Where do the CU characters come from? [Archive]

Monolith

Jun 21st, '03, 09:39 AM

Many of the CU characters are homages to both Marvel and DC characters from the past. There are not a great many homages, but many of the "key" characters are based on comic book characters. Examples include:

Mechanon/Ultron
Dr. Destroyer/Dr. Doom
Grond/Hulk
Viperia/Supergirl
Kinetik/Flash
Nighthawk/Batman
Maris/Sub-Mariner
Fabulous Five/Fantastic Four
Star*Guard/Green Lantern

There are more, some more subtle and some less, but those are all the ones I can recall of the top of my head.

Lord Liaden

Jun 21st, '03, 10:38 AM

I think it would be reasonable to say that Defender has a lot of Iron Man in him: wealthy, brilliant inventor, powered armor hero.

Firewing has many similarities to Firelord in both powers and temperament, while Istvatha V'han is reminiscent of Kang the Conqueror in her time/space spanning abilities, resources and program of conquest. Black Harlequin is pretty much a cross between Toyman and the Joker, while Thunderbird is almost a clone of the Punisher.

I'm sure other people will come up with more. :)

Agent X

Jun 21st, '03, 11:27 AM

And then there are the composite characters, inspired by two or more established characters. Of course, they could be totally original. It can be hard to tell, especially when you consider the shared experiences we all have. It is very easy for creators to come up with very similar concepts.

Monolith

Jun 21st, '03, 12:02 PM

I should have added a few of the more obvious ones as well:

UNTIL/SHIELD
VIPER/HYDRA
ARGENT/AIM
IHA/Project Wide Awake
Minuteman Robot/Sentinel
Dr. Silverback/Beast
Binder/Trapster
Masquerade/Mystique

:)

Steve Long

Jun 21st, '03, 01:50 PM

An interesting question. Many of the CU characters, particularly the ones that have been around for many years, are clearly "homages" to comics classics; Monolith and others have pointed out a few of these.

However, speaking solely for myself, I try not to directly "rip off" any particular character. Even if I create an "homage," I try to make it a little different. The difficulty is two-fold:

1. Gamers see cool characters in the comics and want to create (or fight) similar characters. Therefore as publishers, we have to consider giving them similar characters.

2. There are only so many good ideas for characters out there; there's bound to be some overlap. I don't really like the Joker all that much and don't really think of Black Harlequin as a direct "homage" to him -- but if you create an "evil clown" type character with gimmicky weapons, it automatically suggests the Joker to people.

Doug McCrae

Jun 21st, '03, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Steve Long
if you create an "evil clown" type character with gimmicky weapons, it automatically suggests the Joker to people. You could have made him an evil Hopi Indian clown.

Jhamin

Jun 21st, '03, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Monolith

Dr. Destroyer/Dr. Doom

While I think this was absolutely true in the past, I think the 5th Edition version of Dr. Destroyer is more of a Thanos/Apocalypse combination than a Dr. Doom homage.

Steve Long

Jun 21st, '03, 04:12 PM

While I think this was absolutely true in the past, I think the 5th Edition version of Dr. Destroyer is more of a Thanos/Apocalypse combination than a Dr. Doom homage.

That certainly wasn't my intent. I had Dr. Doom and his ilk firmly in mind when re-designing Dr. Destroyer, as George MacDonald did when first creating him I'm sure. Heck, I don't even like Apocalypse...

...and if we do a Thanos homage, it'll be in Galactic Champions and, I have no doubt, quite unmistakeable as such. ;)

pawsplay

Jun 21st, '03, 04:40 PM

What I really like about Doctor Destroyer is that he is so obviously a Doctor Doom homage, despite some distinct differences. One nice touch was Destroyer's dislike of magic, in constrast to Doom's magic/science thing.

(Another Doctor Doom homage I like is Blood of Heroes' The Baron. He has a lot of similarities, too, but his European aristrocratic heritage is fake. He's actually a Techno-Wizard from another dimension. Which also explains the magic/science thing.)

Defender is sort of Iron Man crossed with Vanguard.

The hooded vigilante character from CU seems to be related to a Watchman character, who in turn may be related to an older EC character whose name escapes me.

djday38

Jun 21st, '03, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by Steve Long
That certainly wasn't my intent. I had Dr. Doom and his ilk firmly in mind when re-designing Dr. Destroyer, as George MacDonald did when first creating him I'm sure. Heck, I don't even like Apocalypse...

...and if we do a Thanos homage, it'll be in Galactic Champions and, I have no doubt, quite unmistakeable as such. ;)

Is Galactic Champions only going to give characters that are active in the far future (the year 3000 has been mentioned).
Or will many of the characters be active in the current CU?

I ask because my campaign is already quite time travel intensive so I can make use of all the cool characters you are giving us which are not currently active (Dr. Macabre, Scarlet Shield, Kic Chameleon, etc.).

And what kind of guys are we going to see? I am very happy to see a Thanos Type, would we also see mega powerful guys like Galactus, or the Watcher? other obvious possiblities are the galactic empire supers such as Krees/Skrulls and teams such as the Legion of Super Heroes and Guardians of the galaxy.

rgds
Dean

Steve Long

Jun 22nd, '03, 04:43 AM

You'll see all sorts of new characters, including our versions of many of the classic staples of cosmic superheroing, like guys what eats planets. ;)

Most of the villains in Galactic Champions will be new -- villains from the year 3000, not just high-point versions of the existing 21st century villains. There'll be a few "survivors," but the vast majority of villains from CKC will be centuries dead by the time the GC era arrives.

ChaosDrgn

Jun 22nd, '03, 05:38 PM

Guardians of the Galaxy?

JmOz

Jun 22nd, '03, 07:02 PM

Chaos, assuming you are asking Who the Guadians of the Galaxy are I will educate you:

Marvel Comics:
In the future a reptilian race will invade and conquer the earth, this race (The Badoon IIRC) will enslave earth and it's collonies.

A team of 4 heroes will go back in time to get help to save the earth, these four are the original Guardians:

Vance Astro (Aka Major Victory): Vance was a 20th century astronaut who agreed to be put in Cyrogenics to be the first man to land on Centari IV. However in the 1000 years he layed frozen earth discovered FTL and met him when he landed at the collony on that world. The trip awakened his Mutant Power of Psycokinetic Blasts.

Yondu: A native of Centari IV who befriended Vance, when the Badoon attacked Centari IV they killed all the humans and natives (Not quite, they found some more later on) except him and Vance who managed to escape to earth, exceptional Archer with a bow that the arrows resopond to wistles

Charlie-27: A jovian (a geneticaly engineered human off shoot to survive Jupitors Heavy gravity) soldier who was on a solo patroll returned home to fine the Badoon attacking, retreated to Pluto where he met Martinex (the last Plutonian). Charlie is a heavy brick.

Matinex was a scientist from pluto with natural fire and ice powers.

They got help in freeing there world by the defenders. They also became a team of supers in the 31 century. Here is a web site:

http://www.norse-man.net/Marvel/Char-G/Guardians.htm

zornwil

Jun 23rd, '03, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Steve Long
...I don't really like the Joker all that much ...

BLASPHEMY!

Not even the well-done Jokers such as Morrison's/McKean's in Arkham Asylum and in my opinion the best Joker by far, Miller's? There's been lots of poor Joker portrayals of course (in fact the vast majority, but I'd say that's true of any character that lasted over 10 years in comics).

Jhamin

Jun 23rd, '03, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Steve Long
That certainly wasn't my intent. I had Dr. Doom and his ilk firmly in mind when re-designing Dr. Destroyer, as George MacDonald did when first creating him I'm sure. Heck, I don't even like Apocalypse...

...and if we do a Thanos homage, it'll be in Galactic Champions and, I have no doubt, quite unmistakeable as such. ;)

Oops! I misspoke, I meant to say a Thanos/Darkseid combination.

I think Dr. Destroyer's personality and special effects are defiantly reminiscent of Doom. I'm mostly thinking of his power level and the apocalyptic battles that seem to erupt whenever he shows up. If there was ever a villain in CKC that demands a "superhero summer crossover" to defeat then it is Dr. Destroyer.

I find Dr. Destroyers power level leads to stories that have more in common with Thanos or Darksied than with Doom.
Doom fights the Fantastic Four on even odds. This is kind of like what Mechanon, Firewing or the Warlord do.

According to the Champions U, when the Bid D fights personally he fights multiple teams at once and leaves a trail of bodies behind him. This is a very Thanos like mode of operation. He also has a legion of soldiers and super powered minions reminiscent of Darkseid, another mega baddy that sends his underlings to pound on the heroes rather than simply killing them himself.

Agent X

Jun 23rd, '03, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Jhamin
Oops! I misspoke, I meant to say a Thanos/Darkseid combination.

I think Dr. Destroyer's personality and special effects are defiantly reminiscent of Doom. I'm mostly thinking of his power level and the apocalyptic battles that seem to erupt whenever he shows up. If there was ever a villain in CKC that demands a "superhero summer crossover" to defeat then it is Dr. Destroyer.

I find Dr. Destroyers power level leads to stories that have more in common with Thanos or Darksied than with Doom.
Doom fights the Fantastic Four on even odds. This is kind of like what Mechanon, Firewing or the Warlord do.

According to the Champions U, when the Bid D fights personally he fights multiple teams at once and leaves a trail of bodies behind him. This is a very Thanos like mode of operation. He also has a legion of soldiers and super powered minions reminiscent of Darkseid, another mega baddy that sends his underlings to pound on the heroes rather than simply killing them himself. Yep, he's like all three rolled into one.

fredrik_nilsson

Jul 2nd, '04, 07:54 AM

fredrik_nilsson

Jul 2nd, '04, 07:56 AM

I should have added a few of the more obvious ones as well:

VIPER/HYDRA

I can't help it, but to me Viper seems more like Cobra (the enemies of G.I. Joe)

Metaphysician

Jul 2nd, '04, 07:56 PM

Yep, he's like all three rolled into one.

If he were, there'd be a hell of alot more than one city nuked.

TheEmerged

Jul 3rd, '04, 05:21 AM

I can't help it, but to me Viper seems more like Cobra (the enemies of G.I. Joe)
That's how I play them myself, although to be honest COBRA is something of a HYDRA rip-off :D

I sort of run the "agencies" of the Champions Universe in a StarCraft triangle in my current campaign. VIPER is played as the Zerg (numerical superiority and specialization), PRIMUS/UNTIL as the Terrans (flexibility and impact), and ARGENT as the Protoss (small number of powerful units with special powers).

RE: One-Off's in the Champions Universe.

Y'all are forgetting the most important one-off in the CU: Foxbat.

While not part of the current continuity that I've seen (probably has a side panel somewhere I missed) but Crusader, from 4th Edition, was obviously a merging of Batman & Captain America.

Agent X

Jul 3rd, '04, 08:31 AM

If he were, there'd be a hell of alot more than one city nuked.I don't agree. Comic Book rules show that regardless of how powerful you are, in a mainstream comic, you don't get to destroy much on the planet Earth.

Jarekk

Jul 5th, '04, 12:46 AM

VIPER/HYDRA

Gotta say nope on this one... At least, as it seems to me.

Reading "Coil of the Serpent" I realized that Viper isn't Hydra--it's COBRA!

(I really should have gotten that sooner then I did...) (%)

Edit: This is about the fourth time I've replied to a page, only to realize that there's a second page I didn't notice before replying.

This time, it caught up with me. :idjit:

I gotta pay more attention. (%)

steriaca

Jul 6th, '04, 06:54 AM

Gotta say nope on this one... At least, as it seems to me.

Reading "Coil of the Serpent" I realized that Viper isn't Hydra--it's COBRA!

Acording to fact, somebody wanted to create for Marvel in the late 70's a team book called Furry Force, which was lead by Nick Furry Jr. There main aversarie was supose to be Hydra. This got rejected. When Hasbro came to Marvel asking for help in reintroducing the G.I.Joe line, thay scrounged up the Furry Force file, gave it some spit and polish, and presented it to them. This, A Real American Hero is born.

To keep this more on track, hear are some more Homages (both intentinal and unitentinal).

SAT (Special American Tactics, which never got a proper writup): G.I.Joe.
The Director (from Prymid In The Sky): The Film Freek (a minor Batman baddie, curently dead), the main charater in the film Fade To Black.
Midnight Maid (from Ninja Hero): Ken, Ryu, Sakura, and Sean from the Street Fighter video game series (give or take a few moves...)
Kalia The Destroyer: Radize from Dragon Ball Z.
Holocoest: Magneto (mines the magitisem powers, and the acualy cairing about the mutant race).

Col. Orange

Jul 6th, '04, 07:14 AM

What about Norse-Storm-Hammer-god?
(Did he "make the cut"?)

steriaca

Jul 6th, '04, 07:31 AM

What about Norse-Storm-Hammer-god?
(Did he "make the cut"?)

Norse-Storm-Hammer-God was an "example only" charater. Meaning you only saw his name when thay gave power examples. Unlike SAT, NSHG was never named in a real Champions adventure/soursebook. This, he never existed.

Of course, if he DID exist, he would be Thor.

Now, on to the Guardians...
Icestar: Iceman.
Gargole: Much like the Marvel charater (and Defender member) of the same name.
Dove: The Greatest American Hero (o/` "Beleve It Or Not" o/`)
The others are more one-off than not.

Agent X

Jul 6th, '04, 09:50 AM

BLASPHEMY!

Not even the well-done Jokers such as Morrison's/McKean's in Arkham Asylum and in my opinion the best Joker by far, Miller's? There's been lots of poor Joker portrayals of course (in fact the vast majority, but I'd say that's true of any character that lasted over 10 years in comics).Anything Miller touches turns to manure soon after. IMvery biasedO

ChuckB

Jul 6th, '04, 12:02 PM

Y'all are forgetting the most important one-off in the CU: Foxbat.

While not part of the current continuity that I've seen (probably has a side panel somewhere I missed) but Crusader, from 4th Edition, was obviously a merging of Batman & Captain America.

Always saw Foxbat as more of a cross between 80's manic-Robin Williams and Frank Gorshin.

keithcurtis

Jul 6th, '04, 02:14 PM

Always saw Foxbat as more of a cross between 80's manic-Robin Williams and Frank Gorshin.

If I were to run him, it would clearly be as an Ambush Bug analog. Back when AB was a villain, but with his later zaniness. Ambush Bug's greatest power, far more than teleportation, was that he realized he was a comic book character and all that entailed.
He figured out Superman's secret ID in like five seconds. ("People fall for that?")

Keith "pop!" Curtis

Susano

Jul 6th, '04, 02:38 PM

I always thought Grond was HERO's take on the Abomination, while Ogre was the Hulk.

Tom McCarthy

Jul 8th, '04, 06:11 AM

I was such a DC zombie when I started playing Champions that I thought Mechanon was Computo.

I didn't recognize Binder, either. A few who struck me as original were Plasmoid, Slick, Foxbat, Dark Seraph, and Ankylosaur.

I was pretty quick to recognize the inspirations for Neutron, Le Sone, Bora, Pantera, Durak, White Flame, Giganto, Feur (Feuermacher), Crusader, Dr. Destroyer and Prof. Muerte, Grond, Capt. Australia, Viperia, Black Claw, Fox of Crime, Sparkler, Avar-7, and a few others.

steriaca

Jul 8th, '04, 08:12 AM

I was pretty quick to recognize the inspirations for Neutron, Le Sone, Bora, Pantera, Durak, White Flame, Giganto, Feur (Feuermacher), Crusader, Dr. Destroyer and Prof. Muerte, Grond, Capt. Australia, Viperia, Black Claw, Fox of Crime, Sparkler, Avar-7, and a few others.

Let me make the links...
Neutron=?
Le Sone=?
Bora=?
Pantera=?
Durak=?
White Flame=The Human Torch/Pryo?
Giganto=The Thing
Feurmacher=The Human Torch
Crusader=Batman/Caption America
Dr. Destroyer=Dr. Doom
Profesor Muerte=Dr. Doom (Jr, if you will)
Grond=The Hulk/The Abamanation
Caption Australia=Superman/Caption Marvel?
Black Claw=Wolvereen?
Fox Of Crime=Bugs Bunny
Sparkler=?
Avar-7=?

There are a lot of question marks around. Mabie I don't read enougth comic books.

JJR

Jul 8th, '04, 08:45 AM

Avar-7 would be the Vision. I have no idea who the others would be.

Sketchpad

Jul 8th, '04, 09:35 AM

PSI = X-Men
Le Sone= Klaw
Bora= Storm
Pantera= Tigra
Shamrock = Black Tom/Juggernaut
White Flame= Pyro
Giganto= The Thing
Feurmacher= The Human Torch
Crusader= Daredevil/Captain America
Dr. Destroyer= Dr. Doom
Profesor Muerte= Dr. Doom (Kristoff)
Grond= The Hulk/The Abomination
Black Claw= Sabretooth/Wolverine
Avar-7= Vision
Nightwind = Nightwing
Mongoose = Iron Fist/Casey Jones

As for Viper, I've always used them as Hydra and the Coil as Cobra (hence the flashy names and outfits)

Tom McCarthy

Jul 8th, '04, 12:03 PM

Neutron - Magneto played for laughs

Eurostar was a 'new X-Men as villains' team
Le Sone - Cyclops
Bora - Storm
Pantera - Wolverine
Durak - Colossus
White Flame - Rising Sun

Terror, Inc. was a 'FF as led by Dr. Doom'
Prof. Muerte - Dr. Doom
Giganto - the Thing
Feur (Feuermacher) - Human Torch

Crusader - Capt. America
Dr. Destroyer - Dr. Doom
Grond - savage Hulk
Capt. Australia - Superman/Supergirl
Viperia - Supergirl
Black Claw - Wolverine played for laughs
Fox of Crime - Nightcrawler played for laughs
Sparkler - Jubilee
Avar-7 - Vision

although, maybe I was wrong.

milton febles

Jul 10th, '04, 04:57 AM

Nycademos(from Champions of the north) : Diablo.
The canadian sentinels (from same book) : Alpha Flight.
The Golden Avenger of PRIMUS: Captian America (without the shield)
Joe otanga( Horror enemies) : raul bushman or soloman prey.
Black king (from the mutant file): Black panther.
Shrinker( the wasp with sadistic sense of humor)
Interface (from battlegronuds) :cyborg of the teen titans if he had a brain.
Pulsar:Electro.
Sorry guys, thats all i can think of on such short notice.

lapsedgamer

Jul 11th, '04, 06:58 PM

steriaca

Jul 12th, '04, 09:34 AM

[QUOTE=steriaca.
The Director (from Prymid In The Sky): The Film Freek (a minor Batman baddie, curently dead), the main charater in the film Fade To Black.
QUOTE]

Actually, I knew the guy who wrote Pyramid in the Sky, Steve Metze. We went to college together, and I actually introduced him to Champions back in the 80s. I played that scenario with him as GM long before he wrote the book. He was (probably still is) a film buff, and actually went on to attend film school. All those characters (Director, Key Grip and the others) were his own filmaker in jokes. I don't know if he ever heard of the Batman villian, though I do remember us talking about the movie Fade to Black once. Great guy. Haven't talked to him in years, though. I actually introduced two people who went on to write scenarios for Champions to the Hero System in college. As a result, I was lucky enough to play with some pretty creative GMs.

Prehaps the Film Freek was created after Pyramid In The Sky. Anyways, let me explain the charater. He was a stugling actor who finaly snaped. "Inspiered" by films, he started killing people, using film titles as clues to how and the method (he managed to do killing a person by wearing a monky suite twice, once for "King Kong", and once for "Planet Of The Apes"). Anyways, Batman stoped him, and he was sent to Arkin Asilem. Where he stayed till the earthquake. Excaping, he was killed by The Penguin, who found Film Freek anoying.