Do you use Hero Designer?

[Hyper-Man]

Hi all,
I'm just curious to see how many posters out there use some form of Hero Designer software to create characters.

[McCoy]

*raises hand*

[Dr. Anomaly]

Absolutely. I've said from the beginning it's a great piece of software, and I'll say now it's only gotten better over time. And you can't beat the response time on support for it.

[Hermit]

Yup. got Version 2.42 or thereabouts. Which works just fine and dandy for me. I am not too savy in the technical department, but I must admit it was a good use of my money.

[L.Craig]

Yes, I find it very useful. I curently have Version 3, which honestly I don't like as much as version 2.
I like the hero designer program because it helps with the math, I don't even know if I could make a character anymore without it.

[schir1964]

No. It's a personal decision and fortunately I have an alternative that works just as well for my purposes.

- Christopher Mullins

[Weldun]

Pencil and Paper. The maths is fairly basic and I hate having to constantly update.

[Tarek]

I used to use HeroMaker.

Now I use Hero Designer. The 'constant' updates really aren't that frequent these days.

I find that I need a program like this in order to keep my math straight. Even with a calculator, doing this stuff by hand is a problem for me, as I'll make a mistake or get something done in the wrong order; sometimes I'll have two different results for the same power with the same limitations and advantages.

What really annoys me, though, is having to clean up the download link to remove the server session information from the saved file.

[Matt Frisbee]

I still use HeroMaker, but am slowly warming to Hero Designer, now that I have a copy of Sidekick (as opposed to FRED). My characters are still fairly basic, because I've always been a *BIFF* *POW* *ZOWIE* type. :)

Matt "Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-BATMAN!" Frisbee

[Bloodstone]

While I can do it the old fashioned way, I find HDv3 to be a major time saver. Love it!

[lemming]

I stopped using it. If I get back into making characters again, I'll probably devise my own tool which won't be as handy as HD, but it will work for me.

[Vorsch]

I use it because i hate having to read xml to understand character submissions, call it self defence.

Its part of modern hero, so you have to keep up

i do grudgingly like it but i make all my characters on paper first from memory of the rules and no calculator, its second nature.

[Lemurion]

I use it, I find it's a great way to manage a character and a game-- if need be I can make notes in HD and just print off fresh character sheets each game.

[Rage]

IK'm not sure what Dan Simon's magnum opus is; hero designer or herocentral.

[Lord Liaden]

IK'm not sure what Dan Simon's magnum opus is; hero designer or herocentral.

Can't he have two magnum opi? ;)

I still use pencil and paper most of the time (which was my poll response), but I do sometimes use the spreadsheets from Free Stuff to speed up certain calculations and point totaling.

[Enforcer84]

Ohyeah!

[oroborous]

I started out using version 2, but I got version 3 for my birthday. The best part is that all the version 2 characters, templates and prefabs that I created flow to version 3.

Its just a big time saver for me, and that's one thing I never have enough of.

[Questar]

I use it, but find some things frustrating with it at times, since I prefer different approaches in different campaigns. For example, I recently opened up the CKC character Stormfront in Hero Designer, a published character, and it threw out one of the limitations on one of his powers as not allowed. Annoying if you want to use the character as published.



Yes, I find it very useful. I curently have Version 3, which honestly I don't like as much as version 2.
I like the hero designer program because it helps with the math, I don't even know if I could make a character anymore without it.


As someone who is considering upgrading to version 3, I'd be interested in knowing what you like better about version 2. Keep in mind I have practically no use for package deals.

[Pentoth]

I use version 2.42 and I like it. I am considering upgrading to version 3 however I don't know if it is worth doing. If anyone could let me know I would appreciate it.

[Hugh Neilson]

I'd say "pencil and paper", but I use an Excel spreadhseet both to help with the math and provide a hard copy others can read.

[Supreme Serpent]

I've got version 2.something I use for my HeroCentral playing, since stuff is 5th ed there. I use HeroMaker a lot for my FTF group, as do the other players. A lot of times I'll jot down basics on paper while I'm away from the computer, then plug them in and flesh out in the program.

[keithcurtis]

I use it for the built in intelligence. I have written both Excel and Filemaker Pro character generators. I use HD for some characters because it's pretty good at letting me know what is legal. The language charts are a big boon. I still make full or limited copies of every character in my FMP database, since I use that for record-keeping and combat.
Since my campaign is an on-line resource, HD has the added bonus of outputting in HTML, in a more robust version than my FMP database can.
That being said, out of hundreds of NPCs I make for a campaign, only about 5 of them are ever fully written up. Mostly it's used for PCs, because...

Keith "...silly player, points are for PCs" Curtis

[Tom]

HDv3. The menues are a little different than v2, and that takes some getting used to. However, I've generally had very few problems with any of the HD versions that didn't qualify as a 'bug' -- and Dan's pretty good with the swatter once you point them out.

Never played with package deals in v2, but the way they're set up in v3 makes ginning out stuff like DEMON Brothers (or demon-bound) a piece of cake with only a little initial effort on the GM's part. Same could be applied to VIPER, but most of the templates I use there are already printed in the back of the book.

I've worked pen and paper, Lotus Spreadsheet, Hero Maker, Hero Creator, and Hero Designer. The specific creation softwares have all been major time savers as real life has eaten more of my spare time when it comes to making and tweaking characters. As a GM, being able to save files to disk rather than keep track of stacks of character sheets has been a major savings of space and frustration.

[Cancer]

I have HDv3, and use it, though I usually sketch out characters and powers on paper first.

[Kabluey]

Not only do I use v3, but in the FH campaign I'm running, I've mandated that every player has to use v3 (they all make enough money to easily afford the $25 price). I feel like I should get a kickback for pimping out the program. :p

Not only does it largely remove the possibility of math errors and reduce the likelihood of rule errors, but I use the custom template and prefab features to customize the program to match my campaign rules. For example, I have a customized list of skills, talents, and perks for my campaign, which I then implemented in a custom HD template so that my players don't actually have to remember the specifics of my campaign; they just use the template and there it all is. The ability to easily customize export templates is also a huge plus.

I have some pretty big complaints with the program (the largest being how it handles equipment), but on the balance it's a great program.

[RPMiller]

Yea, I do stuff with Hero Designer.

[Rapier]

Definately. The sun shone brighter the day HD was born.

Pencil and paper works, but it takes a lot longer. Not only does the math take longer (even with a calculator), but when I build the initial character I am always over points and have to scale back (which means recalculating all those powers again).

I could spend a couple of hours building a character with pencil and paper and a half hour with HD.

It can be bothersome when the rules get in the way and won't allow you to add some advantage or limitation on the power that you want...but at the same time it makes sure that you are rules legal.

[Theron]

HDv2 + USPD files + Gadgets & Gear Files + CKC Files = enough time for me to actually focus on the fun part of GMing.

I'd pick up v3, but right now I don't have much demand to run anything HERO. :(

[Rapier]

I've slowly been putting all of my pen and paper characters into HD so I have them.

If for no other reason, that makes HD worth it's weight in gold. A bunch I had on an old floppy in WordPerfect 5.1 (for DOS) format, others I had in a file folder in my portable file boxey thing. I no longer need worry that I'm going to lose some of these heroic gems. I've even gone so far as to burn them to a CD and they are in the safe! :)

[Killer Shrike]

HD Versions 1, 2, and currently 3. Im a huge fan of it, and use it for EVERYTHING from characters to power constructs to spell lists etc etc.

In the past I used HeroCreator and HeroMaker in their respective eras and while they were adequate for their day, HD blows both away by a very wide margin.

Beyond its utility as a Character designer, as a software developer myself I'm really impressed by the quality and feature set of HD. It is a very ambitious design, and is extremely powerful, flexible, and stable.

I highly recommend it to anyone that makes more than one or two characters a year.

[Simon]

I used to use HeroMaker.

Now I use Hero Designer. The 'constant' updates really aren't that frequent these days.

I find that I need a program like this in order to keep my math straight. Even with a calculator, doing this stuff by hand is a problem for me, as I'll make a mistake or get something done in the wrong order; sometimes I'll have two different results for the same power with the same limitations and advantages.

What really annoys me, though, is having to clean up the download link to remove the server session information from the saved file.
Enable cookies in your browser for that domain and the session information will not be part of the URL/query string.

[Simon]

Yes, I find it very useful. I curently have Version 3, which honestly I don't like as much as version 2.
I like the hero designer program because it helps with the math, I don't even know if I could make a character anymore without it.
Curious on this one....can you elaborate on the why? PM is fine, if you prefer.

[Rapier]

Curious on this one....can you elaborate on the why? PM is fine, if you prefer.

PM, Nothing!!! I wanna know! :)

Heck, maybe I'm having some of the same problems he is and I've just been working around them all this time!

[Spence]

Since I started to run again I use it to make and print the PC's and some NPC's. I still use paper and pencil for initial design, I think better that way. But I like the way HD3 crunches the numbers.

I would use it more if I could tailor an export template and combat chart to meet my needs. But while I was familiar with some early progamming and various programs that use specialized formating, I have never touched HTML or RTF to the point I can modify or create my own. Plus no one seems to understand that at this point very few people really care the "whys" they just want to know "type a and b happens". The last three HTML books I scanned through all started with "we could just tell you how to do it, but we feel if we force you to wade through 1,000,000 pages of background and theory you will be a better HTML writer, plus if we stuck to just what you actually need, we couldn't charge you $70.00 for a book". :mad:

PS if anyone knows a direct and to the point, without the fluff how to HTML book. Please let me know :confused:

[Simon]

I use it, but find some things frustrating with it at times, since I prefer different approaches in different campaigns. For example, I recently opened up the CKC character Stormfront in Hero Designer, a published character, and it threw out one of the limitations on one of his powers as not allowed. Annoying if you want to use the character as published.
That's normally a function of the person who created the character pack -- some characters/writeups in the books use common names for what are actually Custom Modifiers or variations of "Limited Power".

Other times, it's due to refinements and changes in the rules on abilities (which means that the character writeups in the book are in violation -- pretty much what HD is saying).

[RPMiller]

Since I started to run again I use it to make and print the PC's and some NPC's. I still use paper and pencil for initial design, I think better that way. But I like the way HD3 crunches the numbers.

I would use it more if I could tailor an export template and combat chart to meet my needs. But while I was familiar with some early progamming and various programs that use specialized formating, I have never touched HTML or RTF to the point I can modify or create my own. Plus no one seems to understand that at this point very few people really care the "whys" they just want to know "type a and b happens". The last three HTML books I scanned through all started with "we could just tell you how to do it, but we feel if we force you to wade through 1,000,000 pages of background and theory you will be a better HTML writer, plus if we stuck to just what you actually need, we couldn't charge you $70.00 for a book". :mad:

PS if anyone knows a direct and to the point, without the fluff how to HTML book. Please let me know :confused:I would think that W3C.org would give you what you are looking for...

REgarding export formats rumor has it that there are people on these here boards that create export formats for others all the time. ;)

[GreyGuardian]

I'm still using hd2... as soon as my cash flow issue clears up (ie when my divorce is final which might be soon (hurrah) or might be summer 2007 (bleagh)) hd3 and the books I've not bought from hero are on my short list of things to buy.

[Tarek]

Enable cookies in your browser for that domain and the session information will not be part of the URL/query string.

Thank you, that did the trick.

[Spence]

I use it, I find it's a great way to manage a character and a game-- if need be I can make notes in HD and just print off fresh character sheets each game.

That is one thing I could never figure out. I can add a tab in HD, but since it doesn't exist in the canned templates, it won't print out. A while back (year plus) I had asked. But instead of "type this line in any template with X being the name of the tab", I got the complete how to design the planet from the sub-atomic structure level instead. They used english, but they may as well have used klingon, since it involved multiple assumptions of "common knowledge" and undefined terms. I really do understand that the present export formate is better. I also understand that teaching HTML or RTF isn't Hero's job. But I also know more people who stopped using HD than are using it because of this single point. My job involves direct support of a specialized software application. While it doesn't include using windows or local LAN support, I find myself providing that type of training all the time, because if the user cannot access the required data they are not able to function regardless if it is application related or network related. By training the user to ID the real cause of a problem so they can contact the actual person that can address it we get a win win situation rather than a lose lose one. I would love to see an export template broken down. Take one and place in on a page in a two column format. In the left column the export template, in the right column a plain language explanation of what the line opposite does. Documents like that contain 90% of what you need. The rest is all filler. They have already put out a list of all tags. In the end however, it is not my call. But a little info could go a long way to making the software more valuable to the non-programmer gamer.

For myself I see a really well done program that I can't get to they way I want to.

[Lemurion]

That is one thing I could never figure out. I can add a tab in HD, but since it doesn't exist in the canned templates, it won't print out. A while back (year plus) I had asked. But instead of "type this line in any template with X being the name of the tab", I got the complete how to design the planet from the sub-atomic structure level instead. They used english, but they may as well have used klingon, since it involved multiple assumptions of "common knowledge" and undefined terms. I really do understand that the present export formate is better. I also understand that teaching HTML or RTF isn't Hero's job. But I also know more people who stopped using HD than are using it because of this single point. My job involves direct support of a specialized software application. While it doesn't include using windows or local LAN support, I find myself providing that type of training all the time, because if the user cannot access the required data they are not able to function regardless if it is application related or network related. By training the user to ID the real cause of a problem so they can contact the actual person that can address it we get a win win situation rather than a lose lose one. I would love to see an export template broken down. Take one and place in on a page in a two column format. In the left column the export template, in the right column a plain language explanation of what the line opposite does. Documents like that contain 90% of what you need. The rest is all filler. They have already put out a list of all tags. In the end however, it is not my call. But a little info could go a long way to making the software more valuable to the non-programmer gamer.

For myself I see a really well done program that I can't get to they way I want to.

I use the boxes in the background tab as they print out anyway :)

[Killer Shrike]

That is one thing I could never figure out. I can add a tab in HD, but since it doesn't exist in the canned templates, it won't print out. A while back (year plus) I had asked. But instead of "type this line in any template with X being the name of the tab", I got the complete how to design the planet from the sub-atomic structure level instead. They used english, but they may as well have used klingon, since it involved multiple assumptions of "common knowledge" and undefined terms. I really do understand that the present export formate is better. I also understand that teaching HTML or RTF isn't Hero's job. But I also know more people who stopped using HD than are using it because of this single point. My job involves direct support of a specialized software application. While it doesn't include using windows or local LAN support, I find myself providing that type of training all the time, because if the user cannot access the required data they are not able to function regardless if it is application related or network related. By training the user to ID the real cause of a problem so they can contact the actual person that can address it we get a win win situation rather than a lose lose one. I would love to see an export template broken down. Take one and place in on a page in a two column format. In the left column the export template, in the right column a plain language explanation of what the line opposite does. Documents like that contain 90% of what you need. The rest is all filler. They have already put out a list of all tags. In the end however, it is not my call. But a little info could go a long way to making the software more valuable to the non-programmer gamer.

For myself I see a really well done program that I can't get to they way I want to.

So basically it sounds like you're blaming other people that are more savvy than you because even when given step by step instructions you can't be bothered to figure out how to do something that is actually relatively simple and is to suit something custom to your own personal preferences?

Are you in management or sales by any chance? :D

[Killer Shrike]

The Balloonist

A man in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a man below. He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below replied, "You are in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet about the ground. You are between 40 and 42 degrees north latitude and between 58 and 60 degrees west longitude."

"You must be an engineer," said the balloonist.
"I am," replied the man, "but how did you know?"

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost."

The man below responded, "You must be a manager."
"I am," replied the balloonist, "how did you know?"

"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you are going. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are exactly in the same position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my fault."

[Hyper-Man]

The Balloonist

A man in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a man below. He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below replied, "You are in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet about the ground. You are between 40 and 42 degrees north latitude and between 58 and 60 degrees west longitude."

"You must be an engineer," said the balloonist.
"I am," replied the man, "but how did you know?"

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost."

The man below responded, "You must be a manager."
"I am," replied the balloonist, "how did you know?"

"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you are going. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are exactly in the same position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my fault."

I play middle-man to both types in my job every day.

[RPMiller]

That is one thing I could never figure out. I can add a tab in HD, but since it doesn't exist in the canned templates, it won't print out.

For myself I see a really well done program that I can't get to they way I want to.
I've created a couple export templates that include the tabs. I also mentioned above, on the HD forum several times, and in my sig that I and others are willing to help if you need it. If you aren't willing to take the time to at least look through the docs and existing templates, which would be a fraction of the time the rest of us have invested, than I can understand how you would be frustrated, but doing so would get you going in the direction you want to go, and with a support system as you have here I really can't see what there is to complain about.

[BoloOfEarth]

I use Creation Workshop for character creation (updated the template to 5th edition). I tried Hero Designer fairly early on - not sure the exact version - and (1) it ran excessively slow on my laptop, and (2) at that time, none of the export templates worked the way I wanted.

While I'm sure all of this is fine now, I have yet to venture into buying a more recent version of HD or trying it again. Several of my players use it, but thus far I've stuck with CW, possibly because I'm not looking forward to converting 100+ homebrew or modified CU characters.

[Questar]

So basically it sounds like you're blaming other people that are more savvy than you because even when given step by step instructions you can't be bothered to figure out how to do something that is actually relatively simple and is to suit something custom to your own personal preferences?

Are you in management or sales by any chance? :D


Neither a manger nor engineer, I get the idea from this exchange is that HD is a great tool for those with experience in using code for various export templates. (Which I take to mean different formats for printing out character sheets.)

My question is, is it the case that the improvements from HD2 to HD3 are mainly in this area? Is there any functionality improvement for the more casual user who is not interested in tweaking export templates? I understand that there is more support for Package Deals, and in linking a vehicle to an owner, but is that the extent of the difference?

[keithcurtis]

...thus far I've stuck with CW, possibly because I'm not looking forward to converting 100+ homebrew or modified CU characters.

This is one of the best reasons I've heard. It's also one of many reasons I still use a Macintosh. Don't want to buy my software suite all over again.

Keith "investment of time and effort" Curtis

[Lumbering Ox]

The Balloonist

A man in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a man below. He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below replied, "You are in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet about the ground. You are between 40 and 42 degrees north latitude and between 58 and 60 degrees west longitude."
...

Considering he is about 400 miles away from shore [400 miles SE of Halifax] in the Atlantic I think he is more then a bit lost. ;)

[Lumbering Ox]

I make characters the old fashoned way, I rule rape them ;)


[no not really]

[AliceTheOwl]

I find Hero Designer to be absolutely essential to running my game. I have two system newbies in my game, and I'm a new GM running a world of my own creation.

We have version 3.

[Simon]

A note on the export thing:

The various (optional) notes tabs each have their own export tags associated. These tags include conditional statements which allow for exports that include the notes sections only if they are "turned on" in the campaign rules for the character being exported.

Several of the export formats have done this (including the default).

[Killer Shrike]

Neither a manger nor engineer, I get the idea from this exchange is that HD is a great tool for those with experience in using code for various export templates. (Which I take to mean different formats for printing out character sheets.)


That is not the case at all. There are literally dozens of export templates available for export in a wide variety of layouts and file types.

If you are particularly picky about the format or layout of your character sheets and none of the available formats fufills your needs and you want something custom, the application supports that but it does require knowledge of the syntax / methodology used by the particular file type you want to export to to make the template.

There are many people on the boards, including myself and RPMiller, that have turned out export templates in more variations than you could count on all your toes and fingers (and then some) who are willing to help or even just do it for you if approached in a reasonable fashion.

Honestly people kill me about this. The ability to support a vast array of user configurable templates is a FEATURE -- and a fantastic one -- but some how there are people that make it out to be a FLAW. Since when did flexibile and extensible rather than inflexible and monolithic change to mean bad?

HeroMaker, as memory serves, had a limited number of export templates, and so did Creation Workshop / Hero Creator. You could make export templates for Hero Creator as well, but they were a nightmare to do and had major pagination issues (I know, I made several of them), and at the end of the day you were still stuck with limited options for export file formats. HERO Designer is lightyears beyond that in both ease of configuration and diversity of possible output.


Also, as an aside, if you think changing an HTML template is "programming", then you just have no clue what programming really is like. Altering a plain text non-compiled scripting language intended to describe LAYOUT of all things is to real programming what microwaving popcorn is to preparing a multi course feast from scratch consisting of cuisines from around the world utilizing different techniques and implements.

[Doc Democracy]

Since when did flexibile and extensible rather than inflexible and monolithic change to mean bad?

Haven't you seen people criticise Hero for precisely the same reason? :)

Doc

[Enforcer84]

This is one of the best reasons I've heard. It's also one of many reasons I still use a Macintosh. Don't want to buy my software suite all over again.

Keith "investment of time and effort" Curtis
True, but they (I belive it was ... Christopher Mullins?) made a CW -> HD conversion script. It was when the original version of HD came out, but I think it was updated for v2.
It was a script for CW that converted to an hdc file. I converted 1000s of characters in about 10 minutes. There was some maintanence to do but it was quite easy.

[Doc Democracy]

I recently bought myself HD3 for father's day - I had been promised it but somehow I never got anything, so I treated myself.

Anyway - I am very comfortable with pen and paper but have high hopes of producing characters on sheets for players and the same characters on sheets for the GM.

For that a common database with two custom templates will do nicely.

It is a distant plan of mine for when I eventually have a life again - I believe it should begin when my son gets to about 4 years old....

Doc

[Wombatman]

It is a distant plan of mine for when I eventually have a life again - I believe it should begin when my son gets to about 4 years old....

Doc

Boy are you optimistic.

[Peregrine]

Oh, yeah... HD rocks on toast.

[ghost-angel]

Yea, I do stuff with Hero Designer.

that's like saying, "yeah, Ford does stuff with cars."

I'm in the same boat, Yeah, I do stuff with it. I should upload more of my Templates to HeroCentral.

(HD Rules!)

[schir1964]

True, but they (I belive it was ... Christopher Mullins?) made a CW -> HD conversion script. It was when the original version of HD came out, but I think it was updated for v2.
It was a script for CW that converted to an hdc file. I converted 1000s of characters in about 10 minutes. There was some maintanence to do but it was quite easy.
Actually, no, I did not create that. Someone else did. I don't know if it ever worked for sure.

As far as I know, you can create Filters for Metacreator to fit just about any format you want. It's not my thing, but there are others who create them like crazy just like people do here for Hero Designer.

- Christopher Mullins

[TheRavenIs]

I use HD 2.42. I find it makes creating a character easier. I need the software now, the group I am part of use FRED, and I was out of gaming for three years, I used 4th ED then so the software helps.

[Mojo_Bones]

I use HD 2.42. I find it makes creating a character easier. I need the software now, the group I am part of use FRED, and I was out of gaming for three years, I used 4th ED then so the software helps.
I am in the same boat as you. I haven't played in quite a while and HD really helps to keep me from making mistakes becuase I am so used to making Heros for 4th ED.

[Hyper-Man]

I am happy to see so many non-ngd regulars on this thread.
:thumbup:

[Questar]

That is not the case at all. There are literally dozens of export templates available for export in a wide variety of layouts and file types.

Killer Shrike, I appreciate that you have gone out of your way to make export templates for others to use. I respect that. But you should read my post more carefully. What I said was that HD is a great tool for creating such templates if you have the experience to know how to use them. What part of that statement isn't accurate? Do you mean to imply that you don't need any experience?



If you are particularly picky about the format or layout of your character sheets and none of the available formats fufills your needs and you want something custom, the application supports that but it does require knowledge of the syntax / methodology used by the particular file type you want to export to to make the template.

There are many people on the boards, including myself and RPMiller, that have turned out export templates in more variations than you could count on all your toes and fingers (and then some) who are willing to help or even just do it for you if approached in a reasonable fashion.


That's great of you. I appreciate you and the others who have unselfishly gone out of your way to help others. I think I even have some of yours that I have downloaded. If you read my post carefully, maybe you can see that I am not particularly interested in more export templates. I'm fine with the ones that exist. The question I was asking is about the difference between HD 2 and HD 3. If the biggest area of improvement is that it offers more export template flexibility, this is not a selling point with me. I have plenty of different ones with HD2, thanks to people like you and RP Miller. What I am trying to find out is what *OTHER* differences there might be, one that might have appeal for me, that might provide me with a reason to upgrade, since I am not craving more export template flexibility.



Honestly people kill me about this. The ability to support a vast array of user configurable templates is a FEATURE -- and a fantastic one -- but some how there are people that make it out to be a FLAW. Since when did flexibile and extensible rather than inflexible and monolithic change to mean bad?


How you got this from my post baffles me. Where did I say anything remotely like this? I asked a question about the difference between two different versions, making no criticisms of either one. I admit I hesitated about asking the question, because it seems to me that when certain kinds of questions are asked about HD, the one asking the question is simply scolded for ignorance, and the question itself ignored. Seems I was right on that score.




Also, as an aside, if you think changing an HTML template is "programming", then you just have no clue what programming really is like. Altering a plain text non-compiled scripting language intended to describe LAYOUT of all things is to real programming what microwaving popcorn is to preparing a multi course feast from scratch consisting of cuisines from around the world utilizing different techniques and implements.

I didn't use the term "programming" at all, which makes me wonder if you even read my post. Neverthless, thank you for this illuminating aside. It really helps me to understand things much better now. Sheesh!

[Simon]

I don't believe that there were any real changes to the export process in v3 (yet). Maybe a few new tags/constructs....but that's about it.

v3 was/is mainly about increased functionality within the application itself (package deals, improved character files, related files for vehicles and such, more application preferences and control, etc.)

[Killer Shrike]

Killer Shrike, I appreciate that you have gone out of your way to make export templates for others to use. I respect that. But you should read my post more carefully. What I said was that HD is a great tool for creating such templates if you have the experience to know how to use them. What part of that statement isn't accurate? Do you mean to imply that you don't need any experience?



That's great of you. I appreciate you and the others who have unselfishly gone out of your way to help others. I think I even have some of yours that I have downloaded. If you read my post carefully, maybe you can see that I am not particularly interested in more export templates. I'm fine with the ones that exist. The question I was asking is about the difference between HD 2 and HD 3. If the biggest area of improvement is that it offers more export template flexibility, this is not a selling point with me. I have plenty of different ones with HD2, thanks to people like you and RP Miller. What I am trying to find out is what *OTHER* differences there might be, one that might have appeal for me, that might provide me with a reason to upgrade, since I am not craving more export template flexibility.



How you got this from my post baffles me. Where did I say anything remotely like this? I asked a question about the difference between two different versions, making no criticisms of either one. I admit I hesitated about asking the question, because it seems to me that when certain kinds of questions are asked about HD, the one asking the question is simply scolded for ignorance, and the question itself ignored. Seems I was right on that score.




I didn't use the term "programming" at all, which makes me wonder if you even read my post. Neverthless, thank you for this illuminating aside. It really helps me to understand things much better now. Sheesh!

The first part of the response was to your quoted bit. The rest was just a general rantgent (part tangent and part rant) and not directed at you personally.

Sorry if you felt accosted, dragged into an ally, and bludgeoned with techie scorn!

:D

[Killer Shrike]

Considering he is about 400 miles away from shore [400 miles SE of Halifax] in the Atlantic I think he is more then a bit lost. ;)

I guess that means that the engineer can walk on water if he chooses too.

[Deejmeister]

Honestly people kill me about this. The ability to support a vast array of user configurable templates is a FEATURE -- and a fantastic one -- but some how there are people that make it out to be a FLAW. Since when did flexibile and extensible rather than inflexible and monolithic change to mean bad?

The Linux user in me says suspects it had something to do with the founding of a company called Microsoft...

:D

[Questar]

The first part of the response was to your quoted bit. The rest was just a general rantgent (part tangent and part rant) and not directed at you personally.

Sorry if you felt accosted, dragged into an ally, and bludgeoned with techie scorn!

:D


An apt description. :idjit: I did think you were addressing my post specifically. Okay. No problem. And thanks for the export templates.

[Hyper-Man]

So far we have 60 confirmed HD v3 users.

Why aren't more of you posting characters to the character vault on herodesigner.com? I know Killer Shrike's excuse is that he has his own site which he has setup to allow html exports but what about the rest of you?

[Deejmeister]

Why aren't more of you posting characters to the character vault on herodesigner.com?

Personally, I use so many house rules and build characters on such a radically different point scale than standard, that I find it hard to believe anyone could make use of them.

[Tim]

I use 2.4, and haven't upgraded yet but plan to.

I don't get to use it much as trying to find people to play HERO with is hard to do.

[tomd1969]

I'm still using version 2. In fact, I just purchased it not too long ago--I think just a few months before v3 came out. I love it, personally.

[Shike019]

I upgraded to v3 shortly after it came out, and I love it. it runs better, IMO, and has more functionality. While v2 was an excellent program, v3 is already better and will continue to do so as time goes on. Since the implementation of the sevice contract you won't have to wait for a new verion to get the cool new features. I can't remember the list of features Dan is planning on, but I remember something about a Martial Maneuver builder based off of the rules in UMA (which is a brilliant peice of functionality).

Of course for me, I had to upgrade my OS before I could install the proper version of Java (which is cool as I love the new version of the OS).

Also, any character created on any version of HD is usable in v3 (so no re-creating characters made in v1 or v2.)

[Killer Shrike]

So far we have 60 confirmed HD v3 users.

Why aren't more of you posting characters to the character vault on herodesigner.com? I know Killer Shrike's excuse is that he has his own site which he has setup to allow html exports but what about the rest of you?

Its not an excuse, its a mandate! ;)

[Killer Shrike]

Ok, I just tossed 50 odd characters up onto the Hero Designer Character db.

I've got a couple hundred characters tucked here and there, but most of them are older and I don't have time to run them through HDv3 so that I can upload them, but that should be plenty for now.

[Trebuchet]

I think everyone in our group uses some version of it. Most of us have v2, but one has v3 and I think one player is still using v1. I'll upgrade to v3 eventually, but right now I don't have a computer with the right OS.

For our group I think the best things about Hero Designer (besides the character designing aspect itself) has been how handy it makes reviewing or exchanging characters (with 8 players and 5 GMs in our group that's important!); and the ability to quickly print up PC's when the inevitable "I forgot my character sheet" situation comes up. I keep the latest versions of everyone's characters and almost 1100 NPCs in a flash drive I carry in my pocket.

I love Hero Designer! :thumbup:

[Hyper-Man]

Ok, I just tossed 50 odd characters up onto the Hero Designer Character db.

I've got a couple hundred characters tucked here and there, but most of them are older and I don't have time to run them through HDv3 so that I can upload them, but that should be plenty for now.

Showoff!
;)

[Zed-F]

I got v2 a while ago and still use it. I expect to get v3 eventually (or v4 or whatever...) but for now v2 satisfies my needs. When I come up with something I need to do that my current version no longer supports, I'll make the change. :)

As far as utility goes, I mainly like it because I don't need to lug my rulebook around to make characters, and I have access to character creation options from supplements I don't own. (At least the ones that are fairly intuitive.)

[Great Beyond]

While I've played the game for years now (switching back and forth between WEG's Star Wars) and I'll freely admit that it's a hella versitile engine, I've never been truly adapt at playing with the mechanics under the hood. Several things have always stood in my way from reaching that next level:

01) Inspiration
02) The Numbers

City of Heroes took care of number one. I now have more concepts, ideas, powers and starting points for characters from now until my arm falls off from doing the write ups.

Hero Designer has taken care of the second one. A process that used to take 3+ hours of back and forth rules book searching, hoping that I got all the point totals right, and scuttleing it all because I painted myself into a corner is now a thing of the past. In an hour I can go from concept to finished product and get onto the fun stuff.

Between HD and the more modular "plug and play" nature that the game seems to be leaning towards with the Ultimate X books, suddenly the mechanics become secondary and I can get to the fun stuff.

Best 25 bucks I ever spent. Now if only I could get it to work on my home computer.

[Enforcer84]

that's like saying, "yeah, Ford does stuff with cars."

I'm in the same boat, Yeah, I do stuff with it. I should upload more of my Templates to HeroCentral.

(HD Rules!)
Yes you should!

[Enforcer84]

Showoff!
;)
My character list at home is 3000+
there are a few dupes in there but I cull every couple of years. I haven't posted many to the DB yet, should I?
I try to post files with my write ups I post here.

[RPMiller]

The question isn't should you, it is "why haven't you"? ;)

[Vurbal]

I've been using HD since V2, although I helped with the data entry for V1 while it was still in Alpha and was involved in Beta testing, and I use V3 now. IMO it's designed and coded up to the standards I expect from business software costing hundreds of dollars, and the HD website is an incredible resource.

[Spectrum]

I use it. I find it helpful and a bit of a time saver. I also find it helps me work out the math for the various frameworks (I've always had trouble working out element controls for some reason). I still use V1, just haven't bothered to upgrade.

[Enforcer84]

Uploaded all my Lords of Justice who have art. Sadly the last two will have to wait until I can find some more cash. :)

[Macamboy]

Use V2 myself. It's a great time saver, plus I can e-mail the character sheets to my players when I need to. Great overall tool. :thumbup:

[Hyper-Man]

Uploaded all my Lords of Justice who have art. Sadly the last two will have to wait until I can find some more cash. :)

What's the matter? Did you use your last crayon? :D

[Spence]

I would think that W3C.org would give you what you are looking for...

REgarding export formats rumor has it that there are people on these here boards that create export formats for others all the time. ;)


I've created a couple export templates that include the tabs. I also mentioned above, on the HD forum several times, and in my sig that I and others are willing to help if you need it. If you aren't willing to take the time to at least look through the docs and existing templates, which would be a fraction of the time the rest of us have invested, than I can understand how you would be frustrated, but doing so would get you going in the direction you want to go, and with a support system as you have here I really can't see what there is to complain about.


Thanks RPmiller. I have finally had the time to sit down and read the thread. I noticed that between your first and second post you thought I was ignoring you, as in not bothering to read and so on. Actually, I had read all the HD docs, and while I am sure they are exactly what they are meant to be they assume a level of knowledge and a context to place them in. But that is neither here or there.

I actually wanted to thank you for the link to W3C.org. Unlike the other “holier than thou” types you have actually pointed out a solution. I have been reading through some of the overviews and with some actual concrete information things are staring to become less murky, at least I think so.

I am a little puzzled at the general hostility on the boards whenever anyone asks for guidance. The export capability is touted as one of the great features, but whenever anyone asks for “how to” they are immediately flayed alive. On one hand they are called lazy because they don’t already know the answer and on the other hand they are told to just ask someone else to design the export. I will admit that I tend to post a little strongly on this subject, but I have gotten tired of being called and idiot because I don’t use HTML for a living. In all the time I have had HD yours is the very first post I can remember that actually gave me an answer that I could use. Other than that this particular forum’s treatment of the novice user almost reminds me of the NGD.

But anyway I did want to thank you for the link. I would also like to ask if it would be alright to shoot the occasional PM to you about HTML if I hit a snag?

[Spence]

I use the boxes in the background tab as they print out anyway :)

Thanks, I should have thought of that. I wanted a weapons tab though. I think I will just have to use the equipment tab and type in each weapon as I need them. Time to learn how to to create prefabs again.

[Hyper-Man]

BUMP!

If you have Hero Designer (v2 or v3) you can now get around this board's "no-HTML" rule without having to host your own website (like Killer Shrike and Susano). All you have to do is get a HeroCentral.net (http://herocentral.net/) free membership and you can then upload the Hero Designer HTML exports to that site. HeroCentral.net (http://herocentral.net/) will then give you a URL link which you can copy and paste to any thread on this board.

:D

[Weldun]

Pencil and Paper. The maths is fairly basic and I hate having to constantly update.Does quoting myself make me pretentious? Oh,well.

I have since gotten HD 2.42 and have found it to be helpfull. While I've never had a problem with the math, the ability to tweak and adjust the character and have the program recalculating as you go is nice. I just wish that there was an export template that was actually printer friendly as I find the one listed as such to be, well, not.

[Hyper-Man]

Does quoting myself make me pretentious? Oh,well.

I have since gotten HD 2.42 and have found it to be helpfull. While I've never had a problem with the math, the ability to tweak and adjust the character and have the program recalculating as you go is nice. I just wish that there was an export template that was actually printer friendly as I find the one listed as such to be, well, not.

I've seen others mention that the HTML 'printer friendly' exports behave differently depending on which browser you use (IE vs. Firefox for example). Or are you having issue with the RTF ones instead?

[Weldun]

Where would I find the RTF ones? The only one I found was the default html.

[Hyper-Man]

Where would I find the RTF ones? The only one I found was the default html.

http://www.herodesigner.com/export.htm

there are 8 pages worth of different formats.

[Weldun]

I just said that the only one I found was the default template. But I also wont download anything that does tell me what it does first. So shoot me, but I used to be a support tech.

[Simon]

I just said that the only one I found was the default template. But I also wont download anything that does tell me what it does first. So shoot me, but I used to be a support tech.
Then you should know better.


a) The installer for HDv2 provided you with a number of different export formats, not just the 'default' -- they're all in the same directory as the default print template.

b) being wary of downloading and executing unknown applications from the internet is all well and good....but does not apply in this case. First off, you are downloading from the official support site of the application you are already using. Secondly, you are not executing anything that you download -- you are pulling down glorified text files which HD will read/use.

[RPMiller]

I try to give full descriptions on all my RTF exports as I like to know what they do as well. I'm not sure how many I've uploaded so far, but there are several, and I still have more that I probably haven't uploaded. If there is something specific that you are looking for, let me know and I may already have an Export Format created for it.

[Weldun]

And yet, none that I have found from this, the only site I will download from, have proven to be actually printer friendly.

[Hyper-Man]

And yet, none that I have found from this, the only site I will download from, have proven to be actually printer friendly.

This could be something to do with the default font you are using or be something to do with the actual word processing program you are using. Do you use Word or openoffice? My previous pc didn't have word/office so I was forced to use openoffice and the results were never as good as using word on a different pc (using same export, margins and font)

[Savinien]

And yet, none that I have found from this, the only site I will download from, have proven to be actually printer friendly.

Then your problems are self-inflicted.

[Weldun]

I use Word. I suppose that my problem is heavy amount of reformatting I need to do to get the layout into one that doesn't amke me want to cross me eyes because it would hurt less. And I don't think Times New Roman is an unusual font. I expect trouble when I use something like Dark Crystal, because of the lack of punctuation.

[RPMiller]

Have you actually tried one of my Export Formats? It produces an output exactly like the books. What heavy reformatting are you having to do? When I write the RTF Export I define everything from the font that is used to the margins. The Export itself is pretty easy to change if you look at it. I try to make the 'code' as user friendly as I can to save myself time should I need to edit it.

[Killer Shrike]

And yet, none that I have found from this, the only site I will download from, have proven to be actually printer friendly.

Well:

A) Specifics please?

B) If you want printer friendly, don't use an html based export. HTML is not a paginated format and while there are hacks they vary in their effectiveness by browser and character detail.

[Weldun]

Well, you have hit the nail on the head with point two. I need decent pagination.

[ghost-angel]

I know RPMiller provides examples of the exports on HeroDesigner site; and his are pretty printer friendly all things considered.

[Savinien]

I'm saying you are still having problems because you won't download the export template that will work for you from the Hero Designer site. Or, use one of the RTF templates that come with HD.

[Weldun]

:rolleyes:

[ghost-angel]

:rolleyes:

We offer help. You roll your eyes and don't take it.

nice. :straight:

Don't like the offerings? Make your own then.

[Weldun]

I appologise for my behaviour. You are just trying to help, but it was getting frustrating because it seemed as if nobody was actually reading what I had posted. I had simply stated that I had found none of the export templates that I had aquired from this site to be any use in printing out a character sheet.

I would like to thank you all, however, for trying to help me. Reading over my last few posts, I see how they could be read as far more unthoughtfull than they were intended. Unfortunately, I had had a long night and my lack of sleep had spilled out onto these boards. It is something that I endeavor to avoid, but it does still happen from time to time. This in no way excuses these posts, simply explains them and hopefully takes some of the edge off of them.

Once again, my sincerest regrets to any and all who felt that I was being unreasonable.

To bring things back to a more positive note, I did get to use an earlier version of v2 that did not support compound abilities, and now that the program supports them, I have found it to be twice as usefull as a result of this minor tweak. But does anyone know of a way to apply a negative attribute as a power in v2? For example, -30 STR, (-30 active), linked to shrinking (-1/2).

[Hyper-Man]

To bring things back to a more positive note, I did get to use an earlier version of v2 that did not support compound abilities, and now that the program supports them, I have found it to be twice as usefull as a result of this minor tweak. But does anyone know of a way to apply a negative attribute as a power in v2? For example, -30 STR, (-30 active), linked to shrinking (-1/2).

No problems.

A defined Side Effect is probably the only way since negative Characteristics as powers is forbidden.

[Simon]

Compound abilities (aka "Compound Power") has been in HD since version 1.0

[Weldun]

No problems.

A defined Side Effect is probably the only way since negative Characteristics as powers is forbidden.Ah, damn. I've always had a little problem with that limitation. Hmm, for the char that I'm working on, it's modding a 75 Active Point Shrink, so that come to -37 STR for a (-1/2), err, damnit. This is why I hate this lim. Oh well, thanks for the help.
Compound abilities (aka "Compound Power") has been in HD since version 1.0Weird. It wasn't the default v2 install that I had. *Shrug*.

[Simon]

It wasn't the default v2 install that I had. *Shrug*.
Yes, it was.

The only possible way to avoid having it would be to use a custom template that explicitly removed it.

It has been in every version (including the demo versions) and every single update since version 1.0.

The v2.02 (the go-live release version of v2) installer provided you with multiple export formats as well.....so I'm not sure what application you've been using all these years, but from everything you describe, it's not HD.

[Weldun]

Woah there.:eek: Maybe it was there, but I just kept missing it, but I tried to look for something like it and I couldn't find it. Or maybe I just had a gitch when I loaded it up for that session. Who knows. All that I'm saying is that it's a good feature.

For the record, v2.42

[Weldun]

Hmm, for the char that I'm working on, it's modding a 75 Active Point Shrink, so that come to -37 STR for a (-1/2)Whoops, it's (-1), it always occurs when the powers active:doi:. Hey, all in all, that works out cheaper (this time).:thumbup:

Thank You, Hyper-Man.
Ooh, I just had an '80s flashback.

[Thia Halmades]

BUMP!

If you have Hero Designer (v2 or v3) you can now get around this board's "no-HTML" rule without having to host your own website (like Killer Shrike and Susano). All you have to do is get a HeroCentral.net (http://herocentral.net/) free membership and you can then upload the Hero Designer HTML exports to that site. HeroCentral.net (http://herocentral.net/) will then give you a URL link which you can copy and paste to any thread on this board.

:D

Behold! I have made with t3h account, but damned if I know how the site works. :D But now at least I can say I'm on the system.

[Hyper-Man]

Behold! I have made with t3h account, but damned if I know how the site works. :D But now at least I can say I'm on the system.

FYI, there's better instructions available if you follow the link in my sig.

[Hugh Neilson]

But does anyone know of a way to apply a negative attribute as a power in v2? For example, -30 STR, (-30 active), linked to shrinking (-1/2).

Sell back 30 STR. Then build a Multipower with two Ultra slots, one being Shrinking and the other being +30 STR.

[Weldun]

Sell back 30 STR. Then build a Multipower with two Ultra slots, one being Shrinking and the other being +30 STR.That would work in most situations, but the character's strength is only 10 when at full size. Otherwise, yeah, that's how I would have done it.

[Hugh Neilson]

That would work in most situations, but the character's strength is only 10 when at full size. Otherwise, yeah, that's how I would have done it.

And he would still have a 10 STR at full size.

[Hyper-Man]

Is this what you were looking for?

50 Proportional Strength Shrinking: Shrinking (0.0314 m tall, 0.0004 kg mass, -12 PER Rolls to perceive character, +12 DCV, takes +18" KB), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (75 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Character loses 5 STR per every 10 Active points of Shrinking used; -1/2) - END=6

[Weldun]

First, Hugh, I get you. Buy down to the neg 20, then multi-slot it. But I ended up going with...

Is this what you were looking for?

50 Proportional Strength Shrinking: Shrinking (0.0314 m tall, 0.0004 kg mass, -12 PER Rolls to perceive character, +12 DCV, takes +18" KB), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (75 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Character loses 5 STR per every 10 Active points of Shrinking used; -1/2) - END=6Yeah, that's it, and it's what I eventually went with after your initial suggestion and I realised we actually had Ultimate Metamorph. I swear, the collection is getting to be like 2nd Ed AD&D, only without the crap.

Back on topic, it took about a minute to put the tweak into the character, and buy a few more skills with the points it saved. That's probably where HD (or any chargen prog) helps best. But it also helps that the tab layout is a logical outgrowth of the main book's own format.