Sam Rami to do a Pulp Film?

[Kharis2000]

I ran across these three items this week. You may trust them as you will, although the last one, by Harry Knowles at Ain't It Cool News seems the most reasoned. Cross your fingers, folks.

*****

Item One:

Doc Savage, The Shadow & The Avenger in one movie?

Posted : December 7, 2006 Writer : Clint Morris

Still 18 days until Christmas, but the presents have already started to pour in.

Get your mitts on this little beauty: Sam Raimi is going to make a film that’ll team-up some of the pulp heroes of yesteryear, like The Shadow, The Avenger and Doc Savage. Better than a pair of undies with your initials on them, right?!

According to FilmForce, the “Spider-Man” director has inked a deal with Street and Smith Publications – the troops who put person to page on the abovementioned series’ and more – to bring some (if not all) of the legendary characters to life on the big screen. Yep, it’ll be a Justice League of sorts.

Here’s an extra gift on top of that news: Raimi isn’t just producing, or overseeing the project, he’ll be directing it too.

Hollywood has dabbled with the Street and Smith characters before – they cast Alec Baldwin in a film version of “The Shadow” in 1994, and tried to get a “Doc Savage” – which Arnold Schwarzenegger would’ve starred in – movie off the ground a few times too.

Thanks to ‘Stax’


Item Two:

Raimi Planning Pulp Hero Saga
Posted: Thursday December 7th 2006 1:14am
Source: IGN Filmforce
Author: Garth Franklin



Doc Savage, The Shadow, The Avenger and several other pulp hero characters from the Street and Smith Publications range might all be hitting the big screen in one big feature.

IGN Filmforce has learned that "Spider-Man" filmmaker Sam Raimi is planning a project which would unite the various characters together using a script by Siavash Farahani ("Ingenue", "Ruse").

Characters from such titles as The Wizard & Cash Gorman, Crime Busters, The Skipper, The Whisperer, Bill Barnes Air Trails, Nick Carter Magazine, Pete Rice Magazine and Unknown, as well as other crime and Western books.

"The Shadow" had previously been adapted into a 1994 Alec Baldwin-led action movie and at last word both a new version of it, and a separate film version of "Doc Savage" were in the works - but certainly nothing as elaborate as this.

The rumour comes as surprising and a little dubious, on the other hand the site is known for its relatively thorough fact checking and will rarely print outright rumours without some basis in fact. Let's see how this unfolds.


Item Three:

Sam Raimi making the Street & Smith Pulp Universe Collide with DOC SAVAGE, THE SHADOW, NICK CARTER and more?
Hey folks, Harry here... Over at IGN - Stax is running a story about how Sam Raimi has allegedly committed to direct a project that would unite the classic Street & Smith Publications characters - like Doc Savage, The Avenger, The Shadow and possibly the rest of their heroes gallery and rogues gallery into the mother of all pulp projects. You can read their story at the link above.
Well. I'm not going to say the story is wrong, as I haven't spoken directly with Sam Raimi - though I do have a call into his office. But for the last year I've been tracking Raimi's development of Street and Smith Publications.

You see. Sam's biggest passion from their catalogue is THE SHADOW. Prior to Alec Baldwin getting a nose in on the gig, Raimi was attempting to get the property at Universal - with the Coen Brothers set to write it up for him to direct. That fell through - and he made DARKMAN as a reaction. It was around this same time that he lost out on BATMAN. However, Marty Bregman thought the HIGHLANDER guy was the better route to go. Eh... 20/20 is a bitch.

In the last year or so - I've heard that Raimi has been taking meetings with various directors to discuss a possible DOC SAVAGE film. But closer to home, I've heard that Raimi had found a writer for his THE SHADOW movie, but that no commitments were in hand, as of yet.

As for the whole Street and Smith character library - It's possible that Raimi just optioned them all with that big SPIDER-MAN money and in reality was planning this project that IGN has a scoop on. HOWEVER - this is all rumor at this point.

Like I said. I know for a fact that THE SHADOW and DOC SAVAGE are separate projects that were being developed as separate projects at least 4 months ago. I'll continue to knock on Raimi's door to get to the truth, but at this point the only one that knows for sure, is his Shadow...

[Michael Hopcroft]

I'm going to be heretical and say that I loved The Shadow. It wasn't a superb movie, but it wasn't a bad one either. The concept of the "benevolent conspiracy" woven throughout the film is one I am very fond of and would loved to have seen more done with, and they did some really nice things with "the power to cloud men's minds".

[Blue]

I think the Shadow was pretty lackluster as a film. But I can easily see Raimi doing something cool.

Personally, I'm not familiar with "The Avenger".

[Spence]

While I know for a fact any movie by Hollywood will not meet the my vision of them based on the books. I did enjoy the Shadow a lot, even if Alec Baldwin is low on my list of actors. Raimi does have a good list of great shows to his credit. I think this could be done, and be good.

[OddHat]

The Avenger was the world's greatest master of disguise, thanks to a face that was naturally chalk white and could be reshaped like clay. No, it didn't make much sense. He blended Doc Savage and Shadow tropes.

Most interesting (to me) was his choice of assistants. Nellie Gray was a small woman skilled in judo and often allowed to use it to get herself out of trouble and even rescue the leading man. Josh and Rosabel were highly skilled African American detectives, depicted with a lot of respect for the time. Smitty was a huge, almost superhumanly strong electronics expert, and Mac was a Scottish chemist. Interesting team. The whole group would make good Pulp Hero player characters.

You might be familliar with the DC Comic staring the Avenger. Its title has a place in HERO History.

It was called Justice, Inc.

[Thia Halmades]

I've never read the pulps or anything associated with them, but I've enjoyed watching Sam Raimi grow as a director. I considered Spider-Man 2 leaps and bounds ahead of Spider-Man, and 3 looks spectacular. I can get down with some pulp action if he's at the camera.

[BigJackBrass]

You might be familliar with the DC Comic staring the Avenger. Its title has a place in HERO History.

It was called Justice, Inc.

And indeed that is also the title of the first Avenger novel, which is a real ripsnorting pulp read.

[Dr. Shiny]

This could go either way. Darkman was basically the Avenger mixed with some EC style horror imagery. Plus, it was excellent. I'm a bit worried about putting several pulp mystery men in one movie though. Pulp mystery men are more detailed than most superheroes, will this film take the time to illustrate that? And how many assistants do all these guys have in total? How would a pulp version of Crisis on Infinite Earths work out anyways? Eh, who am i kidding, they'll have to pry me out of the theater.

Oh, hi everybody. first time poster, long time sporadic lurker

[Narratio]

Hmmm, back in the early 70's Ron Ely starred as Doc Savage - Man of Bronze'. Enough footage was shot for 2 films, but they never made a second. It was all done for laughs, like Adam Wests Batman. Since then, we've had a lackluster 'Shadow', Baldwin tried but couldn't quite pull it off. Then we had "The Phantom', with Billy Zane doing a decent job on a poor script.

If I was to bet on a director for a pulp, it would be Raimi. Although Rodriguez is a possible after what he did with Sin City, and there's always Tim Burtons bizarre take on life. He could do justice to the genre.

[Publius]

Sign me up for heresy, I liked the Shadow (ironically I am watching it now on Cable) and despite the huge gaping plotholes and awful script, I liked The Phantom as well. I recall the Doc Savage movie from the 70s, and I thought it was a mess, but it is the only Doc on film that we have. If were to do Doc for laughs (which I wouldn't to be honest) I'd have Doc embrace his homoerotic side. Bronzed skin, perfect physical condition, avoids women like the plague and hangs out with a bunch of guys who are totally superfluous (since he can do anything and everything far better than they can anyway). Embrace your inner metrosexual Big Guy!

[Sketchpad]

I loved the Phantom :) Didn't mind the Shadow either ... but also enjoyed the Rocketeer :)

[ThothAmon]

I'm going to be heretical and say that I loved The Shadow. It wasn't a superb movie, but it wasn't a bad one either. The concept of the "benevolent conspiracy" woven throughout the film is one I am very fond of and would loved to have seen more done with, and they did some really nice things with "the power to cloud men's minds".

I'll second that. It is a significantly under-rated flick comtaining some superb moments. Stylistically it was 100% on-the-ball and did some good stuff with characterisation.

I'd love to see decent modern adaptations of Doc Savage and the Avenger. Much as I love the 70's George Pal flick for its shiny, faithful attitude (and Ron Ely fit the part soooo well) I think the Man of Bronze could do some good box office. I never understood why S&S didn't follow up on Doc Savage after the success of the Indiana Jones movies :confused:

[st barbara]

How can you NOT like a film that features a villain who can hypnotize an ENTIRE city into believing a skyscraper doesn't exist , has heros chasing (and I think being chased by) an atomic bomb rolling through hotel corridors and has a red/green colourblind man deciding whether to cut the red or the green wire !:)

[BigJackBrass]

How can you NOT like a film that features a villain who can hypnotize an ENTIRE city into believing a skyscraper doesn't exist , has heros chasing (and I think being chased by) an atomic bomb rolling through hotel corridors and has a red/green colourblind man deciding whether to cut the red or the green wire !:)

And Tim Curry, of course.

[st barbara]

I loved the Phantom :) Didn't mind the Shadow either ... but also enjoyed the Rocketeer :) I enjoyed both "The Phantom" (Billy Zane was somewhat wooden but Treat Williams was, well a treat!) and "The Rocketeer". It was great to see Alan Arkin in a significant role as I hadn't seen him in anything for quite a while before that.

[st barbara]

And Tim Curry, of course. Moreover Tim Curry doing his lunatic impression ! Although I WILL say that he isn't much of a shot with a tommy gun !:rolleyes:

[st barbara]

A Coen brothers version of "The Shadow" ? That'd be SO COOL !:thumbup:

[Trebuchet]

Doc Savage and The Shadow in one Raimi flick? And they say God is dead... :celebrate

[BigJackBrass]

And they say God is dead... :celebrate

Nah, if Raimi does the film then he'll probably be in it, played by Bruce Campbell.

[Dr. Shiny]

Apparently it's just the Shadow now

http://www.superherohype.com/news.php?id=4988

[Narratio]

Raimi and Campbell go together like ham and cheese. They're bonded at the hip. From the Evil dead, through Xena and the Spiderman's, plus Campbells "man with the screaming brain" Bruce and the Raimi brothers are like the modern day Marx brothers, inseperable.

(Hmm, I wonder which one is Chico?)

[Twilight]

Not like it's a bad thing. His partnership with Campbell was what got Raimi noticed in the first place after all, which eventually led to him directing the awesome Spidey movies. :)

[st barbara]

Bruce Campbell as Lamont Cranston/The Shadow ? Hmm. I suppose that if he can play Elvis (in "Bubba Hotep") he can do ANYONE ! Appropos of nothing I finally got my DVD copy of the Alec Baldwin "Shadow" on DVD yesterday (via "Amazon").:thumbup:

[freakboy6117]

The shadow, was a beautiful movie. The production design was sumptuous and perfectly captured the pulp style. The casting was impeccable, the score, cinematography and even the editing where superb.

even the acting was pretty good, considering what the excellent cast had to work with.

it was just that the script was pure dross like republic serial or perhaps the original shadow radio series while it conveyed the pulp concept well it failed a modern movie especially such a well made one.

compared to my all time favorite modern pulp style movie the rocketeer. (sorry indie but i didn't turn my popcorn bucket into a hat and whip) a movie which had not only beautiful production and an excellent cast but also a well written script.

the schlockeyness of the script for the shadow just didn't draw you in in fact the jarring juxtaposition of high quality movie b grade dialogue ruin the sense of disbelief

[freakboy6117]

st Barbra he was a bad guy bad guys can't hit targets with automatic weapons!
tommy guns in movies exist purely to keep plasters, furniture makers and the occasional stone mason employed.

[starblaze]

I liked the Shadow, I thought it was a great film and I own the DVD. Doc Savage was terrible if for any reason it was the John Phillip Sousa music. At one point in the film I actually muted the movie when that stupid crap came out.

What I liked about the Shadow was how it combined the elements of the novel Shadow, with many agents, and the hypnotism from the radio show. I espeicially liked the interplay between Cranston and Top bad guy (can't remember his name right now).

[Kharis2000]

I recall reading an interview/comment/something by the scriptwriter for the 90's Shadow in which he explained that he'd written the script after listening to the radio shows and had not read the novels until some time after the release of the film, thus explaining why the movie's script was less than sterling. (I do agree that the castiong, sets, costumes, and cinematography were great, though.)

[Werehawk]

Since we seem to agree that Sam Raimi is a great choice for directing this project, what are your ideas for the cast?

Here's mine

The Shadow - - Hugh Jackman (With or without accent)
Margot Lane - - Rachel MacAdams (My choice for the Invisable Girl)
The Avenger - - Cillian Murphey (MacAdams' "Red Eye" partner)
Doc Savage - - Daniel Craig or Eric Bana(With his hair dyed Blonde)

The Villian would likely be Shiwan Kahn since both the Avenger and Doc Savage have no arch villians to speak of. My choice for Kahn would be Ken Watanabe.

Just an idea.

[Spence]

I am open to any line-up as long as they have.........

Zepplins!!!

:D :D :D

[st barbara]

st Barbra he was a bad guy bad guys can't hit targets with automatic weapons!
tommy guns in movies exist purely to keep plasters, furniture makers and the occasional stone mason employed. Of course ! It's "the law of villanous marksmanship"! Those Mongol warriors were pretty good shots with their crossbows however.:)

[st barbara]

Since we seem to agree that Sam Raimi is a great choice for directing this project, what are your ideas for the cast?

Here's mine

The Shadow - - Hugh Jackman (With or without accent)
Margot Lane - - Rachel MacAdams (My choice for the Invisable Girl)
The Avenger - - Cillian Murphey (MacAdams' "Red Eye" partner)
Doc Savage - - Daniel Craig or Eric Bana(With his hair dyed Blonde)

The Villian would likely be Shiwan Kahn since both the Avenger and Doc Savage have no arch villians to speak of. My choice for Kahn would be Ken Watanabe.

Just an idea. Shiwan Khan teams up with Johnny Sunlight to REALLY make life tough for our heros !:eek:

[Spence]

any guess as to the year it will take place in?

[Flames]

My casting choices would be:

The Shadow/Lamont Cranston: Adrian Brody
The Avenger/Dick Benson: Christian Slater
Doc Savage: Ewan MacGregor

[st barbara]

I think that one of the important points of the casting is the SIZE of the characters. "Doc Savage" should be at least a head taller (and rather more muscular) than "The Shadow" and "The Avenger" should be the smallest of the three.

[BigJackBrass]

I think that one of the important points of the casting is the SIZE of the characters. "Doc Savage" should be at least a head taller (and rather more muscular) than "The Shadow" and "The Avenger" should be the smallest of the three.

Then again, Hugh Jackman is exactly one foot taller than Wolverine is supposed to be, so it's not always something they lose sleep over in the movie biz.

[st barbara]

True "BigJackBrass" ! However I think that the RELATIVE size of the characters to each other is important for something like this. If the actor they get to play "Doc" is say 6ft 3'' tall, then whoever plays "The Shadow" should be shorter and whoever plays "The Avenger" should be shorter again.

[Spence]

True "BigJackBrass" ! However I think that the RELATIVE size of the characters to each other is important for something like this. If the actor they get to play "Doc" is say 6ft 3'' tall, then whoever plays "The Shadow" should be shorter and whoever plays "The Avenger" should be shorter again.

Easy there turbo....

Use too much logic around the movie industry and there might be a bad reaction....;)

[BigJackBrass]

True "BigJackBrass" ! However I think that the RELATIVE size of the characters to each other is important for something like this.

Oh, I agree. In the X-Men movies, though, there was clearly no thought given to this. After years of people calling Wolverine "runt" and "shorty" he was suddenly towering over all of them (must have answered one of those ads that used to be in the back of comicbooks or something) - and strangely I noticed that by Wolverine: The End (a comic series from a couple of years ago) he was even being drawn as a very tall individual.

The differences between The Shadow and The Avenger wouldn't bother me too much on screen, but Doc Savage definitely needs to be tall and in almost superhuman physical shape, otherwise much of his characterisation would seem off. Which I guess means we won't see Simon Pegg playing him :D

[st barbara]

"The Avenger" is actually descibed as being "just five foot eight and 165 lbs" (quoted in "The Great Pulp Heros" by Don Hutchison)so I think that we need someone small and wiry to play him, just as we need a tall, muscular looking actor for "Doc" with "The Shadow" in between in terms of size and build. As to just WHO should play the parts I couldn't say as I am not well enough up on the actors in hollywood etc these days. If they can get capable actors, AND get the relative sizes of the characters right, plus a decent script we could be in for a treat ! (Yeah I know i'm asking a lot !:) )

[st barbara]

Easy there turbo....

Use too much logic around the movie industry and there might be a bad reaction....;) You mean like casting Tom Cruise as Doc Savage and a couple of dwarves in the other parts ?Blechh !:eg:

[BigJackBrass]

You mean like casting Tom Cruise as Doc Savage and a couple of dwarves in the other parts ?Blechh !:eg:

I think that to be technically correct that should read: "You mean like casting Tom Cruise as Doc Savage and a couple of other dwarfs in the other parts." :D

[st barbara]

Now "Big Jack" don't be "heightist" ! Those poor dwarves would probably feel terribly insulted by your including Cruise among their number !

[Spence]

I think that to be technically correct that should read: "You mean like casting Tom Cruise as Doc Savage and a couple of other dwarfs in the other parts." :D

Hey! Cruise could do it. He has his own milk crate to stand on :D

[telemachus]

This could go either way. Darkman was basically the Avenger mixed with some EC style horror imagery.

Darkman was a lot closer to DC's Unknown Soldier than he was to The Avenger, right down to the bandaged face. http://www.geocities.com/the_time_trust_2000/dcwar/unknown.htm

Why DC's lawyers didn't come a' knockin' remains a mystery to me.

[Curufea]

I liked the Shadow and the Phantom - they both had that certain cheese factor that was very reminiscent of the radioplays and comics (I have many of the radioplays). Although I only own The Shadow DVD - I didn't like the overt magic item in the Phantom - it was a bit out of genre.

As to Eric Bana as Doc Savage. No. He could do Chopper (in which he was scarily good), but other than that, he's not really an actor - The Hulk and Troy proved that. He should stick to his standup.

Daniel Craig would be good. Has the level of intelligence needed (not that I know much about Doc Savage, he's not a pulp serial I followed).


Sam Raimi is a very good choice for pulp.

[Spence]

I liked the Shadow and the Phantom - they both had that certain cheese factor that was very reminiscent of the radioplays and comics (I have many of the radioplays). Although I only own The Shadow DVD - I didn't like the overt magic item in the Phantom - it was a bit out of genre.

As to Eric Bana as Doc Savage. No. He could do Chopper (in which he was scarily good), but other than that, he's not really an actor - The Hulk and Troy proved that. He should stick to his standup.

Daniel Craig would be good. Has the level of intelligence needed (not that I know much about Doc Savage, he's not a pulp serial I followed).


Sam Raimi is a very good choice for pulp.

This is from memory so I might be wrong or have them mixed up

Doc Savage was accompanied by several followers. Ham (lawyer), Renny (construction engineer, dams, buildings, etc.), Monk (chemical engineer), Long Tom(?) (electrical everything), Johnny (archeology) .

Each of his companions were a leading world expert in their fields, if not THE worlds greatest.

Doc was better than them in everything, a certifiable genius in anything. He was also an example of the pinnacle of human physical capability. Sorta a Pulp era superman.

[st barbara]

People have pointed out the similarities between Doc Savage and Superman before. Doc was "the man of bronze", Supes "the man of steel", both had a "fortress of solitude" where they went to be alone, both are orphaned at the start of their adventures and both have the christian name "Clark". (I'm sure that there were other similarities, but those are the ones that I remember)

[Spence]

People have pointed out the similarities between Doc Savage and Superman before. Doc was "the man of bronze", Supes "the man of steel", both had a "fortress of solitude" where they went to be alone, both are orphaned at the start of their adventures and both have the christian name "Clark". (I'm sure that there were other similarities, but those are the ones that I remember)

I don't think the comparison is that far off. Doc Savage was as was as developed as possible without crossing into supernatural or meta-powers. While stretching things a bit, he still stayed within human possibility. Superman on the other hand simply ignored human limits and never looked back.

Between the two I find Doc to be more interesting than Supes. I would really like to see a movie now that they have the tech to pull it off.

[telemachus]

People have pointed out the similarities between Doc Savage and Superman before. Doc was "the man of bronze", Supes "the man of steel", both had a "fortress of solitude" where they went to be alone, both are orphaned at the start of their adventures and both have the christian name "Clark". (I'm sure that there were other similarities, but those are the ones that I remember)

It should be pointed out, too, that Superman borrowed heavily from Philip Wylie's excellent "Gladiator" published in 1930, at least where his rural upbringing, his super powers and their origins are concerned. Where Superman and "Gladiator" differ is in the generally dower mood of Wylie's story, dealing more with ideas later used in Marvel's Spider-Man and X-Men comics.

I highly recommend giving Gladiator a read. If it's hard to find, I do know that Howard Chaykin recently adapted the book as "Legend". I haven't read it, but if you're a fan of Chaykin, it could at least be an entertaining read.

[telemachus]

...and that should be "dour", not "dower".

[st barbara]

It should be pointed out, too, that Superman borrowed heavily from Philip Wylie's excellent "Gladiator" published in 1930, at least where his rural upbringing, his super powers and their origins are concerned. Where Superman and "Gladiator" differ is in the generally dower mood of Wylie's story, dealing more with ideas later used in Marvel's Spider-Man and X-Men comics.

I highly recommend giving Gladiator a read. If it's hard to find, I do know that Howard Chaykin recently adapted the book as "Legend". I haven't read it, but if you're a fan of Chaykin, it could at least be an entertaining read.

I think that "Gladiator" has been republished only fairly recently, so it shouldn't be too hard to find. I agree that it is excellent, as is most of Wylie's work.

[Curufea]

Wasn't there a fair bit of the Jewish legend of the Golem in there as well? Or am I thinking of a different superhero?

[telemachus]

Wasn't there a fair bit of the Jewish legend of the Golem in there as well? Or am I thinking of a different superhero?

If we're still talking Gladiator here, then no. Hugo Danner's father injected a solution into him while still in his mother's womb, giving him his abilities. The story is science fiction in the traditional sense in that it deals with (admittedly off-the-mark) scientific probabilities and logic and like that.