Movie Hulk Estimated Strength- Hero style

[cboscari]

I was reading in the back of popular science that by the writer's estimates from the clip of the hulk throwing the tank off into the distance, that he computes that to throw a 60 ton tank 2000 feet in two seconds requires 100,000 hp. I grabbed by Hero 5th, and decided to see what the Movie hulk's strength would have to be to do the same feat. I come up with a STR of 212 to throw a 50-ton tank 308 hexes. That's a little higher that the 70 STR I've seen. Wow! Would you let the movie Hulk into your campaign? :) HULK SMASH PUNY 70STR BRICK!!!!!
Chris

[Hermit]

Hey, we don't have all the facts now... the tank could have 10" of gliding ;)

[Monolith]

The problem is not the Hulk's strength. The problem is the HERO throwing rules; they just do not allow for the incredible throws which are sometimes performed by mega-bricks in comic books. I am hoping that one of the things the Ultimate Brick will have is expanded throwing rules section to cover those types of comic book events. Only time will tell though.

[Killer Shrike]

An Extended Range RKA perhaps, OIF: Tanks of Opportunity?

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
A megascaled RKA perhaps, OIF: Tanks of Opportunity?
That would probably do it. :)

I think on the old boards I wrote a Super-Throw power for bricks as something along the lines of 1" FLIGHT, UAA, Mega-Scale, Instant, Gestures. That way you could throw just about anyone a kilometer (add more Flight if you want them to go farther). Too bad I did not bother to write that up for the USPD database. :)

[Agent X]

We just use the Mayfair DC system for throwing. You just steal their chart, divide strength by 5 and follow the distance for the weight of the item.

Of course: The Hulk should be much stronger when enraged than the listed strength of Grond and just as strong to begin with.:)

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Monolith
The problem is not the Hulk's strength. The problem is the HERO throwing rules; they just do not allow for the incredible throws which are sometimes performed by mega-bricks in comic books. I am hoping that one of the things the Ultimate Brick will have is expanded throwing rules section to cover those types of comic book events. Only time will tell though.

Maybe the book should have a sort of "Haymaker throw" , distance instead of DCs added on?

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Hermit
Maybe the book should have a sort of "Haymaker throw" , distance instead of DCs added on?
Something like that might work. State you are making a "Haymaker Throw," take the extra segment and your throwing distance is multiplied by 10; but you do no extra damage. That would at least give the player the feel of a real mega-throw.

[Enforcer84]

Someone made another version of super throw, it was basically leaping, +1" per 1 pt.

[dbcowboy]

Originally posted by cboscari
I was reading in the back of popular science that by the writer's estimates from the clip of the hulk throwing the tank off into the distance, that he computes that to throw a 60 ton tank 2000 feet in two seconds requires 100,000 hp. I grabbed by Hero 5th, and decided to see what the Movie hulk's strength would have to be to do the same feat. I come up with a STR of 212 to throw a 50-ton tank 308 hexes. That's a little higher that the 70 STR I've seen. Wow! Would you let the movie Hulk into your campaign? :) HULK SMASH PUNY 70STR BRICK!!!!!
Chris

I think you're mistaken. If I read the throwing chart right, the distance a character can throw a object (running throw) is 80% of their Str (ie. 25 extra Str = 20" thrown). So, to throw something 304.8 hexes (2000ftx(0.3048m/ft)x(1hex/2m)) takes ~ 380 extra Str. Then add the strength necessary to lift the object in the first place (either 55 or 60 Str depending on whether you round up or down for a 60 ton tank) and you get something like 435 - 440 Str. Course, that's giving him the benefit of a running throw which I think is okay considering he spun the thing around a couple of times to pick up momentum before he actually let go.

Somebody check my math, it's been a while.

[cboscari]

I used running throw because he took a step or two. I could have added it up wrong, anyone got something different? Still... 435?! HULK SMASH GROND!!!! ;)
Chris

[dbcowboy]

After reviewing the throwing table some more, the thing that I find odd is that the amount a character can lift doubles for every 5 pts of Str but the distance a character can throw doubles every (Str*2) pts. That's a big difference in the way they increase.

[Blue Jogger]

In Champions, with 75 STR, you can pick up a tank, drop it on a normal human, and he's got a pretty good chance of surviving 15 dice if he gets immediate medical attention (within a couple of turns). :D
(a cruel GM adds a few more dice for the weight of the tank.)

Personally, I think the throwing chart is designed with the idea that a standard hex map only has about 30 hexes across. ;)

With the new rules, the players have been toying with the idea of trying Strength with one level of MegaScale for that "I launch it back into orbit" and "leap tall buildings in a single bound". However, the GM should not use MegaScale lightly.

Blue

[cboscari]

Thanks, Blue Jogger. I was going to say that after thinking about it, Some kind of megascale power tied to throwing would simulate it pretty well, as a "Strength Trick" that couldn't be used as a weapon maybe. You know, just to throw junk around. I like that idea. Looks like everyone else is already way ahead of me as usual on these things. :)
Chris

[Lord Liaden]

I already have a couple of brick characters in my campaign built with MegaScale on their Strength to allow for exceptional throwing distance. The trick is not to have MegaScale apply all the time, since it would make STR unusable for HTH combat or any other common use on a personal scale. One of our characters has MegaScale as a Naked Advantage, while the other has it as part of Variable Advantages. My ruling is that after a character picks up an object or Grabs an opponent, he would have to "switch" to MegaScale for the really long throw. Since the Grab is an attack action, the character has to wait until his next Phase before he can switch the Advantage; we run this delay as the character "winding up." A Grabbed victim could use the interim to try to escape from the Grab, or the thrower could be attacked by the victim's allies before he lets fly - this is intended to help balance the potential for a combatant being thrown so far that he can't get back to the combat before it's finished.

I also restrict the MegaScale distance to throwing, not Leaping based on Strength, because the system already has a Power and mechanism for enhanced Leaping.

[Agent X]

I think it's really simple. I can throw a football x number of yards and let's say I would be represented as a person with a 10 strength (heh, not likely). If Grond has a strength of 90, he is roughly 64,000 times as strong as me. If I can throw a football 50 yards he should be able to throw it 3,200,000 yards which is, what, edging toward two thousand miles?

I haven't studied up too much on throwing in 5E - has it taken this into account?

[Lord Liaden]

I remember a discussion of the rationale for relative throwing distances on the old boards. One poster who was a former college football linebacker remarked that although he was more than twice as strong as the team quarterback in terms of what he could lift, the quarterback could throw a football multiples of the distance that he could. The argument was that throwing for distance is at least as much a matter of talent and skill as it is raw strength. The same thing applies to jumping long distances; I've always noticed that the Hulk's ability to travel by enormous leaps far exceeds that of most other Marvel characters who are otherwise of comparable strength to him.

IMHO it's a good thing that HERO Leaping rules do not grant exceptional distances based solely on Strength, but can add that ability to characters if their concept justifies it; there's a reasonable rationale for it, and there are already enough benefits to high Strength. The same reasoning should apply to extra-long throws, via some mechanism like the ones already suggested on this thread.

As always, YMMV. :)

[Rook]

Originally posted by Agent X
We just use the Mayfair DC system for throwing. You just steal their chart, divide strength by 5 and follow the distance for the weight of the item.

This seems like a good solution to me. Using this system, a character would need 100 strength to perform this feat in Hero. Sounds about right to me.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Rook
This seems like a good solution to me. Using this system, a character would need 100 strength to perform this feat in Hero. Sounds about right to me. Yep. I love Hero but I have found some of the old systems had some gems that Hero has never quite matched or only recently tried to.

[megaplayboy]

well, the distance you can throw an object is dependent on the velocity you impart to it. increasing distance by two times requires 4x as much strength. So, if I can throw a football 50 yards, and someone 100x stronger could throw it 500 yards...then to throw a 70 ton tank 500 yards...hmm..if 60 STR = 5 yards, then it would take 100x the velocity to travel 500 yards, so 10,000 times the strength to throw it 5 yards; about 125 STR! So the 130 STR of the enraged hulk in the gametrader writeup seems about right to me:D

[Tom McCarthy]

In a related vein...

I'm reading the TPB of Avengers: The Korvac Saga. In a battle at the harbour, a villain punches Ms. Marvel and she lands "hundreds of yards away". Even if she is flying (-1D6 on knockback), no one in Champions should hit hard enough to knock someone back hundreds of yards (100"+).

A rudimentary knowledge of physics might be the basis of that throwing table. To lift an object, you give it potential energy (PE). PE doubles as the mass of the object doubles; +5 STR lifts twice as much because you can give twice the energy. To throw something twice as far (assuming a relatively horizontal throw), you need to give it twice the velocity. But twice the velocity is actually 4 times the energy (since this is kinetic energy (KE), and KE is a function of mass times velocity squared). So, twice the distance takes +10 STR.

A skillful thrower might be able to pick the optimum angle at which to throw; it really does vary a bit based on the aerodynamic properties of the object and how well you can exert your strength (some objects are so easily accelerated, you can't effectively throw with all your strength, etc.). Given the right angle, it really is more like twice the KE/twice the STR gives twice the distance.

[dbcowboy]

I have to agree. I've been playing with the numbers a little bit more since my last post and I like the way they play out when you have distance double every +10 Str (4x as strong). That's for a running throw, standing doubles at +15 Str and prone at +20. This seems to play better with my idea of comic book superhero physics.

[Zaratustra]

Check the 'Throwing' thread for my take on it.

[Klytus]

Originally posted by Agent X
We just use the Mayfair DC system for throwing. You just steal their chart, divide strength by 5 and follow the distance for the weight of the item.


Is this the same chart that has Superman being able to throw a cheeseburger into the next galaxy?

[DocMan]

Seeing as the different components of the cheesburger have varying degrees of aerodynamic sculpting, I think Supes would be lucky to be able to throw a cheesburger to the next block.

But it does make me wonder who started the food fight...

Doc

[megaplayboy]

I'm not sure wind resistance is a major factor vis a vis' comic book physics:D


BUT, you could simply halve distance for unbalanced, and halve it again for non-aerodynamic objects...that way there's a limit to how far you can throw bulky objects...

[jeddy]

This is an interesting discussion, what with all the talk of realism and such.

However, not to be a drag, but how could ol' Hulk even swing a 60 ton tank in circles in the first place? I mean, the outward force of that thing would tear his hands off, assuming his feet could even find grip on the dirt. Unless he weighs 60+ tons as well of course. ;]

We try not to think too much about realism in our games. If we can, we try and figure out how things should work. If it becomes a lot of work, or bogs down the fight, physics takes a back seat to what would be the most fun.

[The Mad GM]

STR, x16 "KB", only for throws (-1)?

[MisterD]

I gave up on trying to do HULK type bricks when my calculator smacked me in the face and told me it will not be doable in 250 (now 350) character points to make it equal to HULK from movie, Tv, or Comic so live with it.

Now instead of thinking how would I do the hulk I think What do I want my character to be able to do and how can I do it within character concept and character sheet.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Klytus
Is this the same chart that has Superman being able to throw a cheeseburger into the next galaxy? Sounds about right.

[Captain Xenon]

on the tank-throwing, i think its obvious from the way the hulk swings the tank in a 360 before he throws it, that hes using a haymaker throw.

also, it seems the movie hulk has absortion (physical) which increases his growth (and therefore his strength). he visibly grows when shot with automatic rifles in one scene.

the most reality-defying part of the movie is the hulks pants. they go from pants to shorts and back, and yet the waist still fits. what kind of super-elastic material is that?

[Bob Dog]

I don't think the general movie going audience is ready for a pantless Hulk.
It's something I could live without as well.

[Hermit]

Green Moon....
you left me sitting confused
without a clue where I was...
and this without any booze

[dbsousa]

as far as the pants go, blame the internet...

USA Today Article (http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/2003-06-19-movies-cover_x.htm)

[Galadorn]

Originally posted by Bob Dog
I don't think the general movie going audience is ready for a pantless Hulk.
It's something I could live without as well.

I agree, save my poor eyes. lol. Sometimes I think people go too far with realism, this is comics!!! LOL When's the last time you saw an 12 foot tall green-skinned mugger in an alleyway?

BTW did you notice in the one scene with the mutated dogs, that the hulk grew and turned darker green? Cool.

[Bob Dog]

Originally posted by dbsousa
as far as the pants go, blame the internet...

USA Today Article (http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/2003-06-19-movies-cover_x.htm)

I'm glad.
It's about time people in the industry started listening to the fans.
Just think how much better the Star Wars films would have been if they did.

[Arandmoor_Keet]

The 5e book has an example for "super-throws"

Just take the flight power, add the UAA advantage, and a limiter "Only on what the character can lift" for like -1/2 or so...

The hulk would have it at like 2" (more like 20"...but he only wanted to huck the tank 2 km instead of to the seaboard) with the megascale advantage...

Arandmoor Keet

[Snarf]

They should've done product placement on the pants. Levis Mega Stretch! One size fits all!

What's the best way to simulate more anger making someone more powerful? Absorbtion to fuel growth? Different levels of accidental transform?

[Galadorn]

Originally posted by dbsousa
as far as the pants go, blame the internet...

USA Today Article (http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/2003-06-19-movies-cover_x.htm)

Awesome. Jar Jar Binks needed to be done away with, to bad he wasn't.

I think Daredevil was done fairly well. What do you folks think?

Juries still out on the Incredible Hulk for me. I never like his comics anyway, too depressing and moody. I could only read them for so long. I'd give the movie a B or C+.

Take Care. :)