very basic knockback Q

[secretID]

I'm probably just missing this somewhere in the rules:
If no damage gets through the target's defenses, is there still knockback? I would think not, but I can't find that restriction in the rules.

[Lord Liaden]

There certainly can be. Knockback is based on the Body total rolled on the Damage dice for an attack, not on whether or not any of that Body damage gets through to the target. A character may be completely unhurt Stun or Bodywise by an attack, but if he wasn't braced against the Knockback done by it or has no Knockback Resistance he can still be sent flying. One of the reasons the Increased Knockback Advantage can be so nasty.

[Rapier]

KB is a funny thing. Week after week we spend time in battle. You might take a couple STUN here and a couple STUN there, but we get BOUNCED all over the darned place!

Thank god for Breakfall. Heck, I'm considering purchasing a couple " of KB Resistance!

You don't know funny until you've seen a guy with only HtH attacks that keeps getting Knocked Back the distance of just over a half-move. It's YO-YO-MAN!

[SCUBA Hero]

5ER, page 418: "Use the total amount of BODY rolled on the attack dice, regardless of the target's defenses ... The one exception is if the damage has to first penetrate a barrier, such as a wall or Force Wall. in that case, base the Knockback on the BODY damage that gets through the barrier."

So yes, no-damage hits still do Knockback.

-SCUBA "Helpful" Hero

[Sean Waters]

Knockback assumes that the damage done by the attack in terms of BODY is directly related to the momentum of the attack and that momentum is transferred in a reasonably defined way.

That is a very generic approximation.

I think I would rather see the base state as attacks doing knockdown*, with an advantage (+1/4 probably) to allow then to do KB, wiht double KB staying where it is at +3/4. Otherwise things tend to get very silly in higher powered games, where KB becomes an inevitability.



*which would also remove one artifical distinction between heroic and superheroic games.

[Lord_Winter]

Uhm... sorry for the dumb question... but... Breakfall is used only to jump up from the Knockback as a Zero-Phase action or maybe also used for reduce/halve the KD damage?

[SCUBA Hero]

5ER, page 421: "A character who's not unconscious or Stunned may attempt a Breakfall roll at -1 per 2" of Knockback to avoid taking damage from Knockback. If the roll suceeds, the character takes no damage. He also lands on his feet, so he doesn't have to waste a Half-Phase Action to re-orient himself. Breakfall doesn't help a character who hits a wall or other object, however."

So one Breakfall roll saves the Half-Phase to jump back up and negates the damage - but only if the character isn't slammed into something.

-SCUBA "Helpful" Hero