tech (if not all of it) to items currently being developed, or at least feasible by today's technology level.

As it stands, beanstalks may be the next ones on the chopping block, followed by naval-style starship combat. The problem is, that was one of the major premises of the game. Still, I may opt for a realistic combat scenario for a near future campaign, and use the starship combat for the future of that campaign (ie same universe about 50-100 years down the road).

[tkdguy]

Here's some stuff for hard SF writers and GMs.

Hard Science Fiction Tools (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8611/hard-sf.htm)

At least I spelled "fiction" correctly this time around! ;)

[Captain Obvious]

I run one that’s using approximately the same technologies as GDW’s 2300AD; no artificial gravity, some lasers, not quite AI, very limited nano, limited cyber silliness. It’s pretty much today’s tech but with a warp drive. Also, Kirk or Zap Brannagen would have a hard time cross breeding with the alien babe's.

I'm not too sure Kirk would try with the aliens from 2300AD. He wasn't that kinked.

[Lemurion]

Right now the science in my fiction is pretty soft.

I'm doing Pulp Supers with Zeppelins that carry "Martian" Tripods. It's seriously cool and a lot of fun, but the science is pretty arbitrary.

What it does do is completely fit the tone of the late thirties over the top pulps.

[LunaRagno]

Right now the science in my fiction is pretty soft.

I'm doing Pulp Supers with Zeppelins that carry "Martian" Tripods. It's seriously cool and a lot of fun, but the science is pretty arbitrary.

What it does do is completely fit the tone of the late thirties over the top pulps.

Martian zeppelins!?!? :eek:

:hail: Wonderful idea! :hail: I worship your imagination! :hail:

I absolutely must use that idea some time.

[bigdamnhero]

Martian zeppelins!?!? :eek:

:hail: Wonderful idea! :hail: I worship your imagination! :hail:

I absolutely must use that idea some time.
If I ever run another Ace Cobalt in the 21st Century game, you bet it's gonna have Martian zeppelins! Repped!

[Hyper-Man]

I find it interresting that Larry Niven's work is on the low to medium end of Hard according the article.

I think Niven approaches storytelling a little different than most of the other writers mentioned. When begining the writing process He deliberately asks one or two "what if...?" questions and lets the story unfold based on the consequences of the speculative science introduced. Mote in God's Eye is a great examples of this and the handwavium/plot device FTL drive used in that universe is central to the story.

[LunaRagno]

If I ever run another Ace Cobalt in the 21st Century game, you bet it's gonna have Martian zeppelins! Repped!

I had to check my "control panel" to be sure you had not repped me. ;)

I love the name of your campaign. Quite evocative of the movie serials. :D

[That Masked Man]

I find it interresting that Larry Niven's work is on the low to medium end of Hard according the article.

I think Niven approaches storytelling a little different than most of the other writers mentioned. When begining the writing process He deliberately asks one or two "what if...?" questions and lets the story unfold based on the consequences of the speculative science introduced. Mote in God's Eye is a great examples of this and the handwavium/plot device FTL drive used in that universe is central to the story.

I think Known Space and the Mote novels would be considered less than hard SF because they have FTL, which current science says is either impossible or would cause paradoxes. Its the same reason Asimov's books are also not considered hard.

For me at least, the big gap in realism is between stories like those by Niven or Asimov on one hand, which try to make realistic technology within the confines of what is required for the story, and most TV and movie SF (and many books as well) which just throw in technology for the "cool" factor on the other. Gripping hand - Go with whatever makes the best story, which in TV and especially movies usually means don't bother explaining on screen, but in books you can do more.

Yes I did have to get in a reference to "gripping hand". ;)

[keithcurtis]

Known Space is filled with magic tech which is never explained to any degree. Stasis Fields, Monofilament wire, superconductor cloth, magically-efficient fusion drives, General Product Hulls, Teleportation Booths, Stepping Disks, Skrill, Planets as spaceships, Psionics. Eventually Niven had to give it up because he had written himself into a technological corner (read "Safe at Any Speed").
I reiterate what Doc Anomaly took from me to use as a sig for several months:

Larry Niven is often cited as being "hard SF", but really, his science is so rubber you could carve it into superballs.

Keith "I love the stories, don't get me wrong" Curtis

[AmadanNaBriona]

Known Space is filled with magic tech which is never explained to any degree. Stasis Fields, Monofilament wire, superconductor cloth, magically-efficient fusion drives, General Product Hulls, Teleportation Booths, Stepping Disks, Skrill, Planets as spaceships, Psionics. Eventually Niven had to give it up because he had written himself into a technological corner (read "Safe at Any Speed").
I reiterate what Doc Anomaly took from me to use as a sig for several months:


Keith "I love the stories, don't get me wrong" Curtis

Nice quote :D

Most of the Niven books I read are his collaborations with his various author buddies (Pournelle and Barnes come to mind) and they seem to be harder in tone than the stuff he writes solo, IMO.

[That Masked Man]

Known Space is filled with magic tech which is never explained to any degree. Stasis Fields, Monofilament wire, superconductor cloth, magically-efficient fusion drives, General Product Hulls, Teleportation Booths, Stepping Disks, Skrill, Planets as spaceships, Psionics. Eventually Niven had to give it up because he had written himself into a technological corner (read "Safe at Any Speed").
I reiterate what Doc Anomaly took from me to use as a sig for several months:


Keith "I love the stories, don't get me wrong" Curtis

Thats the problem with doing too many "Here is a new piece of tech, lets see how it affects people" stories - which a lot of Niven stories are at least to some extent. The supertech accumulates as the number of advanced races do, so the Puppeteers intoduced GP Hulls, the Slavers stasis fields, and the Ringworld Pak Skrith. Add this to the human tech (which is generally better explained) and you end up with a sufficiently advanced technology which becomes indistinguishable from magic.

In the Mote universe this hasn't happened so much but it is still not considered hard SF because it has FTL and ships with shields, although both are pretty well explained IMO.

[TheRavenIs]

If I want a game to be super-heroic, then the science tends to be rubber.
If I want a game to semi-super, then the science tends to be form-rubber. mostly real with the impossiable.
If I want a game to heroric, then it depends on do I want to to be local or galatic spanning, then it varies.