Recommendations For Steve's Military SF Reading

[Steve Long]

Hi, folx! It's time to start another "recommended reading" discussion.

In another few months, I'll start working on Alien Wars, which is the sort of "Military SF" setting in the Hero Universe timeline. As part of this book, I'm currently planning to have a section on Military SF in general -- some of the issues that arise in Military SF stories, and if appropriate how to simulate them in HERO System terms.

To make that section as good as possible, I'd like to delve back into Military SF, which I haven't read in a while. So, I thought I'd ask for some reading recommendations. Casting my eye over my bookshelves, I see the following:

Drake, David. Various books.
Haldeman, Joe. The Forever War.
Heinlein, Robert. Starship Troopers.
Modesitt, L.E. The Parafaith War.
Niven, Larry, et al. The Man-Kzin Wars
Steakley, John. Armor.

So, what else is out there that you might recommend? If you can, please indicate why you're recommending it -- what does it show/illustrate/use that makes it interesting, how might it be useful for gaming?

I am primarily interested in novels or stories depicting combat between starships, or ground combat featuring SF-tech weapons (hovertanks, teleporting artillery, and so on), though lower-tech stuff (a la Aliens would also do). I am specifically not interested in "alternate history" novels such as much of Harry Turtledove's stuff.

Thanx for your help!

[SirViss]

I would suggest David Webber's «Honor Harrington» series. I like the space battles of that series alot, and there are even a few good planet-based battles.

[Darth Sarcastic]

Almost anything by Steve Perry:

The Alien(s) War Series
The Matador Series (The Man Who Never Missed is a must)

I think Steve Perry's daughter (S.D. Perry) did a few Alien(s) books incl. an Aliens vs. Predator that wasn't half bad.

These are all mainly ground war type stories. Star Trek: Rogue Saucer and Ship of the Line are good ship battle stories.

[Rigel]

I would be remiss if I didn't mention Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. This book puts a very interesting spin on the classic space battle by training child geniuses through a series of games so they can lead the human fleets. Ender Wiggins is one of these young students and it is essentially his story. There are severl Ender novels out now, but I must admit I haven't read them. :)

There was also an athology of sci-fi war stories called Battlefields Beyond Tomorrow published back in 1987 or so. I bought it as a member of the SciFi Book Club. I have seen used copies around at bookstores and online from time to time. It's a great source of scifi war short stories, from authors such as Orson Scott Card (the original Ender's Game short story btw), Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Herbert, Jack Vance and so on. It's a great book for people like me that love the novella or short story format. I found a complete listing (http://hal.humberc.on.ca/~mrgn0038/watsfdb/cgi-bin/plist.cgi?WATBTTL) of the included stories online.

[Nato]

Don't forget to read The Stainless Steel Rat Gets Drafted just for kicks.

[Talon]

Niven's "Mote in God's Eye". Lots of military action with some specific technologies displayed, and usual Hard SF focus of Niven.

[BobGreenwade]

Absolutely, positively Robert Asprin's "Phule's Company" series -- Phule's Company, Phule's Paradise, Phule and His Money, and Phule Me Twice. They have the same tongue-in-cheeck approach as his "Myth" series, as well as the same wonderfully colorful characterizations and some good thoughts on how military functions might work in the future (okay, it's the Legion and not the Army, but you get the idea). On those rare occasions where the hardware takes center stage, it does so in a very interesting manner -- my personal favorite is the "instant base" in Phule Me Twice. :D

[Monolith]

I also liked the Honor Harrington series by David Webber. I think there were 10 books in that series.

David Webber (with Steve White) also did 4 books which encompass the Starfire Universe. The series covers a number of years from beginning to end, so you get a perspective of the entire immediate timeline as every race just continues returning to war.

[tengu]

There's also a pretty good book series by Rick Shelley... namely the Dirigent Mercenary Corps . Book titles are:
Officer Cadet
Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel

He's also written another series called Spec Ops Squad, but I haven't read any of that one as of yet.

[Derek Hiemforth]

In addition to his essential Starship Troopers, I'd add Heinlein's classic The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. It deals with civilian revolutionaries instead of an organized military, but many of the themes cross over.

[Nevenall]

I would recommend The Warrior’s Apprentice by Lois Bujold McMaster.
There are two other books that come before that one in the series, namely Shards of Honor and Barrayar, and lots more that come after, but it you only have time to read just one...

[Tom McCarthy]

http://www.concentric.net/~Los/ft/lossf.htm

Rot Hafen isn't conventionally published SF, but it's interesting to see Military SF written by an actual Special Ops soldier/instructor, and it really is an Alien War story.

You've got Armor, Starship Troopers, adn Forever War, so I'd say you've got 3 very distinct tones for the power armoured grunts. You've got that well covered.

Dune, for better or worse, had some things to say about how to build an elite fanatical unit of warriors, and those ideas have certainly been used by Games Workshop, among others.

[JohnTaber]

Hi Gents,

I have a great comic recommendation...

Alien Legion by Carl Potts - Footslogging group of misfits. Sort of a French Foreign Legion in space. Has a great Dirty Dozen flavor that I just love and the art from Cirocco and Stromann (later on) is just rad.

[Killer Shrike]

Bill the Galactic HERO?

{smirks}

[Lord Liaden]

The Dorsai novels by Gordon R. Dickson focus on a futuristic planet-nation of professional warriors, and deal with the hardware and tactics of warfare (more planet-based than starship based), but also on military training, mindset and philosophy. The first book in the series, Dorsai!, is considered one of the seminal works of the military sci-fi genre, along with Heinlein's Starship Troopers.

There's more starship combat in Fred Saberhagen's excellent Berserker series dealing with mankind's war with a race of sentient machines programmed to exterminate all organic life (Mechanon with a star fleet!) :eek: Ace Books collected many of his short stories into one volume, entitled Berserker, which would be particularly appropriate and useful.

I'd also recommend Keith Laumer's novel Bolo, the title of which refers to the artificially intelligent war machines created by mankind to help them fight off an alien invader. Good depiction of hardware, and discussion of the place of AIs as servants and allies of mankind.

[Tom Carman]

Originally posted by Nevenall
I would recommend The Warrior?s Apprentice by Lois Bujold McMaster.
There are two other books that come before that one in the series, namely Shards of Honor and Barrayar, and lots more that come after, but it you only have time to read just one...
Another good one is Brothers in Arms. Miles mentions that he avoids writing interim reports because they tend to result in additional orders, and he must either obey those new orders or waste valuable time and energy evading them while getting the job done. It also has some interesting scenes on logistics and bookkeeping for a mercenary force.

[BlackSword]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
The Dorsai novels by Gordon R. Dickson focus on a futuristic planet-nation of professional warriors, and deal with the hardware and tactics of warfare (more planet-based than starship based), but also on military training, mindset and philosophy. The first book in the series, Dorsai!, is considered one of the seminal works of the military sci-fi genre, along with Heinlein's Starship Troopers.

I was going to suggest the Dorsai series as well, but my computer at work dislikes posting (perhaps work dislikes me posting, hmm). I enjoyed the series. One of the other good books in the series is _Soldier, Ask Not_ as instead of dealing with a planet that exports well trained military experts, another planet ships out fanatics willing to die. More foot-soldiers as opposed to the military command or commando experience of the Dorsai.

[Steve Long]

I would be remiss if I didn't mention Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card.

No, I'd be remiss. I've got that, have read it many times, and love it. (The first sequel I disliked, often intensely; haven't read any of the others.)

Thanx for the suggestions, folx! Keep 'em comin', though I can guarantee I'll never have time to read all of 'em. I can always keep a list and get back to 'em later. ;)

[lemming]

Buck Godot, Zap Gun for Hire ;)

Most of my recommendations have already been mentioned.

Elizabeth Moon has a decent space series out as well.

[SuperPheemy]

<i>Heir to the Dragon</i> by Michael Stackpole and <i>Wolves on the Border</i> by Robert Charrette. Both are Battletech novels (so we're talking <i>very</i> rubber science) but were easy, entertaining reads focusing on two different takes on Warrior societies. The first being the Neo-Japanese Draconis Combine, and the second focusing on the Mercenary Battallion Wolf's Dragoons.

I imagine you'd be able to knock off both books in an afternoon. ;)

[Peregrine]

David Drake's Hammer's Slammers. Futuristic armored warfare (hovertanks), great treatment of mercenaries in an interstellar setting.

[AlHazred]

Lord Liaden beat me to the Bolo series by Keith Laumer, the main inspiration for Steve Jackson Games' Ogre game. A number of anthologies were produced of his stories. A few years ago, a publisher began producing a new series of anthologies with permission. The first two are okay, but after that I'd leave it for later. They're not bad, per se, just mediocre. Actually, I've always thought a Bolos-versus-Berserkers setting could be pretty interesting...

I'm going to suggest Brian Daley's The Doomfarers of Coramonde (1977) and The Starfollowers of Coramonde(1979). It's the story of a modern (for the 1970s) mercenary company transported by magic from the jungles of Viet Nam to a fantasy world. They're efforts to come to grips with the circumstances, and they're gradual attempts to improve the technology of their patrons, is an interesting take on low-tech military science fiction/fantasy. The same idea was used by Jerry Pournelle in his Janissaries series, except there the mercenaries are transported by aliens from the jungles of Africa.

One series to avoid is Piers Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant. It was billed to me by the clerk as military sci-fi. It's only resemblance to military sci-fi (or, indeed, good writing in general) is the fact that it uses English, and is located in a book store.

[BlackCobra]

I would heartily second and third the books of Lois McMaster Bujold, whom I only discovered recently and was completely swept away by.

I would also second the Elizabeth Moon books, particularly the ones she did with Anne McCaffrey (Sassinak, Generation Warriors, etc).

David Weber also wrote a good, if odd, military sci-fi book called Mutineer's Moon. It's a mix of high-end military SF and good old fashioned space-opera. It does have the distinction of the largest space ships ever seen in science-fiction (and I mean ALL of science-fiction).

[Confusinator]

John Ringo is a fairly new author that has a new series out.

It takes place in the near future when Earth is contacted by a friendly alien race reporting that an evil alien race is soon to invade. They help Earth develop new technology to fight the invaders. Nice blend of current technology and hard core SF stuff.

[Archon]

Weber and Ringo have a collaborative series called the March. It starts with March Upcountry, March to the Sea, and March to the Stars. 4 more books to go. I personally enjoyed them.

Weber's single creation "Path of the Fury" is also a good one. This one is mentioned in the old Ultimate Mentalist bibliography.

If you want to try "Mutineer's Moon," which is the first book of the Heirs of the Imperium, you can get the book for free as an ebook at baen.com in the Free Library.

[Aroooo]

Originally posted by JohnTaber
Hi Gents,

I have a great comic recommendation...

Alien Legion by Carl Potts - Footslogging group of misfits. Sort of a French Foreign Legion in space. Has a great Dirty Dozen flavor that I just love and the art from Cirocco and Stromann (later on) is just rad.

www.foot-sloggers.com, sanctioned by Carl Potts.

And I've got to second the Bolo series. Great treatment of AI's combined with really big powerful machines.

Aroooo

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by AlHazred
Actually, I've always thought a Bolos-versus-Berserkers setting could be pretty interesting...


Wow, what an image that just conjured for me: two races of sentient machines, one programmed to protect life, the other to exterminate it, locked in eternal war long after the races that created them are extinct. How poignantly tragic.

I'll have to work on this. :cool:

(Sorry for the preemption, Steve.) :o

[Nevenall]

There is a military sf web comic at www.schlockmercenary.com. It's a lot to slog through, but worth it. Especially if you start at the beganning. Besides being funny, there is some well though out and interesting weapons technology.

[Lord Mhoram]

Originally posted by Steve Long
No, I'd be remiss. I've got that, have read it many times, and love it. (The first sequel I disliked, often intensely; haven't read any of the others.)


I'd second the Ender's Game, Dorsai and Mote In God's Eye. And while they are "someone elses propery" the X wing books by Stackpole and Allston are really fun. Fighter pilot space combat, lots of combat details and ship to ship battles.

I'd also recomend the Gap Series by Donaldson. Like his other works it is very adult, and sometimes too sexual, but it has some really nice space battles and tactics.

I'd also recomend the comic book Sigil from Crossgen. Space opera and lots of combat.

In reference to the Enders books (and not military SF in particular), if you didn't like the first sequel skip the next two, but do read Ender's Shadow. It is set during Ender's game, and is told from the pov of Bean.

[KawangaKid]

MILITARY Stuff - there was a good compilation on Military SF in particular in the past year. Something like "The Year's Best Military SF" or something like that.

Also, I liked Babylon 5's approach to the military - having ground pounders and the space fleets, etc..

[Tom McCarthy]

Gregory Benford has an arc of novels which include bands of refugee or nomadic humans trying to survive after the robots have ejected them from the cities they built. Essentially, the AIs have decided to eliminate them and they are struggling to survive and find a way off planet.

This is the fringe of military SF, since it's SF, combined with tactics and combat, but with more 'pack' culture than military heirarchy culture.

[GreyGuardian]

I have to toss in a vote for the Lois Bujold series. Absolutely great space opera / military science fiction.

Timothy Zahn has done quite a few military SF novels in his Cobra Series and some of his other novels. In general a good hard science - science fiction author.

Also have to say that babylon 5 has some excellent military and diplomatic action that is relevant.

[Old Man]

I'll Second David Weber's Path of the Fury. The most interesting and fun drive system for ships in sci-fi.

I would highly recommend David Drake's The General series: The Hammer, The Anvil, The Forge, The Steel, The Sword. Very well done military series.

[Spence]

Most of my favorites are already listed but....

Originally posted by Monolith

David Webber (with Steve White) also did 4 books which encompass the Starfire Universe. The series covers a number of years from beginning to end, so you get a perspective of the entire immediate timeline as every race just continues returning to war.

Insurrection
Crusade
In Death Ground
The Shiva Option

The first two ( I & C ) are complete stories each describing complete campaigns. IDG and TSO are part one and two of a single campaign/war. The emphasis of the stories is Fleet actions. Fleets with a capital F. These are really good reads, especially if you like fleet level carnage :D

Also John Ringo's series A Hymn Before Battle, Gust Front, When the Devil Dances and Hell's Faire are pretty good.

And last but not least all seven of Debra Doyle and James D. MacDonalds Mageworld novels are really good scifi.

[Mightybec]

Althought it's probably not what you're looking for, the Lost Regiment series by William Forstchen was the best series I've ever read.

Mightybec

[gewing]

2 good ones!

Also David drakes "ranks of bronze", and "foreign legions" and David Webber's "Excaliber option"

HUman low techs kidnapped to serve as janissaries in space.



Originally posted by AlHazred
snip

I'm going to suggest Brian Daley's The Doomfarers of Coramonde (1977) and The Starfollowers of Coramonde(1979). It's the story of a modern (for the 1970s) mercenary company transported by magic from the jungles of Viet Nam to a fantasy world. They're efforts to come to grips with the circumstances, and they're gradual attempts to improve the technology of their patrons, is an interesting take on low-tech military science fiction/fantasy. The same idea was used by Jerry Pournelle in his Janissaries series, except there the mercenaries are transported by aliens from the jungles of Africa.

snip.

[gewing]

In some ways Path of the fury is one of his very best.

And I love them all. :)


Originally posted by Archon
Weber and Ringo have a collaborative series called the March. It starts with March Upcountry, March to the Sea, and March to the Stars. 4 more books to go. I personally enjoyed them.

Weber's single creation "Path of the Fury" is also a good one. This one is mentioned in the old Ultimate Mentalist bibliography.

If you want to try "Mutineer's Moon," which is the first book of the Heirs of the Imperium, you can get the book for free as an ebook at baen.com in the Free Library.

[TheEmerged]

I apologize if these have been mentioned, I don't have time to read the rest of the thread thoroughly.

"Future War". Short story collection editted by Jack Dann & Gardner Dozois. A little closer to modern technology than most people would consider Sci-Fi, but there are lessons to be learned from some of the scenarios.

There Will Be War (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812509005/qid=1056080749/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/002-9947413-1990442?v=glance&s=books). Never actually read this myself, but I've had it recommended to me so many times it's on my "really oughta read someday" list.

[Starwolf]

The Siege of Earth by John Faucette, a great story combining land, air, and space warfare in the far future, as it applies to a planetary siege operation. Also the Wing Commander novels by Mercedes Lackay, tells of outstanding carrier based space warfare. :cool:

[Starwolf]

Sheesh, I almost forgot the most important novel of them all The Voyage of the Starwolf by David Gerrold delves into leadership, crew morale, and lots of space hardware and combat.:D

[AlHazred]

Speaking of David Gerrold, his War Against the Chtorr series would probably be good reading for preparation for Alien Wars. Try to get the first run of books. He produced three, then had writer's block. A few years afterward, he came out with book four, and took the opportunity to go back and rewrite the first three. In my opinion, his first run was a better, tighter, series; in his revised books, he has too many sidetracks into alternative lifestyles and bizzare sexualities. He's better with action, and less good with preachy philosophical asides.

[Agent Escafarc]

Let me add the Starfist series by David Sherman & Dan Cragg. Chameleon suits, Dragons, and Raptors rule:D

[TechnoViking]

Most of the solo work by Jerry Pournelle is good military sci-fi.

I would also suggest:
Planet Run by Keith Laumer and Gordpn Dickson
Tactics of Mistake by Gordon Dickson

There is a couple of good compulations editted by Gardner Dozois: Space Soldiers & Future War. I like these the best since I think the short story and novella is the best format for military sci-fi.

I also would add a vote John Ringo, I think he is writing the best military sci-fi currently being published.

[Mark Taylor]

Anybody mentioned Iain M. Banks's Consider Phlebas and Use of Weapons? Some other of Banks's novels would probably be appropriate too, but these two are the most military-themed in nature, especially Weapons.

[Spence]

AAARrrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

All these titles and only four. FOUR! I haven't read.....

:( :(

All I can say is someone better get to writing.

[Lord Mhoram]

While not exactly in the vein you were after Steve, a good book to put into the bibliography (and that you should read just because it is good) is The Uplift War by David Brinn. There is some frontline action, but it is about a planet being blockaded and invaded. Has a lot of nifty stuff about the consequences of war, and some cool social things going on by the conquerers. As well as a lot of stuff on people in hiding.

[Mark Taylor]

Originally posted by Spence
AAARrrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

All these titles and only four. FOUR! I haven't read.....

:( :(

All I can say is someone better get to writing.

Which four?

[Gandalf5]

...heard Pournelle mentioned and would definitely recommend Falkenberg's Legion. Bujold and Weber are mainstays, and Bujold's works go beyond the military genre. I also enjoyed Moon and Ringo, and the various collaborations those two did with others, especially the Weber/Ringo series. While not really military SF, I'd also recommend James Alan Gardner's Expendable and subsequent titles. Ender's Game is one of my desert island books (along with the Stand and, of course, Tolkien's collected works) and I thought Ender's Shadow was also quite good, but never really enjoyed Speaker..., Xenocide, etc.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Spence
All these titles and only four. FOUR! I haven't read..... Would those be (or at least include) the Phule's Company books I cited? (Just curious; nobody else seems to be seconding it or even addressing it in any other way.)
All I can say is someone better get to writing. Well, I do have an unpublished series of my own; but I guess that's not very helpful, eh? :)

[danbuter]

Another couple recommendations:

C. J. Cherryh Downbelow Station - seriously, if you haven't read this, go out and buy it right now!
Jerry Pournelle Falkenberg's Legion

[gewing]

I really enjoyed the first book, the second was not as good, I have but have not read the most recent.



Originally posted by BobGreenwade
Would those be (or at least include) the Phule's Company books I cited? (Just curious; nobody else seems to be seconding it or even addressing it in any other way.) Well, I do have an unpublished series of my own; but I guess that's not very helpful, eh? :)

[TechnoGothic]

dont know if this is what you mean by military, but i saw a Few B5 books today in Bares&Nobles, and Books a Million, about the Shadow War, and Ranger Quests and the like...

you might want to check for them..

[tmutant]

David Drake's "Thin Red Line": Good story, very interesting weapons (Grenades based on electrical resistance, amongst others.)

E. E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman series: Deals with deveoping tactics for space combat, power armored space marines fighting boarding actions with axes and ray guns (he wrote this stuff before lasers were invented. It's still interesting reading.) Lots of interesting aliens, and the different tactics and styles they bring to conflict. Classic space opera.

[Andrew_A]

I know she's already been mentioned, but Elizabeth Moon's books are really good for understanding military culture (She used to be in the marines).

Check out Once a Hero and Rules of Engagement.

[Al_Beddow]

John Ringo's series of books:
- A Hymn Before Battle
- Gust Front
- When the Devil Dances
- Hell's Faire

These books do an excellent job of combining our modern day military equipment with gear and tactics from the "Galactic Alliance" (or whatever it's called).

David Webber and John Ringo have co-written a set of books:
- March Upcountry
- March to the Sea
- March to the Stars (coming out soon)

The first two are excellent and I'm waiting on the third one to come out.

[Archon]

Originally posted by Al_Beddow
John David Webber and John Ringo have co-written a set of books:
- March Upcountry
- March to the Sea
- March to the Stars (coming out soon)

The first two are excellent and I'm waiting on the third one to come out.

Al,

March to the Stars has been out for 6 months plus unless you're waiting for the paperback.

Archon

[Dauntless]

Several people recommended anything by Peter Hamilton, author of the Night Dawn Trilogy and Fallen Dragon . They recommended it because I was looking for some realistic depictions of starship combat. I got like 5 people who recommended it immediately.

I just bought Fallen Dragon a few days ago and have only read a few pages, so I can't say anything about it myself, but the guys over at gamedev.net sure loved it.

While I was at the bookstore, I also saw the official prequel book for the console game Halo. It actually seemed pretty interesting. I forgot the author's name, but the title of the book is, The Fall of Reach.

I'd be remiss in not talking about the Battletech series of novels. The best military usage are the Twillight of the Clans series of books by varios authors (amongst them being Michael Stackpole and Blaine Lee Pardoe).

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by tmutant
E. E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman series

I don't know, especially near the end those got to be a bit mroe Galactic Champions than Alien Wars. Although, come to think of it, that could work if my memory of the time line hasn't gotten muddled again.