Another Mac User chips in

[Dr.Device]

Hi folks,

I finally got Hero Designer a couple of days ago. The various methods posted here to make it work under OS X worked, but they weren't quite what I was looking for, so I rolled my own. I used Apple's dev tools to make a basic Java application bundle, then replaced its guts with Hero Designer. So far, it works just fine.

I wanted to share this with other Mac users, but obviously I can't post Hero Designer here. So, what I did was write an applescript to copy the guts of an existing Hero Designer installation into a prepped application bundle.

The file is too big to attach here, but I posted it on my .mac homepage (http://homepage.mac.com/johnnieb/FileSharing4.html).

Keep in mind that this is not endorsed by Hero Games in any way and won't magically make Hero Designer be officially supported on Mac OS X. It'll just make it look a little more like a Mac app.

have fun,
bjb

[Simon]

Dr. D....drop me an email at some point....I may have you run some tests once v2 gets a bit further along.

If you're willing, it'll mean an advance copy/preview of v2....and may allow me to get it tweaked so that we can release it for Mac ;)

Thanks!

p.s. you can reach me at support@herodesigner.com

[Tasha]

Thanks,

It seems to work much better. I don't seem to be having that interface bug anymore

ie. where you close a window and the window stays open but not usable.

Thanks,

Tasha :)

[Dr.Device]

I'm glad it's working for you.

Now that you mention it, I've only gotten the orphaned window once or twice since packaging up the application. I'm not sure why this would make a difference, but I won't complain.

[DocMan]

Thanks, Dr. Device. It works a treat. It would be nice if we could use the regular internal update mechanism. I don't know if that's not working due to my Firewall or the fact I'm running on an unsupported platform.

It would be nice if when I quit it would prompt me to save changes. I'm not sure if that's in the Java or the shell. I've lost a couple of fledgeling characters because I've gotten distracted and didn't specificly save.

Doc

[Simon]

Originally posted by DocMan
Thanks, Dr. Device. It works a treat. It would be nice if we could use the regular internal update mechanism. I don't know if that's not working due to my Firewall or the fact I'm running on an unsupported platform.

It would be nice if when I quit it would prompt me to save changes. I'm not sure if that's in the Java or the shell. I've lost a couple of fledgeling characters because I've gotten distracted and didn't specificly save.

Doc
Both of those are system-level things, from the sound of it (crappy implementation of Java by Apple).

The prompt to save is something which is captured during the window closing event. If you're not getting it, then it sounds like Apple decided to ignore that little event and just kill off Java instead, preventing the code from doing anything (it <b>wants</b> to warn you, but its too busy being killed by Apple to do it).

[BenKimball]

Originally posted by Dr.Device
I finally got Hero Designer a couple of days ago. The various methods posted here to make it work under OS X worked, but they weren't quite what I was looking for, so I rolled my own. I used Apple's dev tools to make a basic Java application bundle, then replaced its guts with Hero Designer. So far, it works just fine.

This rocks. Thanks Dr. D! So far it's working fine on my machine as well. I'll post again if I notice anything odd.

It's so much faster than running Virtual PC! Yay! :)

Cheers,
Ben

[Tasha]

Originally posted by dsimon
Both of those are system-level things, from the sound of it (crappy implementation of Java by Apple).

The prompt to save is something which is captured during the window closing event. If you're not getting it, then it sounds like Apple decided to ignore that little event and just kill off Java instead, preventing the code from doing anything (it <b>wants</b> to warn you, but its too busy being killed by Apple to do it).

I know that you are bitter about Apple's efforts with Java. Perhaps I am a little sensitive about this kind of thing.

But, the Sarcasm just annoys me. I don't like windows, Linux just isn't finished enough to be used by regular people. So could you tone down the sarcasm some? If you want to blame someone, why don't you blame Sun for not deigning to even bother porting <b>their</b> Java engine to apple?

You seem to get real put out when anyone even seems to in someway suggest that your code isn't the best. I think that with some exceptions that we all here just want to help make the product a better one. Please treat us and the machines that we use every day with the same respect that you want us to treat you.

Thank you,

Tasha
just another sensative Mac Cultist ;)

[keithcurtis]

Diplomatically put, Tasha.


Keith "Mac"Curtis

[AlbertDeschesne]

Hear, hear.

What I wonder, is why programs like PCGen seem to work just fine, but HD has all these interface problems. Are they just not using ALL of the new 1.4 stuff and HD is?

[Simon]

Originally posted by AlbertDeschesne
Hear, hear.

What I wonder, is why programs like PCGen seem to work just fine, but HD has all these interface problems. Are they just not using ALL of the new 1.4 stuff and HD is?
HD is using a number of features that are not used in PCGen...that's easy. PCGen may also have tweaked their code to get around some of the issues that Apple has.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Tasha
I know that you are bitter about Apple's efforts with Java. Perhaps I am a little sensitive about this kind of thing.

But, the Sarcasm just annoys me. I don't like windows, Linux just isn't finished enough to be used by regular people. So could you tone down the sarcasm some? If you want to blame someone, why don't you blame Sun for not deigning to even bother porting <b>their</b> Java engine to apple?

You seem to get real put out when anyone even seems to in someway suggest that your code isn't the best. I think that with some exceptions that we all here just want to help make the product a better one. Please treat us and the machines that we use every day with the same respect that you want us to treat you.

Thank you,

Tasha
just another sensative Mac Cultist ;)
Sun generally doesn't port Java, they rely on the OSes to do so....Blackdown wrote the (quite excellent) Linux port....I'm not sure on the Windows side (the JVM for Windows originally came out when the source code for Windows was still sealed). Sun maintains the language itself.

I apologize, but Apple has consistently let me down. They've got a nice operating system and they were showing sincere promise of making up for their truly dismal past performance on Java when they released OSX....they were making all of the right moves and were making lots of statements to actively attract Java developers to the system. Then they ceased to do anything, falling right back into old habits. Look how long it took them to even release 1.4.1....and it doesn't work. They pushed it out before the work was complete because they were already about a year behind the rest of the world.

Sorry, but Apple has let me down one too many times.

If they get off their collective asses and release a version of 1.4.1 (or, heck, even implement a release of 1.4.2 that actually works) then I will happily release HD for the platform. But I don't see that happening in the near future.

[Jade]

I have to agree with Dan about Apple. I love them and I sell and support them. But they will let you down every now and then. Still, I will always prefer working with an Apple CPU over any PC. I do have an Athlon that is really nothing more than a game machine. With all that said, Dr. D was able to pull off a good implementation with what Apple has. Thanks to him! I am hoping we see more innovations working with what we have now and we can only hope Apple will deliver better later.

[Robert Harrison]

Originally posted by Dr.Device

Now that you mention it, I've only gotten the orphaned window once or twice since packaging up the application. I'm not sure why this would make a difference, but I won't complain.

My experience seems to be different. After packaging HD with Dr. Device's applescript, I'm still getting orphaned windows at what seems like the same rate as before. Also, unlike DocMan, HD prompts me to save altered characters when I exit the program. I find that I have to quit and restart HD every 30 min or so because the program slows to a crawl.

Still, as Ben pointed out, HD runs faster directly on OSX than under Windows emulation with Virtual PC. I hope that something can be done to get HD v. 2 to run more smoothly on OSX (bad Java implementation or not).

[Simon]

Originally posted by Robert Harrison
My experience seems to be different. After packaging HD with Dr. Device's applescript, I'm still getting orphaned windows at what seems like the same rate as before. Also, unlike DocMan, HD prompts me to save altered characters when I exit the program. I find that I have to quit and restart HD every 30 min or so because the program slows to a crawl.

Still, as Ben pointed out, HD runs faster directly on OSX than under Windows emulation with Virtual PC. I hope that something can be done to get HD v. 2 to run more smoothly on OSX (bad Java implementation or not).
Until Apple gets their act together and releases a version of Java 1.4.1 or better that functions the way it should, then there is nothing to be done on OSX (officially). In other words: I have no interest in trying to work out how to "code around" a poor Java implementation when there are plenty of other things that I can be working on in the app.

The problem is not an issue with the code, but with Apple. Until they fix it, there is nothing to be done.

[BenKimball]

Originally posted by Robert Harrison
My experience seems to be different. After packaging HD with Dr. Device's applescript, I'm still getting orphaned windows at what seems like the same rate as before.

I spoke too soon. I am also seeing the same problems when using Dr. D's wrapper as when I'm not. So I'm back to Virtual PC for now.

One thing I'd still like to experiment with is HD version 1.0. It doesn't seem like I always had this problem with HD running in Apple's JVM, but I'm not sure. Of course, back then I was using the Java 1.4.1 Developer Preview release, too. So I'll try backtracking a few versions to see if it's my memory or newer code at fault.

Cheers!
Ben

[r_callen]

Guys~

Please keep posting about this! I'm a total non-tech guy and am about to get an apple laptop for educational purposes and am interested in putting HERO Designer onto it (hey, it can't *all* be about education). My main comp keeps giving me problems and will soon pass on to the comp. heaven high in the sky... until then I'll keep using it until I get my mac. Once its here, though, I'm hoping to use the HERO Designer on it (maybe even v2?) and am going to need some technical help, hopefully from this forum. So, again, please keep the sound tech advice coming. :)

Charles

[Tasha]

Originally posted by r_callen
Guys~

Please keep posting about this! I'm a total non-tech guy and am about to get an apple laptop for educational purposes and am interested in putting HERO Designer onto it (hey, it can't *all* be about education). My main comp keeps giving me problems and will soon pass on to the comp. heaven high in the sky... until then I'll keep using it until I get my mac. Once its here, though, I'm hoping to use the HERO Designer on it (maybe even v2?) and am going to need some technical help, hopefully from this forum. So, again, please keep the sound tech advice coming. :)

Charles

Don't worry there are a lot of Mac users around here. Even a Mac Goddess <blush> needs help sometimes and the folks here are just great.

Tasha :D

[TalonComics]

Man, I so want this to work!
I have Hero Designer and it's loaded on my son's PC but I would so much rather run it on my Mac.

How slow is it on VPC?

~D

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by TalonComics
Man, I so want this to work!
I have Hero Designer and it's loaded on my son's PC but I would so much rather run it on my Mac.

How slow is it on VPC?

~D

Hey! TalonComics, long time no see -- glad to see you over here on the HERO Boards.

[BenKimball]

Originally posted by TalonComics
How slow is it on VPC?

It's usable, if you're patient.The slowest things are switching tabs and sorting power lists. Occasionally, modifying characteristics can take a long time (e.g., click to add REC, wait 3 seconds, value changes), but that's usually only for the first point. Actually entering values, text, powers, talents, etc., is reasonable. At least, so long as you don't have a non-Virtual PC to compare it to. :)

So I think we're up to 10 or so Mac OS X owners of HD, 22% of forum participant owners if the poll can be believed. At what point do we become an important constituency, I wonder?

Cheers!
Ben

[Robert Harrison]

Originally posted by TalonComics
Man, I so want this to work!
I have Hero Designer and it's loaded on my son's PC but I would so much rather run it on my Mac.

How slow is it on VPC?

~D

In my experience, it's noticeably slower on VPC (v. 6 in my case) than on the Mac running VPC - slow enough that when I tried HD on OS X, I stopped working with it under VPC. You should try it on OS X and see if you get the same trend.

[TalonComics]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Hey! TalonComics, long time no see -- glad to see you over here on the HERO Boards.

Thanks! If there's one power I need right now it's "dupilcate." :D

I *really* don't want to use HD on my son's PC (that is if I can pry him off of it).

It's too bad there isn't anyone out there who knows visual basic well enough to build a character creator in that. I'm guessing we're probably not going to see Mac HD for quite some time. :(

~Derek

[DocMan]

Not an offically supported one. Not until Apple upgrades the JVM to Dan's liking.

However, since it is a Java application, many of us have been able to get it running under OS X, and even encapsulated it like regular Mac Apps.

It still has some flaky points, but it runs, and so far it's better than jumping back and forth from computer to computer.

Doc

[TalonComics]

Originally posted by DocMan
Not an offically supported one. Not until Apple upgrades the JVM to Dan's liking.

However, since it is a Java application, many of us have been able to get it running under OS X, and even encapsulated it like regular Mac Apps.

It still has some flaky points, but it runs, and so far it's better than jumping back and forth from computer to computer.

Doc

I may have missed it coming in late but has anyone put together a FAQ or step by step instructions as to how to pull this off? I'd love to give it a try.

~D

[rjcurrie]

Maybe one of you Mac users who is familiar with this procedure can put together a series of detailed instructions for doing this and it can be made in a sticky post so it is always available.

Rod

[DocMan]

Actually, I thought we already had a thread like that, it just wasn't made sticky.

Unless someone wants to write up new instructions based on everything we've learned up to now?

Doc

[Robert Harrison]

TalonComics,
If you download the .dmg file available from the link in the first post of this thread, it includes a .pdf file with step-by-step instructions for packaging the Windows HD application for use on OS X.

Actually, I tried using HD under VPC last night, and it's not quite as slow as I remembered it being.

[TalonComics]

Originally posted by Robert Harrison
TalonComics,
If you download the .dmg file available from the link in the first post of this thread, it includes a .pdf file with step-by-step instructions for packaging the Windows HD application for use on OS X.

Actually, I tried using HD under VPC last night, and it's not quite as slow as I remembered it being.

Does anyone know if you can install the PC Hero Designer files without having VPC? Reading the instructions it doesn't say.

~D

[BenKimball]

Originally posted by TalonComics
Does anyone know if you can install the PC Hero Designer files without having VPC?

There may be a way, but I don't know it. The installer is a Windows executable file. Maybe if you got the Linux version instead? It might be a gzip or tar file, which could be easily expanded on Mac OS X. Maybe a Linux user or Mr. Simon could clarify the distribution format for Linux.

Cheers!
Ben

[TalonComics]

I bought the actual Windows CD Rom version via my distributor. I do have it loaded on my son's PC though.

I'll see if I can get the exe open also.

~D

[DocMan]

If you've got the Windows version on your son's computer, you don't need to re-install. Just copy the entire folder off of the Windows machine onto the Mac. Upgrade to the Mac Java 1.4.1 JVM, and you should be able to go into Terminal and start HD.

Or you can take the file from the head of this thread and package HD as a Mac App.

Doc

[John McCord]

Man, i dont know where to start... SO, I bought a second-hand PowerBook G4 with OSX 10.1.5, OS9 dual boot, VPC running ME, and so on...
I am confidant Windows user but brand new to Mac. The VPC seems to be under the OS9, which is a really clunky way of doing anything. Won't OSX run VPC? (v4) I dont want to have to do all the switching back and forth between OSs. (But, I also cant afford to upgrade to 10.2 just yet. I spent it all on the comp and AppleWorks so I can write up my stories for the game.) So as it stands I have to switch over to OS9, then switch over to VPC... argh. I could slap the original owner for setting it up that way.
So... how do I start unravelling this mess so I can get it to work on OSX?
Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance.

John :confused:

[Robert Harrison]

Originally posted by John McCord
Won't OSX run VPC? (v4)
I'm not 100% certain about this, but I believe the first version of VPC capable of running on OSX was version 5. VPC is currently at v. 6.

Sorry!:(

[AlbertDeschesne]

Originally posted by Robert Harrison
I'm not 100% certain about this, but I believe the first version of VPC capable of running on OSX was version 5. VPC is currently at v. 6.

Sorry!:(
[Ed McMahon] You are correct, sir! [/Ed McMahon] Version 5 is the first OSX native version. John, what are the specs of the Powerbook? Speed, Ram, ETC? Check ebay for 10.2 here's a search (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2 F&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&from=R7&ebaytag1=ebayreg&query=jaguar+os+x&query2=jaguar+os+x&search_option=1&exclude=&category0=&minPrice=&maxPrice=&ebaytag1code=0&st=&SortProperty=MetaEndSort), VPC 5 or 6 here's a search (http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?satitle=virtual+pc+connectix&ht=1&sosortproperty=1&from=R10&BasicSearch=) and Mac Office for X here's a search (http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?satitle=office+os+x&ht=1&sosortproperty=1&from=R10&BasicSearch=) (Appleworks sucks, textedit is better, IMHO). The best way to "unravel this mess", would be to use the original disks that came with the machine (assuming he gave them to you) and reformat the HD and reinstall the OS (without OS9, I don't have it on my Powerbook and have never looked back) back up what you have first though. And to make the a least a little on topic, you should be able to run Hero Designer on the machine without VPC (which runs slow, no matter which version you have) just search this forum for Mac and you'll find at least a couple of threads on the subject. Feel free to ask any other questions.

[John McCord]

Are you saying that a more advanced v of the OS will not run programs that exist under the old OS? That seems assinine. If I get OSX10.2 then programs that ran under 10.1.5 will stop working? Tell me it ain't so.
I expect draconian stuff like that from Microsoft... (cringes and looks over shoulder)

I have 256 ram and 20 gig hard drive. I got a 700mhz (I think) G4 (for sure). I am not so sure where to find the detailed info yet. I am two days into learning the OS. :confused:

I have VPC on the system now, I just want to clean it up a bit, so I dont have to switch to OS9, then boot up VPC to get to HD.:eek:

I just spent the absolute last of my money to upgrade to 10.2. It should be here soon.

The next Question is: How do I get HD on the Mac once I get 10.2 and java2 1.4.1 up a running? Mac wont use an .exe. I got the DL version and its on my PC. ( I havent been able to enable file sharing on it to save my life, or those of the IT professionals who have tried to get it working either.) :mad:

I am getting frustrated. I may have to go back to pen and paper... Not!

[AlbertDeschesne]

Originally posted by John McCord
Are you saying that a more advanced v of the OS will not run programs that exist under the old OS? That seems assinine. If I get OSX10.2 then programs that ran under 10.1.5 will stop working? Tell me it ain't so.
I expect draconian stuff like that from Microsoft... (cringes and looks over shoulder)

Not saying anything like that at all. However, programs made for OS9 and lower do not run natively under OS X. You have to either boot into OS9 or run them in Classic Mode. Classic Mode runs all right but a little slower than just booting into OS9, and if I remember right VPC v4 has problems in classic


I have 256 ram and 20 gig hard drive. I got a 700mhz (I think) G4 (for sure). I am not so sure where to find the detailed info yet. I am two days into learning the OS. :confused:

I have VPC on the system now, I just want to clean it up a bit, so I dont have to switch to OS9, then boot up VPC to get to HD.:eek:

I just spent the absolute last of my money to upgrade to 10.2. It should be here soon.

Good, I can help more when you get the 10.2 disk and the JAVA and HD will run better under 10.2


The next Question is: How do I get HD on the Mac once I get 10.2 and java2 1.4.1 up a running? Mac wont use an .exe. I got the DL version and its on my PC. ( I havent been able to enable file sharing on it to save my life, or those of the IT professionals who have tried to get it working either.) :mad:

I am getting frustrated. I may have to go back to pen and paper... Not!
File sharing between OSX and Windows works best with WINXP (What version do you have?) if you have WINXP, I can help you with that as I have my two machines connected and can walk you through the process. If you can, attend Steve's chat tonight and we can talk in real time. If your PC can burn CDs you can also just copy your install from the PC and your Mac can read the CD just drag and drop the installed folder from your PC into your application folder. See this thread's beginning and get the SW that Dr. Device has made.

[jonask]

Originally posted by dsimon
PCGen may also have tweaked their code to get around some of the issues that Apple has.

Yeah, we've done a few workarounds in our code for macs. I don't remember what they though. As long as it works on xp and linux I'm happy. :)

/Jonas