Need help with Weapon Levels

[zoran]

I am creating a new campaign and need some advice about the weaponry special effects for the world. (The players are highly trained normals)

The world is setup to support our groups irregular get togethers and it allows us to play whatever characters show up for as much time as we have, all neatly contributing to a grand story arc.

But a key to the tension in each session is the players being properly equipped for what they will face.

Currently I am building out three tiers of weaponry - civilian, police, and military. Each tier should be more powerful then the one below it such that a person in police gear can defeat about 3 cilvilians and someone in military gear is woth at least 10 people in civilian weaponry.

Originally I was thinking about modern weaponry being 'cilivian', our near future military being police issue (caseless ammo, improved body armour) and the military having powered armour and pulsed energy and laser weapons.)

Now I am leaning more towards the paper, sissor, rock model. Something along the lines of a Dune type shield that negates slugthrowers but allows some energy weapons, or an energy shield that damps energy weapons but allows some kinetic damage. And to round out the HERO system add in an EGO shield that blocks mental attacks but allows kinetic and energy attacks. But the gimmick needs to be setup so that a player can only choose one type of shield and one type of weapon per outing.

Any ideas?

[Erkenfresh]

You should thumb through or buy a copy of Dark Champions. It has some optional rules about "Equipment Pools". Players have to pay points to get more Active Points worth of equipment "in use" at a time. They can have a huge collection of guns at home but only a limited amount with them. So, you could work the points out such that you can only bring one gun and one defense along per outting.

[Starwolf]

The equipment pool from DC are a very good idea. In addition consider this for power levels. IRL civilians are restricted from explosives, autofire, and armor piercing. Police are restricted from explosives and armor piercing, but have access to autofire, and new technology in the form of non-lethal (i.e. stun guns, taser, bean bag, rubber bullet) and crowd suppression (tear gas) type equipment. Military has unrestricted access to all/any weapons available including explosives, artillery, stealth tech, etc. As for body armor, there is really no difference between police and military body armors other than proliferation. Mozst street officers wear a lighter "under the shirt" armor during daily duty, but all have access to full combat armor as effective as military issue, especialy SWAT units, etc. Military troops on the other hand almost always use heavy body armor or nothing. I am a military retiree and in my 20 years of active duty never once saw a troop use light armor. Civilians don't normally use body armor of any type, but it is not restricted, just very expensive and uncomfortable to wear if you don't need it. A set of heavy body armor can run about $2000.00 were as Police and Military personnel are issued their armor.

[zoran]

Thanks for the tips. Its a 'Heroic' campaign so we won't be paying character points for the equipment.

A main plot device is where bad guys equiped with police hardware will have a clear advantage over townsfolk, but fewer PC's with military grade weapons will be able to defeat a large number of foes. (Until they start meeting similarly equipped enemies)

I'm really looking for some ideas that will make the weapons grade clear, like lasers vs machine guns vs carbine.

Thanks again!

[AmadanNaBriona]

My old SH campagin used a 1-5 Legality scale as follows...
1: Non lethal weapons (Stunners, Tranq-guns, Spetsdods with most loads)
2: Civilan Lethal Weapons (Semi-auto, non AP, usually, non explosive, reasonable damage range...self defence/hunting weapons)
3: Enforcement/Assault Grade: Added features in one or more of the above categories. Light Military arms are mostly in this range as well.
4: Millspec/Restricted: Heavy weapons, area denial weapons, high collateral damage stuff.
5: Black/Forbidden: Assassination tools. WMD's. Nanotech Doomsday weapons. Tailored cancer inducing retrovirus toxins. The fun stuff.

I didn't tie legality to tech level, because I graded things on tech level as well, so a modern stungun might be a Law 1, Tech 1 weapon, while a magstunner is a Law 1 Tech 4 equilivant. The Magstuner might require registration at purchase because of it's range and potential for criminal application, but its still totally legal for anyone, even criminals, to carry.

[Starwolf]

I think the primary differences are volume of fire and lethality. Police and Military forces largely depend on volume fo fire to suppress the bad guys, the difference being that most of the time police forces are facing either individual or at the least small groups of bad guys, while military forces almost always face larger groups of opponents. Another factor is that where possible police forces prefer to avoid an actual fire fight and almost always want to capture the bad guys, where military forces are trained to use lethal force first. I remember an incident about 20 years ago when some california legislators suggested using Marines to patrol the california - mexican border. The commandant of the marine corp refused saying that his marines were not trained for law enfrcement, but rather to charge over a hill and kill every living thing on the other side. Obviously this was an over-statement, but not by much.

In game terms I would look at the organizational challenges and goals when setting the lethality of weapons. If police forces routinely face armored bad guys then they would have to deploy weapons heavy enough to deal with the armor and still allow capture. Military grade weapons need to be hefty enough to deal with common military personnel armor and make the bad guys keep their heads down.

I am reading a series of SF novels, by John Ringo, where earth is having to face an invading alien race and while we use armor and every weapon from standard issue 20th century M16s to near future energy weapons and powered armor that would let a man crush a tank, the aliens take a different approach. They breed reEALLLLLLLLLYYY quickly and a standard invasion force consists of several million troops. So the alien tactic is to throw troops at you en mass until you are over whelmed. No tactics to speak of, just charge to the sound of the guns. if you shoot a thousand, two thousand more just take their place. And they take no prisoners (or very few). They are carniverous lizardman-centuar hybrids, and simply want to eat you, they eat the bodies of not only your fallen troops but their own also (yes they are cannibalisitic like that). They simply pick up the bodies as the front line apporaches them and pass them back where they are processed at the rear into rations, and the line keeps moving forward. :D

[Basil]

Thanks for the tips. Its a 'Heroic' campaign so we won't be paying character points for the equipment.

Actually, the Resource Points rules (Dark C., pages 150-154) do not have the characters buy equipment (vehicles/bases, followers/contacts, misc.) with character points. They restrict the amount of stuff a character can carry with him based on the stuff's Real Cost, and the size of the "pool" the character has.

The GM sets the size of each of the four pools, but (if he permits) the player can spend Character Points to increase the size of the pool(s). Also, the equipment pool is restricted in terms of what can be "bought" with it, and there are Perks to up the lethality/illegality of what can be "bought." That is, ordinarily a character can only get "standard" items, but can increase that to "Street-level" equipment, "Military" equipment, or even "Advanced Military" equipment; all cost Character Points.

Note well that a character does not pay Character Points for the equipment per se, only to have more and/or "better" equipment.

It's an interesting system, and I believe you could use it in, or adapt it to, your campaign.

[zoran]

I think the primary differences are volume of fire and lethality.

that is a good point. Right now I am leaning towards giving the pc's powered armor and making the main weapon to be feared by them a laser rifle. The laser has a continuous effect for a phase and I'll set up weapon so that if multiple attackers can hit the same PC for a few seconds thier armor will heat up and cause them damage.

I think that will allow the in-game situations I am looking for.

The players could ignore a single attacker, but if they are faced with 10-1 odds on an open field they should be in trouble.