Discworld HERO

[Michael Hopcroft]

Has anyone given any thoughts to how the Discworld would work in HERO?

Anthropomorphic Personifications (including Death with family issues), A Guld for everything, the Unseen University. How would this work?

[keithcurtis]

Death, the Soul Cake Duck, Old Man Trouble, et al. are probably best handled as plot devices. As for how to handle the various Guilds of Ankh-Morpork, I probably wouldn't bother with rule write-ups. Are they necessary?

Races would be interesting. Troll intelligence would definitely require a limitation. Most trolls would probably buy +10 (+15?) Int with a mandatory limitation that they could only access +2 per temperature level shift downward from the norm.

Female dwarfs would need Soc Lim: Secret - Female.

Vampires would probably be the most expensive.

The hardest to actually quantify would be witches. They rarely use magic and rarely need to. But when they do...

Keith "20 Pre, Headology 18-, and a rock solid Rep will get you pretty durn far" Curtis

Jacob

[Curufea]

Trolls should also have increased density, damage reduction and extended lifespan (with really old trolls becoming mountains). Disads of dislike/distrust or hate for Dwarfs (one too many mining accidents). KS: Koom Valley history.
Trolls eat rocks in similar manner to organic beings eating food. There are drugs for trolls as well. Usually mixtures of industrial chemicals.

Dwarfs would have a very mild addiction for Rats. Possibly start with many weapon familiarities - including for Dwarf Bread.

There aren't that many guilds, or at least major guilds. From what I remember there is just a guild for each major trade -
Bakers, Carpenters, Weavers, Assassins, Thieves, Beggars, Ladies of Negotiable Affection.

Witches should have a VPP for contacts (or at least Nanny Ogg should).

[assault]

I would give perks for certain Guild positions. Mainly the Guild heads, though. This would reflect their ability to, for example, front up to the Patrician's palace and expect to be admitted to his presence. Being the Archchancellor be worth more points, although these would typically be offset by buying Hunted: Ambitious Wizards. (Ridcully being an exception.)

And yes, incidentally, it would be possible for a PC to become Archchancellor, pre-Ridcully. Their life expectancy was that short. You could even have a PC become Patrician, pre-Veterinari, although I don't recall Pratchett killing them off quite as rapidly as he went through Archchancellors. Of course you could always set a game in some other century, which would make all such positions available, although at the expense of not being able to (directly) use the NPCs you might want to have around.

As for magic: clearly it can do a lot, but there seem to be some serious limitations on what even powerful wizards like Ridcully can do. For example, in Lords and Ladies, he teleports himself and Granny Weatherwax once - but can't do it a second time. In any case, even wizards seem to only use magic when it is necessary.

Obviously the GURPS Discworld supplements would be worth looking at if you have access to them. The Discworld Companion (or, preferably its updated edition, which I've only just realised existed, thanks to Googling while writing this post!) is an obvious must.

[Lucius]

Female dwarfs would need Soc Lim: Secret - Female.

Jacob

Umm....why? It's no more a "secret" than being male is. Male or female, for the average Dwarf, most people simply won't know what your gender is - and unless they're marriage-minded, won't care. Traditional Dwarf society simply doesn't make any distinction between one gender and the other, not even linguistically. In their greatest love story, which is also the epic of their first Low King, no one knows which of the pair was of which gender, and there's a 50% chance their first Low King was in fact female - and to the Dwarves there's nothing odd in the fact that this detail is lost to their history.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary has a Y chromosome and a Y-not chromosome.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Trolls should also have increased density, damage reduction and extended lifespan (with really old trolls becoming mountains). Disads of dislike/distrust or hate for Dwarfs (one too many mining accidents). KS: Koom Valley history.
Trolls eat rocks in similar manner to organic beings eating food. There are drugs for trolls as well. Usually mixtures of industrial chemicals.

Dwarfs would have a very mild addiction for Rats. Possibly start with many weapon familiarities - including for Dwarf Bread.

There aren't that many guilds, or at least major guilds. From what I remember there is just a guild for each major trade -
Bakers, Carpenters, Weavers, Assassins, Thieves, Beggars, Ladies of Negotiable Affection.

Witches should have a VPP for contacts (or at least Nanny Ogg should).

Trolls also get Wealth as part of their racial package, possibly with some Side Effects.
Diamond teeth and all that... we've seen at least one troll bust out teeth for emergency funds (in Soul Music)

[Curufea]

I was just thinking that if you become the head of a Guild, you should also get Hunted: other heads of other Guilds, to reflect Vetinari's policy of having everyone approaching his rank squabbling amongst themselves.

Leonard of Quirm would have a gadget pool and accidental change to diabolically evil scientist (invisible power effects) or something similar to reflect his innocent and random inventions of megadeath dealing devices.

Carrot has DF: Not the King and his sword has DF: Plain ordinary non-magical sword that is definitely NOT an heirloom or magical in any way.

Vimes has Reputation: Regicide.

[keithcurtis]

Umm....why? It's no more a "secret" than being male is. Male or female, for the average Dwarf, most people simply won't know what your gender is - and unless they're marriage-minded, won't care. Traditional Dwarf society simply doesn't make any distinction between one gender and the other, not even linguistically. In their greatest love story, which is also the epic of their first Low King, no one knows which of the pair was of which gender, and there's a 50% chance their first Low King was in fact female - and to the Dwarves there's nothing odd in the fact that this detail is lost to their history.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary has a Y chromosome and a Y-not chromosome.

I believe they use the male pronoun solely, at least in Morporkian. My feeling has always been the assumption is that every dwarf is male. No one gets the heebie-jeebies if a dwarf announces his own male gender, but it is considered rude to announce your female gender, even if you are not wearing high-heeled, steel-toed boots or put a bit of lace on your chain mail. But I suppose you could alter the Lim to Secret: Gender. I wouldn't make it a Psych Lim, since the repercussions for revelation are social.

Keith "It's a dwarf thing; you wouldn't understand ;)" Curtis

[Curufea]

There may be dwarf social limitations about being a city dwarf, as well. They don't get the respect that mine dwarfs do.

On a side note - at least in this setting no one will be (or should be) playing an elf :)

[gojira]

This could be a fun little project.

A membership in a guild gives you a license to do whatever it is you do. Operating freelance is often a bad idea. Probably a 1 point perk for most members.

Speaking of Soul Music, don't forget the Musician's guild.

There does seem to be a lot of economic activity that isn't regulated, however. The tooth-fairies, for example, and mediums (Ms. Cake!). Inns, Pubs, and retailing (musical instruments). The clergy and the Unseen University aren't guilds per se, but the often get treated like one.

Coppers have have a couple of disadvantages: Watched by the Watch, Reputation (Copper, Incompetent Nobody), Distinctive Feature (Uniform). Plus probably PS: Police Procedure. (Yes, everyone has this. Even Nobby. He knows what procedure is, he just does the opposite.) After that, everything seems variable, although all members of the Watch seem to have at least one weapon skill of some sort.

[Curufea]

Vimes has one thing no other character in Discworld has - the respect of Vetinari.

Rincewind - 8d6 Unluck, 3d6 Luck, Physlim: cannot learn magic, Universal Translator - Only to say "help!" or to understand Orangutan (-2), Watched: Death

Witches: Esk (possible a female wizard), Granny (Esmerelda) Weatherwax, Nanny (Gytha) Ogg, Magrat Garlick, Agnes X. Nitt, Black Aliss

I think Headology should actually be the equivalent of a college of magic. The magic spells should be based on presence or ego.

Actually, there is probably already a Discworld wiki. Let's see....
http://wiki.lspace.org/index.php/Main_Page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld
http://www.molcon.f2s.com/discworld/wiki/

[Lucius]

I believe they use the male pronoun solely, at least in Morporkian. My feeling has always been the assumption is that every dwarf is male. No one gets the heebie-jeebies if a dwarf announces his own male gender, but it is considered rude to announce your female gender, even if you are not wearing high-heeled, steel-toed boots or put a bit of lace on your chain mail. But I suppose you could alter the Lim to Secret: Gender. I wouldn't make it a Psych Lim, since the repercussions for revelation are social.

Keith "It's a dwarf thing; you wouldn't understand ;)" Curtis

Languages which fail to make a pronoun distinction between male and female are not unknown even among Humans. Yes, they use the male pronoun in Morporkian; that's because they all look male (beards, you know) to a Human and Humans would refer to them as "he." And I'd bet you that a Dwarf who doesn't speak Morporkian (or any Human language) very well yet will frequently refer to female Humans as "he" too.

Dwarves, especially city dwelling Dwarves, are starting to pick up Human ideas, including the idea of dividing people by gender, and some of them identify as female. But can we be certain all Dwarves who take to being "shes" are necessarily what a Human would consider biologically female?

But in so far as it IS linked to actual physical sex, realize that when a Dwarf is a "he" then "he" is not somehow announcing that "he" is male; it's just that Dwarves think of that pronoun as including Dwarves as well as males. Similarly, there is nothing problematic in a Dwarf emulating stereotypical "male" behavior since most "male" things to do in Human society are acceptable things for Dwarves to do. But if a Dwarf were to somehow make a POINT about being male - which would be a harder thing to do than announcing one's femaleness, but I can imagine ways it could be done - it would probably be seen as being just as "rude" and embarrassing, since the traditional Dwarf view is that this is "Too Much Information."

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary has a Y chromosome and a Y-not chromosome and doesn't care who knows it.

[keithcurtis]

But if a Dwarf were to somehow make a POINT about being male - which would be a harder thing to do that announcing one's femaleness, but I can imagine ways it could be done - it would probably be seen as being just as "rude" and embarrassing, since the traditional Dwarf view is that this is "Too Much Information."

I suspect a lot of what you say is a matter of interpretation, and thus as valid as any other point of view. I just happen to interpret it a bit differently.
I agree that making a point of one's gender (not necessarily sex, but sexual identity) is considered rude to dwarfs.
I also maintain however, that the only dwarf we have seen to make a point of his maleness is not shunned. This dwarf would be Casanunda, the Disc's greatest lover.

Keith "Admittedly, we have never seen him in the company of other dwarfs" Curtis

[keithcurtis]

Vimes has one thing no other character in Discworld has - the respect of Vetinari.He also apparently has one of the most far reaching reputations on the Disc.


Rincewind - 8d6 Unluck, 3d6 Luck, Physlim: cannot learn magic, Universal Translator - Only to say "help!" or to understand Orangutan (-2), Watched: DeathHe should also have a contact of some kind to represent the patronage of the Lady. I'd raise that Luck to 8d6, only in life-threatening situations, possibly linked to PS: Running. :)


Witches: Esk (possible a female wizard), Granny (Esmerelda) Weatherwax, Nanny (Gytha) Ogg, Magrat Garlick, Agnes X. Nitt, Black AlissDont forget Tiffany Aching, she has three books of her own. Poor Esk is promptly forgotten.


I think Headology should actually be the equivalent of a college of magic. The magic spells should be based on presence or ego.That would probably be a good way to treat it mechanically. I wouldn't call it magic though. Probably Super Skills.

More thoughts:

Other races which might be playable are gnomes, gargoyles, freed golems and assorted one-shots like the elemental at the rim or a very minor god such as Bileous.

Barbarian is a highly skilled class on Discworld. At a certain point, physical and mental characteristics seem to matter very little.

Vampires and Werewolves seem to have the ability to pass their curse on through biting, but it's apparently far more common to just pass them along through family lines. Although it could be a template, it's more of a race.

Keith "fun thread--thanks, Michael" Curtis

[L. Marcus]

. . . I liked the GURPS Discworld Disad Barbarian Hero. Remember Conina? All she ever wanted out of life was a small salon of her own, but her genes made her go out in the world and steal stuff heroically.

[Curufea]

Hero is definitely an occupation on the Discworld.

And yeah - Headology should be a mix of various things. Psionics, psychology, manipulation, skills, contact, perks, talents and spells.

[L. Marcus]

And Boffo. Don't forget Boffo.

[Outsider]

Who wants to take a stab at writing up The Luggage?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Hero is definitely an occupation on the Discworld.

And yeah - Headology should be a mix of various things. Psionics, psychology, manipulation, skills, contact, perks, talents and spells.

Well, at Granny Weatherwaxes skill level Headology becomes almost a super skill, and would be easy enough to write up that way.

[L. Marcus]

Who wants to take a stab at writing up The Luggage?An Automaton. With lots and lots of Automaton Powers. And virtually impervious to magic -- Damage Reduction 75%, STUN and BODY, Physical and Energy, Magic Special Effects Only (-1) . . .

Oo! Oo! Extradimensional Travel and Teleport! Only To Follow Master (-2?)

[keithcurtis]

An Automaton. With lots and lots of Automaton Powers. And virtually impervious to magic -- Damage Reduction 75%, STUN and BODY, Physical and Energy, Magic Special Effects Only (-1) . . .

Oo! Oo! Extradimensional Travel and Teleport! Only To Follow Master (-2?)
The Extradimensional Travel and Teleport would be UAO as well. Assuming that's what happened to those unfortunate enough to be "eaten".

Oh, and Transform: Dirty Laundry to Clean, Folded Laundry.

Keith "And maybe some PRE for that unnerving, eyeless stare" Curtis

[L. Marcus]

. . . PhysLim: Never Ends Up Anywhere Near Master -- a must-have Limitation for all travel accessories.

[keithcurtis]

How would you write up an Igor?

Keith "marthter ith curiouth" Curtis

[Curufea]

KS: Biology 17- KS: Medicine 15-
Transform - Injured person into healthy person, expendable charges (donated organs)
Regeneration - Delayed - OAF, medical kit.
PsyLim- lisp
PsyLim - must obey mahrster.

[edit]
On a side note, I recently bought the roleplaying game of Gothic Horror - My Life with Master (http://www.halfmeme.com/) which is all about being a minion. It's a narrative game of personal horror in gothic style.

[L. Marcus]

Dont forget Teleport, Only To Respond To Marthters Call (-1). There was one Marthter who did the trick with the spike-lined pit . . . :snicker:

[L. Marcus]

Clerics?

[Curufea]

Dont forget Teleport, Only To Respond To Marthters Call (-1). There was one Marthter who did the trick with the spike-lined pit . . . :snicker:

It should be invisible power effects and "only to be just behind master to suprise him"

[Lucius]

Even as we speak, a thread is running over in Champions about Butler Powers.

Lucius Alexander

The Palindromedary pops up behind Lucius Alexander and says "You rang, Master?"

[Lucius]

I want a Discworld/Glorantha crossover.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary says "Ignore him, he just wants an excuse to sing 'Discworld Duck.'"

[L. Marcus]

Lucius must be killed. :sneaky:

[Curufea]

I want a Discworld/Bas Lag crossover.

It would be so wrong.

[Vondy]

In this case I think success would be based on the players ability to get into the spirit more than any sort of mechanics that might be applied. In fact, mechanics would probably detract from the attempt by formalizing it. Like many stories employing a liberal dose of humor, discworld succeeds more on its peculiar zeitgeist than the specific content/structure of the world itself.

[L. Marcus]

Too right. The books vary a lot over how the world works -- like magic, what the History Monks actually do, Death . . . I get the feeling that a rules-light system -- like Fudge -- would work much better than Hero at describing Discworld. That and having players and a GM with the right mindset.

But none the less -- Hero builds are fun in and of themselves. :)

[keithcurtis]

Thinking about it, Nac Mac Feegle would be expensive. They have kick-butt physical characteristics, super speed, invisibility (functionally), buckets of fighting skills, , reduced size, X-Dimensional travel, and the simultaneous perk of wealth and Pysch Lim: must steal, when not fighting or drinking.

Keith "There can be only only one t'ousand!" Curtis

[keithcurtis]

There aren't that many guilds, or at least major guilds. From what I remember there is just a guild for each major trade -
Bakers, Carpenters, Weavers, Assassins, Thieves, Beggars, Ladies of Negotiable Affection.


Speaking of Soul Music, don't forget the Musician's guild.
The clergy and the Unseen University aren't guilds per se, but the often get treated like one.Actually, there are tons of guilds. While reading a couple of the novels I came across several not mentioned already, so I turned to the font of all knowledge of pop culture: Wikipedia.

Guilds of Ankh-Morpork (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilds_of_Ankh-Morpork)

Keith "VINI VIDI VETINARI" Curtis

[L. Marcus]

Ad Hoc Possum Videre Domum Tuum

Quanti Canicula Ille Im Fenestram

Dico Dico Dico

Nunc Ed Videre, Nunc Ne Cideres

Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre . . .

[keithcurtis]

And the ever popular, "FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC"

Keith "Kidby's Vimes does bear a striking resemblance..." Curtis

[Lucius]

I recognize a few of these - "Now you see it, now you don't" and "No killing without pay" - but not all. Anyone want to provide translations?

I have GOT to go get all of the Discworld novels some day.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary reveals that Lucius is working on some x-rated fan fiction involving Esmeralda Weatherwax...

[AmadanNaBriona]

I recognize a few of these - "Now you see it, now you don't" and "No killing without pay" - but not all. Anyone want to provide translations?

I have GOT to go get all of the Discworld novels some day.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary reveals that Lucius is working on some x-rated fan fiction involving Esmeralda Weatherwax...


And the ever popular, "FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC"

Keith "Kidby's Vimes does bear a striking resemblance..." Curtis

"Make my day, Punk"

[Lucius]

Keith "VINI VIDI VETINARI" Curtis\

I came, I saw, I'm an old warhorse?

Lucius Alexander

The Palindromedary thanks the Fool for making our day, and cries; "Carpe DM!" (seize the dungeon master.)

[Curufea]

The coats of arms are illustrated on the Map of Ankh-Morpork if you have that.

[Vondy]

The coats of arms are illustrated on the Map of Ankh-Morpork if you have that.

What map? :straight:

[Curufea]

This one-
http://www.dymocks.com.au/ProductDetails/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0552141615
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Streets-Ankh-Morpork-Discworld-University/dp/0552141615

[keithcurtis]

I recognize a few of these - "Now you see it, now you don't" and "No killing without pay" - but not all. Anyone want to provide translations?

The ones in the Guilds link I gave above come with translations.

Keith "snipped the rather disturbing remainder of the quoted post" Curtis

[Basil]

Witches: Esk (possible a female wizard), Granny (Esmerelda) Weatherwax, Nanny (Gytha) Ogg, Magrat Garlick, Agnes X. Nitt, Black Aliss


Dont forget Tiffany Aching, she has three books of her own. Poor Esk is promptly forgotten.

There's also the one described as "having a detached retina in her second sight," the one Granny and Esk run into in "the big city" who specializes in virility potions, and the voodoo-ish one in the swamp. Sorry, I can't remember the names, and it's too late to go searching through my Discworld books to find the names.

["V"]

There's also the one described as "having a detached retina in her second sight," the one Granny and Esk run into in "the big city" who specializes in virility potions, and the voodoo-ish one in the swamp. Sorry, I can't remember the names, and it's too late to go searching through my Discworld books to find the names.

1. Old Mother Dismass
2. Hilta Goatfounder I think
3. Mrs Googol

[keithcurtis]

There are tons of witches. From Wikipedia:

1 The Lancre Coven
1.1 Esmeralda Weatherwax
1.2 Gytha Ogg
1.3 Magrat Garlick
1.4 Agnes Nitt

2 Tiffany Aching

3 Other Witches
3.1 Sarah 'Granny' Aching
3.2 Gammer Beavis
3.3 Gwinifer "Old Mother" Blackcap
3.4 Aliss Demurrage
3.5 Old Mother Dismass
3.6 Mrs Letice Earwig
3.7 Hilta Goatfounder
3.8 Erzulie Gogol
3.9 Petulia Gristle
3.10 Ammeline 'Goodie' Hamstring
3.11 Annagramma Hawkin
3.12 Dimmity Hubbub
3.13 Miss Level
3.14 Miss Tick
3.15 Diamanda Tockley
3.16 Eumenides Treason
3.17 Lucy Warbeck
3.18 Alison Weatherwax

4 Fairy godmothers
4.1 Desiderata Hollow
4.2 Lily Weatherwax

Keith "Wikipedia - Source of all pop culture knowledge" Curtis

["V"]

That's the definitive list. I was just too lazy to go look it up.

\ "Fetch me another soda while your at it, Keith."/

(Shudders at strange parallel world style deja vu)

[keithcurtis]

You're just traveling down the other trouser leg of time...

Keith "assuming mutual definition of soda, again" Curtis

[OddHat]

There are tons of witches. From Wikipedia:

1 The Lancre Coven
1.1 Esmeralda Weatherwax
1.2 Gytha Ogg
1.3 Magrat Garlick
1.4 Agnes Nitt

2 Tiffany Aching

3 Other Witches
3.1 Sarah 'Granny' Aching
3.2 Gammer Beavis
3.3 Gwinifer "Old Mother" Blackcap
3.4 Aliss Demurrage
3.5 Old Mother Dismass
3.6 Mrs Letice Earwig
3.7 Hilta Goatfounder
3.8 Erzulie Gogol
3.9 Petulia Gristle
3.10 Ammeline 'Goodie' Hamstring
3.11 Annagramma Hawkin
3.12 Dimmity Hubbub
3.13 Miss Level
3.14 Miss Tick
3.15 Diamanda Tockley
3.16 Eumenides Treason
3.17 Lucy Warbeck
3.18 Alison Weatherwax

4 Fairy godmothers
4.1 Desiderata Hollow
4.2 Lily Weatherwax

Keith "Wikipedia - Source of all pop culture knowledge" Curtis

Mrs. Cake deserves at least an honorary mention. She may not have the magic, but she has the Respect, and that's what's important.

[keithcurtis]

Respect? Or fear?


'Mrs Cake? What's a Mrs Cake?'
'You have ... ghastly Things from the Dungeon Dimensions and things, yes? Terrible hazards of your ungodly profession?' said the Chief Priest.
'Yes.'
'We have someone called Mrs Cake.'

Keith "We need to see more of Chief Priest Ridcully" Curtis

[Curufea]

Mrs Cake would be damn difficult to roleplay. You'd have to second guess their questions.

[L. Marcus]

". . . A medium, bordering on small."

[L. Marcus]

"Chap with a whip got as far as the falling stones last week."