What was that? Elvis weapon in LOTR movie.

[Herolover]

At the beginning of the first LOTR movie the Elves use some kind of staff, sword weapon. What was it and how would you make it up?

[Lord Liaden]

This will be no help to you, but I can't help myself:

Karate with Weapon Element: Guitar.

Sorry. :o

[joen00b]

It looked like a small pole arm, right? In reality, Shaka Zulu made a weapon similar to this rather popular, it had a short sword blade attached to a small (3-4') pole or staff. I forget the actual name for this. Use Polearm rules with shortened reach on the weapons, that should give you a good template to create it from, the weapon only being 5' or so in length, 3' being staff, 2' being blade.

If I had my book at work, I'd assist you more...

[Fitz]

(Assume obligatory Elvis-related joke here)

The closest real-life weapon I can think of would be the nagamaki, a Japanese very long-hilted sword. Not really a sword, but too short to be counted as a polearm.

[Markdoc]

The chinese had a variety of weapons built around the same principle such as the beloved "Bandit-encampment Sword" - basically a swordblade on a short stick.

Not really suprising, since the Chinese tried pretty much every combination of blade and handle one could reasonably use without losing too many fingers in the process.

I'd give it the same damage as a bastard Sword (1 1/2 d6 HKA) and class it as two-handed which would drop the STR MIN down a bit: about right for those skinny elves :-)

cheers, Mark

[AlHazred]

I believe there's a picture of this in the Lord of the Rings Visual Companion. I'll have to check when I get home...

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
This will be no help to you, but I can't help myself:

Karate with Weapon Element: Guitar. I had been going to write up something very long and very silly, but since you beat me to it I've saved a lot of trouble.

Thankyouverymuch. :D

[Bartman]

According to a production staff interview I saw a couple of years back, the weapon was a stylized version of a broad bladed spear / short polearm used by the 2nd century Dacians. I made some notes on at the time. Let me see if I can find them anywhere.

[Bartman]

OK I found some references. It was the Dacian Falx.

Time Period: 1st or 2nd century B.C. - 1st or 2nd century A.D.
Origin: Dacia
Description: Sword consisting of a curved, single-edged blade with a long wooden hilt. It has been described as a scythe.
Use: Used by Celts and Germanic tribes as a slashing weapon; used with two hands. It was very effective and feared by opposing soldiers.
Notes: The Roman Manica (Segmented Arm Guard) was developed to defend against the weapon.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to find a picture online.

[Killer Shrike]

The Naginata is somewhat similar, but not as curvy. I would treat it as a Bastard sword.

[BlackSword]

The chinese weapon is the kwan do, though a quick search also called something similar a chinese two handed sword. The weapon is about five to six feet long and half is a large nasty looking blade, and the other half is a long handle ending a ring.

http://www.takwah.com/weapons/

Guess its similar to a bastard sword as far as strength, but not something that could probably be used a single handed weapon.

[C_Zeree]

I spent so long trying to look this weapon up when the first movie came out. I was so enamored with it, but my searching was futile.

At first I thought they were using something similar to this blade.
http://www.mwart.com/product.asp?pid=1030&cat=30&subcat=Y

However the hilt they have is much longer.
As I have not seen pictures of any of the other weapons described, I still think it is closest to the nagamaki, or the double hand sword. The chinese sword is far to large though, the elven blade was thin like that of a kitana.

[Herolover]

First. Thanks for everyone that has answered my question. Or tried to. This will teach everyone not type late at night.

I figured it was a special weapon used with the martial art: Rock and Roll singing;)

Actually, I just thought what I saw of the weapon was cool and since I am going to be starting a new fantasy campaign...

[AlHazred]

Well, they do in fact have a drawing of the weapon I think your talking about in The Art of the Fellowship of the Ring. They also have a photo in The Fellowship of the Ring Visual Companion of an elven army with these weapons.

I've scanned them in, but they're huge. I'll email them to you, if you want. I have a high-speed connection; it'll handle it.

[Trebuchet]

I would say these weapons are just curved swords which the designers of LOTR wanted to look "inhuman" for the elves to carry. They seem to be used more like short two-handed swords than like pole arms. (Perversely, the producers of LOTR gave the goblins straight meat cleaver-like swords, when JRR Tolkein stated they prefered curved blades such as scimitars. Go figure.)

The Zulu weapon is called an "assegai," and they were basically used as thrusting swords, although there was enough blade to slash with as well. They were an obvious development for a warrior culture with a limited amount of steel available but plenty of wood for hafts.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by C_Zeree
I spent so long trying to look this weapon up when the first movie came out. I was so enamored with it, but my searching was futile.

At first I thought they were using something similar to this blade.
http://www.mwart.com/product.asp?pid=1030&cat=30&subcat=Y


That's really pretty. Getting one of those for my birthday would make me one happy dude.

If you're just looking for stats I would give them the same as a bastard sword.

[Vondy]

I think the closest real world term for this sort of blade is a "sea sword", which is a cross between a cutlass and scimitar.

[tkdguy]

I think that sword would qualify as a saber or a scimitar. By the way, if you do purchase it, don't use it for test cutting. Chances are, it's made of stainless steel, which means it's brittle. Also the tang (the inside of a sword's handle) is of "rat-tail construction" rather than being a full tang. That means it's unbalanced and weak. Play with that sword for a while, and you'll have a very expensive peace of junk.

[MarkusDark]

When I saw Lord of the Rings and those Elven blades, I giggled as I had been wanting to create something like that for a while. My original idea was to be able to draw a regular katana from its sheath, then be able to attach the sword hilt to the sheath and make a mini-naginata.

I took a similar design and made a LARP weapon for my Dark Elf character. It is basically a sword blade on a 3 foot stick. ;)

[Old Man]

Originally posted by tkdguy
I think that sword would qualify as a saber or a scimitar. By the way, if you do purchase it, don't use it for test cutting. Chances are, it's made of stainless steel, which means it's brittle. Also the tang (the inside of a sword's handle) is of "rat-tail construction" rather than being a full tang. That means it's unbalanced and weak. Play with that sword for a while, and you'll have a very expensive peace of junk.

That's why you get and use this one instead. It's listed under functtional and it does have a full tang.

http://www.mwart.com/product.asp?pid=913&cat=41&subcat=Y

[gewing]

well, at 4 pounds, the "warbrand" is heavier than most real bastard swords.

Check
http://www.allsaintsblades.com/index.htm

for some realistic weight swords.
or
http://swordforum.com/

for general information.

Someone passed the links to me, now I do the same. :)

[Markdoc]

>>>well, at 4 pounds, the "warbrand" is heavier than most real bastard swords.<<<

Ahhh, such confidence :-)

Having spent some time recently at the royal military museum here in Copenhagen, hefting the *real* things, I should point out that the modern replicas made for cutting tameshigiri have significantly lighter blades and hilts than (some, at least) real made-for-killing-armoured-folks blades.

There is, of course a great deal of variation in the "real thing".

4 pounds is at the heavy end of the scale, but it is not completely unreasonable.

cheers, Mark

[tkdguy]

4 pounds is a bit heavy for a sword, considering rapiers and long swords (broad sword is a misnomer; it actually refers to a naval sword in later times) weigh at 3 pounds. Not significantly heavy at first, but when you've been swinging it for a while, you will feel it.

When I do kumdo, I use a sword that is heavier than the other swords. Trust me, I feel it after a while.

Still, it's rare to find a sword that's both full tang and made of high carbon steel. Just don't get into any swordfights unless you're immortal.

[gewing]

I did say "most" :)

Sure real blades varied a lot, but...


Originally posted by Markdoc
>>>well, at 4 pounds, the "warbrand" is heavier than most real bastard swords.<<<

Ahhh, such confidence :-)

Having spent some time recently at the royal military museum here in Copenhagen, hefting the *real* things, I should point out that the modern replicas made for cutting tameshigiri have significantly lighter blades and hilts than (some, at least) real made-for-killing-armoured-folks blades.

There is, of course a great deal of variation in the "real thing".

4 pounds is at the heavy end of the scale, but it is not completely unreasonable.

cheers, Mark

[C_Zeree]

Check out the falx, bout middle of the page. Tetsubo put a strange kink in it, but it is close to the sword. Also. Plus Tetsubo does great weapon illustrations.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=29655&perpage=40&pagenumber=14

[Galadorn]

Originally posted by Herolover
At the beginning of the first LOTR movie the Elves use some kind of staff, sword weapon. What was it and how would you make it up?

According to the Topic name of this thread. What was that "Elvis" weapon.

I think its the Guitar of Blue Shade. They give the wielder +3 to OCV rolls, +1d6N to attacks and +1d6N vs. dark races.

[TechnoGothic]

Now i'd love to see this in a game, or in real life anyday...

http://www.mwart.com/images/p/Movie_Replicas_Sword_of_the_Scorpion_M3359_780.jpg

[Galadorn]

Originally posted by TechnoGothic
Now i'd love to see this in a game, or in real life anyday...

http://www.mwart.com/images/p/Movie_Replicas_Sword_of_the_Scorpion_M3359_780.jpg

Very similar to a Kopesh, or Egyptian sword.

[Bartman]

Originally posted by C_Zeree
Check out the falx, bout middle of the page. Tetsubo put a strange kink in it, but it is close to the sword. Also. Plus Tetsubo does great weapon illustrations.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=29655&perpage=40&pagenumber=14

Thank you. I looked forever to find an image of a falx earlier. The kink does look a bit odd, but I have no doubt that there probably was one with something like that. Most pre-industrial weapons did have a great deal of variations on a basic form.

[Libris]

Check out "Weapons and Warfare" by Chris Smith for LOTR. It is by far the coolest of all the movie books with photographs of virtually all the weapons and armour from the films.

[RadeFox]

I know Tolkien said goblins and orcs preffered curved blades, but after seeign the movies, I am heavily inclined to adopt the simple cleaver aspect for them from now on. Basically it boils down for me to skill/time for crafting. A curved blade is harder to craft well, and takes more time and effort from the smith. A simple chopper is quicker to forge, and requires little effort. Much closer to the mindset of most goblins and orcs.

Being that orcs are twisted elves, I would however still allow for that rare twisted/fallen sindar to still partake of his now twisted love of the forgecraft, and have a few, 'prized' curved, wickedly pointed/unusual blades be in the hands of those orcs strong enough to keep such a prize. This still helps keep them the 'favored' weapons of the goblinoids, but also helps maintain a higher level of 'suspension of disbelief' for me, and hopefully my players!

[Isaiah_26_4]

Chello!

I would tempted, if the wepaon is based off of the falx, to give it AP. It appeared liked to shear through Roman lorica like it wasn't even there (leading to the development of scale and lamellar armors).

Tony

[RenEnthusiast]

The High Elven sword is one unique looking weapon. I´ve been looking for the replica a couple years back with no luck. :thumbdown ----I guess they were discontinued but according to this site (RealmCollections) you can pre-order one for this summer.

The direct link to the sword is:http://www.realmcollections.com/p2221/high-elven-warrior-display-sword.html

[sbarron]

I know Tolkien said goblins and orcs preffered curved blades, but after seeign the movies, I am heavily inclined to adopt the simple cleaver aspect for them from now on. Basically it boils down for me to skill/time for crafting. A curved blade is harder to craft well, and takes more time and effort from the smith. A simple chopper is quicker to forge, and requires little effort. Much closer to the mindset of most goblins and orcs.

Being that orcs are twisted elves, I would however still allow for that rare twisted/fallen sindar to still partake of his now twisted love of the forgecraft, and have a few, 'prized' curved, wickedly pointed/unusual blades be in the hands of those orcs strong enough to keep such a prize. This still helps keep them the 'favored' weapons of the goblinoids, but also helps maintain a higher level of 'suspension of disbelief' for me, and hopefully my players!I haven't seen the movies in a while, but I think it was Saruman's Uruk-hai that used the cleaver like straight swords. I'm pretty sure their's were the swords being forged in the movies. I'll have to go back to check to see if regular orcs appear to prefer curved blades.

[Bismark]

Those Elven weapons are like a falx in reverse - the falx curves forward (the joys of pull-cutting and using the point like a pick), whereas the Elven weapons curve backwards; the nearest 'real-world' weapon I have seen to them (though nowhere near as flamboyant in style) was in the Osprey book 'Medieval Chinese Armies 1260-1520' (Men-at-Arms Series 251, bottom of page 7, second weapon from the right).

[Shadowsoul]

Seems similar to a Japanese naginata to me.

[Curufea]

Very similar to a Kopesh, or Egyptian sword.

Except it isn't made out of bronze.

[Rage]

key term: similar.

[Curufea]

key term: similar.

Key information: they were bronze.

I have this idea that giving people information they didn't have previously may actually be helpful. But hey, if you want to take every comment as some kind of personal attack, that certainly isn't my problem.

[Savinien]

Key information: they were bronze.

I have this idea that giving people information they didn't have previously may actually be helpful. But hey, if you want to take every comment as some kind of personal attack, that certainly isn't my problem.

So you're saying they aren't similar?

[Curufea]

So you're saying they aren't similar?

Incorrect. That isn't what I'm saying at all. Similarity is not an issue, not what I was talking about, nor is it even relevant to the conversation at all. However, thank you for taking part in this thread anyway :)

Perhaps I should be more concise to avoid confusion:-

The Egyptian ancient swords were similar to the image posted earlier, except they are bronze.

Does that help?

What I mean is - for those who didn't know - the way the image differs from actual Egyptian swords is in the metal that they are made of. The Egyptian swords were made of bronze, the one in the image is not. So in all aspects other than the material of their creation, they are similar.

[Hyper-Man]

Will a moderator please correct the title of this thread?

Every time I see it I have an urge to pull out a LOTR dvd and look for blue suede shoes! :D

[Bismark]

Will a moderator please correct the title of this thread?

Every time I see it I have an urge to pull out a LOTR dvd and look for blue suede shoes! :D

I was seriously considering building "Blue Suede Shoes" in HERO Designer as a magic "Elvis" weapon and posting it to this thread - before I came over all dull and sensible...:)

[Theron]

It's very similar to the Greek Rhomphaia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/Rhomphaia.jpg

http://www.satrapa1.com/articulos/antiguedad/Raphia/image027.jpg

Interestingly enough, a similar weapon appears in some 13th century illuminated manuscripts, most notably, the Maciejowski Bible, which is notable for its very accurate depictions of clothing, armour, military hardware, etc.

http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf10/otm10va&b.gif

(The figure near the center, wearing the brown surcote, wielding the weapon two-handed.)

My attempts at finding a proper name for the weapon have never borne fruit. I do find it interesting to note that in medieval French, the word 'glaive' seems to have been used interchangeably to describe a pole arm or a sword.

[Bismark]

It's very similar to the Greek Rhomphaia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/Rhomphaia.jpg

http://www.satrapa1.com/articulos/antiguedad/Raphia/image027.jpg

Interestingly enough, a similar weapon appears in some 13th century illuminated manuscripts, most notably, the Maciejowski Bible, which is notable for its very accurate depictions of clothing, armour, military hardware, etc.

http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images/maciejowski/leaf10/otm10va&b.gif

(The figure near the center, wearing the brown surcote, wielding the weapon two-handed.)

My attempts at finding a proper name for the weapon have never borne fruit. I do find it interesting to note that in medieval French, the word 'glaive' seems to have been used interchangeably to describe a pole arm or a sword.

Nice find Theron - that cool Maciejowski Bible picture, which reminded me of a weapon that I should have remembered earlier - the faus or faussal (to use the French names - oddly enough, derived from the Latin falx [odd, that...;)]).

It was like the weapon the mounted character in the brown surcoat is using, but usually looking even more crude (a wider blade to make up for the inferior steel) and used by infantry.

There is an line drawing of a figure using one of these weapons in Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300 (by Ian Heath, published Wargames Research Group), page 85, figure 28, apparently also based on an illustration in the Maciejowski Bible (sometimes the weapon is depicted with a grip shaped like an umbrella handle).

A very similar weapon, whose 'native' name I do not know, was used in Spain during the same period.

[Theron]

I know that one well. Spathologists call it a form of Falchion, which makes sense given the French name. Not sure what it was called in Spanish; I'm out of the loop with swordplay re-enactors these days, and my expert on things Spanish is out in California now.

There used to be a great website for a group in England called c.1265 that had a photograph of a fellow carrying a reproduction of the longer pole-sword-whatever, but the site's been down for a couple of years now. :(