The Superheroine: Cheesecake or Comrade-In-Arms?

[Steve]

When the word superheroine is mentioned, I suppose most would picture the likes of Wonder Woman or Supergirl from DC Comics, perhaps She-Hulk or Storm from Marvel Comics, or maybe even Fairchild from Gen 13 by Image Comics.

What makes a superheroine cheesecake? DC's Power Girl is probably the poster child for this, since one of the first things noticed about her is the "Magic Cleavage Window" on her costume. Gen 13's Fairchild had a habit of getting her clothing blasted or ripped off her body in any number of ways. But other superheroines get treated with more respect by writers and artists. Wonder Woman doesn't seem to get her clothing compromised much, and neither does Supergirl.

So how are superheroines treated in your RPG campaigns? Cheesecake or Comrade-In-Arms? Do they tend to be women with magical cleavage powers? Or are they more realistic in their builds? How do NPCs and other PCs treat them? And what's the table talk like OOC concerning the female members of the superteam?

[keithcurtis]

Since the RPG is not nearly so visual a medium as comics, there is less of a reason/opportunity to ogle. Also, our table had a pretty even player gender split, so there was less of a tendency to locker-room talk. Comrade -in-arms.

Keith "Except Barbara's characters, who were always lesbians, whether she knew it or not." Curtis

[Hermit]

I put sometimes one, sometimes the other, but as at least half my players in my F2F game are female, male superhero NPCs are just as likely to be beefcake. As a rule, both genders are attractive. You don't see too many superheroines with flat chests and buck teeth, and it is rare to see superheroes with beer guts or baldspots.

Its shallow and/or escapist at times, but I try to be evenhanded in it.

[pinecone]

Comrade in arms...being a chick is not a disadd. If you want stuff like that you take Distinctive looks: Loses clothes at inopurtune moments......

[Trebuchet]

In our campaign the two females are the acting team leader and the brick. So, no, they're definitely not cheesecake. Both are better than average looking, but that's merely genre.

[OddHat]

I've had female players in every campaign for the last 20+ years. So, usually Comrade in Arms. There are sexy and sexually active male and female PCs and NPCs, but they're never just cheesecake.

[assault]

Comrade in Arms. Some of whom could double for cheesecake in the right situation, I'm sure. But, as Keith has pointed out, RPGs aren't as visual a form as comics, so that fact doesn't really matter.

Then again, my male characters usually buy up their COM. Because it's genre, and because they can.

BTW, Power Girl has always been a bit of a contradiction, since while she has traditionally been drawn in a cheesecake manner, she has also usually been one of the most assertive female characters. This set her apart from Supergirl, who was more "demure" in both appearance and manners.

[Enforcer84]

I'm the cheesecake in my games. *flexes* rar.








no, I didn't mean to say beefcake!

[Weldun]

I had to vote for a little of both, but then I game with some artistically inclined individuals.

[jkwleisemann]

I have to 'fess to 'em being a little of both - frequently at the same time. I play these games to escape, after all, and so I tend to play characters I think are attractive in one way or another... frequently physically.

On the other hand, they're never *just* cheesecake unless I'm making 'em for a joke game. Male or female, I don't do characters just for looks. If clothes are getting mussed, it's probably for a good reason (establishing power level, for example).

On the other hand, Dom-Bo Derrik, in my "Scales out of Balance" campaign, is definitely cheesecake... of course, she's also a supermodel in her secret ID, so I certainly don't hold that against her player. ;)

[Badger]

I'm the cheesecake in my games. *flexes* rar.








no, I didn't mean to say beefcake!


You enjoy disturbing our minds dont you Enforcer?

[OddHat]

You enjoy disturbing our minds dont you Enforcer?

He took "Craft Disturbing Mental Image" on his last level up.

[Karmakaze]

On the other hand, they're never *just* cheesecake unless I'm making 'em for a joke game. Male or female, I don't do characters just for looks. If clothes are getting mussed, it's probably for a good reason (establishing power level, for example).

As a female player, I tend not to do pure cheesecake.

On the other hand, in one of the games I am in, an awful lot of the gameplay centers around my character's secret ID as a stripper....

[AmadanNaBriona]

A bit o' this, and a bit o' that.
My old GF was a longtime member of our HERO group, and she enjoyed playing cheesecake characters. Heck, she enjoyed going to Cons becasue at cons she got to be cheesecake if she wanted. Her characters were always fully contributing to the game experience, even when she was playing the damsel in distress types...
My Genre Feind nature kinda wore off on her. If she was gonna play the Native Princess, then its all improbable escapes at inoppourtune moments. Not always, or even often "just one of the guys" unless it was a predesigned element of the character. She always made plot drivers... Half of our Star Hero campaign came out of dealing with her Rock Star Empath's hunteds.
But no matter what, her characters all had an element of cheesecake about them
Her Champions character, Olympia, was our teams brick and one of our lynchpin fighters, but still looked like a 16 year old gymnast, and we had problems coming up with costume materials tough enought to stand up to the abuse she inflicted on it. I kinda suspect she got into a lot of her costume destroying circumstances on purpose.
Like said, she was a genre feind :smoke:

Most of the women I've gamed with have been in about the same camp, tho with different tilts of perspective

[Blue Jogger]

I remember one time, playing Shaylee, that I was trying to "Comrade-In-Arms" and flubbed completely into Cheesecake role.

She had the skill KS: Common Uniforms and the "Transform clothing into any other clothing". The idea being that she didn't quite have disguise, but the ability to be suddenly wearing a police uniform, a fire department uniform, or just a delivery worker uniform.

So, she goes to talk to someone, she couldn't appear in her Fae form (since she had been told to keep a low profile) and she couldn't just appear as a random college student. So, obviously, a change into police uniform would be helpful.

Blew the roll, the GM decided that the uniform was too flattering and looked too much like a stripper wearing a police uniform... Which, in the end, made the person much more willing to talk.

[Vondy]

In my Freedom Patrol campaign (four interelated campaigns, really) the first team was comprised of four female characters and two male characters. Also, the two male characters were a commando par excellance and a martial artist, and while they were very effective, the superheroines were the one's with the power-suites. In the following games the ratio switched the other direction, but there were always strong female characters who seved as comrades in arms, and the original team (at the request of the players) became significant NPCs (and minor celebrities with the players) as well. They were sexy, had romantic storylines, and remained extremely competent. They were never treated as cheesecake. On the other hand: Cheesecake-in-Arms; Comrades-in-Cheese. I'm sorry, what was the question?

[Kevin Schultz]

The one time I had a player do a pure cheescake character, I ended up being mildly embarassed throughout the entire campaign - not because of the actual images he was describing (most of which were just kinda juvenile), but empathic embarassment for the way he was acting.

[wrestlinggeek]

I have never had a player, in any game, play a pure cheese-cake character. However, In almost every game I've been involved in, the GM (whether myself or someone else, male or female) had at least one cheese-cake NPC. So I voted for sometimes one, sometimes the other, and sometimes both at the same time. Not to mention that just about every superhero character is better than average-looking. Unless looking like a monster is part of their character concept. Of course, being covered in fur or something like that doesn't automaticly mean a woman can't be a little cheese-cake. Just look at Marvel Comics' Tigra.

[Weldun]

Of course, being covered in fur or something like that doesn't automaticly mean a woman can't be a little cheese-cake. Just look at Marvel Comics' Tigra.or Felicity. *mreow!* :luv:
Does anyone else remember the Omega-men?

[st barbara]

Interesting question. "St Barbara" has been considered "cheesecake" for a long time. Hell, she did it for a living before she obtained super powers ! However she is also leader of "Team Zenith 3" and tries to treat her teammates as "comrades in arms"(possibly because it saves complications). This can cause problems at times. Recently for example she had a lawyer who was cross examining her during a court case ask her for a date !(DURING the cross examination!)

[Cancer]

Comrades-in-Cheese.
I like that term, though it strikes me as referring to munchkinesque plot turns rather than a reference to eye-candy-dom.

The female characters in our games tend to be comrades. I mean, if the Brick is female and happens to act trampy, she's still the Brick, and if you get her torqued off, she'll break you in two.

We tend to be free of approximately any visual aids in our gameplay, so that largely rules out the cheesecake angle.

[MilkmanDan]

Well, physical attractiveness is in-genre regardless of whether it's male or female. Supers are supposed to fit spandex well, right, so high COM all-around.

My female characters have always been capable fighters who generally had at least a reasonably high COM.

If only I could make myself more attractive at the measly cost of a half-point per point of COM . . .

[Mojo_Bones]

I have only had comrade-in-arms in my games, although I have had a few "love interests" in my games. They were always done in a pretty realistic manner so it never had a cheesecake feel to it.

[input.jack]

Our game group has male and female Players, and everyone in the group is cool with playing characters of either gender. That said, PCs are just as likely to cheese/beef-cake themselves as NPCs, depending on the situation and personality of the characters involved. We have FOUR artists in our game group, so we have -very- well documented campaigns!

Basically, it just depends on the character.

[BoloOfEarth]

I voted for both. One female player in my Champions campaign always draws up high-COM characters (IIRC, her lowest was COM 20, the highest 34 COM). This has gone on for at least the last 4-5 characters over the past 17 years. She's a vital part of the team, but her "super-model" looks also generate some cheesecake moments in play.

[gojira]

Should be the latter, too often the former. I don't see why it can't be both however! :D

[Stormraven]

It can be both. Let's not forget that, while Caitlin does often lose parts of her costume or clothing, she's also the team leader, and the one everyone else in the team looks to - and is an MIT/Princeton level genius, which is shown quite frequently.

[Mulgar]

Sheesh, I prefer Cheesecake in Arms myself

[Enforcer84]

You enjoy disturbing our minds dont you Enforcer?

Yes.


He took "Craft Disturbing Mental Image" on his last level up.

Indeed.


:eg:

[st barbara]

Sheesh, I prefer Cheesecake in Arms myself
Cheesecake all over your arms ? Sounds like a bit of a "sticky situation" to me !:p

[Weldun]

If you are already involved with someone, it is. :D

[Mulgar]

Not a problem if your cheesecake likes the cheesecake. :drink::celebrate

[Weldun]

Unfortunately, it's not as common as we would like.:whistle:

[Mulgar]

Unfortunately, it's not as common as we would like.:whistle:

Hey speak for your self :D

[Bloodstone]

Just some random observations:

- My wife tends to play cheesecake PC's. This is not to say they lack depth, but they all tend to be extremely attractive and outgoing, some of them downright exhibitionists.

- We also play City of Heroes together. She is has on several occasions been accused of being a guy because of the way she dresses her female characters, as well as the proportions she gives them.

- In one of my current groups, the highest COM on the team is 16. This stat is possessed by two different characters, both male.

- One of those characters, Chimera, is prone to walking around only half dressed. He's a metamorph and his clothing shreds when he changes. Usually he has time to strip down first and since he's from a culture where nudity is not taboo, he thinks nothing of it. He's even undressed in front of his female teammate. This character is played by a guy (me). Had Chimera been female, I wonder what the reaction would have been... well, other then a vast increase in the number of furry jokes... :rolleyes:

[zornwil]

First, I apologize for not having glanced through all the posts.

I selected some of each. But the cheesecake ones are generally pretty serious - such as Bud Girl, whose intoxicating brand of beer exaggerates the attraction men already have to her pheremone-based powers, putting them helplessly under the blonde bombshell's spell (even without the elixir, she has a strong area mind control that prohibits people, generally, from harming her in any way). Of course, she's gone on to be a TV news personality now.

Then there's the Red Amazon, once-proud emblem of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, now a fugitive from Russia. A warrior and a bit of a womanizer (she's a lesbian) after a substantial amount of vodka. Tough as nails - no, make that a heck of a lot tougher, Wonder Woman level. She's deadly and beautiful.

Then there's China Left, current hero of the Chinese people, ascetic and dour, deadly martial artist with supernatural abilities. Olive Oil figure and one of the world's premier supers.

[ghost-angel]

Judging from my current Champions character . . .

Supersmart, Superhot, Superpowered.

I have to go with both. Especially since her, uh, costume, involes as little a top as possibly.

[Blue]

Cheesecake in Arms.

[Matt Frisbee]

Since my games are about 95% guys, the superheroines tend to be comrades in arms. Our resident gamer babes tend to be much like the gamer dudes in psychology -- thus, the only babes are supervillains since I GM most of the time and have a perverted imagination. :)

Matt "Still-chasing-fantasy-babes" Frisbee

[Remjin]

Just some random observations:

- My wife... etc.

- In one of my current groups, the highest COM on the team is 16. This stat is possessed by two different characters, both male.

- One of those characters, Chimera, is prone to walking around only half dressed... Had Chimera been female, I wonder what the reaction would have been... well, other then a vast increase in the number of furry jokes... :rolleyes:

I always envy the guys whose wives are into gaming... mine is halfway, she likes the source material, understands the appeal, but not much into the roleplay.

In any case, to address your query, I'd say it would generally fall into Heavy M hitting on you, badly, and a quick pass into regularity. I think furry jokes are generally out as it disturbs just about everyone except maybe the female player who has apparently attended enough cons to be immune.

Its funny that the guy who goes ugly is one of the prettiest amongst us. =)

[Remjin]

to the poll question I chose both as I've seen both happen. Players do what they do for whatever motivations. S'long as its handled without getting obsessive or wierd to the point of annoying, its all good... and if its amusing, all the better.

I played a female character in a fantasy campaign once, who was a manipulative and scheming sort of gal who played cheesecake when it was to her advantage... being male, it made for some squirmy moments though... :eek:

[zornwil]

Although the implications of cheesecake aren't so positive, in real life as well as fictional, just because the sexy, vain side is accentuated doesn't mean a person or character is shallow or ineffectual - it's just an aspect of how many people present themselves. Where I work we have a lot of young people and a fair number, since it's a sportswear company which means it comes with some fashion and fitness mixed elements, of the women are in a bit of a contest over appearance - can't say I mind, and while many of those more overtly engaged I don't know as well, out of those I do there's plenty who are also quite respectable/leadership-quality individuals.

[Mike W]

It depends on well they develop the character. Wasp turned out to be a great leader for the Avengers.Storm is an outstanding character on many levels(marrying her off to Black Panther was stupid for all sorts of reasons I refuse to get into on this thread). On the other hand, we have Power Girl who is generally a waste of space.

[Vondy]

It depends on well they develop the character. Wasp turned out to be a great leader for the Avengers.Storm is an outstanding character on many levels(marrying her off to Black Panther was stupid for all sorts of reasons I refuse to get into on this thread). On the other hand, we have Power Girl who is generally a waste of space.

An incredibly powerful waste of space...

But I agree she's never been properly developed.

[Steve]

But I agree she's never been properly developed.

Oh, such a straight line. He tasks me, and I must answer. :p

She's always seemed pretty well-developed to me. :eg:

[Weldun]

She's always seemed pretty well-developed to me. :eg::slap:

Bad Steve! No biscuit for you! :D

[Vondy]

Oh, such a straight line. He tasks me, and I must answer. :p

She's always seemed pretty well-developed to me. :eg:

I was expecting it from someone...

[Doug McCrae]

Ugly female superheroes are virtually non-existent in comics. Even the rare minger usually gets beautified - She-Thing, Megan. The only one I can think of that's stayed ugly is Madame Masque and she looks pretty damn hot for an ugly chick. Agatha Harkness doesn't count - she has superpowers but isn't a superhero. There are a few unattractive female villains - Harpy from the Omega Men, John Byrne's Pink Pearl. Being villains we don't have to look at them as much.

At first glance there are some ugly male superheroes - Thing, Hulk. However despite whining about it all the time, The Thing really isn't that bad looking after Kirby made him rocky early on. They always have good physiques even if they don't have pretty faces. I guess ugliness doesn't impinge on male wish fulfillment, but being a wimp is verboten.

I don't think I've ever played a female character with average looks or worse, they're all good looking. My major character, Dog Girl, had COM 18+. I always pictured her having a slim build though Pix drew her a bit rounder, more like a typical superheroine. Her powers were physical and I find it hard to imagine an athletic woman with a huge pair of udders. Just seems a bit inappropriate to me.

[Remjin]

I heard that even Calisto, the morlock of ugly reknown is even hot now... *sigh* I just want my fat, bald superhero at least... oh well, I'll have to read WildCards books for that, I guess... though if Fortunato never ever shows up again, I'll be happy...

[mikesama]

In general female superheroes end up being Comrades in arms in my games. Occasionally there will be a female hero or villian that is nothing more than cheescake, usually played for comic effect.