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BlueBuddha

Jun 21st, '03, 11:43 PM

I currently have 19 XP saved up for my Champions character. I want to spend it on something, but I don't know what. I was thinking I could easily get some suggestions here :)

I could improve his skills or existing powers, buy off some disadvantages, or I could get a new power altogether. His deal is that he's a genetically engineered being with biological weapons. He's designed to be "re-fitted" with abilities by tweaking his "genetic code," but no one on Earth currently understands how it works. He's working on that :) He's currently filling the "speedster/martial artist/bug-man" category, if that helps. Now hit me with your ideas!

BlueBuddha

Here he is:

Rachis

Player: Dan

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15/35  </td><td>STR</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/18  </td><td>DEX</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15/25  </td><td>CON</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>BODY</td><td>6</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>INT</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>EGO</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/14  </td><td>PRE</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>COM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">3/23  </td><td>PD</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">3/20  </td><td>ED</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">3/6  </td><td>SPD</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">6/12  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30/50  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">29/44  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"/10"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">3"/10"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 31

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td>Combat Form, all slots: Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">16  </td><td>1) +20 STR (20 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">19  </td><td>2) +8 DEX (24 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">16  </td><td>3) +10 CON (20 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3  </td><td>4) +4 PRE (4 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">13  </td><td>5) +16 PD (16 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">12  </td><td>6) +15 ED (15 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">24  </td><td>7) +3 SPD (30 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6  </td><td>8) Enhanced Speed: +4" Running (6"/10" total) (8 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">1</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">2  </td><td>9) Enhanced Speed: Leaping +3" (3"/10" forward, 1 1/2"/5" upward) (3 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">1</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td> </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">40  </td><td>Right Arm Cable Weaponry: Multipower, 50-point reserve, all slots: (50 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>1) Adhesion: Clinging (normal STR) (10 Active Points); Cannot Resist Knockback (-1/4), Not on Slick Surfaces (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">2u  </td><td>2) Retractable Claws: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 -1 (plus STR) (vs. PD) (25 Active Points) [Notes: 3d6+1 w/Str] </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3u  </td><td>3) Entangle 3d6, 7 DEF (50 Active Points); Can Be Missile Deflected (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">5</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">2u  </td><td>4) Grapple Line: Stretching 10" (50 Active Points); Cannot Do Damage (-1/2), Always Direct (-1/4), Range Modifier Applies (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">5</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">4u  </td><td>5) Poisoned Dart: Energy Blast 5d6 (vs. PD), No Normal Defense Not vs. Rigid Armor (+1) (50 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">5</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">4u  </td><td>6) Spike Launcher: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6 +1 (vs. PD) (50 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">5</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1u  </td><td>7) Zip Line: Teleportation 10", x4 Increased Mass (30 Active Points); Cannot Escape Entangles or Grabs (-1/2), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4), No Noncombat Movement (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td> </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">57  </td><td>Left Arm Cable Weaponry: Identical to Right Arm (57 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td> </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td>Battle Adaptations, all slots: Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6  </td><td>1) Armored Shell: Damage Resistance (8 PD/6 ED) (7 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">11  </td><td>2) Chamelion Skill: Invisibility to Sight Group (20 Active Points); Chameleon (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">16  </td><td>3) Enhanced Senses: +4 on all Perception Rolls (20 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">8  </td><td>4) Enhanced Senses: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 8 Real Cost) Infrared Perception (Real Cost: 5) plus Ultraviolet Perception (Real Cost: 5) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>5) Environmental Isolation: (Total: 19 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Life Support , Self-Contained Breathing, 1 Recoverable Continuing Fuel Charges lasting 10 Minutes each (+0) (Real Cost: 10) plus Life Support , Safe in High Pressure, Safe in High Radiation, Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat, Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum (Real Cost: 9) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">  </td><td> </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7  </td><td>Vanguard Communicator: Radio Perception/Transmission (10 Active Points); OIF (Wrist Link; -1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>Regeneration: Healing 1d6 (max. Healed Points: 6) (Can Heal Limbs), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time 1 Day (-4), Self Only (-1/2) [Notes: No Healing Max (see FREd p. 120).] </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 293

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Reflexive Combat </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>1) Defensive Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +3 DCV, STR Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>2) Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>3) Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 13

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>Acting 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Acrobatics 12- (14-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>Breakfall 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>Climbing 13- (15-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>Concealment 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>Conversation 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>Deduction 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>Paramedics 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>Persuasion 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>Power: Cablery 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>PS: Bartending 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>PS: Nightclub Management 8- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>Shadowing 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Stealth 12- (14-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Teamwork 11- (13-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">0  </td><td>TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td> </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">8  </td><td>+1 with All Combat </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Defense Maneuver: I-II  </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 51

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">9  </td><td>Contact: Bio-Warrior Legion (Contact has: useful Resources), Organization Contact (+2) (9 Active Points) 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">11  </td><td>Ford (275 Base, 60 Disad) (55 Active Points); Cost shared with Vanguard (-4) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Vanguard Headquarters (160 Base, 40 Disad) (32 Active Points); Cost shared with Vanguard (-4) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Contact: Dr. Hans Grunwald (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has: useful Skills or resources) 11- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>Money: $100,000/Year: Well Off </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 31

Total Character Cost: 419

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Accidental Change: When Psionically Attacked Frequently (11-), Uncommon </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Distinctive Features: Alien Bio-Warrior Not Concealable, Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction, Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Hunted: Enemies of Vanguard 8- (Occasionally), As Powerful, Harshly Punish </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Hunted: Psychophant Retrieval Teams 8- (Occasionally), As Powerful, Harshly Punish, Limited Geographical Area (Outer Space) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Physical Limitation: Unable to remember Previous Life Infrequently, Slightly Impairing </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Fear of Synthetic Chemicals Common, Moderate </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Loyal to "The Cause" Uncommon, Strong </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Unable to leave self vulnerable to attack Common, Strong </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Reputation: Member of Vanguard Frequently (11-) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Social Limitation: Secret Identity Frequently (11-), Major </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25  </td><td>Susceptibility: Refined Bio-Toxin 3d6 damage, per Phase, Uncommon </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Vulnerability: 1 1/2x STUN Crushing Damage Very Common </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 69
Total Experience Available: 86
Experience Unspent: 19

Trebuchet

Jun 22nd, '03, 04:16 AM

Interesting character. I have one question: Why does his Left Arm Cable Weaponry cost as much as his Right Arm Cable Weaponry? In every example I've seen in CKC, duplicate powers like that only cost about 10% as much as the initial set, unless there is some specific reason you want to be able to use both simultaneously. So you may be screwing yourself out of about 50 CP.

As for XP, I'd look at buying more martial arts maneuvers. Martial Block and perhaps Offensive Strike would be good choices.

Buying his DEX up naturally 6 points to 21 would be another good way to go; I've seen plenty of "normal" human characters with 20 DEX. 18 max may be a bit low for a gene-engineered hero, and buying more DEX straight up would allow you to reduce the extra points you've spent on Acrobatics, Breakfall, Climbing and Stealth. Plus, it would give you a natural CV of 7 and a superheroic CV of 10 (And do you really assume your character will never be attacked when he's not in his Hero form? I thought not. :) ) Zl'f, my own speedster/gymnast/martial artist, has a natural DEX of 18 which she ramps up to 38 (although I'm currently looking at a revision which starts her at 23 DEX and ramps it up to 43 in Hero ID!)

Gary Ciaramella

Jun 22nd, '03, 04:49 AM

Much too sleepy to give in depth comments on spending XP, but something that leaps out if your characters INT and EGO. An INT of 13 would be a good investment, increasing your perception roll and any INT-based skills you have or might have. An EGO of 11 increases your ECV to a 4, 13 increases your EGO roll, and 14 ups you ECV to 5. Plus, who doesnt want to have a hero with a strong will?

BobGreenwade

Jun 22nd, '03, 05:38 AM

I'd say spread them around a tad.

1) Maybe he learns another Martial Arts maneuver.

2) Look in the USPD (either the book or the online supplement) under Cyberkinesis Powers and see if he might be able to build one or two small abilities from there.

3) What kind of weak points has he had in battle thus far? If he's been injured a lot, maybe he could get another pip of PD, ED, and/or BODY. If he's been missing a lot of blows, maybe he could take a Combat Skill Level or an extra pip or two of DEX.

4) Have there been opportunities for him to learn things in-game? For example, if he's been unfamiliar with the campaign city, maybe a 1-point Familiarity CK would be in order. If there's been a lot of contact with the Spanish-speaking community, maybe he can pick up one point worth of that language. You get the idea.

Blue Angel

Jun 22nd, '03, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Interesting character. I have one question: Why does his Left Arm Cable Weaponry cost as much as his Right Arm Cable Weaponry? In every example I've seen in CKC, duplicate powers like that only cost about 10% as much as the initial set, unless there is some specific reason you want to be able to use both simultaneously. So you may be screwing yourself out of about 50 CP.

Yes, there is that +5 pts for 2* equipment rule. I built a character with bracers using that rule. Works nice. Otherwise it just too expensive to pay all over again for the same powers.

Trebuchet

Jun 22nd, '03, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Blue Angel
Yes, there is that +5 pts for 2* equipment rule. I built a character with bracers using that rule. Works nice. Otherwise it just too expensive to pay all over again for the same powers. Do you know where in the rules this is stated? I'm not currently building any characters that would use it, but it seems like a good thing to know.

And it looks like BlueBuddha just saved 52 points on his character. Of course, that just exacerbates his problem. Now he has to figure out how to spend 76 CP. :cool:

Blue Angel

Jun 22nd, '03, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Trebuchet
Do you know where in the rules this is stated? I'm not currently building any characters that would use it, but it seems like a good thing to know.

And it looks like BlueBuddha just saved 52 points on his character. Of course, that just exacerbates his problem. Now he has to figure out how to spend 76 CP. :cool:

I believe the source is in 5E page 309... Yep there it is. Some villains are built using that adder for extra bases. It can also be used for multiple vehicles etc. When I ran into this double equipment problem form this character I put the question to Steve who offered it as a way to go about it.

Good luck with your 76 pts.

:D

TheEmerged

Jun 22nd, '03, 02:36 PM

Couple of little points. The following ALL assume your GM would allow them to do it in your campaign, as some of it involves changing what you have.

#1> +3 INT. Now. Go ahead, I'll wait.

#2> Character needs a second targetting sense outside the Sight group. Radar looks appropriate given the technological aspect of the character.

#3> Technically, your Entangle slot is illegal -- the added DEF score cannot more than double the "base" of the attack. Unless your GM allows it, of course...

#4> Seriously consider changing the Martial Dodge to a "Flying Dodge". 1 extra point, and admittedly 1 less DCV -- for the ability to do it after a full move. That's a trade I'll take any day, myself.

#5> Consider buying a couple of your multipower slots as Variable, to allow you to use them together.

#6> Depending on your campaign, you may want to give some unusual defenses a good hard look.

#7> Finally, I can't answer for your campaign but in mine 10" of movement usually isn't nearly enough.

BlueBuddha

Jun 22nd, '03, 07:10 PM

Wonderful! Lots of good ideas. I'll adress some of the the things said, in order:

I have one question: Why does his Left Arm Cable Weaponry cost as much as his Right Arm Cable Weaponry?
Because all of these powers come out of each of his arms, and he has two :). He was actually built this way back in 4E, without realizing it was a waste of points. When we upgraded to 5E, we decided to keep it that way to take advantage of the Multiple Power Attack rule. This way, he can use both arms at the same time. I think he could also double his Multipower reserve for the same effect, which would be cheaper, but there's also the advantage of each arm being technically seperate powers, and thus each would have to be drained or dispelled seperately.

As for DEX- I happen to already have one of the highest DEXs in the campaign. Our GM, in his move to 5E lowered everyone's DEX across the board, for his own reasons. It isn't a problem, since it's relative DEX / CV that really matters, it's just that we're not quite so much faster than normals as compared to other campaigns.

I like the idea of more martial maneuvers- particularly the flying dodge :).

Higher INT and EGO might be good as well, since my character has been spending time taking college courses and has been doing his share of planning and devising tactics for the party.

What kind of weak points has he had in battle thus far?
Mostly his inability to fly :) He does pretty good. Mostly due to my understanding of the combat rules

Have there been opportunities for him to learn things in-game? For example, if he's been unfamiliar with the campaign city, maybe a 1-point Familiarity CK would be in order. If there's been a lot of contact with the Spanish-speaking community, maybe he can pick up one point worth of that language. You get the idea.
Good idea. He recently inherited a business, and started taking classes to help manage it. I bought a PS: Nightclub management and 1 point of wealth. He bought a lexus and a new suit :)

Yes, there is that +5 pts for 2* equipment rule. I built a character with bracers using that rule. Works nice. Otherwise it just too expensive to pay all over again for the same powers.
This is, of course, for equipment. As it turns out, these weapons are natural, and built into his arm. It's biological, not man-made. Thus, I don't think this applies. Besides, I don't think it would apply to attack powers in a Superpowered game, even if they're bought through foci.

#1> +3 INT. Now. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Um, okay :)

#2> Character needs a second targetting sense outside the Sight group. Radar looks appropriate given the technological aspect of the character.
Good idea.

#3> Technically, your Entangle slot is illegal -- the added DEF score cannot more than double the "base" of the attack. Unless your GM allows it, of course...
You can blame my GM for that. He did it when updating to 5E. :)

#6> Depending on your campaign, you may want to give some unusual defenses a good hard look.
Very good idea. Some power defense would be nice.

#7> Finally, I can't answer for your campaign but in mine 10" of movement usually isn't nearly enough.

True, but between his clinging, zipping, and jumping, nothing gets in his way. We have 2 flyers in the group, and 2 non-flyers. I wouldn't want to leave the last guy behind. That's just embaressing :).

Thanks guys

BlueBuddha

Keneton

Jun 22nd, '03, 07:38 PM

Heroic Bravery +10 Presence, Defensive only (-1) 5 Points
Defense Maneuver to level 4 additional 5 Points
Rapid Attack HTH 5 pts.
Mental Defense 7 pts HIDO (5+ base 2), 4 Points

Total 19 Points spent.
:)

Jhamin

Jun 22nd, '03, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by TheEmerged
#3> Technically, your Entangle slot is illegal -- the added DEF score cannot more than double the "base" of the attack. Unless your GM allows it, of course...

Speaking as BlueBudda's GM....

DOH!!

We will just keep using it as is unless it causes problems. And I will read the rules more carefully in the future. Considering that Rachis was the second charcter I converted to 5th, I still think I did pretty good.

#5> Consider buying a couple of your multipower slots as Variable, to allow you to use them together.

This is kind of the effect he gets by buying two multipowers. The way I read it he would save 17 points by combining his multipowers and only having to buy each slot once, but He would lose the ability to make Multipower attacks, which has been a really effective tactic. (He has taken out a rouge Silver Avenger in one phase with a double Poison dart attack and some good rolls.)

I also don't know how you would justify it with his special effect. In the game Rachis is described as having a "gland" in each arm that allows him to excrete a resin that can either be sticky or hard, and can be formed into long cables. It ain't science, but it is Comic-booky.

#6> Depending on your campaign, you may want to give some unusual defenses a good hard look.

This might not be a bad idea. Hornet kind of took Rachis to town last night. Bluebudda was doing great until he got hit with that 6d6 Stun drain. I would say that given the origin of Rachis's powers it would not be at all unreasonable for him to have defences against biological based attacks. Mental Defense is debatable, I can easily see it as part of his powers, but I can also see why he might not have it. As the GM I would mostly be concerned about a character with both Power Def and Mental Def being too hard to hurt. Or am I overly sensitive?

#7> Finally, I can't answer for your campaign but in mine 10" of movement usually isn't nearly enough.

It isn't great but he usually keeps up. As BlueBudda has said, Rachis has proven to be able to get just about anywhere he needs to go. And Buzzsaw thanks you for not abandoning him.

Jhamin

Jun 22nd, '03, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Blue Angel
I believe the source is in 5E page 309... Yep there it is. Some villains are built using that adder for extra bases. It can also be used for multiple vehicles etc. When I ran into this double equipment problem form this character I put the question to Steve who offered it as a way to go about it.

Good luck with your 76 pts.

:D

Bluebudda is correct in stating that these powers aren't in equipment, they are part of his arms. Seeing as the rule is explicitly for equipment I don't think it applies. (Does it?)

I have seen and used this rule, but just for the record it states in the last sentance on 309 that:

"This is a quick and easy way to simulate characters who carry lots of back-up weapons or who want to own a fleet of vehicles".

Seeing as it is meant for "backup" weapons I have ruled that you can't use your extra gear as part of a multipower attack. It seems to me that it is intended more for the guy who carries four pisols, but only actually uses one at a time. I have generally asked folks who want to use a gun in each hand to buy two guns and then spend the +5 for backups.

CrosshairCollie

Jun 22nd, '03, 11:02 PM

I'm not familiar with Multiple Power Attacks (i have yet to build a character really capable of them) ... but if a Multipower Reserve is big enough, couldn't you use two powers in the same MP for it, provided each is paid for separately when you divvy up the Reserve? For example:

100 pt Multipower
20m 6.5d6 RKA
20m 20d6 EB

Couldn't you put 50 in one slot, 50 in the other, and shoot 'em both at once? Not that it's remotely efficient, but still, couldn't you?

Jhamin

Jun 22nd, '03, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
I'm not familiar with Multiple Power Attacks (i have yet to build a character really capable of them) ... but if a Multipower Reserve is big enough, couldn't you use two powers in the same MP for it, provided each is paid for separately when you divvy up the Reserve? For example:

100 pt Multipower
20m 6.5d6 RKA
20m 20d6 EB

Couldn't you put 50 in one slot, 50 in the other, and shoot 'em both at once? Not that it's remotely efficient, but still, couldn't you?

Yes you could, but in this case the character often wants to double up with the same slot, fireing a pair of Spikes or Poison Darts at the same target. To do this you would have to buy each slot twice, which defeats to savings of combining them into one Multipower. You are also vulnerable to having the whole thing impared with a supress or dispel which is less likely with a pair of multipowers.

Rachis could likely save a few points by having an "omnibus" multipower that includes all the slost listed and a second "combat" multipower that only has attacks in it, that way he only buys his attack slots twice and his utility slots once and can stil make multiple power attacks, but for symmetry and special effect purposes this is alot cleaner.

Elysea

Jun 23rd, '03, 06:59 AM

A lot of great suggestions for tuning the character up -- but if you're happy enough with how he currently performs and you're more interested in branching out, personally, I'd pick up Find Weakness, if your GM will allow it. Perhaps he's just reached that level of martial-arts bad-assness, perhaps he can detect imperfections in the genetic codes of others... Just my two cents. Otherwise, I'd recommend picking up some 5-point DCV combat skill levels. I'm seeing Dex 18 (DCV 6) and one 8-point CSL, and your martial maneuvers adding 2-3 DCV, and +5 DCV martial dodge? I'd say that's passable but not great by speedster/martial artist standards, your campaign may have different standards though. My motto is, "Getting hit is the first step towards losing." :)

Blue Angel

Jun 23rd, '03, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Jhamin
Bluebudda is correct in stating that these powers aren't in equipment, they are part of his arms. Seeing as the rule is explicitly for equipment I don't think it applies. (Does it?)

I have seen and used this rule, but just for the record it states in the last sentance on 309 that:

"This is a quick and easy way to simulate characters who carry lots of back-up weapons or who want to own a fleet of vehicles".

It says "a quick and easy way to..." not the only thing you can do with it. So it is not just meant for backup weapons and vehicles just because it says you can use it for that.

But I respect the GM's right to mitigate the rule in their campaign.

Having it as a gland does seem to rule out the +5 for times two equipment rule since it is not "equipment". To be honest I had not considered the multiple power attack rule in this case. For the character I had built it was more a matter of using the utility functions in one bracer while the other may make an attack. And also the fact that if one arm is grabbed the other is free to attack.(not unlike a regular EB I suppose) I guess the +5 rule does give the ability to have the affect of a larger multipower for relatively few points.

Hmmmm... I am going to have to think about that some more.

TheEmerged

Jun 23rd, '03, 01:27 PM

From where I sit, if the player expects to do multiple-power attacks s/he is going to have to pay for the multipowers seperately, ala Mechanon, or an oversized multipower pool with redundant slots.

Blue Angel

Jun 23rd, '03, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by TheEmerged
From where I sit, if the player expects to do multiple-power attacks s/he is going to have to pay for the multipowers seperately, ala Mechanon, or an oversized multipower pool with redundant slots.

Or apply an autofire (2) to simulate the ability to make two attacks. It is more cost affective and nearly as combat effective.

Jhamin

Jun 23rd, '03, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Blue Angel
For the character I had built it was more a matter of using the utility functions in one bracer while the other may make an attack. And also the fact that if one arm is grabbed the other is free to attack.(not unlike a regular EB I suppose) I guess the +5 rule does give the ability to have the affect of a larger multipower for relatively few points.

Hmmmm... I am going to have to think about that some more.

Precisely

To me, the first aspect of this (Using multiple slots in a multipower while only buying one) is kind of abusive.

The second aspect (Using a bracer on one arm when another is grabbed) is probably worth 5 points.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the +5 pts, x2 equipment rule. I just think it needs to be limited to spare gear and not used as a cheap way to buy duplicate slots or even extra multipowers.

Bluebudda's been using Rachis in my game in this way ever since FREd came out and I have really felt that the point cost pretty accurately reflects the utility he gets out of being able to use two slots in the same phase. The multipower attack rule was one of my biggest issues with FREd when I switched to 5th. I have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised. As long as you make the character pay for the ability it is both usefull and balanced.

Blue Angel

Jun 23rd, '03, 03:51 PM

What do you guys think of this common power 2d6HKA claws?

Obviously the character can't use both claws to attack simultaneously but if one claw/hand is grabbed the other is still available. Also I believe that if you buy EB comes from your hands that you can fire from either if you wish so the same rule applies. At no extra points two slightly limited ones are available for the price of one. How is this different from the multipower example, other than the presence of the framework?

Jhamin

Jun 23rd, '03, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Blue Angel
What do you guys think of this common power 2d6HKA claws?

Obviously the character can't use both claws to attack simultaneously but if one claw/hand is grabbed the other is still available. Also I believe that if you buy EB comes from your hands that you can fire from either if you wish so the same rule applies. At no extra points two slightly limited ones are available for the price of one. How is this different from the multipower example, other than the presence of the framework?

This really comes down to special effects. You can define a HKA as anything you want. It may be claws, or a sword, flaming fists, a disintegration touch, or a spike-covered body. If your special effect indicates that grabbing your arm stops the HKA, then it is stopped. If it logically wouldn't be, then it isn't. There is an art to balancing the pros and cons of a good special effect with keeping a charcter within concept. It is logical that some charcters could fire an energy blast from either hand, and that should help them from time to time, but having a "gun arm" would probably come in handy about as often. It's all about special effect.

Now a charcter that can fire a blast from both hands at the same time is markedly better off than a character who can fire from either hand one at a time. This means that he has to pay points. It is explicitly stated that when you have a special effect that starts being useful far beyond what is normally found in a special effect you have to pay points for it.

Jhamin

Jun 23rd, '03, 04:27 PM

By the way

Bluebudda, I appear to have hijacked your thread. Sorry, didn't mean to.

So, anybody have any more good advice as to how this hero can improve his ability to whomp over my villians?

Blue Angel

Jun 23rd, '03, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Jhamin
By the way

Bluebudda, I appear to have hijacked your thread. Sorry, didn't mean to.

So, anybody have any more good advice as to how this hero can improve his ability to whomp over my villians?

Umm... Start a new thread?

TheEmerged

Jun 23rd, '03, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Blue Angel
Or apply an autofire (2) to simulate the ability to make two attacks. It is more cost affective and nearly as combat effective.

Works great if you're doing the same attack both times. Works not so great if you're wanting to hit someone with both an Entangle from one and the NND from the other...

BlueBuddha

Jun 23rd, '03, 09:16 PM

Hehe. A few comments:

The +5 for double the equipment seems to somewhat follow the "+5 for double the followers, double the summonees, double the number of multiples," etc. The maximum coolness that any one instance is capable of doesn't increase, just the number of occurances of that coolness does :). Make sense?

In this case, having a hundred guns doesn't make you 100 times deadlier in any given combat, it only means you're not gonna run out of guns real soon. In fact, if a character shot two guns, I'd say they'd still have to pay full price for both guns (assuming they wanted to go with the strategy I use) at full price, and be allowed to pay the +5 to double it beyond that, with the assumption that all the guns beyond the two he's holding are holsterd, or stashed in his car, etc. He can still only fire 2 at a time. What you get for the +5 points is the option of grabbing another once someone has disarmed you of your OAF.

Having said all that, the above situation doesn't in any way apply to my character. I could handle this in a number of ways, and I'm happy with the way it works now. I'd like to mention again that if someone wanted to drain/suppress/dispell my arm, I'd still have another, which wouldn't be the case if I bought a large reserve, or autofire.

As for the suggestions made, I'm seriously considering increasing my INT and EGO a bit, picking up a new defense (probably Power, of some sort), and taking Flying dodge. I can just picture my character flipping around with bullets whizzing all around him. Hehe.

Thanks again,

BlueBuddha

Blue Angel

Jun 24th, '03, 01:13 PM

Except you don't have to leave your extra followers stashed in the car just because you didn't pay full price for them. ;) Same goes for extra duplicates.

The problem with Hero is that there are too many ways to build things which are "legal".