Must there be a Green Lantern Corps?

[Doug McCrae]

I'm doing the history for my new campaign which includes lots of analogs of stuff like Superman, SHIELD, etc and I was wondering if it's a good idea to include the GLC. They are a great concept and I also really like Qward, the evil version of Oa, but the problem it seems to me is that space, normally the source of lots of 'good' bad guys like Galactus and evil alien empires will be cleaned up if the GLC are around. The Skrulls will be kept within their borders, Galactus will probably be imprisoned, cured or dead. Damn those blue midgets!

One thing I thought I might try is have the GLC destroyed (apart from the one remaining GL) a few years back in some sort of Crisis type event so the alien empires are just now beginning to expand with no one to stop them.

[Hermit]

Well, the official CU has the Star*Guard ( I think our sector's starguard was mentioned in a DH article) but there's no reason you have to have such an organization if you don't want it.

The first thing I'd suggest is looking at the PCs in your gaming group. Do any of them have characters that are already like that, or members of a stare corps of some sort? Are any of your players undecided yet? You might want to check and make sure you're not denying a fun niche to your PCs.

In the end though, it is YOUR Gameworld (worlds) so do what you think suits best :)

The idea of a destroyed organization with only one or two lone survivors, or it's technology falling into the hands of an unsuspecting person soon to be a hero is a classic.

Heck, you could even take the story from the "Lone Ranger" sci-fi/supe it up, and you have a great origin for a PC or prominent NPC.

[pawsplay]

In the pre-Crisis DC universe, the Green Lantern more than had their hands full. There were the Psions, their own predecessors gone renegade and banished. The Citadel, an army of clones. Sinestro, and an entire gang of baddies locked away in the Anti-Matter Universe.

Just figure out how many Green Lanterns it would take to patrol the universe, then make there be about 2/3 of that.

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by pawsplay
Just figure out how many Green Lanterns it would take to patrol the universeQuite a few I guess. 3600 doesn't seem nearly enough does it?

[Hermit]

Yeah, that's a lot of space to cover.
Another thing to take into account is how effective the organization is, and how truly worthy it's members are. In a Silver Age situation, it's almost a given that every member of this group is good, noble, true... and any that have been corrupted were found out and expelled (making dandy super villains).

With a bronze or iron age scenerio, you could have members that abuse their powers/position, and often get away with it. We've all heard stories about the 'good cop gone bad' or on a 'power trip' in Real life... that guy who makes the rest of the force look bad... and yet is still in it. Imagine that on a cosmic level... and you have a problem.

If the Powers that BE have some way of insuring worthiness, this is null and void... but even that might create hard feelings from the hundreds of rejects found 'unworthy'.

[McCoy]

3600 doesn't seem like enough for a single galaxy, much less the Universe.

But how big is the Universe? And in your world is space open, flat, or closed? I believe in the DC universe, space is closed, and in the classic Green Lantern Corps each member was responsable for an "orange slice" (forget the mathmatical term) one-tenth of a degree wide starting at Oa and going out 15 billion light years. Anyone remember enough geometry to calculate the volumn of space that means each individual is responsable for patroling?

[Monolith]

I have no problem if a world has a Green Lantern Corp. To me it just adds another possibility for the players to get to play one of their favorite character clones. Anything which makes the game fun for a player, without screwing it up for everyone else, is ok to me.

As far as your concept of a GLC being all-powerful (able to defeat Galactus, etc) that does not need to be the case. Just because there is a "Star Corp" it does not mean that they are mega-powerful. I think Star*Guard is a good example of this. An individual member of the Star*Guard is powerful (doing 12d6 with their Star Staff) but they are not so powerful that even a group of them could hope to defeat someone like Galactus.

The GLC is not all-powerful. There have been invasion of Earth and other planets. They are not going up against Darkseid or his army of New Gods. If you think about it, it took the GLC years just to get their hands on Sinestro. If the were all-powerful they would have squashed him like a bug one week after he went rogue.

If a GLC makes your world better then add it. If it does not, or will not really be used in any way, then avoid it and spend time working on other things which will have an impact on your game.

[Mutant for Hire]

The GLC are a Silver Age copy of the Lensmen, by Doc EE Smith. The SF show Babylon 5, interestingly enough, could be considered an Iron Age rebuttal to the original Lensman books. The Vorlons are apparently just like the Arisians and the Shadows like the Eddorians, only JMS played around the concept that the Vorlons are necessarily all wise and on the side of goodness and light.

[Doug McCrae]

It sounds like the Star*Guard do the same job as the GLC but on a much lower budget. Hey! Maybe that's what happened. The GLC weren't destroyed, they just had their funding slashed by the Galactic Government.

[Doug McCrae]

I got the impression that in DC's Silver Age, the GLC/Oans were *the* supreme power for good in the universe. Arguably surpassed only by the Spectre (and his boss). In my extremely humble opinion, they could kick Galactus's big purple-clad butt.

Now I *could* have a lower power GLC but I kinda like the ludicrous power level of DC's Silver Age. I'd like it to exist somewhere even if it's only in the back story. You're probably right though that some of the coolness of the GLC - the uniforms, the standard weapons, the oath (my God, the oath, I'd forgotten about that! The oath is totally wonderful). You could still have all that, but you'd lose a bit. You'd lose their place in the cosmic order, in the history of the universe. The whole story of Oa, Krona, Kward and the anti-matter universe is (or was after Crisis) very important for the mythology of the DC universe.

Also I really like the Big Green Lantern power battery on Oa.

BTW in the Legion of Super-Heroes, had the GLC decided to stay clear of the Legion's stomping ground? And why?

[JmOz]

Another option is to limit there jurisdiction. If the GLC only were in the Galaxy (opposed to the universe) you have many other galaxies for villains.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Doug McCrae
In my extremely humble opinion, they could kick Galactus's big purple-clad butt.
Well that might be true, but then you have to ask yourself why they never did anything about Darkseid or any of the other cosmic threats in the DC universe during the Silver Age. Personally I just think it is because they are not all-powerful. They are good at keeping the peace in relatively small sectors most of the time, but the GLC is not good at dealing with major unified threats, IMO. As I said, they do not stop planetary invasions and can barely defeat their own Rogue's Gallery. They are too busy sweating the small stuff to worry about the big fish. :)


You could still have all that, but you'd lose a bit. You'd lose their place in the cosmic order, in the history of the universe. The whole story of Oa, Krona, Kward and the anti-matter universe is (or was after Crisis) very important for the mythology of the DC universe.
I think your vision of Oa's importance (especially during the Silver Age) is skewed. I think most comic readers envision the GLC as super-powered territorial marshalls, not as a universal force which can destroy anything.


BTW in the Legion of Super-Heroes, had the GLC decided to stay clear of the Legion's stomping ground? And why?
I cannot remember if the GLC was still active in the time of the LSH. I do not ever recall seeing a Green Lantern in any of their stores. It has been a number of years since I have read about Cosmic Boy and the rest though. :)

[Acroyear]

You can go further back to the GLC's roots, like the Lensmen. Just don't give them as much power... or spread them thin. Or make part of their doctrine that they will not lend aid to systems that do not accept them (jurisdiction, so to speak). Then you can have stories where they are seeking out an "authority" in a space sector in order to form an agreement. When it comes to earth.... these barbarians don't even all speak the same language! No world government... it's chaos. Doctrine can do a lot to limit them. A sort of prime directive or Watcher's oath.

Why not tackle Darkseid? He's actually the legal authority on his world.

Perhaps they have the potential for great power, but the more people they give the power to, the weaker it gets, so they have to limit the number of their agents. And what happens when some "Oan" decides to start giving out power to anyone who is a potential candidate? Spreading it thinner and thinner... not even the Oans agreed on everything, remember.

While you don't need one. They certainly provide a lot of story ideas.

[McCoy]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Perhaps they have the potential for great power, but the more people they give the power to, the weaker it gets, so they have to limit the number of their agents. And what happens when some "Oan" decides to start giving out power to anyone who is a potential candidate? Spreading it thinner and thinner... not even the Oans agreed on everything, remember.

That would be an interesting limitation. Maybe the main power battery can generate (for example) 3600 END in a 24 hour period, and at the begining of a combat the GM secretly rolls dice to see how much END is available to power the player's VPP (the rest having already been used by other corps members). The player would quickly learn the value of using reduced END or 0 END powers routienly, but still be able to call on the full strength pushed EB when needed.

[Chris Goodwin]

Suppose almost all of the individual Green Lanterns were destroyed, but their infrastructure remained. The Big Green Lantern power battery, perhaps archives spread throughout the galaxy, maybe fragments of a ring found floating in space (what would one of these do?), etc.

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about the Green Lantern Corps.

[Oruncrest]

You have to remember, each (pre-CRISIS) Lantern has a sector that he works out of. Said sector is 1/3600th the size of the universe.
From what I've read recently, the Universe is about 40 Billion light years wide (give or take a few hundred million parsecs), so each sector is about... (gulp) 9,308,422,677,303,091,076,926,350,765 cubic light years wide:eek:.

Also note that Galactus' diet used to consist of a planet every century, (it's only in recent times that Galactus' hunger has gotten out of pocket), so assuming that the Universe is around 20 billion years old, then the big G has consumed about 200 million worlds. If we were to use the 'optimistic' number of planets in a Galaxy from Star Hero (i.e. 180,000 technological civilizations), then Galactus has eaten his way thru over 1100 galaxies. But that just assumes that he only eats worlds with technological civilizations. If you include all the worlds in that 'optimistic' galaxy that had developed life but couldn't send a distress signal (about 360 billion planets in a galaxy the size of the Milky Way alone), then Galactus becomes almost small time.

A galactic empire like the Kree, Shi'ar, or Skrull wouldn't have too much trouble out of the GLC, so long as they didn't try to use Palpatine's Guide to Grinding Down on the Petty Masses and get rediculously Machavellian. The Guardians want the Corps to be trusted by the sentients of the universe, and they can't be very well trusted if they go around overthrowing every government they disagreeing with (In fact, one GL resigned from the Corps in order to fight the Vegan Citadel and the Guardians wouldn't let him).

Yes, there are Green Lanters in the 30th century, however (pre-ZERO HOUR), they are banned from entering Earth's solar system because of a near disastrous incident involving a rebellious Earth-born GL (Why do the Guardians keep picking Terrans anyway? They'll just become villians.) who'd later go on to become Universo (see what I mean). The Guardians then turned around and gave his son, Rond, a ring and told him that he had to work undercover (to get around the no-GL restriction). But the moron had to go and invade Tharn and got his butt stomped by Mordru, who crushed his ring. I don't remember if the Guardians ever gave him a new one. Maybe they're learning.

[Space Cadet]

As far as why you didn't see any Green Lanterns around Earth
(or any other world in the pre-Crisis Sector 2814, for that
matter), it was because the LSH was up to the job of protect-
ing Earth and all of the other worlds in that sector of space,
IIRC.

Space Cadet :cool:

[Lord Liaden]

Toward the end of Hal Jordan's tenure as a Green Lantern, he learned that Krona's experiment had drawn some of the energy from the initial Big Bang, so that the universe might not have enough at its inevitable future collapse to be recreated for the next cycle of Existence. Hence the Guardians were obsessed with using their GL Corps to create "structures of order" which would help conserve that energy for the end. Following that rationale, interstellar empires like those of the Kree could be seen as imposing order, and therefore be something that the Guardians would probably approve of. Similarly Galactus has been declared to be performing a valuable function of testing and "winnowing" worlds, and so would be part of the universal order as well.

BTW, Hal Jordan once stopped some GLC recruits from intervening in an interplanetary war, declaring that the Corps didn't get involved in "local politics."

[Enforcer84]

As for kicking Galactus' butt, maybe when he was hungry. But according to Marvel he is the middle.

There is Eternity (Life)
There is Death (er..Death)
and there is Galactus.

I doubts the little blue midget headcases coult take him out when he was ready for them.

[Bazza]

Originally posted by Enforcer84
As for kicking Galactus' butt, maybe when he was hungry. But according to Marvel he is the middle.

There is Eternity (Life)
There is Death (er..Death)
and there is Galactus.

I doubts the little blue midget headcases coult take him out when he was ready for them. Also remember that Galactus is the reborn sentience of the old (Marvel) universe.

One other thing to consider is the Celestials, when they go and test planets dominate species for evolutionary purity. And then destroy them if they fail the test. Is this part of the natural order of the universe? Or perhaps a higher-order that the GLC cannot comprehend?

cf. the trade paperback: Thor Agaist the Celestials. Instead of Thor-briches - substitute him for the GLC.

(note: I no nothing about GLC)

[Doug McCrae]

Everyone: Thanks very much for all the advice. Loads of interesting ideas. Here's my preliminary proposal, which is by no means set in stone -

Combine the concepts of the GLC/Krypton/Lensman/Heaven/Kherubim and chuck in a bit oif Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel mythos too (if I have room). The Oans/Kryptonians/Arisians are the universe's oldest civilisation. Over millions of years of evolution and scientific advancement they have developed incredible physical and mental powers (which vary from individual to individual - my million dollar getout clause) as well as miraculous devices. Since time immemorial they have waged war against the Demons/Kwardians, probably a fallen offshoot of their own race. There have been a number of such offshoots over the years, which have each gone their own strange way. In 1941/42, an Arisian/Angel came to Earth, using her fantastic powers and amazing gadgets (lasso, invisible plane, wings made of ninth metal) to help humanity.

Like Krypton a whole complex back story of the history of Oa will be built up including early barbarism, possible periods of expansion/interference with other races, wars against other great powers of the universe like the Celestials/Galactus/New Gods/Skrulls, bizarre wonders, and criminal throwbacks imprisoned in the Phantom Zone.

Wonder Woman may have been rebelling against the Oan authorities or she may just have been a bit more outgoing than most. Anyway for many years they have withdrawn back to Oa and these days prefer to act thru agents - the Green Lantern Corps.

At some point no earlier than the 70s, Oa was destroyed. The Guardians died or disappeared. The GLC was either wiped out at once or slowly hunted down by their numerous enemies, grown bold. Their light has gone out from the galaxy, we shall not see their like again.

Or will we? To provide a force for order and justice in the universe and to honour the memory of the old Green Lantern Corps, a new organisation has been created - The New Green Lantern Corps! The young men, women and sentient pools of slime that make up this organisation are determined and brave. But the New GLC is really just a shadow of the old. It is underfunded, hide bound by bureaucracy, its hands are tied by protocol and galactic diplomacy and the whole thing is probably secretly controlled by the Skrulls.

The New Green Lantern Corps - Keeping the galaxy safe for you and your children/eggs/seedlings*

*Please delete as appropriate

[Bunyip]

Originally posted by McCoy
Anyone remember enough geometry to calculate the volumn of space that means each individual is responsable for patroling? [/B]

Volume of a sphere is 4 times radius times pi cubed, I think... if radius is 15 billion ly, I make the volume of each segment a little over 5 million cubic light years.

3600 GLs is *way* too few...

[Bunyip]

(Slaps head)
Make that 500 million. It's been a long time since high school...

[dbsousa]

My game has two factions, rather than just one...

Two members of GGI, Buster and the Bolt, appear to be weapons in some Cold War between the B’ltz and B’Starri, two factions of the same alien race who have extended their feud throughout the cosmos, encompassing all space and time. In pursuit of the upper hand, The B’Starri have mastered space, creating weapons that can transport galaxies from one side of the universe to another at the speed of thought. Meanwhile the B’ltz have mastered time, creating weapons that can dismantle a galaxy between heartbeats. Eventually, their feud threatened the existence of time and space itself. In a desperate effort to save both, a truce was signed at the edge of oblivion, effectively removing both factions from the universe as we understand it. By the rules of their truce, each faction is allowed to give the smallest fraction of their power to one sentient creature in every discreet biosphere. Thus the cold war exists everywhere, at all times.

Naturally Buster and the Bolt have no sympathy for the Cold war, and go about protecting the Earth...

[Doug McCrae]

Another idea I had, but decided not to use, was to have two inergalactic police forces - the GLC and the Star*Guard/Darkstars. The relationship would be much like that popularly supposed to exist between the FBI and local police forces ie antagonistic rivalry.

[Lord Liaden]

I once played in a combined Marvel/DC universe game where the harm caused by Krona prompted the ancient Maltusian race to divide into two factions; the Guardians, who actively sought to preserve the universe from any more such destructive forces; and the Watchers, who foreswore any further interference in favor of passive observation and recording.

My own campaign featured the Star Knights, who had been created in a past age to defeat Lovecraftian Old Ones who had attempted to destroy and supplant all other life in the cosmos. The Star Knights continued to exist to guard against the Old Ones' return, but as long as their members fulfilled this duty and generally protected life as a whole, the Knights were unconcerned about individual standards of morality and ethics. This allowed for wide variation in the conduct of individual Star Knights, including behavior that most on our world would consider "villainous."

[Acroyear]

Our big campaign has an "evil" GLC of sorts composed of supernatural Judge Death type guys out to wipe out all life since living things are the only things that can commit evil with big power pools and stuff...

Their opposite number is kinda more like space shaolin monks. Wuxia martial artists with weapons.

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
My own campaign featured the Star Knights, who had been created in a past age to defeat Lovecraftian Old OnesCool

[TheEmerged]

For me, the main problem of the GLC was that you always had to come up with some reason they weren't getting involved in the Crisis of the Month. This usually involved some very hackeneyed plotwork (see "The Nail" Elseworld by DC for a typical arrangement). The running joke becomes the GLC always showing up late for a crisis...

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
I once played in a combined Marvel/DC universe game where the harm caused by Krona prompted the ancient Maltusian race to divide into two factions; the Guardians, who actively sought to preserve the universe from any more such destructive forces; and the Watchers, who foreswore any further interference in favor of passive observation and recording.

My own campaign featured the Star Knights, who had been created in a past age to defeat Lovecraftian Old Ones who had attempted to destroy and supplant all other life in the cosmos. The Star Knights continued to exist to guard against the Old Ones' return, but as long as their members fulfilled this duty and generally protected life as a whole, the Knights were unconcerned about individual standards of morality and ethics. This allowed for wide variation in the conduct of individual Star Knights, including behavior that most on our world would consider "villainous." Hey! We did that too. The thing with the Watchers and Guardians I mean. Was Superman a Kryptonian Eternal by any chance?

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Agent X
Hey! We did that too. The thing with the Watchers and Guardians I mean. Was Superman a Kryptonian Eternal by any chance?

Not explicitly brought up, although I suppose his heritage could be considered proto-Eternal. His background was essentially the same, except that he was launched from Krypton to escape the planet's judgement by the Celestials. ;)

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Not explicitly brought up, although I suppose his heritage could be considered proto-Eternal. His background was essentially the same, except that he was launched from Krypton to escape the planet's judgement by the Celestials. ;) You know, Supes qualified as an Elder of the Universe in our campaign. :)

We had Skrulls figured out this way:
Skrulls were Deviants with a twist: the original race didn't make it.
Dire Wraiths were really nasty Deviants.
Martians (as in J'onn J'onnz) were Skrull Eternals.

Hawkeye was the original Speedy before the real Speedy from the comic books.

Thor replaced Superman as an original member of the Justice League because we started the JL 15 years before Supes was active.

We just did some wierd things.:)

[Lord Liaden]

Logical suggestions, Agent X. For the record, our group used the same background for J'onn J'onnz; however, IIRC it's now Marvel canon that the Skrulls are indeed Deviants, who used their shapeshifting to subvert and destroy the Skrull Eternals and "normals."

Our version of the Manhunter could more accurately be called "skrullhunter"; he'd been fighting the Skrulls for nearly a million years, and they had a planet's ransom in bounty on his head. But even that paled beside their hatred for the only other surviving Skrull Eternal, the more obsessed and vicious Drax the Destroyer.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Logical suggestions, Agent X. For the record, our group used the same background for J'onn J'onnz; however, IIRC it's now Marvel canon that the Skrulls are indeed Deviants, who used their shapeshifting to subvert and destroy the Skrull Eternals and "normals."

Our version of the Manhunter could more accurately be called "skrullhunter"; he'd been fighting the Skrulls for nearly a million years, and they had a planet's ransom in bounty on his head. But even that paled beside their hatred for the only other surviving Skrull Eternal, the more obsessed and vicious Drax the Destroyer. Heh, great minds think a lot alike.:cool:

[Doug McCrae]

Great ideas guys.

An alternative explanation for the Skrulls could be that they were human-looking until they had a planet-wide nuclear war... using gamma bombs.

[Killer Shrike]

My opinion, if I might be so bold, is that if you want a GLC-equivalent, and you are not playing in the DC setting, then at least give it a different, original name and motif. Same with WW and any other published character.

Make your own world, not some confused mishmash of some new stuff, and some familiar stuff. Creative reasons aside, doing what you are talking about leads to erroneous expectations about what is the same as familiar material and what is different.

If the players are like "Oh, the GLC", they are going to make certain assumptions that may not be true about YOUR version of the GLC. But if you call them the "Universal Defense Legion", the players know better than to make assumptions by default.

[Doug McCrae]

I agree entirely. I've just been calling them the GLC cause I don't have a new name yet. Their power source will be 'cosmic lightning'.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Doug McCrae
I agree entirely. I've just been calling them the GLC cause I don't have a new name yet. Their power source will be 'cosmic lightning'. If you are crossing in an angelic theme, you might as well make thier power source thier glowing halos.

[KawangaKid]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Our big campaign has an "evil" GLC of sorts composed of supernatural Judge Death type guys out to wipe out all life since living things are the only things that can commit evil with big power pools and stuff...

Their opposite number is kinda more like space shaolin monks. Wuxia martial artists with weapons.

Darn those Boans. And their lackeys the evil Mr. Bones Corps!

I hates 'em. Hates 'em all!

[Bazza]

Originally posted by Doug McCrae
I agree entirely. I've just been calling them the GLC cause I don't have a new name yet. Their power source will be 'cosmic lightning'. Can I suggest as a name "Cosmic Lightning Corps".